Zone1 If a follower of Judaism simply cannot keep Shabbat, is there a way to make amends?

[Cougarbear]

Not even a little.

You believe in God but not on God. Please explain the following 3 questions. Be brief:
1. Why am I here?
2. Where did I come from (before life)?
3. Where am I going (after life)?

 

[Cougarbear]

Now look. You abandoned Judaism. Now go on your way as a Christian, but stop scolding loyal Jews that they will go to hell if they don’t do what you do.

You actually abandoned God and went off and built a religion called Judaism.

 

[irosie91]

You actually abandoned God and went off and built a religion called Judaism.

You believe in God but not on God. Please explain the following 3 questions. Be brief:
1. Why am I here?
2. Where did I come from (before life)?
3. Where am I going (after life)?

I am here to entertain myself reading the nonsense of jerks like you.
Before I was a zygote---I was two gametes
After I die I will revert to the elements of which I was formed. I will leave
a will in which I will refute any attempt to posthumously convert me to
moronic moroni-ism

 

[rosends]

You believe in God but not on God. Please explain the following 3 questions. Be brief:
1. Why am I here?
2. Where did I come from (before life)?
3. Where am I going (after life)?

I believe in God. The phrase "believe on God" has no meaning.

1. Probably because you were birthed.
2. Are you asking about where your soul was before it was inserted into your body or where your body was before it existed?
3. Judaism has a very complex ideas about the "afterlife". I can give you references to interesting discussions about the possibilities but as I don't know you and it isn't my function to judge you, I can't predict where your soul will end up.

 

[Cougarbear]

I am here to entertain myself reading the nonsense of jerks like you.
Before I was a zygote---I was two gametes
After I die I will revert to the elements of which I was formed. I will leave
a will in which I will refute any attempt to posthumously convert me to
moronic moroni-ism

Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

That tells me I came from a more exalted place. I existed before conception. So did you. And, I know I’m going to ascend back to God. I’m here to seek and find the truth and receive the saving and exaltation ordinances. Like I said, you believe in God but not on God and deny the power thereof.

 

[Cougarbear]

I believe in God. The phrase "believe on God" has no meaning.

1. Probably because you were birthed.
2. Are you asking about where your soul was before it was inserted into your body or where your body was before it existed?
3. Judaism has a very complex ideas about the "afterlife". I can give you references to interesting discussions about the possibilities but as I don't know you and it isn't my function to judge you, I can't predict where your soul will end up.

What does today’s Jew think about the afterlife? What do they think about before life?

 

[Lisa558]

What does today’s Jew think about the afterlife? What do they think about before life?

The soul returns to Gd.

 

[Cougarbear]

The soul returns to Gd.

What is the soul to you?
My father said there is no afterlife

 

[Lisa558]

What is the soul to you?
My father said there is no afterlife

There is disagreement on the afterlife among Jews. It’s not the overriding issue, as you find with Christians and salvation, etc. The focus is on the here and now, and being mensch or menschete.

 

[Cougarbear]

There is disagreement on the afterlife among Jews. It’s not the overriding issue, as you find with Christians and salvation, etc. The focus is on the here and now, and being mensch or menschete.

There’s disagreement amongst Christianity too.
I agree that our focus should be on what we do while on earth. The reasons from my belief is based on my knowledge of the pre-earth life and the post-earth life.

 

[Lisa558]

There’s disagreement amongst Christianity too.
I agree that our focus should be on what we do while on earth. The reasons from my belief is based on my knowledge of the pre-earth life and the post-earth life.

We finally agree on something, sort of. The focus should be on being a kind person, doing Gd’s mitzvot, and making atonement when we fail short.

Where we differ is that we don’t require another person to atone on our behalf.

 

[rosends]

What does today’s Jew think about the afterlife? What do they think about before life?

Here is a quick blurb from Wikipedia:
"The afterlife is known as olam ha-ba (“world to come", עולם הבא in Hebrew),[3][4] and is related to concepts of Gan Eden, the Heavenly "Garden in Eden", or Paradise, and Gehinnom.[5] The phrase “olam ha-ba” itself does not occur in the Hebrew Bible. The accepted halakha is that it is impossible for living human beings to know what the world to come is like"

for more, try this Olam Ha-Ba: The Afterlife - Judaism 101 (JewFAQ)

or this Afterlife in Judaism

for some thoughts about "pre-life" see here

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/5678558/jewish/When-Does-the-Soul-Enter-the-Body.htm

 

[Cougarbear]

We finally agree on something, sort of. The focus should be on being a kind person, doing Gd’s mitzvot, and making atonement when we fail short.

