If God doesn't exist...

[zaangalewa]

... We do not know what fundamental conditions would rule out any possibility of any life. ...

The condition for life are not unknowable: Energy is such a condition. Space is such a condition. Time too. Even the ability to write informations in every kind of energy, radiation and material is such a condition. Water is also such a condition. No one has only a little idea about how life could exist without water and the ability of water to transport energy and material ... And life needs also always a good balance between all extremes. We are lucky that the universe all around and within the solar system is a little boring - or with other words: stable enough so we are able to be here. ... and so on, and so on.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Is it not a miracle once it can be explained. The ants odds were 1 million to one. Lucky day.

It seems to me that being lucky meets the same criteria as being miraculous don't you think?

*****CHUCKLE*****

Love Queen! Big fan!

Freddy was gay you know. I'm sure you liking him comforts him in hell for all eternity

Of course I know.
I found it interesting that he belonged to the Zoroastrianism religion.
Do you know there is a Zoroastrianism dating society.....and they believe in leaving the bodies of their dead for the vultures....to turn them back into nature?


I have idea where he wound up.
Nor why you'd wish that on him.

I don't wish it on him nor do I believe he's in hell. I was mocking people who believe he's in hell because he was gay and now to boot he wasn't a Christian? Oh he's roasting for sure.

And that dude earlier asked me what's the harm in jesus' message.

Well if Jesus didn't say gays and non Christians are going to hell, why do so many Christians believe it?

Don't get mad at us your religion stinks.

And I don't tell people in person their God isn't real. That would be rude. That's what the Internet's for.

If Isaak Newton only had the internet or met an atheist

I wonder if you could find any of my posts stating any of those things you'er pretending I've said.

 

[PoliticalChic]

It just means we don't know yet.

So it was a miracle...

"A highly improbable or extraordinary event, development, or accomplishment that brings very welcome consequences."
Oxford Dictionary

...Or are you saying it doesn't meet that definition?

And just because we don't know doesn't make it a miracle.

I do believe it does.

If an ant walks out onto a busy 4 Lane road and makes it across is that a miracle?

What part of the definition I've provided doesn't this example meet?

Let's try it this way. Start from the beginning. You say a God kicked started the universe. OK, that seems like a confident definitive statement as if it's an unequivocal face.

Where did I state that?

So certainly you have at least one bit of evidence this God exists, right?

I observe God and his/her grand works everyday.

You surviving something is no miracle. You're just the smartest animal on this one planet and still very primitive.

Again... What part of the definition I've provided doesn't this example meet?

The question is there a God will never go away but hopefully the lies that he visited will one day fade

What lies would those be?



Before you criticize my beliefs any further perhaps you should read the rest of the thread.

*****CHUCKLE*****

I thought a miracle was a God intervention. My bad.

This, from a Harper's essay, by a physicist.


1. " …according to various calculations, if the values of some of the fundamental parameters of our universe were a little larger or a little smaller, life could not have arisen.

2. For example, if the nuclear force were a few percentage points stronger than it actually is, then all the hydrogen atoms in the infant universe would have fused with other hydrogen atoms to make helium, and there would be no hydrogen left. No hydrogen means no water.
Although we are far from certain about what conditions are necessary for life, most biologists believe that water is necessary.

4. On the other hand, if the nuclear force were substantially weaker than what it actually is, then the complex atoms needed for biology could not hold together.

5. As another example, if the relationship between the strengths of the gravitational force and the electromagnetic force were not close to what it is, then the cosmos would not harbor any stars that explode and spew out life-supporting chemical elements into space or any other stars that form planets. Both kinds of stars are required for the emergence of life.

6. The strengths of the basic forces and certain other fundamental parameters in our universe appear to be “fine-tuned” to allow the existence of life. The recognition of this fine tuning led British physicist Brandon Carter to articulate what he called the anthropic principle, which states that the universe must have the parameters it does because we are here to observe it. Actually, the word anthropic, from the Greek for “man,” is a misnomer: if these fundamental parameters were much different from what they are, it is not only human beings who would not exist. No life of any kind would exist."
The Accidental Universe | Harper's Magazine

Miracle .....or coincidence?

Maybe less miracle and less coincidence but more a kind of very hard fact. If I remember well then all natural constants have to be very very very exact for living structures - in one case it are about 40 digits. So even if the speculation about a Multiversum would be correct: In case we would be able to communicate with other universes then in only less than 1 of 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 cases we would be able to find life within a universe of this multiverse. And we do not know anything about wether life is existing in more than one case in our own universe too.

Life in our universe is probably not rare. What are the 5 most common elements of our universe? They exist everywhere. They exist in our sun, planet, space and in you.

So just because we are too small stupid and far to see life is all over the universe, that doesn't make us special or unique

"Life in our universe is probably not rare."


There couldn't be a more perfect example of the faith you have in your religion, science.

 

[sealybobo]

Life in our universe is probably not rare. What are the 5 most common elements of our universe? They exist everywhere. They exist in our sun, planet, space and in you.

So just because we are too small stupid and far to see life is all over the universe, that doesn't make us special or unique

So they keep telling us sealy; might be true, but at this stage it is nothing more than speculation.

