Zone1 If a follower of Judaism simply cannot keep Shabbat, is there a way to make amends?

[Cougarbear]

1) Jesus has no bearing on Judaism. That he was Jewish doesn’t matter.

2) It is not your duty to “offer correct solutions.” Who are YOU to tell people that are wrong and you are correct?

3) I didn’t say sin is a beautiful thing. I said Havdalah following Yom Kippur is one of the most beautiful moments of the year. We have been cleansed of our sins as Gd has forgiven us.

1. Sure it does! He came from the line through David as prophesied. And, He was a Rabbi.
2. Yes, it is. I keep the commandments and covenants I've made. One is to share the Gospel and the truth. Who are you to deny me this opportunity and freedom of religion and speech? Heck, in Israel they even let Muslims and Christians legislate. And, you can't stand some questioning of traditions?
3. Well, without the shedding of the animal sacrifice, how have you been saved from your sins? I'm not saying God doesn't forgive someone with a broken heart and a contrite spirit of any religion. However, the proper ordinances are showing of our repentance and faith. Was it a Priest who performed whatever ritual you have instituted in place of the animal sacrifice? Elder, 70, High Priest?

 

[BreezeWood]

I think the rules vary among different variations of Judaism. The list of what strictly orthodox Jews are not allowed to do during Shabbat is long and to non Jews most of it may seem ridiculous. So called 'reformed' Jews may be less strict in following rules they see as decided by men (rabbis) and not God. So it will vary at times. I do think most thoughtful employers do accommodate the religious traditions of their Jewish employees as much as they can.

It isn't always easy for a non Jew to get straight forward answers on religious beliefs from a Jewish person. I was teaching a course on JudeoChristian history one time and a student asked, "How does a Jew know when the Sabbath begins on a cloudy day?" (Shabbat begins at sundown on Friday.) I didn't know and went to some Jewish chatrooms to get some answers. I was considered a malicious Christian troll however and was pretty severely verbally pummeled until I left.

This was on AOL with instant messaging though and one Jewish gentlemen did message me and determined I wasn't a troll. He explained that in his family, Shabbat began when the Sabbath meal was on the table Friday evening. Simple solution.

I wish now I had asked about how Jews should handle being asked or required to go to their jobs on the Sabbath. I didn't think about it at the time.

do you suppose for that to be holly they would haft to have completed whatever they were working on - and be pleased with what they had accomplished - for it to be a sabbath ...

- asking for a friend.

so it is w/ the religion of antiquity.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I'm not sure what you mean by "of Joseph" as there is no tribe of Joseph -- there are two tribes, each named for one of his sons. Are you from India or Burma?

Of course there is a Tribe of Joseph. Joseph was the ruler (son of Jacob/Israel) who saved his brothers during the famine of Egypt.

The twelve sons form the basis for the twelve tribes of Israel, listed in the order from oldest to youngest: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, and Benjamin.

 

[Foxfyre]

do you suppose for that to be holly they would haft to have completed whatever they were working on - and be pleased with what they had accomplished - for it to be a sabbath ...

- asking for a friend.

so it is w/ the religion of antiquity.

I don't know. I know what I think, what I believe, what I suspect, what I don't know. I allow others the same respect to think, believe, suspect, wonder about what they do.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

3. Well, without the shedding of the animal sacrifice, how have you been saved from your sins?

Animal sacrifices don't pay for their sins. They were only meant to instill the need for "someone" to give up their life for their sins. The Jews never really comprehended this ritual

 

[Carl in Michigan]

do you suppose for that to be holly they would haft to have completed whatever they were working on - and be pleased with what they had accomplished - for it to be a sabbath ...

- asking for a friend.

so it is w/ the religion of antiquity.

It would be good if you tried to post to be understood

 

[BreezeWood]

I don't know. I know what I think, what I believe, what I suspect, what I don't know. I allow others the same respect to think, believe, suspect, wonder about what they do.

even if written incorrectly - or knowingly. both, as moses. those that wrote in their name. to be corrected. they could be in torment, misdeeds against the heavens.

 

[Foxfyre]

even if written incorrectly - or knowingly. both, as moses. those that wrote in their name. to be corrected. they could be in torment, misdeeds against the heavens.

