If God doesn't exist...

[RWS]

As the meaning of the word 'religion' has obviously been totally obscured here, positive or negative effects from it are going to be hard to determine.

Well, I'm personally talking about organized religions that use torture or the threat of death and "hell" to get new recruits, and the promise of salvation to create armies willing to kill and die for the religion. Which, are the 3 major biblical religions that are causing all the problems in the last 2000+ years, and their deviant offspring.

I have nothing against personal faith.

 

[RWS]

There's actually another option about "God" that could possibly be true. And it actually makes a lot of sense if true.

God is not a supernatural being, but an extra-terrestrial one. They came here, created us in their image using their DNA with the high ape at the time to use as a slave race, did what they needed, taught us what was necessary, and then left...

And we're here scratching our heads over it, and making stuff up afterwards.

This is what the Sumerians said 6000 years ago. And their texts are what most every other major religion is based on. So that is another option to add to the list of what "God" is or isn't...

You speak Sumerian?

Probably more than you speak Hebrew...

Where exactly do you base your bible from? And what language was it written in?

Why does that matter?

Because the OT was written in Hebrew, yet you're somehow an expert. And I'm also pretty sure you don't speak Greek either. So why ask me if I speak Sumerian?

It was to point out that the Sumerians no longer exist, Einstein. The Bible has been translated into many languages. Western Civilization was built on the Christian values of the Bible.

But the OT was a plagiarism of much more ancient texts that said totally different things about life and their superiors. Originating with the Sumerians 2000 years prior to the OT. Which has also been translated into many languages, but conveniently ignored by religious groups.

 

[ding]

As the meaning of the word 'religion' has obviously been totally obscured here, positive or negative effects from it are going to be hard to determine.

Here's some good advice for you....

Matt Walsh: Hey, smug millennial liberals — here are some New Year’s resolutions for you

 

[ding]

You speak Sumerian?

Probably more than you speak Hebrew...

Where exactly do you base your bible from? And what language was it written in?

Why does that matter?

Because the OT was written in Hebrew, yet you're somehow an expert. And I'm also pretty sure you don't speak Greek either. So why ask me if I speak Sumerian?

It was to point out that the Sumerians no longer exist, Einstein. The Bible has been translated into many languages. Western Civilization was built on the Christian values of the Bible.

But the OT was a plagiarism of much more ancient texts that said totally different things. Originating with the Sumerians 2000 years prior to the OT.

The first 11 chapters of the Bible is the history of all nations. What you perceive as being ripped off was in reality a shared belief which began in the cradle of civilization, Mesopotamia.

The account of genesis was recorded in the symbols of the first written language 4500 years ago

 

[ding]

As the meaning of the word 'religion' has obviously been totally obscured here, positive or negative effects from it are going to be hard to determine.

Well, I'm personally talking about organized religions that use torture or the threat of death and "hell" to get new recruits, and the promise of salvation to create armies willing to kill and die for the religion. Which, are the 3 major biblical religions that are causing all the problems in the last 2000+ years, and their deviant offspring.

I have nothing against personal faith.

Great, I'm happy to accept those negatives, when are you going to attribute the 200 million people murdered by militant atheist rulers on the 20th century?

 

[Mudda]

Probably more than you speak Hebrew...

Where exactly do you base your bible from? And what language was it written in?

Why does that matter?

Because the OT was written in Hebrew, yet you're somehow an expert. And I'm also pretty sure you don't speak Greek either. So why ask me if I speak Sumerian?

It was to point out that the Sumerians no longer exist, Einstein. The Bible has been translated into many languages. Western Civilization was built on the Christian values of the Bible.

But the OT was a plagiarism of much more ancient texts that said totally different things. Originating with the Sumerians 2000 years prior to the OT.

The first 11 chapters of the Bible is the history of all nations. What you perceive as being ripped off was in reality a shared belief which began in the cradle of civilization, Mesopotamia.

The account of genesis was recorded in the symbols of the first written language 4500 years ago

Proving that the bible is the word of the Chinese, not the word of God.

 

[hobelim]

In that theory, you get your Creation and beings with "super powers", you get your science, and it makes sense why the stories branched out into so many different and confusing paths afterwards, and why we fight about it. You just have to allow the possibility of an ET visiting the Earth in ancient times, like the Anunnaki ("those who from heaven to earth came"). If you can allow that possibility, then it is a very compelling argument indeed.

But regardless, it is not necessary in this discussion, except maybe in a historical context of what "God" originally was to the first people to learn how to write, who were also the first civilization known to man. And the plagiarism that took place afterwards that gave us our current God(s).... Maybe it is necessary in that understanding...

Watch out. You said ET.