But that's not what they keep telling us. For thousands of years "they" said we were all alone.

But what do we know? We just recently discovered a new planet in our own solar system we didn't know was there.

Like Neil degrass Tyson said, the five main elements are all around us. They are everywhere. And we now believe life once lived on Mars and Venus. In fact Mars rocks might have been what started life on earth. A meteor hit Mars and flung Mars rock into space and bacteria in those rocks is what started life here.

Point is, science sees that life is probably not that rare or uncommon. Science explains your belief that life is rare is ignorant.

But you are right we don't know more than we do know. That doesn't give the God hypothesis any credibility

 

[sealybobo]

It seems to me that being lucky meets the same criteria as being miraculous don't you think?

*****CHUCKLE*****

Love Queen! Big fan!

Freddy was gay you know. I'm sure you liking him comforts him in hell for all eternity

Of course I know.
I found it interesting that he belonged to the Zoroastrianism religion.
Do you know there is a Zoroastrianism dating society.....and they believe in leaving the bodies of their dead for the vultures....to turn them back into nature?


I have idea where he wound up.
Nor why you'd wish that on him.

I don't wish it on him nor do I believe he's in hell. I was mocking people who believe he's in hell because he was gay and now to boot he wasn't a Christian? Oh he's roasting for sure.

And that dude earlier asked me what's the harm in jesus' message.

Well if Jesus didn't say gays and non Christians are going to hell, why do so many Christians believe it?

Don't get mad at us your religion stinks.

And I don't tell people in person their God isn't real. That would be rude. That's what the Internet's for.

If Isaak Newton only had the internet or met an atheist

I wonder if you could find any of my posts stating any of those things you'er pretending I've said.

I didn't say YOU said anything. There's more than just you and I on here.

 

[sealybobo]

So it was a miracle...

"A highly improbable or extraordinary event, development, or accomplishment that brings very welcome consequences."
Oxford Dictionary

...Or are you saying it doesn't meet that definition?

I do believe it does.

What part of the definition I've provided doesn't this example meet?

Where did I state that?

I observe God and his/her grand works everyday.

Again... What part of the definition I've provided doesn't this example meet?

What lies would those be?



Before you criticize my beliefs any further perhaps you should read the rest of the thread.

*****CHUCKLE*****

I thought a miracle was a God intervention. My bad.

This, from a Harper's essay, by a physicist.


1. " …according to various calculations, if the values of some of the fundamental parameters of our universe were a little larger or a little smaller, life could not have arisen.

2. For example, if the nuclear force were a few percentage points stronger than it actually is, then all the hydrogen atoms in the infant universe would have fused with other hydrogen atoms to make helium, and there would be no hydrogen left. No hydrogen means no water.
Although we are far from certain about what conditions are necessary for life, most biologists believe that water is necessary.

4. On the other hand, if the nuclear force were substantially weaker than what it actually is, then the complex atoms needed for biology could not hold together.

5. As another example, if the relationship between the strengths of the gravitational force and the electromagnetic force were not close to what it is, then the cosmos would not harbor any stars that explode and spew out life-supporting chemical elements into space or any other stars that form planets. Both kinds of stars are required for the emergence of life.

6. The strengths of the basic forces and certain other fundamental parameters in our universe appear to be “fine-tuned” to allow the existence of life. The recognition of this fine tuning led British physicist Brandon Carter to articulate what he called the anthropic principle, which states that the universe must have the parameters it does because we are here to observe it. Actually, the word anthropic, from the Greek for “man,” is a misnomer: if these fundamental parameters were much different from what they are, it is not only human beings who would not exist. No life of any kind would exist."
The Accidental Universe | Harper's Magazine

Miracle .....or coincidence?

Maybe less miracle and less coincidence but more a kind of very hard fact. If I remember well then all natural constants have to be very very very exact for living structures - in one case it are about 40 digits. So even if the speculation about a Multiversum would be correct: In case we would be able to communicate with other universes then in only less than 1 of 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 cases we would be able to find life within a universe of this multiverse. And we do not know anything about wether life is existing in more than one case in our own universe too.

Life in our universe is probably not rare. What are the 5 most common elements of our universe? They exist everywhere. They exist in our sun, planet, space and in you.

So just because we are too small stupid and far to see life is all over the universe, that doesn't make us special or unique

"Life in our universe is probably not rare."


There couldn't be a more perfect example of the faith you have in your religion, science.

I base that belief on science. You base your belief on ignorance. You can't see any other life so you assume you are special.

From what we can see, you're probably not.

Notice I use words like probably? Does your religion admit it doesn't know for sure? Hell no. It took 7 days. Your religion has answers for everything, even if they aren't good ones

 

[PoliticalChic]

Love Queen! Big fan!

Freddy was gay you know. I'm sure you liking him comforts him in hell for all eternity

Of course I know.
I found it interesting that he belonged to the Zoroastrianism religion.
Do you know there is a Zoroastrianism dating society.....and they believe in leaving the bodies of their dead for the vultures....to turn them back into nature?


I have idea where he wound up.
Nor why you'd wish that on him.

