Zone1 If racism is the cause for poverty among blacks, why are 75% of blacks NOT poor?

[pknopp]

You address racism by being realistic about it. It's here to stay.

I see no reason for that.

 

[Woodznutz]

I do recall a black poster on this forum who, while lambasting whites as feeling superior to blacks, went on and on about how blacks are genetically superior.

British women love them for their manliness, compared to the unmanliness of English men.

 

[Woodznutz]

I see no reason for that.

Failure to assimilate (not integrate) is the major cause of black failure.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Silly labelling doesn't impress me.

So, stop being the one doing it all because you lack the capability to discuss the issue in any way other than as a conditioned response.

 

[pknopp]

So, stop being the one doing it all because you lack the capability to discuss the issue in any way other than as a conditioned response.

My response it based upon my experiences and what I see. "Us" and "Them" is not what I see.

 

[Baron Von Murderpaws]

From what I've seen in MY life............blacks learned how to use the laws for thier benefit, just like the politicians have done.

Free rent, free food, free housing, free, free, free, free, free................and they've learned how to turn this "FREE" stuff into CASH.
Thats why they can afford $500 weaves, $300 nails, $1200 designer outfits, $2000 Nikes, $75,000 SUV's, gold teeth, and gold jewelry.

The only "work" they do, is turning MY tax dollars I've had to WORK FOR, they get for FREE into CASH. And when they run out, they just whine, cry, and throw race riots to get more!!

 

[Oddball]

NOBODY has declared that racists do not exist.

What I notice is that no leftist is willing to answer the question, even though I made it the title of the thread, and defaults to “racists still exist”. So I ask again:

If racism is the cause of blacks living in poverty, then why are 75% of blacks NOT in poverty?

Deflecting to demands to “condemn racists” or accusations that I said racism doesn’t exist (I KNOW bigots exist….I’ve experienced plenty of them myself) will not work.

Answer the question.

And I have an additional request: SHOW YOUR MATH.

Nobody will be able to do either.

 

[Sixties Fan]

I’ve asked the above question repeatedly of the black activists who insist on blaming racism for the problems in the poor, black inner-city areas - and it’s always ignored, so I decided to make the question a separate thread.

Q: If racism is the cause of poverty among blacks, then why are the majority of blacks NOT in poverty?

A: Because they made the right decisions, despite perhaps some personal experiences with racism, and completed high school (or ideally, went beyond that), did not have children before they could afford them, and had the ability, discipline and motivation to get jobs and move up in them.

This is how ALL members of minorities, who also have had personal experiences with bigotry, move out of poverty and make a success of their lives.

Defend or refute the above.

It does not happen only to Blacks, Native First Nation, Hispanics which are minorities.

It is racism which prompts all of that. History in this country tells how Europeans have viewed all who are not like them. Discrimination and attacks on these minorities is continuous. Because we do not hear about all of the cases in the news, it does not mean that it is not happening and that "somehow" all within those minorities can rise above it.

It does not happen in the US, in Brazil, and in many other countries, where Blacks and indigenous people have always had it bad from the Europeans who invaded and then migrated in large numbers.

Jews are not a race, as you brought up your experience. They are attacked because of their religion, because of what Christianity has been spreading about them for 2000 years. And later Islam.

I do not have to tell Jewish history all over the world to make clear that whenever Jews do well, Judeophobia/Antisemitism finds its way and continuously destroy what their lives, having to move and start again, for those who survived.


Here is the poverty rate in the US:

Poverty Rate by Race/Ethnicity | KFF

disparity, Disparities

www.kff.org

One thing that I have not seen happen to any other minority in the US is what happened to these people in 1920. One may have heard about it:





As said by others, Blacks are discriminated in purchase, rent, jobs, neighborhoods, success, etc, etc

Blacks are not the only ones to get "Free" things from the government. There are plenty of Whites who receive it. Actually, mostly whites:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/02/16/the-biggest-beneficiaries-of-the-government-safety-net-working-class-whites/

[In other words, Whites, who make the majority of the population in the US, are the biggest beneficiaries from the government. Clearly many of them have as many problems getting ahead, and changing their lives, as anybody else in the country.]

