Zone1 If Biden Issued a Gun Control EO That Included Forced Confiscation, Would You Support This?

[johngaltshrugged]

There are more Firearms in Private ( Non Military / Non LEO )Hands In Anchorage Alaska than there are Firearms in Private Hands In ALL OF CHINA .

Alaskans do love our guns.
That said, with the huge population difference (over 1 billion in China & less than 400K in Anchorage), that's amazing though I imagine few of the peasants had any guns even before Mao's cultural revolution forced disarmament.

 

[The Duke]

The Taliban had the support of the people and a religious connection. Do you really imagine that the people are going to trade what they have for an uncertain future, to put it mildly, under an extremist RW insanity? The problem is that the majority oppose your ideals.

Wisconsin just held an election for their Supreme Court. For decades we’ve been told that the majority support banning abortion. The only problem is that every time it is on the ballot the majority seem to vote to support Abortion. In this case the trend continued and the Liberal who promised to protect Abortion was elected.

Wisconsin is a swing state. One of them. So if you want to be the next Taliban you’ll need to adapt to the majority idealism, or start lying to the people about what you believe. If you do try lying the question comes up what are you fighting about?

But it isn’t about guns. It’s about food. Beans and bullets. Let’s say you gather thirty people around to follow you. You now need to provide ninety meals a day to feed your troops. That is a lot of food. And unless you live on a farm that produces a ton of food, you ain’t gonna be able to do it.

Thirty people. One platoon. One lousy platoon. If you don’t feed them they won’t stay. What are you going to do? Raid some Government warehouse full of MRE’s? Those are on Military Bases. The Military probably won’t take too kindly to you showing to get the food. Back to overwhelming firepower wiping out your rebellion.

The people you may say. They’re armed too, and the odds of them giving up their food for your cause is pretty slim. Not many are going to say here take the chow me and my family are thrilled to starve for you.

They’re going to shoot you.

And as for getting shot. Have you considered medical? Have a Trauma Surgeon handy? You’ll need one. You will need medics trained and equipped for battlefield injuries. You’ll need a way to care for your people. Otherwise a minor wound will become fatal. Your followers won’t follow you if you stand over a guy who died from blood poisoning and declare it was Gawd’s Will.

So go ahead. Have your dreams. Write some dystopian fiction. Because that is the only place where you can possibly achieve success. On the pages of a bad novel.

Son, they indoctrinated your ass but good!

 

[Stryder50]

The Taliban had the support of the people and a religious connection. Do you really imagine that the people are going to trade what they have for an uncertain future, to put it mildly, under an extremist RW insanity? The problem is that the majority oppose your ideals.

Wisconsin just held an election for their Supreme Court. For decades we’ve been told that the majority support banning abortion. The only problem is that every time it is on the ballot the majority seem to vote to support Abortion. In this case the trend continued and the Liberal who promised to protect Abortion was elected.

Wisconsin is a swing state. One of them. So if you want to be the next Taliban you’ll need to adapt to the majority idealism, or start lying to the people about what you believe. If you do try lying the question comes up what are you fighting about?

But it isn’t about guns. It’s about food. Beans and bullets. Let’s say you gather thirty people around to follow you. You now need to provide ninety meals a day to feed your troops. That is a lot of food. And unless you live on a farm that produces a ton of food, you ain’t gonna be able to do it.

Thirty people. One platoon. One lousy platoon. If you don’t feed them they won’t stay. What are you going to do? Raid some Government warehouse full of MRE’s? Those are on Military Bases. The Military probably won’t take too kindly to you showing to get the food. Back to overwhelming firepower wiping out your rebellion.

The people you may say. They’re armed too, and the odds of them giving up their food for your cause is pretty slim. Not many are going to say here take the chow me and my family are thrilled to starve for you.

They’re going to shoot you.