I don't wish it on him nor do I believe he's in hell. I was mocking people who believe he's in hell because he was gay and now to boot he wasn't a Christian? Oh he's roasting for sure.

And that dude earlier asked me what's the harm in jesus' message.

Well if Jesus didn't say gays and non Christians are going to hell, why do so many Christians believe it?

Don't get mad at us your religion stinks.

And I don't tell people in person their God isn't real. That would be rude. That's what the Internet's for.

If Isaak Newton only had the internet or met an atheist

I wonder if you could find any of my posts stating any of those things you'er pretending I've said.

I didn't say YOU said anything. There's more than just you and I on here.

But the post was addressed to whom?

Apology accepted.

 

[sealybobo]

So it was a miracle...

"A highly improbable or extraordinary event, development, or accomplishment that brings very welcome consequences."
Oxford Dictionary

...Or are you saying it doesn't meet that definition?

I do believe it does.

What part of the definition I've provided doesn't this example meet?

Where did I state that?

I observe God and his/her grand works everyday.

Again... What part of the definition I've provided doesn't this example meet?

What lies would those be?



Before you criticize my beliefs any further perhaps you should read the rest of the thread.

*****CHUCKLE*****

I thought a miracle was a God intervention. My bad.

This, from a Harper's essay, by a physicist.


1. " …according to various calculations, if the values of some of the fundamental parameters of our universe were a little larger or a little smaller, life could not have arisen.

2. For example, if the nuclear force were a few percentage points stronger than it actually is, then all the hydrogen atoms in the infant universe would have fused with other hydrogen atoms to make helium, and there would be no hydrogen left. No hydrogen means no water.
Although we are far from certain about what conditions are necessary for life, most biologists believe that water is necessary.

4. On the other hand, if the nuclear force were substantially weaker than what it actually is, then the complex atoms needed for biology could not hold together.

5. As another example, if the relationship between the strengths of the gravitational force and the electromagnetic force were not close to what it is, then the cosmos would not harbor any stars that explode and spew out life-supporting chemical elements into space or any other stars that form planets. Both kinds of stars are required for the emergence of life.

6. The strengths of the basic forces and certain other fundamental parameters in our universe appear to be “fine-tuned” to allow the existence of life. The recognition of this fine tuning led British physicist Brandon Carter to articulate what he called the anthropic principle, which states that the universe must have the parameters it does because we are here to observe it. Actually, the word anthropic, from the Greek for “man,” is a misnomer: if these fundamental parameters were much different from what they are, it is not only human beings who would not exist. No life of any kind would exist."
The Accidental Universe | Harper's Magazine

Miracle .....or coincidence?

Maybe less miracle and less coincidence but more a kind of very hard fact. If I remember well then all natural constants have to be very very very exact for living structures - in one case it are about 40 digits. So even if the speculation about a Multiversum would be correct: In case we would be able to communicate with other universes then in only less than 1 of 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 cases we would be able to find life within a universe of this multiverse. And we do not know anything about wether life is existing in more than one case in our own universe too.

Life in our universe is probably not rare. What are the 5 most common elements of our universe? They exist everywhere. They exist in our sun, planet, space and in you.

So just because we are too small stupid and far to see life is all over the universe, that doesn't make us special or unique

"Life in our universe is probably not rare."


There couldn't be a more perfect example of the faith you have in your religion, science.

Why do you think we are all alone? Is there any scientific logic behind your belief?

The idea we are alone and special came from a time we didn't have all the facts. In fact they thought we were the center of the universe.

I tend to believe science because it's basing it's beliefs on facts, logic, reasoning.

There's no debating what Jesus said, right?

 

[PoliticalChic]

I thought a miracle was a God intervention. My bad.

This, from a Harper's essay, by a physicist.


1. " …according to various calculations, if the values of some of the fundamental parameters of our universe were a little larger or a little smaller, life could not have arisen.

2. For example, if the nuclear force were a few percentage points stronger than it actually is, then all the hydrogen atoms in the infant universe would have fused with other hydrogen atoms to make helium, and there would be no hydrogen left. No hydrogen means no water.
Although we are far from certain about what conditions are necessary for life, most biologists believe that water is necessary.

4. On the other hand, if the nuclear force were substantially weaker than what it actually is, then the complex atoms needed for biology could not hold together.

5. As another example, if the relationship between the strengths of the gravitational force and the electromagnetic force were not close to what it is, then the cosmos would not harbor any stars that explode and spew out life-supporting chemical elements into space or any other stars that form planets. Both kinds of stars are required for the emergence of life.

6. The strengths of the basic forces and certain other fundamental parameters in our universe appear to be “fine-tuned” to allow the existence of life. The recognition of this fine tuning led British physicist Brandon Carter to articulate what he called the anthropic principle, which states that the universe must have the parameters it does because we are here to observe it. Actually, the word anthropic, from the Greek for “man,” is a misnomer: if these fundamental parameters were much different from what they are, it is not only human beings who would not exist. No life of any kind would exist."
The Accidental Universe | Harper's Magazine

Miracle .....or coincidence?