When I suggested that possibility, a rational one, for some mysterious reason it made someone else freak out as if they felt threatened and they began hysterically demanding proof. lol.....


Another possibility is that there was an advanced civilization on the other side of this planet that achieved flight, came down from the sky, established a colony among superstitious neolithic hunter gatherers in the middle east, took great pains to try and civilize them with little success, and eventually said screw this place and left..

Then of course, maybe it is just like reported in scripture. Some sort of inter-dimensional contact via the mind with perfected beings from a higher realm of intelligent life who took great pains to try and civilize people of this world, with little success, and eventually said screw this place and left..

Let them come at me with the ET stuff!

I will argue the possibilities of ET's till I'm blue in the face (or green or gray), but i do not believe it's a truth yet... To me, they are very possible and can explain a lot of things in our history. So they are certainly something to consider as an option, and infinitely more possible than the OBG. The problem people have with aliens (besides religious ones) are the difficulties of interstellar travel based on our current state of scientific knowledge. I think given enough time we should overcome those difficulties and be able to travel to planets like ours outside our solar system, and that is a goal of science. So there's no reason to think beings from another planet haven't figured it out before us, and visited us.

The problem with traveling vast distances of space and time is eliminated if ancient people in the middle east were visited by people from an advanced civilization from the other side of this planet but the only problem with that theory is that the prophets in scripture clearly reported that they were visited by living beings not of this world that only resembled a human being with the semblance of a hand, seen and heard with their own eyes and ears either through dreams or visions, altered states of consciousness.

When Daniel had his vision, no one else present saw or heard a single thing even though they were sitting right next to him.

Perhaps they don't actually have to travel here physically to visit and influence people and affect the course history..They would only have to select one person from the scum of the earth, breathe the breath of life into their nostrils and form them into a living being like themselves who would have the outward appearance of a man....That would eliminate the problems presented by time and space and traveling across the universe. The laws of time and space and the limitations of a physical body do not apply in the realm of dreams. That would explain the lack of physical evidence. Who could provide evidence for anything seen and heard in a dream.?What could possibly validate such an experience aside from if what was foretold actually happened.?

How could anyone even tell if another human being had eaten of the tree of life and succeeded in becoming, "one of us", even if they were dissected?

Its fairly arrogant of people to dismiss the possibility of higher forms of intelligent life simply because they can't figure out how any living being from another world could possibly know the future of earth or travel through space and time.

...and I find it astonishing that some people profess to believe in angels in heaven or that Jesus, who said that his kingdom was not of this world, floated up into the sky after he died but then say that the possibility of extraterrestrial life is crazy talk.



lol...

 

[BreezeWood]

.
is that why all 29 electoral votes for Florida went to Trump ....



* I do not believe you, your claim you woke up differently, you just woke up more so than you already were and claimed something new that never happened much the same as your rendition of historical christianity - delusional both before and after.

.

Was it 29? If so, yes, that is exactly why. He won that state. And the 29 votes reflects the population of that state. That's how that shit works, Ivan.

.

Was it 29? If so, yes, that is exactly why. He won that state. And the 29 votes reflects the population of that state. That's how that shit works, Ivan.

I know that the entire population of the country was represented in this election and that no state was allowed to represent more than its population.

bing, you are a joke both by religion and politics - secularism has arrived for the betterment of both religion and politics inspite of your kind.

.

Ahhhh.... the religion of humanism.

.

Ahhhh.... the religion of humanism

why is there both humanism and christianity ...

your claim with humanbeing morals are encompassed through your gods by christianity could not be any further from the truth, morals are a secular bearing to be chosen from and is the origin for your religions errant path. especially for a deist.

.

Moral relativity is the bread and butter of humanism.

.

Communism is naturalized humanism.

Moral relativity is the bread and butter of humanism.

christianity is the example of moral relativity used as an excuse for their brutality and repression to insure their errant religions survival.

including those that cite the brutality of other persuasions while maintaining their own innocence, bing and proclaiming as in the past their disdain for appropriate remedies without merit simply for their own undeserved self preservation.

and continue the relativity of their uninterrupted history of misogyny.

.

 

[ding]

Was it 29? If so, yes, that is exactly why. He won that state. And the 29 votes reflects the population of that state. That's how that shit works, Ivan.

.

Was it 29? If so, yes, that is exactly why. He won that state. And the 29 votes reflects the population of that state. That's how that shit works, Ivan.

I know that the entire population of the country was represented in this election and that no state was allowed to represent more than its population.

bing, you are a joke both by religion and politics - secularism has arrived for the betterment of both religion and politics inspite of your kind.

.

Ahhhh.... the religion of humanism.

.