I honestly have no clue what you mean to say here. Sorry. The thread is about the rabbinical rules for Shabbat as practiced by the Jews. My belief is that it is God's prerogative to judge what are misdeeds and what are not and I hope he appreciates heartfelt efforts to please Him whether or not he demands those efforts.

 

[rosends]

Of course there is a Tribe of Joseph. Joseph was the ruler (son of Jacob/Israel) who saved his brothers during the famine of Egypt.

In what sense was there a tribe? In terms of land in Israel, there is no separate tribe of Joseph. In terms of lineage, no general "Joseph" -- just the 2 tribes named after his sons. That he was a second in command in Egypt is irrelevant. In certain other areas, Joseph is accounted as a distinct unit, but not for things like tribal census or gift to the tabernacle.

The twelve sons form the basis for the twelve tribes of Israel, listed in the order from oldest to youngest: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, and Benjamin.

the 12 sons are not the same as the twelve tribes.

Here is some explanation

Why do people keep saying 12 tribes of Israel when there are 13?

The Encyclopædia Britannica article “Twelve Tribes of Israel” says (emphasis added), Jacob’s first wife, Leah, bore him six sons: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, and Zebulun. Each was the f...

judaism.stackexchange.com

 

[Foxfyre]

Actually, at least speaking of Orthodox Jewry, the Chabad website is pretty normative as it is quoting the central texts of Jewish law.

Perhaps so. I sure don't pretend to be an expert on rabbinical law or interpretation of it and I trust that you know a whole lot more than I do. I just don't believe many Jews that I know would think they erred terribly if the candles were lit immediately after sundown.

 

[rosends]

Perhaps so. I sure don't pretend to be an expert on rabbinical law or interpretation of it and I trust that you know a whole lot more than I do. I just don't believe many Jews that I know would think they erred terribly if the candles were lit immediately after sundown.

Probably. In my community there is a mad rush to light at the right time. The candle lighting time is actually 18 minutes before sundown so there is a little breathing room.

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/3240769/jewish/Why-Are-Shabbat-Candles-Lit-18-Minutes-Before-Sunset.htm

 

[AsherN]

Perhaps so. I sure don't pretend to be an expert on rabbinical law or interpretation of it and I trust that you know a whole lot more than I do. I just don't believe many Jews that I know would think they erred terribly if the candles were lit immediately after sundown.

Jews are a wide variety of observance. All orthodox, most Conservative and some Reform will adhere strictly to the official times.

 

[Cougarbear]

Animal sacrifices don't pay for their sins. They were only meant to instill the need for "someone" to give up their life for their sins. The Jews never really comprehended this ritual

Semantics. But very true. They lose the Temple but never blamed themselves. They are run over by the Assyrians, Babylonians and Roman and never thought that maybe it was them that left God, not God left them.

 

[shockedcanadian]

I think the rules vary among different variations of Judaism. The list of what strictly orthodox Jews are not allowed to do during Shabbat is long and to non Jews most of it may seem ridiculous. So called 'reformed' Jews may be less strict in following rules they see as decided by men (rabbis) and not God. So it will vary at times. I do think most thoughtful employers do accommodate the religious traditions of their Jewish employees as much as they can.

It isn't always easy for a non Jew to get straight forward answers on religious beliefs from a Jewish person. I was teaching a course on JudeoChristian history one time and a student asked, "How does a Jew know when the Sabbath begins on a cloudy day?" (Shabbat begins at sundown on Friday.) I didn't know and went to some Jewish chatrooms to get some answers. I was considered a malicious Christian troll however and was pretty severely verbally pummeled until I left.

This was on AOL with instant messaging though and one Jewish gentlemen did message me and determined I wasn't a troll. He explained that in his family, Shabbat began when the Sabbath meal was on the table Friday evening. Simple solution.
imo
I wish now I had asked about how Jews should handle being asked or required to go to their jobs on the Sabbath. I didn't think about it at the time.

It is very diffcult for me to keep Shabbat right now. I am not required because I am not Jewish, but it is important for me to be closer to G_d.

 

[Foxfyre]

It is very diffcult for me to keep Shabbat right now. I am not required because I am not Jewish, but it is important for me to be closer to G_d.

I respect the disciplines people of faith keep in their effort to be obedient to God. But Jesus, who was very big on just plain common sense, reminded us that the Sabbath was made for us and not the other way around. It is wise to take one day of rest in seven but the Gregorian calendar wasn't created until the last 16th Century so who knows what the day of the week the Sabbath was on in Biblical times? So I think we do the best we can to obey God as we understand it. And I think God allows us a lot of leeway when we are doing the best we can.