Maybe less miracle and less coincidence but more a kind of very hard fact. If I remember well then all natural constants have to be very very very exact for living structures - in one case it are about 40 digits. So even if the speculation about a Multiversum would be correct: In case we would be able to communicate with other universes then in only less than 1 of 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 cases we would be able to find life within a universe of this multiverse. And we do not know anything about wether life is existing in more than one case in our own universe too.

Life in our universe is probably not rare. What are the 5 most common elements of our universe? They exist everywhere. They exist in our sun, planet, space and in you.

So just because we are too small stupid and far to see life is all over the universe, that doesn't make us special or unique

"Life in our universe is probably not rare."


There couldn't be a more perfect example of the faith you have in your religion, science.

I base that belief on science. You base your belief on ignorance. You can't see any other life so you assume you are special.

From what we can see, you're probably not.

Notice I use words like probably? Does your religion admit it doesn't know for sure? Hell no. It took 7 days. Your religion has answers for everything, even if they aren't good ones

"I base that belief on science."

Of course you don't.You base it on the same thing that other religious folk base it on....faith.

There is no proof, evidence, or even indication.

After you say "Life in our universe is probably not rare." you should follow with 'can I get an Amen!'

 

[sealybobo]

This, from a Harper's essay, by a physicist.


1. " …according to various calculations, if the values of some of the fundamental parameters of our universe were a little larger or a little smaller, life could not have arisen.

2. For example, if the nuclear force were a few percentage points stronger than it actually is, then all the hydrogen atoms in the infant universe would have fused with other hydrogen atoms to make helium, and there would be no hydrogen left. No hydrogen means no water.
Although we are far from certain about what conditions are necessary for life, most biologists believe that water is necessary.

4. On the other hand, if the nuclear force were substantially weaker than what it actually is, then the complex atoms needed for biology could not hold together.

5. As another example, if the relationship between the strengths of the gravitational force and the electromagnetic force were not close to what it is, then the cosmos would not harbor any stars that explode and spew out life-supporting chemical elements into space or any other stars that form planets. Both kinds of stars are required for the emergence of life.

6. The strengths of the basic forces and certain other fundamental parameters in our universe appear to be “fine-tuned” to allow the existence of life. The recognition of this fine tuning led British physicist Brandon Carter to articulate what he called the anthropic principle, which states that the universe must have the parameters it does because we are here to observe it. Actually, the word anthropic, from the Greek for “man,” is a misnomer: if these fundamental parameters were much different from what they are, it is not only human beings who would not exist. No life of any kind would exist."
The Accidental Universe | Harper's Magazine

Miracle .....or coincidence?

Maybe less miracle and less coincidence but more a kind of very hard fact. If I remember well then all natural constants have to be very very very exact for living structures - in one case it are about 40 digits. So even if the speculation about a Multiversum would be correct: In case we would be able to communicate with other universes then in only less than 1 of 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 cases we would be able to find life within a universe of this multiverse. And we do not know anything about wether life is existing in more than one case in our own universe too.

Life in our universe is probably not rare. What are the 5 most common elements of our universe? They exist everywhere. They exist in our sun, planet, space and in you.

So just because we are too small stupid and far to see life is all over the universe, that doesn't make us special or unique

"Life in our universe is probably not rare."


There couldn't be a more perfect example of the faith you have in your religion, science.

I base that belief on science. You base your belief on ignorance. You can't see any other life so you assume you are special.

From what we can see, you're probably not.

Notice I use words like probably? Does your religion admit it doesn't know for sure? Hell no. It took 7 days. Your religion has answers for everything, even if they aren't good ones

"I base that belief on science."

Of course you don't.You base it on the same thing that other religious folk base it on....faith.

There is no proof, evidence, or even indication.

After you say "Life in our universe is probably not rare." you should follow with 'can I get an Amen!'

What do you think and why do you think that? Maybe I believe the alternative to what you believe because what you believe makes no sense...

Unless of course you believe God did it? That's why God makes people stupid. Rather than look to find other life we should give up because your ancient ancestors said God told them we are unique/special/alone.

Your God, or religion I should say, got too much wrong. Called God of the gaps.

And when we find life somewhere else you'll just move the goalposts

 

[PoliticalChic]

I thought a miracle was a God intervention. My bad.

This, from a Harper's essay, by a physicist.


1. " …according to various calculations, if the values of some of the fundamental parameters of our universe were a little larger or a little smaller, life could not have arisen.

2. For example, if the nuclear force were a few percentage points stronger than it actually is, then all the hydrogen atoms in the infant universe would have fused with other hydrogen atoms to make helium, and there would be no hydrogen left. No hydrogen means no water.
Although we are far from certain about what conditions are necessary for life, most biologists believe that water is necessary.

4. On the other hand, if the nuclear force were substantially weaker than what it actually is, then the complex atoms needed for biology could not hold together.

5. As another example, if the relationship between the strengths of the gravitational force and the electromagnetic force were not close to what it is, then the cosmos would not harbor any stars that explode and spew out life-supporting chemical elements into space or any other stars that form planets. Both kinds of stars are required for the emergence of life.