Where we differ is that we don’t require another person to atone on our behalf.

Well, it still does. Repentance requires asking God for forgiveness as well as the person. Sometimes, that person is no longer accessible to ask. So, I believe that Father in Heaven is Elohim and Jehovah is his Son (So are all of us in the pre-earth life). We pray to the Father in the name of the Son. We believe Jehovah is the one that came off His throne and became Jesus Christ to atone for our sins when we repent.
I take it that you believe as Jehovah Witnesses do that Jehovah is the Father and you pray to the Father Jehovah for forgiveness. So, as you see, we do likewise as we believe the Father and Son are one in purpose (unlike most of Christianity that believes they are the same personage that magically separates into 3 different personages which is confusing).
In any event, this earth life to us is a test from what we covenanted with Father in Heaven before we came to the earth. One is to choose good over evil as much as possible. Another is to seek out to find the truth or the Gospel of Jesus Christ if it exists on the earth when we come. That includes how we treat each other. And, we come to be given a body of flesh and bones so that we have an exalted body of flesh and bones in the resurrection. (There are books written on this)

 

[Foxfyre]

Surely not everyone has Saturdays off from work. Or, they absolutely must refrain from rest for any number of reasons. any practitioners (or simply those in the know) have a recourse plan if you fail to properly rest during Shabbat? Maybe fast, ask for forgiveness etc. Thank you for your time.

I think the rules vary among different variations of Judaism. The list of what strictly orthodox Jews are not allowed to do during Shabbat is long and to non Jews most of it may seem ridiculous. So called 'reformed' Jews may be less strict in following rules they see as decided by men (rabbis) and not God. So it will vary at times. I do think most thoughtful employers do accommodate the religious traditions of their Jewish employees as much as they can.

It isn't always easy for a non Jew to get straight forward answers on religious beliefs from a Jewish person. I was teaching a course on JudeoChristian history one time and a student asked, "How does a Jew know when the Sabbath begins on a cloudy day?" (Shabbat begins at sundown on Friday.) I didn't know and went to some Jewish chatrooms to get some answers. I was considered a malicious Christian troll however and was pretty severely verbally pummeled until I left.

This was on AOL with instant messaging though and one Jewish gentlemen did message me and determined I wasn't a troll. He explained that in his family, Shabbat began when the Sabbath meal was on the table Friday evening. Simple solution.

I wish now I had asked about how Jews should handle being asked or required to go to their jobs on the Sabbath. I didn't think about it at the time.

 

[rosends]

I think the rules vary among different variations of Judaism. The list of what strictly orthodox Jews are not allowed to do during Shabbat is long and to non Jews most of it may seem ridiculous. So called 'reformed' Jews may be less strict in following rules they see as decided by men (rabbis) and not God. So it will vary at times. I do think most thoughtful employers do accommodate the religious traditions of their Jewish employees as much as they can.

It isn't always easy for a non Jew to get straight forward answers on religious beliefs from a Jewish person. I was teaching a course on JudeoChristian history one time and a student asked, "How does a Jew know when the Sabbath begins on a cloudy day?" (Shabbat begins at sundown on Friday.) I didn't know and went to some Jewish chatrooms to get some answers. I was considered a malicious Christian troll however and was pretty severely verbally pummeled until I left.

This was on AOL with instant messaging though and one Jewish gentlemen did message me and determined I wasn't a troll. He explained that in his family, Shabbat began when the Sabbath meal was on the table Friday evening. Simple solution.

I wish now I had asked about how Jews should handle being asked or required to go to their jobs on the Sabbath. I didn't think about it at the time.

I'm sorry that you, when trying to get a reasonable answer to a reasonable question, were unfairly labeled. The answer is (these days) you check a jewish calendar. Candle Lighting Times are available on schedules given out at the beginning of the Jewish year.

Using natural observations is tough on a cloudy day but fortunately, now, we have the technology to compute the proper time, down to the second, for any spot on earth.

 

[Lisa558]

I'm sorry that you, when trying to get a reasonable answer to a reasonable question, were unfairly labeled. The answer is (these days) you check a jewish calendar. Candle Lighting Times are available on schedules given out at the beginning of the Jewish year.

Using natural observations is tough on a cloudy day but fortunately, now, we have the technology to compute the proper time, down to the second, for any spot on earth.

Yes, and I already checked my calendar: Rosh Hashana starts at 7 pm tomorrow night -come rain, sun, or clouds.