[ This is from 2012 but it still applies ]

Distribution of Tax Expenditure Benefits Differs Greatly, and Is Much Less Favorable to the Middle Class and Low-Incomes Families​

The distribution of entitlement benefits stands in sharp contrast to the distribution of benefits for tax expenditures, which former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan has called “tax entitlements.” The Tax Policy Center finds that under current tax policy:a

• The top fifth of the population receives 66 percent of tax-expenditure benefits (compared to 10 percent of entitlement benefits).
• The middle 60 percent of the population receives a little over 31 percent of tax-expenditure benefits (compared to 58 percent of entitlement benefits).
• The bottom fifth receives just 2.8 percent of tax-expenditure benefits (compared to 32 percent of entitlement benefits).b
• The top 1 percent of the population receives 23.9 percent of tax-expenditure benefits — more than eight times as much as the bottom fifth of the population, and nearly as much as the middle 60 percent of the population.

Contrary to "Entitlement Society" Rhetoric, Over Nine-Tenths of Entitlement Benefits Go to Elderly, Disabled, or Working Households | Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

Some conservative critics of federal social programs, including leading presidential candidates, are sounding an alarm that the United States is rapidly becoming an “entitlement society” in which...

www.cbpp.org

 

[Ralph Norton]

What form would such condemnation take?

A stern "bad white person" and a hit on the nose with a rolled up newspaper should do it.

 

[Lisa558]

It does not happen only to Blacks, Native First Nation, Hispanics which are minorities.

It is racism which prompts all of that. History in this country tells how Europeans have viewed all who are not like them. Discrimination and attacks on these minorities is continuous. Because we do not hear about all of the cases in the news, it does not mean that it is not happening and that "somehow" all within those minorities can rise above it.

It does not happen in the US, in Brazil, and in many other countries, where Blacks and indigenous people have always had it bad from the Europeans who invaded and then migrated in large numbers.

Jews are not a race, as you brought up your experience. They are attacked because of their religion, because of what Christianity has been spreading about them for 2000 years. And later Islam.

I do not have to tell Jewish history all over the world to make clear that whenever Jews do well, Judeophobia/Antisemitism finds its way and continuously destroy what their lives, having to move and start again, for those who survived.


Here is the poverty rate in the US:

Poverty Rate by Race/Ethnicity | KFF

disparity, Disparities

www.kff.org

One thing that I have not seen happen to any other minority in the US is what happened to these people in 1920. One may have heard about it:





As said by others, Blacks are discriminated in purchase, rent, jobs, neighborhoods, success, etc, etc

Blacks are not the only ones to get "Free" things from the government. There are plenty of Whites who receive it. Actually, mostly whites:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/02/16/the-biggest-beneficiaries-of-the-government-safety-net-working-class-whites/

[In other words, Whites, who make the majority of the population in the US, are the biggest beneficiaries from the government. Clearly many of them have as many problems getting ahead, and changing their lives, as anybody else in the country.]

[ This is from 2012 but it still applies ]

Distribution of Tax Expenditure Benefits Differs Greatly, and Is Much Less Favorable to the Middle Class and Low-Incomes Families​

The distribution of entitlement benefits stands in sharp contrast to the distribution of benefits for tax expenditures, which former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan has called “tax entitlements.” The Tax Policy Center finds that under current tax policy:a

• The top fifth of the population receives 66 percent of tax-expenditure benefits (compared to 10 percent of entitlement benefits).
• The middle 60 percent of the population receives a little over 31 percent of tax-expenditure benefits (compared to 58 percent of entitlement benefits).
• The bottom fifth receives just 2.8 percent of tax-expenditure benefits (compared to 32 percent of entitlement benefits).b
• The top 1 percent of the population receives 23.9 percent of tax-expenditure benefits — more than eight times as much as the bottom fifth of the population, and nearly as much as the middle 60 percent of the population.

Contrary to "Entitlement Society" Rhetoric, Over Nine-Tenths of Entitlement Benefits Go to Elderly, Disabled, or Working Households | Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

Some conservative critics of federal social programs, including leading presidential candidates, are sounding an alarm that the United States is rapidly becoming an “entitlement society” in which...

www.cbpp.org

A few points:

1) Your video about what happened in 1920, more than 100 years ago, did not work (I was thinking the Tulsa Massacre, but that was 1921), but in any event, that was in the past.