 

[Clyde 154]

Surely not everyone has Saturdays off from work. Or, they absolutely must refrain from rest for any number of reasons. any practitioners (or simply those in the know) have a recourse plan if you fail to properly rest during Shabbat? Maybe fast, ask for forgiveness etc. Thank you for your time.

Its a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God (Heb. 10:31)

There is no hate toward any Orthodox Jew.........I respect those who will defend their faith. I simply present the Truth as I read it within the pages of the Holy Scriptures, from both the Old Text and the New Text.

What do the Holy Scriptures declare? Many Jews who were "husbanded" by the God of creation ".....My covenant that they broke while I was a husband unto them".

Thus, God decided because..........none were worthy to walk the Law without sinning and the covenant provided no hope of eternal salvation and fellowship, "Behold the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah.....," -- Jer. 31:31=34. Did God make a mistake with the Law of Moses, aka the Law? Of course not........the O.T. details exactly why the Law came into existence, as an example to the world as to how the God of Creation keeps His word. The Laws of God are upright and righteous (Ps. 119:137-138, 164)

Its men that are not righteous (Rom. 3:10-12) The Law was not for the entire world and its nations but for Biblical Israel only (Deut. 5:2-3). By following the Law the Israelites were bound/married to God (Ex. 19:5-6) The Law made Israel different and distinct among the other nations of the earth....Israel was an example of things to come to the entire world (Deut. 4:5-8), the Law prepared the earth for salvation through grace (2 Tim. 3:15-17)........God's prophet declared the Law was only temporary (Jer.31:31-34) while the Law was once written on stone and to be followed literally by the letter..........the New Covenant would be written on the heart of God's servants.


(Why Lord instead of God? Because the original Hebrew alphabet was quickly becoming a lost tongue and the Rabbis feared that God's name would be taken in vain, and the majority of the Hebrews adopted the Greek Translation from the Original Hebrew tongue called the "Septuagint"...thus, Lord became the word that identified the God of Creation out of fear of corrupting God's name. By the time of the 1st century AD Greek was the universal language of the then, modern world. Even today, it takes years of education to simply comprehend the basic elements of the original Hebrew tongue. Of the world's population, there are but a few million that can speak Hebrew and even less that is educated to read it and translate it. (0.01%). God is not the author of confusion. The Hebrew language did not exist on earth for almost 2000 years, since the fall of Jerusalem and the scattering of the tribes among the world's population. The almost dead language was just recently in history revised.

What happens if you fail to walk just one step outside the edicts of the Law and the Prophets.......you are guilty of breaking them all. (James 2:10) There is only 1 answer, accept the New Covenant that saves through grace instead of works. All men sin whether under the LAWs definition of sin or the commandments under the N.T.
Its a daily struggle to overcome the flesh by allowing your spirit to guide your steps based upon that which should reside within you, The words of the Holy Spirit of Truth....as all scriptures are inspired of God (2 Tim. 3:16-17)

I respect the O.T. text very much........it should be studied and understood. The Old Text provides examples for us today.........in righteousness (Heb. 12:1), What happens if we fail to understand the struggle of men such as Job or Elijah (James 5:11, James 5:17) How Christian women should study and understand "Sarah" in order to be good wives (1 Peter 3:6). How to trust God in overcoming wickedness (1 Cor. 10: 1-11) Knowledge of the days, and years wondering in the wilderness serves as a warning to us (Heb. 2:1-3, 10:28-29) How we should attempt to never stray to far away from the Words of the Holy Spirit which should guide us in this struggle called life, the further you stray, the more you pointlessly wonder in this life and the more difficult it becomes to find your truth path once again.

 

[Cougarbear]

Its a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God (Heb. 10:31)

There is no hate toward any Orthodox Jew.........I respect those who will defend their faith. I simply present the Truth as I read it within the pages of the Holy Scriptures, from both the Old Text and the New Text.

What do the Holy Scriptures declare? Many Jews who were "husbanded" by the God of creation ".....My covenant that they broke while I was a husband unto them".