And as for getting shot. Have you considered medical? Have a Trauma Surgeon handy? You’ll need one. You will need medics trained and equipped for battlefield injuries. You’ll need a way to care for your people. Otherwise a minor wound will become fatal. Your followers won’t follow you if you stand over a guy who died from blood poisoning and declare it was Gawd’s Will.

So go ahead. Have your dreams. Write some dystopian fiction. Because that is the only place where you can possibly achieve success. On the pages of a bad novel.

Your first sentence is 100% crap and that makes the rest of your post likewise.

Taliban are an extremist expression of Islam, taking Muhammad's last instruction literally, to convert all humankind to Islam, by force if necessary.

Islamic dogma is that higher levels of Heaven/Paradise are only available to holy warriors whom engage in physical Jihad. Taliban has only a slight support from some of the people in Afghanistan, very few of which are the women. Taliban do have support from the ISI of Pakistan whom have encouraged, trained, and supported them, to keep that region destabilized.
Taliban's "religious connection" is similar to the one the German Nazis had.

 

[SavannahMann]

Your first sentence is 100% crap and that makes the rest of your post likewise.

Taliban are an extremist expression of Islam, taking Muhammad's last instruction literally, to convert all humankind to Islam, by force if necessary.

Islamic dogma is that higher levels of Heaven/Paradise are only available to holy warriors whom engage in physical Jihad. Taliban has only a slight support from some of the people in Afghanistan, very few of which are the women. Taliban do have support from the ISI of Pakistan whom have encouraged, trained, and supported them, to keep that region destabilized.
Taliban's "religious connection" is similar to the one the German Nazis had.

Your post would be more convincing if the Taliban had faced any resistance when they took over the country as we were leaving.

 

[Stryder50]

Your post would be more convincing if the Taliban had faced any resistance when they took over the country as we were leaving.

I doubt you want to be convinced, or could be to point of changing your view. My post was more for the benefit of other readers to know an opposing view and facts.

The efforts of many to escape when Joe had our guys tuck tail and run away, would be the first clue. Also, after decades of internal fighting, many had little desire to continue, especially if there was no outside support, outside/other(USA) forces carrying most of the load. Once the Taliban was in control, news coming out of the nation was greatly restricted and it's a sure thing that the resistance would have been downplayed, if revealed at all. It's likely many outside of the Taliban just complied to save their skin, even though they would rather not have that circumstance.

It is both amusing and distressful that you of the loonie Left always support those in other nations that want to impose tyranny and deny their people basic Rights.

 

[Stryder50]

How many times has the Second been debated on this board? How many court cases have extended and expanded Second Amendment power? So any Executive Order would be ruled as unconstitutional in ten minutes wouldn’t it? But that isn’t what you want to read. You want to read that you have to prepare for some sort of civil war. It’s dumb.



So if you want to fight the Military, be my guest. But don’t scream it isn’t fair later. It’s what you wanted.

But back to the topic at hand. An Executive Order requiring turning in of firearms. Everyone knows it wouldn’t happen. Even a law passed by a majority Democrat congress and signed by the President wouldn’t stand up for ten minutes into the first court challenge. It would be ruled unconstitutional.

But you want people afraid of their Government, you want them hating. Fortunately the way to inoculate people agains this hatred and fear is with truth. And the truth is that what is described, just can’t happen.

But let’s pretend that it did. Ok, we are going to have to add massive steroids to the Suspend Disbelief requirement in fiction. But let’s go ahead. Do you think the best weapon is an AR15 or similar high capacity magazine fed medium caliber rifle is the way to go? You see, the Military and Police have similar weapons, and even better. You shoot at a bunch of soldiers, and they shoot back. Then they bring up the belt fed machine gun, and the mortars, and grenade launchers, and you are dead. They have Rocket Launchers, Missiles, and a ton of firepower you don’t.

So your best bet, in all honesty, is a long range rifle, and skills you probably don’t possess. Sniper stuff. Popping an enemy at eight hundred meters with a high powered rifle, one shot, slip away, and escape the area before they can fix your location. But a high powered bolt action rifle just isn’t sexy is it? It’s not nearly as heroic in your mind as standing there with a three thousand dollar AR clone and mowing down the enemy who is obligingly walking directly towards you without any cover or body armor.