Ahhhh.... the religion of humanism

why is there both humanism and christianity ...

your claim with humanbeing morals are encompassed through your gods by christianity could not be any further from the truth, morals are a secular bearing to be chosen from and is the origin for your religions errant path. especially for a deist.

.

Moral relativity is the bread and butter of humanism.

.

Communism is naturalized humanism.

Moral relativity is the bread and butter of humanism.

christianity is the example of moral relativity used as an excuse for their brutality and repression to insure their errant religions survival.

including those that cite the brutality of other persuasions while maintaining their own innocence, bing and proclaiming as in the past their disdain for appropriate remedies without merit simply for their own undeserved self preservation.

and continue the relativity of their uninterrupted history of misogyny.

.

Nothing relative about the religion. Just the men. The religion of humanism is relative.

 

[BreezeWood]

.
bing, you are a joke both by religion and politics - secularism has arrived for the betterment of both religion and politics inspite of your kind.

.

Ahhhh.... the religion of humanism.

.

Ahhhh.... the religion of humanism

why is there both humanism and christianity ...

your claim with humanbeing morals are encompassed through your gods by christianity could not be any further from the truth, morals are a secular bearing to be chosen from and is the origin for your religions errant path. especially for a deist.

.

Moral relativity is the bread and butter of humanism.

.

Communism is naturalized humanism.

Moral relativity is the bread and butter of humanism.

christianity is the example of moral relativity used as an excuse for their brutality and repression to insure their errant religions survival.

including those that cite the brutality of other persuasions while maintaining their own innocence, bing and proclaiming as in the past their disdain for appropriate remedies without merit simply for their own undeserved self preservation.

and continue the relativity of their uninterrupted history of misogyny.

.

Nothing relative about the religion. Just the men. The religion of humanism is relative.

.

Nothing relative about the religion. Just the men. The religion of humanism is relative.

your religion is relative because you have no proof for any of its tenants to be truthful, i e an etching in stone from the time of Jesus corroborating anything "written" ... among other reasons.

.

 

[ding]

Ahhhh.... the religion of humanism.

.

Ahhhh.... the religion of humanism

why is there both humanism and christianity ...

your claim with humanbeing morals are encompassed through your gods by christianity could not be any further from the truth, morals are a secular bearing to be chosen from and is the origin for your religions errant path. especially for a deist.

.

Moral relativity is the bread and butter of humanism.

.

Communism is naturalized humanism.

Moral relativity is the bread and butter of humanism.

christianity is the example of moral relativity used as an excuse for their brutality and repression to insure their errant religions survival.

including those that cite the brutality of other persuasions while maintaining their own innocence, bing and proclaiming as in the past their disdain for appropriate remedies without merit simply for their own undeserved self preservation.

and continue the relativity of their uninterrupted history of misogyny.

.

Nothing relative about the religion. Just the men. The religion of humanism is relative.

.

Nothing relative about the religion. Just the men. The religion of humanism is relative.

your religion is relative because you have no proof for any of its tenants to be truthful, i e an etching in stone from the time of Jesus corroborating anything "written" ... among other reasons.

.

That's not what relative means.

 

[RWS]

Per Wiki, there are approximately 4,200 religions in the world.

Now, using that as a number going forward, and based on the meaning of being devoted to a religion, and that each one believes that their's is infallibly correct, that means that 4,199 of them are flat-out wrong!!!

Wow...

And given enough prodding, they're willing to kill the other 4,199 religions, and all the people that believe in them, just to prove they're right!

They all have common elements because there are natural laws. You seem more than ready to blame religion for the bad but very reluctant to give religion any credit for the good.

Despite the fact that you are making a fringe argument, your argument has two major flaws which are common to all critical theory arguments; 1. your analysis was made in a vacuum; 2. what you did analyze lacked objectivity.

Religion promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness. Religion is responsible for the creation of wonderful charities and organizations which serve the betterment of man. Religious persons and institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions. Religious persons and institutions have been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing. Religion gave us the concept of subsidiarity and has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility Religion teaches accountability and responsibility. Religion teaches that we have a choice in how we behave and that actions have consequences. Religion inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe and helps us feel connected to one another and to nature through regular community gatherings. Religion helps us feel less alone in the world by binding the community together. Religion serves to ennoble the human spirit and inspires love, peace and happiness. Religion brings order to our lives by promoting the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness and humility. Religion brings comfort to the terminally ill and can act as a source of hope for the oppressed. Religion teaches that we can transform ourselves. That it is possible to change for the better. Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon. No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market. The Catholic Church invented the university. Western law grew out of Church canon law. The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources. Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians. Religion gave us America. Religion gave us incredible artwork, music and architecture. Christianity has spread democracy throughout the world. Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression and rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII. Christians put a man on the moon and ended the cold war.