I assume I say Shabbos blessing over candles FIRST, and then Rosh Hashana….yes? And then sheheheyanu?

 

[DudleySmith]

Few Jews today have anything to do with the Jewish religion of the OT before Ezra and the 2nd Temple scam. Chrisitans are more Jewish theologically than most modern 'Jews'; that isn't even debatable. Christians don't need to concerns themselves with these counterfeit Jewish cults; they aren't the Jews of the Covenants.

The last great teacher made it very clear, for both 'Jews' and 'Gentiles' re theology::

Galatians 3 NKJV - "O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that yo..."

Read Galatians 3 NKJV in the New King James Bible: "O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified?"

www.biblestudytools.com

23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed.
24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Pretty much settles it for real Jews.

See also this book:

Judaism— Revelation of Moses Or Religion of Men?

Does Judaism with its elaborate code of traditions really represent the way of life God gave through Moses?

www.cbcg.org

... and this one:

Jewish fundamentalism in Israel : Shahak, IsraeÌl : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

xvi, 176 pages ; 21 cm

archive.org

 

[Foxfyre]

I'm sorry that you, when trying to get a reasonable answer to a reasonable question, were unfairly labeled. The answer is (these days) you check a jewish calendar. Candle Lighting Times are available on schedules given out at the beginning of the Jewish year.

Using natural observations is tough on a cloudy day but fortunately, now, we have the technology to compute the proper time, down to the second, for any spot on earth.

Thank you for your kind and thoughtful response. I really didn't feel badly toward those who treated me badly because they had no way to know I was being honestly sincere. To them I was just one of many of cruel or mean spirited people who went into those chatrooms to make trouble or demean or trash their religious beliefs. Too often such malicious people do that with a leading question intended to generate a response they can attack. You see it here on USMB all the time done to both Christians and Jews and probably other faiths as well.

Yes we can get information on sundown on the internet of course. But this question I think assumed everybody doesn't use a computer or know how to access that information and may or may not have access to a Jewish calendar in the home. I thought the kind gentleman who responded to me provided a practical and believable solution.

I thought about the 1979 movie "The Frisco Kid" in which Gene Wilder plays a 19th century rabbi trying to get to his new assignment at a synagogue in San Francisco and is helped by a bank robber, (Harrison Ford), as they cross the country to get there. They are being pursued by a posse and the bank robber is frustrated when the rabbi will not ride his horse on the Sabbath. And he is squinting and looking for the exact time the sun disappears behind the horizon at which time he mounts the horse and they go full steam again. And several of us who had watched that movie wondered how he would have handled it if it was a cloudy day and the exact moment of sundown couldn't be seen.

 

[AsherN]

Yes, and I already checked my calendar: Rosh Hashana starts at 7 pm tomorrow night -come rain, sun, or clouds.

I assume I say Shabbos blessing over candles FIRST, and then Rosh Hashana….yes? And then sheheheyanu?

Same candles. Blessing chanes to ner shel yom tov v'shabbat

 

[AsherN]

Thank you for your kind and thoughtful response. I really didn't feel badly toward those who treated me badly because they had no way to know I was being honestly sincere. To them I was just one of many of cruel or mean spirited people who went into those chatrooms to make trouble or demean or trash their religious beliefs. Too often such malicious people do that with a leading question intended to generate a response they can attack. You see it here on USMB all the time done to both Christians and Jews and probably other faiths as well.

Yes we can get information on sundown on the internet of course. But this question I think assumed everybody doesn't use a computer or know how to access that information and may or may not have access to a Jewish calendar in the home. I thought the kind gentleman who responded to me provided a practical and believable solution.

I thought about the 1979 movie "The Frisco Kid" in which Gene Wilder plays a 19th century rabbi trying to get to his new assignment at a synagogue in San Francisco and is helped by a bank robber, (Harrison Ford), as they cross the country to get there. They are being pursued by a posse and the bank robber is frustrated when the rabbi will not ride his horse on the Sabbath. And he is squinting and looking for the exact time the sun disappears behind the horizon at which time he mounts the horse and they go full steam again. And several of us who had watched that movie wondered how he would have handled it if it was a cloudy day and the exact moment of sundown couldn't be seen.

It's a both simple and complex answer. Shabbat starts at sundown Friday until it is dark enough to see 3 starts Saturday. Candle lighting times on Jewish calendars are 18 minutes before sundown to 1 hour after. Absent those, Shabbat is the period of time between lighting candles on Friday night and Havdalah on Saturday night.