6. The strengths of the basic forces and certain other fundamental parameters in our universe appear to be “fine-tuned” to allow the existence of life. The recognition of this fine tuning led British physicist Brandon Carter to articulate what he called the anthropic principle, which states that the universe must have the parameters it does because we are here to observe it. Actually, the word anthropic, from the Greek for “man,” is a misnomer: if these fundamental parameters were much different from what they are, it is not only human beings who would not exist. No life of any kind would exist."
The Accidental Universe | Harper's Magazine

Miracle .....or coincidence?

Maybe less miracle and less coincidence but more a kind of very hard fact. If I remember well then all natural constants have to be very very very exact for living structures - in one case it are about 40 digits. So even if the speculation about a Multiversum would be correct: In case we would be able to communicate with other universes then in only less than 1 of 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 cases we would be able to find life within a universe of this multiverse. And we do not know anything about wether life is existing in more than one case in our own universe too.

Life in our universe is probably not rare. What are the 5 most common elements of our universe? They exist everywhere. They exist in our sun, planet, space and in you.

So just because we are too small stupid and far to see life is all over the universe, that doesn't make us special or unique

"Life in our universe is probably not rare."


There couldn't be a more perfect example of the faith you have in your religion, science.

Why do you think we are all alone? Is there any scientific logic behind your belief?

The idea we are alone and special came from a time we didn't have all the facts. In fact they thought we were the center of the universe.

I tend to believe science because it's basing it's beliefs on facts, logic, reasoning.

There's no debating what Jesus said, right?

To understand your acceptance of science in place of religion requires an understanding of the French Revolution, the attempt to replace religion and morality with science and reason.

How blind must you be to say 'I tend to believe science because it's basing it's beliefs on facts, logic, reasoning' when there is not the slightest indication of what you believe.

I certainly don't begrudge you your faith.

 

[Hollie]

This, from a Harper's essay, by a physicist.


1. " …according to various calculations, if the values of some of the fundamental parameters of our universe were a little larger or a little smaller, life could not have arisen.

2. For example, if the nuclear force were a few percentage points stronger than it actually is, then all the hydrogen atoms in the infant universe would have fused with other hydrogen atoms to make helium, and there would be no hydrogen left. No hydrogen means no water.
Although we are far from certain about what conditions are necessary for life, most biologists believe that water is necessary.

4. On the other hand, if the nuclear force were substantially weaker than what it actually is, then the complex atoms needed for biology could not hold together.

5. As another example, if the relationship between the strengths of the gravitational force and the electromagnetic force were not close to what it is, then the cosmos would not harbor any stars that explode and spew out life-supporting chemical elements into space or any other stars that form planets. Both kinds of stars are required for the emergence of life.

6. The strengths of the basic forces and certain other fundamental parameters in our universe appear to be “fine-tuned” to allow the existence of life. The recognition of this fine tuning led British physicist Brandon Carter to articulate what he called the anthropic principle, which states that the universe must have the parameters it does because we are here to observe it. Actually, the word anthropic, from the Greek for “man,” is a misnomer: if these fundamental parameters were much different from what they are, it is not only human beings who would not exist. No life of any kind would exist."
The Accidental Universe | Harper's Magazine

Miracle .....or coincidence?

Maybe less miracle and less coincidence but more a kind of very hard fact. If I remember well then all natural constants have to be very very very exact for living structures - in one case it are about 40 digits. So even if the speculation about a Multiversum would be correct: In case we would be able to communicate with other universes then in only less than 1 of 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 cases we would be able to find life within a universe of this multiverse. And we do not know anything about wether life is existing in more than one case in our own universe too.

Life in our universe is probably not rare. What are the 5 most common elements of our universe? They exist everywhere. They exist in our sun, planet, space and in you.

So just because we are too small stupid and far to see life is all over the universe, that doesn't make us special or unique

"Life in our universe is probably not rare."


There couldn't be a more perfect example of the faith you have in your religion, science.

Why do you think we are all alone? Is there any scientific logic behind your belief?

The idea we are alone and special came from a time we didn't have all the facts. In fact they thought we were the center of the universe.

I tend to believe science because it's basing it's beliefs on facts, logic, reasoning.

There's no debating what Jesus said, right?

To understand your acceptance of science in place of religion requires an understanding of the French Revolution, the attempt to replace religion and morality with science and reason.

How blind must you be to say 'I tend to believe science because it's basing it's beliefs on facts, logic, reasoning' when there is not the slightest indication of what you believe.

I certainly don't begrudge you your faith.

The nonsense one would expect from the Harun Yahya groupies.

 

[Militants]

I'm a atheist when Lutheran God doesn't exist ....

 

[OZman]

Life in our universe is probably not rare. What are the 5 most common elements of our universe? They exist everywhere. They exist in our sun, planet, space and in you.

So just because we are too small stupid and far to see life is all over the universe, that doesn't make us special or unique

So they keep telling us sealy; might be true, but at this stage it is nothing more than speculation.

But that's not what they keep telling us. For thousands of years "they" said we were all alone.

But what do we know? We just recently discovered a new planet in our own solar system we didn't know was there.

Like Neil degrass Tyson said, the five main elements are all around us. They are everywhere. And we now believe life once lived on Mars and Venus. In fact Mars rocks might have been what started life on earth. A meteor hit Mars and flung Mars rock into space and bacteria in those rocks is what started life here.