So getting back to my point that your argument has two major flaws; your argument that God and religion have done little good is not objective and you have yet to tell us what good the alternative to religion has done. Exactly what has atheism done? Because as near as I can tell, atheism's claim to fame is murdering 200 million people in the 20th century.

Let's talk about the "flaws"...

1. My analysis was made after studying many religions, and then science. And other alternatives to both.

2. What I analyzed was completely objective. Not subjective like your borne-in religion. I completely wiped the slate, and started thinking things through objectively.

I also promote the value of thankfulness, forgiveness, goodness and the rest of the things you mention. But religion did not create those values. They are created by natural selection. A species that wants to kill their own for no reason, is not going to last long. Natural selection will dictate that they care for each other, so we can continue to copulate and flourish. However.... this principle goes completely against what religion has done to us throughout history.

Your major flaw is that your theory is COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE. You have absolutely no objectivity. You believe what you believe, because that is what you were taught, and you continue to promote it despite the evil that you admit it has caused.

Rule #1: Goodness does not require a religion or a God.

That is why I ask why you need a "God" and why it's so important to you that it exists?

You don't have a positive case for your beliefs. You don't even know what a positive case is.

Because there is no positive case for religion. What you deem as "positive cases" for religion, are actually just acts of goodness by people who care for other people. That has nothing to do with religion.

The fact that you have to attribute acts of goodness to religion, means that you yourself have such a negative view of humanity that you think the only thing that keeps us going and being "good" is your OBG.

Dogs do good things for other dogs. They don't go around yapping about Puppy Claws being the reason they do what they do and how other dogs should believe in it... They just do it because it is natural. Helps them maintain their species, their family, and themselves.

You, on the other hand, have this belief that without God or religion, we would all kill everyone because we don't have direction or a common goal or a sense of morality.

My argument, is that religion is the one killing everyone. Sane people like most of us here realize that, and shun religion for the evil that it is.

Religion has never caused any good. It has instead attributed to itself "good" things that humans normally do, as the reasons they do it. But that is false, and why you are brainwashed.

Religions would decimate a population and steal all their riches, and take the people that survive as slaves, and use that money and manpower to build holy monuments and cathedrals for their followers to visit, but that is actually NOT a "good" thing as you seem to believe! It is a very BAD thing...

So tell me something negative religion has done, if you're such an objective thinker...

I have already provided the positive case for religion. You are not objective enough to accept it. You have a vague rosy notion of goodness of life without religion. Yet history records nations which have been ruled by militant atheists like yourself quite differently.

If you are referring to "socialist" countries, then the truth is that they are also a religion. They're a form of Calvinism and Puritanism, minus the "god" part.

And it's also a false religion because the purpose of Socialism is to lead the people to Communism. Which will never happen! It's their version of "heaven". An ideal that does not exist, but causes people to continue to give everything they have to benefit the rulers, in the futile hope that they can get there, and the fear of death if they don't.

So the so-called "atheist" countries that you mention in the 20th century, are actually devout religions.

And like every other religion, they will kill everyone who stands in their way...

 

[RWS]

.
why is there both humanism and christianity ...

your claim with humanbeing morals are encompassed through your gods by christianity could not be any further from the truth, morals are a secular bearing to be chosen from and is the origin for your religions errant path. especially for a deist.

.

Moral relativity is the bread and butter of humanism.

.

Communism is naturalized humanism.

Moral relativity is the bread and butter of humanism.

christianity is the example of moral relativity used as an excuse for their brutality and repression to insure their errant religions survival.

including those that cite the brutality of other persuasions while maintaining their own innocence, bing and proclaiming as in the past their disdain for appropriate remedies without merit simply for their own undeserved self preservation.

and continue the relativity of their uninterrupted history of misogyny.

.

Nothing relative about the religion. Just the men. The religion of humanism is relative.

.

Nothing relative about the religion. Just the men. The religion of humanism is relative.

your religion is relative because you have no proof for any of its tenants to be truthful, i e an etching in stone from the time of Jesus corroborating anything "written" ... among other reasons.

.

That's not what relative means.

 

[RWS]

Per Wiki, there are approximately 4,200 religions in the world.

Now, using that as a number going forward, and based on the meaning of being devoted to a religion, and that each one believes that their's is infallibly correct, that means that 4,199 of them are flat-out wrong!!!

Wow...

And given enough prodding, they're willing to kill the other 4,199 religions, and all the people that believe in them, just to prove they're right!

They all have common elements because there are natural laws. You seem more than ready to blame religion for the bad but very reluctant to give religion any credit for the good.