2) No one said blacks are the only ones suffering from bigotry. And your point that Jews aren’t subjected to racism but Instead antisemitism, is splitting hairs. They are still subject to prejudice, sometimes quite extreme.

3) Your litany of stats about how blacks are not doing as well is NOT the topic. We know they aren’t doing as well (as a group).

4) You, like all leftists, continue to insist that the reason there is a black underclass still in poverty Is due to racism doesn’t make it true. That’s an opinion, based on the fact that the majority of blacks are not in poverty.

5) You, along with other liberals, srill refuse to answer the question: if racism is the cause of black poverty, then why are the majority of blacks NOT in poverty?


You can’t answer because the answer tells you that other factors are in play.

 

[Sixties Fan]

A few points:

1) Your video about what happened in 1920, more than 100 years ago, did not work (I was thinking the Tulsa Massacre, but that was 1921), but in any event, that was in the past.

2) No one said blacks are the only ones suffering from bigotry. And your point that Jews aren’t subjected to racism but Instead antisemitism, is splitting hairs. They are still subject to prejudice, sometimes quite extreme.

3) Your litany of stats about how blacks are not doing as well is NOT the topic. We know they aren’t doing as well (as a group).

4) You, like all leftists, continue to insist that the reason there is a black underclass still in poverty Is due to racism doesn’t make it true. That’s an opinion, based on the fact that the majority of blacks are not in poverty.

5) You, along with other liberals, srill refuse to answer the question: if racism is the cause of black poverty, then why are the majority of blacks NOT in poverty?


You can’t answer because the answer tells you that other factors are in play.

Let us look at the number of Rich blacks then:

There are 614 billionaires in the United States, and only 7 of them are Black

The lack of diversity in the three comma club highlights the growing wealth gap between Black and white Americans.

www.businessinsider.com

It is really hard to understand what you are trying to get to. First Nation People experience the same discrimination in crime, jobs, opportunities, etc.

Voter suppression and gerrymandering always has a huge effect in how the black people in the US are represented, and what chances they have in changing anything in those districts, or States.

What exactly do you consider poor? Making how much money? Lower middle classs, how many of them? Middle class?

It is not a matter of being right or left. It is the facts of how blacks have always been disproportionally affected by White laws against them, from slavery, to Jim Crow, to their voting rights.


So, what other factors have you discovered are in play from your research? Please share the sources.

 

[Lisa558]

Let us look at the number of Rich blacks then:

There are 614 billionaires in the United States, and only 7 of them are Black

The lack of diversity in the three comma club highlights the growing wealth gap between Black and white Americans.

www.businessinsider.com

It is really hard to understand what you are trying to get to. First Nation People experience the same discrimination in crime, jobs, opportunities, etc.

Voter suppression and gerrymandering always has a huge effect in how the black people in the US are represented, and what chances they have in changing anything in those districts, or States.

What exactly do you consider poor? Making how much money? Lower middle classs, how many of them? Middle class?

It is not a matter of being right or left. It is the facts of how blacks have always been disproportionally affected by White laws against them, from slavery, to Jim Crow, to their voting rights.


So, what other factors have you discovered are in play from your research? Please search the sources.

You are doing that leftist thing - putting your opponent on the defensive by giving out homework assignments and ignoring the question.

Answer the question: why are most blacks working class or up (as are most whites) if racism is why impoverished blacks are in poverty?

 

[Foxfyre]

I’ve asked the above question repeatedly of the black activists who insist on blaming racism for the problems in the poor, black inner-city areas - and it’s always ignored, so I decided to make the question a separate thread.

Q: If racism is the cause of poverty among blacks, then why are the majority of blacks NOT in poverty?

A: Because they made the right decisions, despite perhaps some personal experiences with racism, and completed high school (or ideally, went beyond that), did not have children before they could afford them, and had the ability, discipline and motivation to get jobs and move up in them.

This is how ALL members of minorities, who also have had personal experiences with bigotry, move out of poverty and make a success of their lives.

Defend or refute the above.