Point is, science sees that life is probably not that rare or uncommon. Science explains your belief that life is rare is ignorant.

But you are right we don't know more than we do know. That doesn't give the God hypothesis any credibility

Science at this stage has no evidence of life elsewhere in the universe. So to my mind we as a species are indeed special.

For a different viewpoint than Tyson.

 

[PoliticalChic]

... We do not know what fundamental conditions would rule out any possibility of any life. ...

The condition for life are not unknowable: Energy is such a condition. Space is such a condition. Time too. Even the ability to write informations in every kind of energy, radiation and material is such a condition. Water is also such a condition. No one has only a little idea about how life could exist without water and the ability of water to transport energy and material ... And life needs also always a good balance between all extremes. We are lucky that the universe all around and within the solar system is a little boring - or with other words: stable enough so we are able to be here. ... and so on, and so on.

You left out Cannoli.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I thought a miracle was a God intervention. My bad.

This, from a Harper's essay, by a physicist.


1. " …according to various calculations, if the values of some of the fundamental parameters of our universe were a little larger or a little smaller, life could not have arisen.

2. For example, if the nuclear force were a few percentage points stronger than it actually is, then all the hydrogen atoms in the infant universe would have fused with other hydrogen atoms to make helium, and there would be no hydrogen left. No hydrogen means no water.
Although we are far from certain about what conditions are necessary for life, most biologists believe that water is necessary.

4. On the other hand, if the nuclear force were substantially weaker than what it actually is, then the complex atoms needed for biology could not hold together.

5. As another example, if the relationship between the strengths of the gravitational force and the electromagnetic force were not close to what it is, then the cosmos would not harbor any stars that explode and spew out life-supporting chemical elements into space or any other stars that form planets. Both kinds of stars are required for the emergence of life.

6. The strengths of the basic forces and certain other fundamental parameters in our universe appear to be “fine-tuned” to allow the existence of life. The recognition of this fine tuning led British physicist Brandon Carter to articulate what he called the anthropic principle, which states that the universe must have the parameters it does because we are here to observe it. Actually, the word anthropic, from the Greek for “man,” is a misnomer: if these fundamental parameters were much different from what they are, it is not only human beings who would not exist. No life of any kind would exist."
The Accidental Universe | Harper's Magazine

Miracle .....or coincidence?

Maybe less miracle and less coincidence but more a kind of very hard fact. If I remember well then all natural constants have to be very very very exact for living structures - in one case it are about 40 digits. So even if the speculation about a Multiversum would be correct: In case we would be able to communicate with other universes then in only less than 1 of 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 cases we would be able to find life within a universe of this multiverse. And we do not know anything about wether life is existing in more than one case in our own universe too.

Life in our universe is probably not rare. What are the 5 most common elements of our universe? They exist everywhere. They exist in our sun, planet, space and in you.

So just because we are too small stupid and far to see life is all over the universe, that doesn't make us special or unique

"Life in our universe is probably not rare."


There couldn't be a more perfect example of the faith you have in your religion, science.

I base that belief on science. You base your belief on ignorance. You can't see any other life so you assume you are special.

From what we can see, you're probably not.

Notice I use words like probably? Does your religion admit it doesn't know for sure? Hell no. It took 7 days. Your religion has answers for everything, even if they aren't good ones

"Does your religion admit it doesn't know for sure? Hell no. It took 7 days. Your religion has answers for everything, even if they aren't good ones."

So, your claim to fame is pride in ignorance???

Yet, you wrote this: "I base that belief on science. You base your belief on ignorance."


Priceless.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Life in our universe is probably not rare. What are the 5 most common elements of our universe? They exist everywhere. They exist in our sun, planet, space and in you.

So just because we are too small stupid and far to see life is all over the universe, that doesn't make us special or unique

So they keep telling us sealy; might be true, but at this stage it is nothing more than speculation.

But that's not what they keep telling us. For thousands of years "they" said we were all alone.

But what do we know? We just recently discovered a new planet in our own solar system we didn't know was there.

Like Neil degrass Tyson said, the five main elements are all around us. They are everywhere. And we now believe life once lived on Mars and Venus. In fact Mars rocks might have been what started life on earth. A meteor hit Mars and flung Mars rock into space and bacteria in those rocks is what started life here.

Point is, science sees that life is probably not that rare or uncommon. Science explains your belief that life is rare is ignorant.

But you are right we don't know more than we do know. That doesn't give the God hypothesis any credibility

"Like Neil degrass Tyson said, the five main elements are all around us."
(That should be "As Neil....")
(...and...I get to read Tyson's articles in the Columbia magazine....)


Bulletin: with elements available....no amount of experimentation has been able to make them come alive.
I direct you to Stanley Urey's famous experiment.


But...I commend the deep and abiding faith you have in your religion, science.

(as separate from real science, that which is based on the Scientific Method.)

 

[zaangalewa]

It just means we don't know yet.

So it was a miracle...

"A highly improbable or extraordinary event, development, or accomplishment that brings very welcome consequences."
Oxford Dictionary

...Or are you saying it doesn't meet that definition?