Despite the fact that you are making a fringe argument, your argument has two major flaws which are common to all critical theory arguments; 1. your analysis was made in a vacuum; 2. what you did analyze lacked objectivity.

Religion promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness. Religion is responsible for the creation of wonderful charities and organizations which serve the betterment of man. Religious persons and institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions. Religious persons and institutions have been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing. Religion gave us the concept of subsidiarity and has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility Religion teaches accountability and responsibility. Religion teaches that we have a choice in how we behave and that actions have consequences. Religion inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe and helps us feel connected to one another and to nature through regular community gatherings. Religion helps us feel less alone in the world by binding the community together. Religion serves to ennoble the human spirit and inspires love, peace and happiness. Religion brings order to our lives by promoting the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness and humility. Religion brings comfort to the terminally ill and can act as a source of hope for the oppressed. Religion teaches that we can transform ourselves. That it is possible to change for the better. Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon. No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market. The Catholic Church invented the university. Western law grew out of Church canon law. The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources. Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians. Religion gave us America. Religion gave us incredible artwork, music and architecture. Christianity has spread democracy throughout the world. Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression and rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII. Christians put a man on the moon and ended the cold war.

So getting back to my point that your argument has two major flaws; your argument that God and religion have done little good is not objective and you have yet to tell us what good the alternative to religion has done. Exactly what has atheism done? Because as near as I can tell, atheism's claim to fame is murdering 200 million people in the 20th century.

Let's talk about the "flaws"...

1. My analysis was made after studying many religions, and then science. And other alternatives to both.

2. What I analyzed was completely objective. Not subjective like your borne-in religion. I completely wiped the slate, and started thinking things through objectively.

I also promote the value of thankfulness, forgiveness, goodness and the rest of the things you mention. But religion did not create those values. They are created by natural selection. A species that wants to kill their own for no reason, is not going to last long. Natural selection will dictate that they care for each other, so we can continue to copulate and flourish. However.... this principle goes completely against what religion has done to us throughout history.

Your major flaw is that your theory is COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE. You have absolutely no objectivity. You believe what you believe, because that is what you were taught, and you continue to promote it despite the evil that you admit it has caused.

Rule #1: Goodness does not require a religion or a God.

That is why I ask why you need a "God" and why it's so important to you that it exists?

You don't have a positive case for your beliefs. You don't even know what a positive case is.

Because there is no positive case for religion. What you deem as "positive cases" for religion, are actually just acts of goodness by people who care for other people. That has nothing to do with religion.

The fact that you have to attribute acts of goodness to religion, means that you yourself have such a negative view of humanity that you think the only thing that keeps us going and being "good" is your OBG.

Dogs do good things for other dogs. They don't go around yapping about Puppy Claws being the reason they do what they do and how other dogs should believe in it... They just do it because it is natural. Helps them maintain their species, their family, and themselves.

You, on the other hand, have this belief that without God or religion, we would all kill everyone because we don't have direction or a common goal or a sense of morality.

My argument, is that religion is the one killing everyone. Sane people like most of us here realize that, and shun religion for the evil that it is.

Religion has never caused any good. It has instead attributed to itself "good" things that humans normally do, as the reasons they do it. But that is false, and why you are brainwashed.

Religions would decimate a population and steal all their riches, and take the people that survive as slaves, and use that money and manpower to build holy monuments and cathedrals for their followers to visit, but that is actually NOT a "good" thing as you seem to believe! It is a very BAD thing...

So tell me something negative religion has done, if you're such an objective thinker...

I have already provided the positive case for religion. You are not objective enough to accept it. You have a vague rosy notion of goodness of life without religion. Yet history records nations which have been ruled by militant atheists like yourself quite differently.

No. You said you are objective...

So tell me negative things about religion. Otherwise, you're just spouting stuff that you were brainwashed with as a child. And still believe as an adult.

 

[Mudda]

The bible can be traced back to the Chinese, and I bet they're still laughing about how all the white folks fell for it so easily.

 

[ding]

They all have common elements because there are natural laws. You seem more than ready to blame religion for the bad but very reluctant to give religion any credit for the good.

Despite the fact that you are making a fringe argument, your argument has two major flaws which are common to all critical theory arguments; 1. your analysis was made in a vacuum; 2. what you did analyze lacked objectivity.