Again, all of this isn’t even academic. It’s not fiction, it’s fantasy. Because again, if Biden did sign such an Executive Order the courts would quash it in moments. The various gun groups would trample little old ladies and orphans to be the first to file the motion before the court.

As for who told me to write that? Nobody. But I’ve been listening to you idiots for years now, the we have to be prepared for Civil War two point oh.

Want to know the most likely scenario where your rifle would come into play that way? Not the actions of the Government. But the collapse of the Government. And that scenario is about as likely as the idea that the Executive Order would somehow be accepted by the courts.

Civil disorder is the more likely variation, though in Summer 2020 case we did see a form of "government collapse" in that most of the cities had Democrat mayors and admins whom choose to let the mobs run wild with their riot, looting, arson, etc. Had it gone much further, there is a chance we might have seen vigilante response from the politic opposition to AntiFa, 'BLM', and similar.

Those of us whom were around back during the Rodney King riots recall scenes of Korean store owners defending their property from the rooftops with rifles, some likely ARs, etc., so that is case where many of us would see semi-auto rifles a useful tool.

AR in either chambered capability, but especially 7.62 can do as well or better than classic bolt action hunting rifles. Especially if facing off against a charging bear for example.

Your youtube insert show a few of the classic fails from you anti-gun, anti-second amendment loonies.;
1) In 1776 the Colonials had firearms of the same type and capability as the British troops/RedCoats. Also had acquired cannons, so the "Rebels" were close to equally armed to the Brits. This is the context from which the Second Amendment was written.
2) Our USA military is volunteer and many whom sign up for the combat arms come from the same demographic as those whom are pro-2nd Amendment*. The same military members, current and former half a large number of membership in the NRA and are among the "gun collectors". Neal Breenan and ilk are a bit misinformed and clueless.
*BTW, this is one major reason our Woke military is seeing significant shortfall in recruiting goals.
3) If there ever were to be an American Civil War 2.0, many in current military would be AWOL from units that were "fighting" on the government side. Those AWOL, and likely much of their Kit* would be on side of and working with the "anti-government" faction.
*Kit would include those heavy weapons, A-10s, Abrams, etc.

 

[The Duke]

Why does the right run to this conspiracy so often? The first time I heard it was during Clinton.

Right before the "Assault Weapons Ban", amirite?

AKA SKS marketing 1995. I didn't bite. I took one look at them bullets and thought "fuck that".

And then the accuracy of them is..unacceptable to me as well.

Foreign nations made a lot of money off of SKSs and ammo for them sold in the US during that "Assault Weapons Ban."

 

[Failzero]

Right before the "Assault Weapons Ban", amirite?

AKA SKS marketing 1995. I didn't bite. I took one look at them bullets and thought "fuck that".

And then the accuracy of them is..unacceptable to me as well.

Foreign nations made a lot of money off of SKSs and ammo for them sold in the US during that "Assault Weapons Ban."

Because they are an intermediate Cartridge stop gap Battle Rifle .

 

[SavannahMann]

Civil disorder is the more likely variation, though in Summer 2020 case we did see a form of "government collapse" in that most of the cities had Democrat mayors and admins whom choose to let the mobs run wild with their riot, looting, arson, etc. Had it gone much further, there is a chance we might have seen vigilante response from the politic opposition to AntiFa, 'BLM', and similar.

Those of us whom were around back during the Rodney King riots recall scenes of Korean store owners defending their property from the rooftops with rifles, some likely ARs, etc., so that is case where many of us would see semi-auto rifles a useful tool.

AR in either chambered capability, but especially 7.62 can do as well or better than classic bolt action hunting rifles. Especially if facing off against a charging bear for example.