And just because we don't know doesn't make it a miracle.

I do believe it does.

If an ant walks out onto a busy 4 Lane road and makes it across is that a miracle?

What part of the definition I've provided doesn't this example meet?

Let's try it this way. Start from the beginning. You say a God kicked started the universe. OK, that seems like a confident definitive statement as if it's an unequivocal face.

Where did I state that?

So certainly you have at least one bit of evidence this God exists, right?

I observe God and his/her grand works everyday.

You surviving something is no miracle. You're just the smartest animal on this one planet and still very primitive.

Again... What part of the definition I've provided doesn't this example meet?

The question is there a God will never go away but hopefully the lies that he visited will one day fade

What lies would those be?



Before you criticize my beliefs any further perhaps you should read the rest of the thread.

*****CHUCKLE*****

I thought a miracle was a God intervention. My bad.

This, from a Harper's essay, by a physicist.


1. " …according to various calculations, if the values of some of the fundamental parameters of our universe were a little larger or a little smaller, life could not have arisen.

2. For example, if the nuclear force were a few percentage points stronger than it actually is, then all the hydrogen atoms in the infant universe would have fused with other hydrogen atoms to make helium, and there would be no hydrogen left. No hydrogen means no water.
Although we are far from certain about what conditions are necessary for life, most biologists believe that water is necessary.

4. On the other hand, if the nuclear force were substantially weaker than what it actually is, then the complex atoms needed for biology could not hold together.

5. As another example, if the relationship between the strengths of the gravitational force and the electromagnetic force were not close to what it is, then the cosmos would not harbor any stars that explode and spew out life-supporting chemical elements into space or any other stars that form planets. Both kinds of stars are required for the emergence of life.

6. The strengths of the basic forces and certain other fundamental parameters in our universe appear to be “fine-tuned” to allow the existence of life. The recognition of this fine tuning led British physicist Brandon Carter to articulate what he called the anthropic principle, which states that the universe must have the parameters it does because we are here to observe it. Actually, the word anthropic, from the Greek for “man,” is a misnomer: if these fundamental parameters were much different from what they are, it is not only human beings who would not exist. No life of any kind would exist."
The Accidental Universe | Harper's Magazine

Miracle .....or coincidence?

Maybe less miracle and less coincidence but more a kind of very hard fact. If I remember well then all natural constants have to be very very very exact for living structures - in one case it are about 40 digits. So even if the speculation about a Multiversum would be correct: In case we would be able to communicate with other universes then in only less than 1 of 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 cases we would be able to find life within a universe of this multiverse. And we do not know anything about wether life is existing in more than one case in our own universe too.

Life in our universe is probably not rare. What are the 5 most common elements of our universe? They exist everywhere. They exist in our sun, planet, space and in you.

So just because we are too small stupid and far to see life is all over the universe, that doesn't make us special or unique

The possibility for life is nearly not existing - on the other side exists a nearly endless number of suns including planets. I don't know the result of a calculation "nearly no way times nearly endless many places". It's equal or greater 1 - that's all what I know.

And everyone is unique. I don't understand why millions or even billions of people in the world try to say "We are unimportant because ... say so." Who for heavens sake is "..."? The golden calve? And why are you a member of "..." too?

God loves everyone as if this one would be the only human being in the whole universe. By the way: If a multiverse exists then every intelligent being in any of this universes takes a look in a very similiar gigantic universe. Life needs gigantic universes. And restaurants.

 

[sealybobo]

This, from a Harper's essay, by a physicist.


1. " …according to various calculations, if the values of some of the fundamental parameters of our universe were a little larger or a little smaller, life could not have arisen.

2. For example, if the nuclear force were a few percentage points stronger than it actually is, then all the hydrogen atoms in the infant universe would have fused with other hydrogen atoms to make helium, and there would be no hydrogen left. No hydrogen means no water.
Although we are far from certain about what conditions are necessary for life, most biologists believe that water is necessary.

4. On the other hand, if the nuclear force were substantially weaker than what it actually is, then the complex atoms needed for biology could not hold together.

5. As another example, if the relationship between the strengths of the gravitational force and the electromagnetic force were not close to what it is, then the cosmos would not harbor any stars that explode and spew out life-supporting chemical elements into space or any other stars that form planets. Both kinds of stars are required for the emergence of life.

6. The strengths of the basic forces and certain other fundamental parameters in our universe appear to be “fine-tuned” to allow the existence of life. The recognition of this fine tuning led British physicist Brandon Carter to articulate what he called the anthropic principle, which states that the universe must have the parameters it does because we are here to observe it. Actually, the word anthropic, from the Greek for “man,” is a misnomer: if these fundamental parameters were much different from what they are, it is not only human beings who would not exist. No life of any kind would exist."
The Accidental Universe | Harper's Magazine

Miracle .....or coincidence?

Maybe less miracle and less coincidence but more a kind of very hard fact. If I remember well then all natural constants have to be very very very exact for living structures - in one case it are about 40 digits. So even if the speculation about a Multiversum would be correct: In case we would be able to communicate with other universes then in only less than 1 of 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 cases we would be able to find life within a universe of this multiverse. And we do not know anything about wether life is existing in more than one case in our own universe too.