Religion promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness. Religion is responsible for the creation of wonderful charities and organizations which serve the betterment of man. Religious persons and institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions. Religious persons and institutions have been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing. Religion gave us the concept of subsidiarity and has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility Religion teaches accountability and responsibility. Religion teaches that we have a choice in how we behave and that actions have consequences. Religion inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe and helps us feel connected to one another and to nature through regular community gatherings. Religion helps us feel less alone in the world by binding the community together. Religion serves to ennoble the human spirit and inspires love, peace and happiness. Religion brings order to our lives by promoting the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness and humility. Religion brings comfort to the terminally ill and can act as a source of hope for the oppressed. Religion teaches that we can transform ourselves. That it is possible to change for the better. Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon. No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market. The Catholic Church invented the university. Western law grew out of Church canon law. The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources. Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians. Religion gave us America. Religion gave us incredible artwork, music and architecture. Christianity has spread democracy throughout the world. Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression and rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII. Christians put a man on the moon and ended the cold war.

So getting back to my point that your argument has two major flaws; your argument that God and religion have done little good is not objective and you have yet to tell us what good the alternative to religion has done. Exactly what has atheism done? Because as near as I can tell, atheism's claim to fame is murdering 200 million people in the 20th century.

Let's talk about the "flaws"...

1. My analysis was made after studying many religions, and then science. And other alternatives to both.

2. What I analyzed was completely objective. Not subjective like your borne-in religion. I completely wiped the slate, and started thinking things through objectively.

I also promote the value of thankfulness, forgiveness, goodness and the rest of the things you mention. But religion did not create those values. They are created by natural selection. A species that wants to kill their own for no reason, is not going to last long. Natural selection will dictate that they care for each other, so we can continue to copulate and flourish. However.... this principle goes completely against what religion has done to us throughout history.

Your major flaw is that your theory is COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE. You have absolutely no objectivity. You believe what you believe, because that is what you were taught, and you continue to promote it despite the evil that you admit it has caused.

Rule #1: Goodness does not require a religion or a God.

That is why I ask why you need a "God" and why it's so important to you that it exists?

You don't have a positive case for your beliefs. You don't even know what a positive case is.

Because there is no positive case for religion. What you deem as "positive cases" for religion, are actually just acts of goodness by people who care for other people. That has nothing to do with religion.

The fact that you have to attribute acts of goodness to religion, means that you yourself have such a negative view of humanity that you think the only thing that keeps us going and being "good" is your OBG.

Dogs do good things for other dogs. They don't go around yapping about Puppy Claws being the reason they do what they do and how other dogs should believe in it... They just do it because it is natural. Helps them maintain their species, their family, and themselves.

You, on the other hand, have this belief that without God or religion, we would all kill everyone because we don't have direction or a common goal or a sense of morality.

My argument, is that religion is the one killing everyone. Sane people like most of us here realize that, and shun religion for the evil that it is.

Religion has never caused any good. It has instead attributed to itself "good" things that humans normally do, as the reasons they do it. But that is false, and why you are brainwashed.

Religions would decimate a population and steal all their riches, and take the people that survive as slaves, and use that money and manpower to build holy monuments and cathedrals for their followers to visit, but that is actually NOT a "good" thing as you seem to believe! It is a very BAD thing...

So tell me something negative religion has done, if you're such an objective thinker...

I have already provided the positive case for religion. You are not objective enough to accept it. You have a vague rosy notion of goodness of life without religion. Yet history records nations which have been ruled by militant atheists like yourself quite differently.

If you are referring to "socialist" countries, then the truth is that they are also a religion. They're a form of Calvinism and Puritanism, minus the "god" part.

And it's also a false religion because the purpose of Socialism is to lead the people to Communism. Which will never happen! It's their version of "heaven". An ideal that does not exist, but causes people to continue to give everything they have to benefit the rulers, in the futile hope that they can get there, and the fear of death if they don't.

So the so-called "atheist" countries that you mention in the 20th century, are actually devout religions.

And like every other religion, they will kill everyone who stands in their way...

Yes, atheism is a religion. No, not all religions kill everything in their way.

 

[Mudda]

Was Jesus Chinese as well?

 

[ding]

They all have common elements because there are natural laws. You seem more than ready to blame religion for the bad but very reluctant to give religion any credit for the good.

Despite the fact that you are making a fringe argument, your argument has two major flaws which are common to all critical theory arguments; 1. your analysis was made in a vacuum; 2. what you did analyze lacked objectivity.

Religion promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness. Religion is responsible for the creation of wonderful charities and organizations which serve the betterment of man. Religious persons and institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions. Religious persons and institutions have been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing. Religion gave us the concept of subsidiarity and has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility Religion teaches accountability and responsibility. Religion teaches that we have a choice in how we behave and that actions have consequences. Religion inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe and helps us feel connected to one another and to nature through regular community gatherings. Religion helps us feel less alone in the world by binding the community together. Religion serves to ennoble the human spirit and inspires love, peace and happiness. Religion brings order to our lives by promoting the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness and humility. Religion brings comfort to the terminally ill and can act as a source of hope for the oppressed. Religion teaches that we can transform ourselves. That it is possible to change for the better. Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon. No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market. The Catholic Church invented the university. Western law grew out of Church canon law. The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources. Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians. Religion gave us America. Religion gave us incredible artwork, music and architecture. Christianity has spread democracy throughout the world. Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression and rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII. Christians put a man on the moon and ended the cold war.