Thus, God decided because..........none were worthy to walk the Law without sinning and the covenant provided no hope of eternal salvation and fellowship, "Behold the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah.....," -- Jer. 31:31=34. Did God make a mistake with the Law of Moses, aka the Law? Of course not........the O.T. details exactly why the Law came into existence, as an example to the world as to how the God of Creation keeps His word. The Laws of God are upright and righteous (Ps. 119:137-138, 164)

Its men that are not righteous (Rom. 3:10-12) The Law was not for the entire world and its nations but for Biblical Israel only (Deut. 5:2-3). By following the Law the Israelites were bound/married to God (Ex. 19:5-6) The Law made Israel different and distinct among the other nations of the earth....Israel was an example of things to come to the entire world (Deut. 4:5-8), the Law prepared the earth for salvation through grace (2 Tim. 3:15-17)........God's prophet declared the Law was only temporary (Jer.31:31-34) while the Law was once written on stone and to be followed literally by the letter..........the New Covenant would be written on the heart of God's servants.


(Why Lord instead of God? Because the original Hebrew alphabet was quickly becoming a lost tongue and the Rabbis feared that God's name would be taken in vain, and the majority of the Hebrews adopted the Greek Translation from the Original Hebrew tongue called the "Septuagint"...thus, Lord became the word that identified the God of Creation out of fear of corrupting God's name. By the time of the 1st century AD Greek was the universal language of the then, modern world. Even today, it takes years of education to simply comprehend the basic elements of the original Hebrew tongue. Of the world's population, there are but a few million that can speak Hebrew and even less that is educated to read it and translate it. (0.01%). God is not the author of confusion. The Hebrew language did not exist on earth for almost 2000 years, since the fall of Jerusalem and the scattering of the tribes among the world's population. The almost dead language was just recently in history revised.

What happens if you fail to walk just one step outside the edicts of the Law and the Prophets.......you are guilty of breaking them all. (James 2:10) There is only 1 answer, accept the New Covenant that saves through grace instead of works. All men sin whether under the LAWs definition of sin or the commandments under the N.T.
Its a daily struggle to overcome the flesh by allowing your spirit to guide your steps based upon that which should reside within you, The words of the Holy Spirit of Truth....as all scriptures are inspired of God (2 Tim. 3:16-17)

I respect the O.T. text very much........it should be studied and understood. The Old Text provides examples for us today.........in righteousness (Heb. 12:1), What happens if we fail to understand the struggle of men such as Job or Elijah (James 5:11, James 5:17) How Christian women should study and understand "Sarah" in order to be good wives (1 Peter 3:6). How to trust God in overcoming wickedness (1 Cor. 10: 1-11) Knowledge of the days, and years wondering in the wilderness serves as a warning to us (Heb. 2:1-3, 10:28-29) How we should attempt to never stray to far away from the Words of the Holy Spirit which should guide us in this struggle called life, the further you stray, the more you pointlessly wonder in this life and the more difficult it becomes to find your truth path once again.

This was an excellent piece of works. I guess you won't be saved by it. Anyways, that brings up a point. James said faith without works is dead. How do you reconcile this with "grace?"

 

[BreezeWood]

I honestly have no clue what you mean to say here. Sorry. The thread is about the rabbinical rules for Shabbat as practiced by the Jews. My belief is that it is God's prerogative to judge what are misdeeds and what are not ...

really, the heavens are going to exact justice you are unwilling to do yourself.

there is deliberation to placate a constituency used for personal gratification over the correctness of the heavenly objective - not to cease working as a merit of itself on a specific meaningless day than that what they have accomplished in a time span is worthy of recognition and for the heavenly creation itself to be kept holy, a sabbath - or suffer the consequences.

your hiding behind the jews and their corrupt religion through wayfarers as moses and abraham as such their false 10 commandments is nothing new than that the tournament those earlier corrupt religious officials will continue to bear till they by the truly religious bring restitution for their crimes.

- the crucifixion of jesus is one of them.

 

[BreezeWood]

... without usurping individual freedoms

and you then exclaim the christian bible - of servitude and denial.

jesus taught liberation theology, self determination you would agree with - where in the christian bible would that be found.

 

[Cougarbear]

and you then exclaim the christian bible - of servitude and denial.

jesus taught liberation theology, self determination you would agree with - where in the christian bible would that be found.

He did not. Your misinterpretation of the Bible is astounding. Yes, self determination. So what?