The thing is, I agree that most poverty among black people IS due to racism but the kind of racism that forces them to see themselves as black victims, that as Kanye (or Ye) West last night described as stripping them of everything that makes them individual human beings and assigns them to nothing but a skin color. It is a racism that teaches them they are victims of white privilege, of inherent racism that is prevalent in all white people (CRT), that they can't achieve, can't aspire, can't become better versions of themselves because '******' won't allow it.

And their only hope for any betterment of their situation is to vote for Democrats who never ever seem to get around to improving the black people's lot in life.

 

[Lisa558]

The thing is, I agree that most poverty among black people IS due to racism but the kind of racism that forces them to see themselves as black victims, that as Kanye (or Ye) West last night described as stripping them of everything that makes them individual human beings and assigns them to nothing but a skin color. It is a racism that teaches them they are victims of white privilege, of inherent racism that is prevalent in all white people (CRT), that they can't achieve, can't aspire, can't become better versions of themselves because '******' won't allow it.

And their only hope for any betterment of their situation is to vote for Democrats who never ever seem to get around to improving the black people's lot in life.

That is an excellent point. Sort of like the bigotry of low expectations.

At the Loudoun School Board meeting, a black father stood up and in an outrage said he does NOT want his son being taught he’s a victim of whites, and oppressed, and whatever. He wants his son knowing he is growing up where opportunities exist for everyone.

And the reason Democrats never get around to improving blacks’ lot in life is because they don’t want to. Self-supporting, successful blacks who take responsibility for themselves are Dems’ enemies. It’s why they call them Uncle Tom’s and white supremacists with black skin.

 

[Foxfyre]

That is an excellent point. Sort of like the bigotry of low expectations.

At the Loudoun School Board meeting, a black father stood up and in an outrage said he does NOT want his son being taught he’s a victim of whites, and oppressed, and whatever. He wants his son knowing he is growing up where opportunities exist for everyone.

And the reason Democrats need get around to improving blacks’ lot in life is because they don’t want to. Self-supporting, successful blacks who take responsibility for themselves are Dems’ enemies. It’s why they call them Uncle Tom’s and white supremacists with black skin.

I can't improve on your evaluation.

 

[Sixties Fan]

You are doing that leftist thing - putting your opponent in the defensive and giving out homework assignments and ignoring the question.

Answer the question: why are most blacks working class or up (as are most whites) if racism is why impoverished blacks are in poverty?

Can we start by looking at the number in each population?

---------------
What is the race breakdown of the US population?


Table

Population
White alone, percent	 75.8%
Black or African American alone, percent(a)	 13.6%
American Indian and Alaska Native alone, percent(a)	 1.3%
Asian alone, percent(a)	 6.1%

-------------
[Out of 13.6% of Blacks]

Both poverty and income strongly correlate with race in the United States. Among all racial groups, Black Americans are second most likely to experience poverty, with 21% living below the poverty threshold, following Native Americans at 25%. Black Americans in particular have only ten cents for every dollar in wealth that white families have.


[Out of 75.8% of Whites,]

Poverty rate in the United States by ethnic group 2021
In 2021, 19.5 percent of Black people living in the United States were living below the poverty line. This is compared to 8.2 percent of White people, and 8.1 percent of Asian people.Sep 30, 2022
https://www.statista.com/statistics/200476/us-poverty-rate-by-ethnic-group/

U.S. poverty rate, by ethnicity 2021 - Statista​

https://www.statista.com/statistics/200476/us-poverty-rate-by-ethnic-group/
-------------------------------------
[Can we understand that there is a much higher rate of poverty and non ability to rise above it on the Black sector, which is smaller, than in the White one which is much higher?]


Black Americans make up 12 percent of the middle class and 13 percent of the population.Oct 30, 2020

The middle class is already racially diverse

Christopher Pulliam, Richard Reeves, and Ariel Gelrud Shiro break down the racial demographics of the middle class.

www.brookings.edu

----------------------------

How many of them can get above the middle class? Instead of ending up below the poverty line which is what studies have found out?

 

[Lisa558]

Can we start by looking at the number in each population?

---------------
What is the race breakdown of the US population?