So getting back to my point that your argument has two major flaws; your argument that God and religion have done little good is not objective and you have yet to tell us what good the alternative to religion has done. Exactly what has atheism done? Because as near as I can tell, atheism's claim to fame is murdering 200 million people in the 20th century.

Let's talk about the "flaws"...

1. My analysis was made after studying many religions, and then science. And other alternatives to both.

2. What I analyzed was completely objective. Not subjective like your borne-in religion. I completely wiped the slate, and started thinking things through objectively.

I also promote the value of thankfulness, forgiveness, goodness and the rest of the things you mention. But religion did not create those values. They are created by natural selection. A species that wants to kill their own for no reason, is not going to last long. Natural selection will dictate that they care for each other, so we can continue to copulate and flourish. However.... this principle goes completely against what religion has done to us throughout history.

Your major flaw is that your theory is COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE. You have absolutely no objectivity. You believe what you believe, because that is what you were taught, and you continue to promote it despite the evil that you admit it has caused.

Rule #1: Goodness does not require a religion or a God.

That is why I ask why you need a "God" and why it's so important to you that it exists?

You don't have a positive case for your beliefs. You don't even know what a positive case is.

Because there is no positive case for religion. What you deem as "positive cases" for religion, are actually just acts of goodness by people who care for other people. That has nothing to do with religion.

The fact that you have to attribute acts of goodness to religion, means that you yourself have such a negative view of humanity that you think the only thing that keeps us going and being "good" is your OBG.

Dogs do good things for other dogs. They don't go around yapping about Puppy Claws being the reason they do what they do and how other dogs should believe in it... They just do it because it is natural. Helps them maintain their species, their family, and themselves.

You, on the other hand, have this belief that without God or religion, we would all kill everyone because we don't have direction or a common goal or a sense of morality.

My argument, is that religion is the one killing everyone. Sane people like most of us here realize that, and shun religion for the evil that it is.

Religion has never caused any good. It has instead attributed to itself "good" things that humans normally do, as the reasons they do it. But that is false, and why you are brainwashed.

Religions would decimate a population and steal all their riches, and take the people that survive as slaves, and use that money and manpower to build holy monuments and cathedrals for their followers to visit, but that is actually NOT a "good" thing as you seem to believe! It is a very BAD thing...

So tell me something negative religion has done, if you're such an objective thinker...

I have already provided the positive case for religion. You are not objective enough to accept it. You have a vague rosy notion of goodness of life without religion. Yet history records nations which have been ruled by militant atheists like yourself quite differently.

No. You said you are objective...

So tell me negative things about religion. Otherwise, you're just spouting stuff that you were brainwashed with as a child. And still believe as an adult.

Actually, no it doesn't mean that. I'm not the one who is practicing critical theory. That's what you are doing. I don't define my beliefs by criticizing what I don't believe. Christianity is the foundation that Western Civilization was laid upon. By any objective measure Western Civilization has been a force for good, thus, Christianity has been a force for good. Do you believe that Western Civilization has not been a force for good? In the history of Western Civilization there have been many bad things that man has done, I don't need to itemize them to know that the overall benefit has been good. The logical conclusion of your argument is that religion should be banned.

 

[BreezeWood]

Let's talk about the "flaws"...

1. My analysis was made after studying many religions, and then science. And other alternatives to both.

2. What I analyzed was completely objective. Not subjective like your borne-in religion. I completely wiped the slate, and started thinking things through objectively.

I also promote the value of thankfulness, forgiveness, goodness and the rest of the things you mention. But religion did not create those values. They are created by natural selection. A species that wants to kill their own for no reason, is not going to last long. Natural selection will dictate that they care for each other, so we can continue to copulate and flourish. However.... this principle goes completely against what religion has done to us throughout history.

Your major flaw is that your theory is COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE. You have absolutely no objectivity. You believe what you believe, because that is what you were taught, and you continue to promote it despite the evil that you admit it has caused.

Rule #1: Goodness does not require a religion or a God.

That is why I ask why you need a "God" and why it's so important to you that it exists?

You don't have a positive case for your beliefs. You don't even know what a positive case is.