Your youtube insert show a few of the classic fails from you anti-gun, anti-second amendment loonies.;
1) In 1776 the Colonials had firearms of the same type and capability as the British troops/RedCoats. Also had acquired cannons, so the "Rebels" were close to equally armed to the Brits. This is the context from which the Second Amendment was written.
2) Our USA military is volunteer and many whom sign up for the combat arms come from the same demographic as those whom are pro-2nd Amendment*. The same military members, current and former half a large number of membership in the NRA and are among the "gun collectors". Neal Breenan and ilk are a bit misinformed and clueless.
*BTW, this is one major reason our Woke military is seeing significant shortfall in recruiting goals.
3) If there ever were to be an American Civil War 2.0, many in current military would be AWOL from units that were "fighting" on the government side. Those AWOL, and likely much of their Kit* would be on side of and working with the "anti-government" faction.
*Kit would include those heavy weapons, A-10s, Abrams, etc.

I am a Veteran. I did nine years in the Army. I was a Combat Engineer in the 82nd Airborne.

I doubt you could be more wrong. You are another of those fools who dreams of Civil War 2.0. You have no concept of what you are talking about. Instead you fantasize about the Military coming over to your side. I’ll grant a few would. But a vast majority would not. They swore the same oath I did. To support and defend the constitution against all enemies. Foreign and Domestic. A vast majority of the troops remember the oath. To obey the orders of the Commander in Chief and all officers appointed above them.

You are another of those people who think that people will rise up in large numbers to join you in wiping out the undesirables. The Liberals. The Minorities. Anyone not like you.

The Troops are not going to abandon their buddies to join some wannabe authoritarian regime with no foundation.

Trump’s popularity slips in latest Military Times poll — and more troops say they’ll vote for Biden

About half of troops surveyed for the poll said they have an unfavorable view of the commander in chief.

www.militarytimes.com

And even the Veterans no longer serving actively don’t support you in large enough numbers.

Poll: Trump backed by majority of veterans, but not younger ones

A Military Times poll of veterans found stark differences in veterans voting preferences among different age groups.

www.militarytimes.com

And the idiot idea that an A-10 will come over and even the odds. Do you have any idea how much maintenance those things need? Have a lot of 30mm depleted uranium ammo laying around? No? So even if it does come over, after the first mission it’s out of ammo. After the fifth it’s grounded waiting on parts you also don’t have.

Look at an Aircraft carrier. There are five thousand people aboard to keep 100 aircraft flying. That’s a hell of a lot of people.

 

[Failzero]

The Mil / NG & LEOs Will Not side with the Communists ( no matter who they are against or who starts it )

 

[Batcat]

Me too.
This is the end game though if the leftist gun grabbers get their way.

They know we'll never willingly surrender our rights to weapons of self defense so any calls to strip gun rights is a de facto acknowledgement that they support the idea of OTHERS coming to take our guns from us.
The fact they always blame lawful gun owners when another crazed idiot goes off belies the claim they wouldn't relish the chance to forcefully remove our guns.
The notion they wouldn't attempt to confiscate guns if presented with an opportunity (an EO) is laughable.

I remember back in the 1970s reading an article in a gun magazine discussing how to set up a weapons cache in case guns were ever confiscated. Every year I read such articles. I’m sure some people have actually made such caches. I’m glad I didn’t as I have moved so often taking them down and setting them up again would have been a real pain in the ass.

I wonder if caches would help explain why people who have so many firearms buy more and still more.

If you are curious there are plenty of articles on the net about making a weapons and valuables caches. Google is your friend.

 

[SavannahMann]

The Mil / NG & LEOs Will Not side with the Communists ( no matter who they are against or who starts it )

Right. Look up George Wallace on the University Steps.

 

[Failzero]

Right. Look up George Wallace on the University Steps.