Table

Population
White alone, percent	 75.8%
Black or African American alone, percent(a)	 13.6%
American Indian and Alaska Native alone, percent(a)	 1.3%
Asian alone, percent(a)	 6.1%

-------------
[Out of 13.6% of Blacks]

Both poverty and income strongly correlate with race in the United States. Among all racial groups, Black Americans are second most likely to experience poverty, with 21% living below the poverty threshold, following Native Americans at 25%. Black Americans in particular have only ten cents for every dollar in wealth that white families have.


[Out of 75.8% of Whites,]

Poverty rate in the United States by ethnic group 2021
In 2021, 19.5 percent of Black people living in the United States were living below the poverty line. This is compared to 8.2 percent of White people, and 8.1 percent of Asian people.Sep 30, 2022
U.S. poverty rate, by ethnicity 2021 | Statista

U.S. poverty rate, by ethnicity 2021 - Statista​

U.S. poverty rate, by ethnicity 2021 | Statista
-------------------------------------
[Can we understand that there is a much higher rate of poverty and non ability to rise above it on the Black sector, which is smaller, than in the White one which is much higher?]


Black Americans make up 12 percent of the middle class and 13 percent of the population.Oct 30, 2020

The middle class is already racially diverse

Christopher Pulliam, Richard Reeves, and Ariel Gelrud Shiro break down the racial demographics of the middle class.

www.brookings.edu

----------------------------

How many of them can get above the middle class? Instead of ending up below the poverty line which is what studies have found out?

We are talking about why blacks are in poverty, and leftists like you blame racism. Only 20% are in poverty. Too high, of course, but not due to racism. Otherwise, how do you explain that most blacks are not in poverty?

 

[Sixties Fan]

That is an excellent point. Sort of like the bigotry of low expectations.

At the Loudoun School Board meeting, a black father stood up and in an outrage said he does NOT want his son being taught he’s a victim of whites, and oppressed, and whatever. He wants his son knowing he is growing up where opportunities exist for everyone.

And the reason Democrats never get around to improving blacks’ lot in life is because they don’t want to. Self-supporting, successful blacks who take responsibility for themselves are Dems’ enemies. It’s why they call them Uncle Tom’s and white supremacists with black skin.

[This post does not explain the low number of 4% of Blacks who vote Republicans]

I suggest that African American Republicans identify with the GOP to rupture two dominant narratives: (a) that African Americans affiliate politically based exclusively on the partisan affiliations of the previous familial generation; (b) and that the Democratic Party is the political home of African Americans.

Not sell outs, Uncle Tom's, or Aunt Jemima's: African American Republicans and their reasons for affliating with the GOP

Previous work on identification informed us that people desire to join groups that are perceived favorably by others and that enhance a person’s self esteem (Tajfel & Turner, 1986). However for one group, African American Republicans, this is not the case. African American Republicans often are...

docs.lib.purdue.edu

 

[Sixties Fan]

We are talking about why blacks are in poverty, and leftists like you blame racism. Only 20% are in poverty. Too high, of course, but not due to racism. Otherwise, how do you explain that most blacks are not in poverty?

As I pointed out, there is only 13% of blacks in the country. And the number of Blacks in poverty, compared to the number of the White population is truly much higher because of how many Whites there are in the US.

It has always been due to racism, one understands that or not.

Voter suppression laws is another racist thing being aimed at blacks, mainly. It is not being done by the Democrats or Independents.

 

[Lisa558]

This is a recap of how leftists are responding to the premise:

Premise: Blacks living below poverty are not poor due to racism, because otherwise how do you explain why the majority of blacks are not poor?

Lib Answer: Here are stats showing that blacks are poorer than whites.

Response: We know they’re poorer than whites, but that doesn’t mean racism is the cause. There are a lot of other factors: a shameful out-of-wedlock rate, higher drop out rate of high school, higher crime rate, and so forth.

Lib Answer: But here’s the proof: blacks don’t have as much wealth.

Response: That doesn’t mean racism. That means that their lower educational attainment, the children they have they can’t afford, their higher spending levels on material things (cars, jewelry, expensive makeup, designer clothes, etc) relative to their earnings means they aren’t saving at the rates whites do, so they have less wealth.

All these excuses that leftists are making for the lower achievement levels, on a average, of blacks - instead of showing them how their own choices and behavior are causing their problems - is keeping blacks down.