Because there is no positive case for religion. What you deem as "positive cases" for religion, are actually just acts of goodness by people who care for other people. That has nothing to do with religion.

The fact that you have to attribute acts of goodness to religion, means that you yourself have such a negative view of humanity that you think the only thing that keeps us going and being "good" is your OBG.

Dogs do good things for other dogs. They don't go around yapping about Puppy Claws being the reason they do what they do and how other dogs should believe in it... They just do it because it is natural. Helps them maintain their species, their family, and themselves.

You, on the other hand, have this belief that without God or religion, we would all kill everyone because we don't have direction or a common goal or a sense of morality.

My argument, is that religion is the one killing everyone. Sane people like most of us here realize that, and shun religion for the evil that it is.

Religion has never caused any good. It has instead attributed to itself "good" things that humans normally do, as the reasons they do it. But that is false, and why you are brainwashed.

Religions would decimate a population and steal all their riches, and take the people that survive as slaves, and use that money and manpower to build holy monuments and cathedrals for their followers to visit, but that is actually NOT a "good" thing as you seem to believe! It is a very BAD thing...

So tell me something negative religion has done, if you're such an objective thinker...

I have already provided the positive case for religion. You are not objective enough to accept it. You have a vague rosy notion of goodness of life without religion. Yet history records nations which have been ruled by militant atheists like yourself quite differently.

No. You said you are objective...

So tell me negative things about religion. Otherwise, you're just spouting stuff that you were brainwashed with as a child. And still believe as an adult.

Actually, no it doesn't mean that. I'm not the one who is practicing critical theory. That's what you are doing. I don't define my beliefs by criticizing what I don't believe. Christianity is the foundation that Western Civilization was laid upon. By any objective measure Western Civilization has been a force for good, thus, Christianity has been a force for good. Do you believe that Western Civilization has not been a force for good? In the history of Western Civilization there have been many bad things that man has done, I don't need to itemize them to know that the overall benefit has been good. The logical conclusion of your argument is that religion should be banned.

.

In the history of Western Civilization there have been many bad things that man has done, I don't need to itemize them to know that the overall benefit has been good.

a rather pathetic statement ... how else could a christian characterize their religion.

with his trumpet blaring ...
.

 

[ding]

You don't have a positive case for your beliefs. You don't even know what a positive case is.

Because there is no positive case for religion. What you deem as "positive cases" for religion, are actually just acts of goodness by people who care for other people. That has nothing to do with religion.

The fact that you have to attribute acts of goodness to religion, means that you yourself have such a negative view of humanity that you think the only thing that keeps us going and being "good" is your OBG.

Dogs do good things for other dogs. They don't go around yapping about Puppy Claws being the reason they do what they do and how other dogs should believe in it... They just do it because it is natural. Helps them maintain their species, their family, and themselves.

You, on the other hand, have this belief that without God or religion, we would all kill everyone because we don't have direction or a common goal or a sense of morality.

My argument, is that religion is the one killing everyone. Sane people like most of us here realize that, and shun religion for the evil that it is.

Religion has never caused any good. It has instead attributed to itself "good" things that humans normally do, as the reasons they do it. But that is false, and why you are brainwashed.

Religions would decimate a population and steal all their riches, and take the people that survive as slaves, and use that money and manpower to build holy monuments and cathedrals for their followers to visit, but that is actually NOT a "good" thing as you seem to believe! It is a very BAD thing...

So tell me something negative religion has done, if you're such an objective thinker...

I have already provided the positive case for religion. You are not objective enough to accept it. You have a vague rosy notion of goodness of life without religion. Yet history records nations which have been ruled by militant atheists like yourself quite differently.

No. You said you are objective...

So tell me negative things about religion. Otherwise, you're just spouting stuff that you were brainwashed with as a child. And still believe as an adult.

Actually, no it doesn't mean that. I'm not the one who is practicing critical theory. That's what you are doing. I don't define my beliefs by criticizing what I don't believe. Christianity is the foundation that Western Civilization was laid upon. By any objective measure Western Civilization has been a force for good, thus, Christianity has been a force for good. Do you believe that Western Civilization has not been a force for good? In the history of Western Civilization there have been many bad things that man has done, I don't need to itemize them to know that the overall benefit has been good. The logical conclusion of your argument is that religion should be banned.

.

In the history of Western Civilization there have been many bad things that man has done, I don't need to itemize them to know that the overall benefit has been good.

a rather pathetic statement ... how else could a christian characterize their religion.

with his trumpet blaring ...
.

Maybe you can tell me about your beliefs of God then. How's that? Can you share with me what you believe about God? Tell me if you believe God is good or bad? Tell me if you believe God works through you? Can you tell me anything at all about your beliefs?