He was a Governor in the 1960s , and had no control beyond his State ( if you reside in Michigan or Illinois or New York or Washington State you could be fucked )

 

[SavannahMann]

He was a Governor in the 1960s , and had no control beyond his State ( if you reside in Michigan or Illinois or New York or Washington State you could be fucked )

He ordered the State National Guard to ignore the orders of Washington. The General of the National Guard. The General appointed by Wallace and who answered to the Governor was Federalized. The General ordered the Governor to stand aside.

Stand in the Schoolhouse Door - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The National Guard is a state organization, but can be federalized. And that means the Soldiers are required to ignore contradicting orders from the State.

Texas had to scramble to pay for their National Guard to the border idiocy. Operation I’m doing something cost a small fortune.

Texas Military Department says it needs $460 million more to keep border mission afloat this year

State officials have repeatedly had to move money from other departments to keep Gov. Greg Abbott’s multibillion-dollar border mission running this year.

www.texastribune.org

At least they’re all getting paid now. That wasn’t always the case was it?

Some National Guardsmen deployed at the border experiencing pay issues

The Texas Military Department acknowledged the issue and said it was affecting about 150 service members.

www.khou.com

Those Patriots we keep hearing who are chomping at the bit to fight the Federal Government. I can’t find many of them. I can find many who are pissed off at being used stupidly. And Texas screwed the troops. Since it wasn’t authorized by the Feds, the deployed troops won’t qualify for VA benefits for any injuries or wounds.

“I hate it here”: National Guard members sound off on Texas border mission in leaked morale survey

Frustration, anxiety and anger prevailed in the survey responses obtained by the The Texas Tribune and Military Times. The survey includes responses from nearly 250 members of Task Force South, one of six units that fall under the umbrella of Operation Lone Star.

www.texastribune.org

 

[Failzero]

I am chomping at the bit to kill Communists ( like 85% of our Active Duty Military and LEOs are also )

 

[SavannahMann]

I am chomping at the bit to kill Communists ( like 85% of our Active Duty Military and LEOs are also )

So when are you enlisting?

 

[Failzero]

So when are you enlisting? Sergeant ( Inactive ) in California State Militia

 

[SavannahMann]

Failzero The California State Militia. Ah yes. Those idiotic fools who think that they are just as good as the real military.

Well I was a Sergeant. Real. Promoted and received awards from real Soldiers. I didn’t read a book and decide I was an expert. If you read a book and didn’t just watch Red Dawn and the John Wayne Movies.

No wonder you think the Military shares your views.

Ever have bullets zipping past your noggin? I have. In training and in real life. Ever gone looking for enemy Booby Traps and mines? I have. Ever found shrapnel holes in your gear and realize you were lucky your pack took it and not you? Been there. Done that.

California Militia. You might as well say Airsoft Commando. The difference between you as a Sergeant in the Militia and an Infantry Private fresh out of basic is simple. He at least has a clue about what he’s supposed to do when the metal is flying.

 

[Failzero]

Failzero The California State Militia. Ah yes. Those idiotic fools who think that they are just as good as the real military.

Well I was a Sergeant. Real. Promoted and received awards from real Soldiers. I didn’t read a book and decide I was an expert. If you read a book and didn’t just watch Red Dawn and the John Wayne Movies.

No wonder you think the Military shares your views.

Ever have bullets zipping past your noggin? I have. In training and in real life. Ever gone looking for enemy Booby Traps and mines? I have. Ever found shrapnel holes in your gear and realize you were lucky your pack took it and not you? Been there. Done that.

California Militia. You might as well say Airsoft Commando. The difference between you as a Sergeant in the Militia and an Infantry Private fresh out of basic is simple. He at least has a clue about what he’s supposed to do when the metal is flying.

I have gone through Initial and renewals for California CCW ( I’m 100% sure you would washout in obtaining one ) , Street Pistol Classes , Level 1 & 2 Tactical Carbine Fighting Classes ( my classmates were Trinity & Shasta County Sheriffs SWAT deputies ) and carried legally throughout California since 2011 and it took from 2011 - 2015 to make Sergeant ( Qualified Infantry at age 52 ) and many of our Members are ex Leo / Former Military or both and at our peak our best veteran Youngsters were as well trained as any California National Guard with many having had combat deployment like NG would .