Life in our universe is probably not rare. What are the 5 most common elements of our universe? They exist everywhere. They exist in our sun, planet, space and in you.

So just because we are too small stupid and far to see life is all over the universe, that doesn't make us special or unique

"Life in our universe is probably not rare."


There couldn't be a more perfect example of the faith you have in your religion, science.

Why do you think we are all alone? Is there any scientific logic behind your belief?

The idea we are alone and special came from a time we didn't have all the facts. In fact they thought we were the center of the universe.

I tend to believe science because it's basing it's beliefs on facts, logic, reasoning.

There's no debating what Jesus said, right?

To understand your acceptance of science in place of religion requires an understanding of the French Revolution, the attempt to replace religion and morality with science and reason.

How blind must you be to say 'I tend to believe science because it's basing it's beliefs on facts, logic, reasoning' when there is not the slightest indication of what you believe.

I certainly don't begrudge you your faith.

How rare is life in the universe when this is a fact?

The Top 5 Most Common Elements in the Universe

Element Parts Per Million
1 Hydrogen (H) 750,000
2 Helium (He) 240,000
3 Oxygen (O) 10,000
4 Carbon (C) 5,000
5 Neon (Ne) 1,300

Life is probably everywhere. Just too far for you to see it. Your ignorance doesn't justify your beliefs but it does justify mine. Do these facts scare you or just go over your head because you aren't smart enough to grasp them?

Could Ancient Mars Have Supported Life? Water Isn't the Only Key

Evidence is building that Earth life originated on Mars and was brought to this planet aboard a meteorite, said biochemist Steven Benner of The Westheimer Institute for Science and Technology in Florida.

An oxidized form of the element molybdenum, which may have been crucial to the origin of life, was likely available on the Red Planet's surface long ago, but unavailable on Earth

- See more at: Earth Life Likely Came from Mars, Study Suggests

There is so much information that PROVES you are wrong. We don't claim to have all the answers. Not like you. So I do worship science and have faith in it because every cure we have has come from it. It's not perfect but it's better than religion.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Maybe less miracle and less coincidence but more a kind of very hard fact. If I remember well then all natural constants have to be very very very exact for living structures - in one case it are about 40 digits. So even if the speculation about a Multiversum would be correct: In case we would be able to communicate with other universes then in only less than 1 of 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 cases we would be able to find life within a universe of this multiverse. And we do not know anything about wether life is existing in more than one case in our own universe too.

Life in our universe is probably not rare. What are the 5 most common elements of our universe? They exist everywhere. They exist in our sun, planet, space and in you.

So just because we are too small stupid and far to see life is all over the universe, that doesn't make us special or unique

"Life in our universe is probably not rare."


There couldn't be a more perfect example of the faith you have in your religion, science.

Why do you think we are all alone? Is there any scientific logic behind your belief?

The idea we are alone and special came from a time we didn't have all the facts. In fact they thought we were the center of the universe.

I tend to believe science because it's basing it's beliefs on facts, logic, reasoning.

There's no debating what Jesus said, right?

To understand your acceptance of science in place of religion requires an understanding of the French Revolution, the attempt to replace religion and morality with science and reason.

How blind must you be to say 'I tend to believe science because it's basing it's beliefs on facts, logic, reasoning' when there is not the slightest indication of what you believe.

I certainly don't begrudge you your faith.

How rare is life in the universe when this is a fact?

The Top 5 Most Common Elements in the Universe

Element Parts Per Million
1 Hydrogen (H) 750,000
2 Helium (He) 240,000
3 Oxygen (O) 10,000
4 Carbon (C) 5,000
5 Neon (Ne) 1,300

Life is probably everywhere. Just too far for you to see it. Your ignorance doesn't justify your beliefs but it does justify mine. Do these facts scare you or just go over your head because you aren't smart enough to grasp them?

Could Ancient Mars Have Supported Life? Water Isn't the Only Key

Evidence is building that Earth life originated on Mars and was brought to this planet aboard a meteorite, said biochemist Steven Benner of The Westheimer Institute for Science and Technology in Florida.

An oxidized form of the element molybdenum, which may have been crucial to the origin of life, was likely available on the Red Planet's surface long ago, but unavailable on Earth

- See more at: Earth Life Likely Came from Mars, Study Suggests

There is so much information that PROVES you are wrong. We don't claim to have all the answers. Not like you. So I do worship science and have faith in it because every cure we have has come from it. It's not perfect but it's better than religion.

A pretty silly post, considering that I answered it already....

"Bulletin: with elements available....no amount of experimentation has been able to make them come alive."
I direct you to Stanley Urey's famous experiment.


More to the point: most especially with the 'raw materials' available, why have none of the vast number of attempts been able to accomplish 'life'?
Maybe life is a miracle.


And....I've been thinking about documenting the accuracy of the Genesis version...and would be happy to do so....but it is longer than I'd put in one post.
So...if you are interested in same, issue a challenge to Genesis that I can use in an OP: post that challenge, and I'll cobble together a thread answering it.