 

[SavannahMann]

I have gone through Initial and renewals for California CCW ( I’m 100% sure you would washout in obtaining one ) , Street Pistol Classes , Level 1 & 2 Tactical Carbine Fighting Classes ( my classmates were Trinity & Shasta County Sheriffs SWAT deputies ) and carried legally throughout California since 2011 and it took from 2011 - 2015 to make Sergeant ( Qualified Infantry at age 52 ) and many of our Members are ex Leo / Former Military or both and at our peak our best veteran Youngsters were as well trained as any California National Guard with many having had combat deployment like NG would .

Well by comparison I feel inadequate. I only went through 13 weeks of basic and advanced training for Combat Engineers. I went to Jump School at Fort Benning and earned my wings. I was assigned to the 307th Engineers at Fort Bragg. 82nd Airborne Division. I had 21 jumps with the division.

I attended the Machine Gunners Development course. A week of intensive machine gun training. I was on the Battalion and Brigade Pistol team. But I only finished in the top third at the Division Competition.

I was an expert with Pistol, Rifle, and Machine Gun. I attended Jungle Warfare Training at Fort Sherman Panama. NTC at Fort Irwin. NRTC in Arkansas. Sapper School at Fort Leonard Wood. Participated in Training with Green Berets and Navy Seals. Attended the Amphibious Warfare training rotation at Camp LeJune NC. PLDC at Fort Bragg. I could go on.

As for how good we were my mates and I were. We got our clocks cleaned by the Green Beanies and the Seals. But that means they were really good. Otherwise they would not train against us.

We did twelve mile marches with full combat gear. About sixty pounds in three hours. We did that every single quarter. We did six mile runs every day.

But you say I would wash out. Curious. Less than ten percent of the army tries for Airborne. Half of those wash out. I got the wings. Sapper School is for the top ten percent of Engineers. A platoon a month goes through. Sleep deprivation, starvation, and exhaustion are your constant companions. Most people who wash out do so on the Land Navigation course. You are given a map, and compass, and told to find certain points in the woods. Day and night. No GPS or other tech.

Now I admit my wars were the easy ones. Desert Shield/Storm. I spent most of my time clearing booby traps from enemy bunkers. I was the first in looking for holdouts and things that would kill our guys.

I wasn’t a hero. I was just another soldier. One of over a hundred in our company who went and did the job we were trained to do. When Hurricane Andrew ravaged South Florida it was the Division who went down to restore order and provide succor. I was one of those who spent eighteen hours a day pushing supplies out to the people down there.

The motto of the 82nd is All the Way. And that is what you did. You didn’t go until you were tired. You went all the way. You didn’t stop because it was hard. You went all the way.

I also have a CCW. I attended the training courses. Since I had been tactically trained by the army I focused on my weakest area. The law. This way I would understand the legal implications and situations I would face.

I see folks like you at the range. I show up and shoot at bullseye targets. They scoff and tell me the bad guy won’t be wearing a target. I spent years shooting at human targets and even shot at humans. If I’m pulling the trigger the baddie might as well be wearing a target.

Then they want to explain that most gunfights take place inside fifteen feet. I’m running the target out to fifty yards. I have the wrong pistol. I need an Sig, or a Smith. I pull out my .357 and load it up. I put bullets in the black. A few bullseye’s. But more than 80% end up in the black. When I pull the target back in the tactical heroes are practicing their quick draws. Because why wouldn’t they?

I shoot the snub nose at twenty five yards. I’m reasonable and know fifty yards is too far for a two inch barrel. That’s the weapon I usually carry. The gun range experts tell me that is a bad choice. I carry it in the wrong kind of holster. I need high capacity and all that.

As I said. Compared to you and your friends who dream of the day civilization falls, I feel so inadequate.