I will not Bow!

[Phoenall]

"...Former??? When did that legal status change?"

The moment that the Jews took possession of the land, and passed statutes recognizing the change in ownership.

Israeli local law trumps international law?

What International Law applies ?

 

[Phoenall]

Israeli local law trumps international law?

Yes.

Just as United States Law trumps International Law.

Just as Reality trumps Scholastic Fantasy.

The US can pass laws for Brazil?

I don't think that would jive with international law.

If Brazil is in the US then YES

 

[Phoenall]

The US can pass laws for Brazil?

I don't think that would jive with international law.

No.

The US cannot pass laws for Brazil.

But it CAN pass and enforce aws within its own borders that trump International Law.

After determining for itself what its borders should be.

Just as Israel has done.

Oh really. Where are Israel's self defined borders?

BTW, I should not have said Brazil. Hawaii is a much better example. Hawaii was listed at the UN as a non self governing territory under US management. The US wanted to annex this land for its 50th state.

It was illegal for the US to annex this land without the approval of the indigenous population. They had to hold a referendum to get the approval of the people in order to annex that land even though they were not a sovereign state.

Was there a referendum for the Palestinians to approve the annexation of Palestinian territory by Israel?

Was there one for the Jews to approve the annexation of their property by the arab league ?..............................IF NOT WHY NOT, and why did the UN allow Jordan to acquire Jewish land by force when it was plainly against the UN charter.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, we can address this (again).


(COMMENT)

This is a "regional name" much like "Appalachia" is a regional name in the US. Even after all this time, still within the region, there are such things. Right next door to the former Mandate of Palestine is Saudi Arabia; I'll use it as an example as it still uses the ancient administrative regional names.



The name of "Palestine" was the undefined Ottoman Region name handed down through the Treaty of Sevres. Like the other ancient Arab Governorates (examples cited above), the boundaries of Palestine do not necessarily coincide with region boundaries. The Administrative Region of Palestine covered a territory that stretched all the way to Mesopotamia (present day Iraq). You will also note that most of the boundaries in the larger Middle East and Persian Gulf region, is made of "straight line segments." This is because they come from surveys conducted by the European Powers.




(COMMENT)

Two facts impact this question. First, one has to understand who the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) was in the period covering the development of the November 1947 Recommendations and subsequent Resolution [GA/RES/181(II)].



In defiance of General Assembly Resolution 181(II), the AHC (a puppet regime of the Arab League) stated: "Arabs claim to have authority over all the area of Palestine as being the political representative of the overwhelming majority of the population. They regard Palestine a one unit. All forces that oppose majority wherever they may be are regarded as unlawful."

I do not really have to answer the question, the Arab League, through the AHC Puppet, answers the question.

Most Respectfully,
R

Holy verbosity, Batman! Could you condense all that down to something more relative to my post?

It could not be any clearer than it is, the land of Palestine is an undefined area in the M.E. that is without borders or national identity. It extends over Egypt, Saudi, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon in part or whole. This land was given in mandate to two nations to administer, namely Britain and France. France created Lebanon, Iraq and syria on their portion of the mandate while Britain created syria trans Jordan and Israel on theirs.

You are basing your conclusion on false premise. Therefore you are coming to a false conclusion.

In international law, when a state is dissolved and new states are established, “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of nationality.”5 As a rule, therefore, citizens of the former state should automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state in which they had already been residing.

In a broader international context, the “Nationality law… showed that the Palestinians formed a nation, and that Palestine was a State, though provisionally under guardianship.”90 The inclusion of Palestinian nationality in the text of the Palestine Mandate was the first step towards an international recognition of the Palestinian people as distinct from the Ottoman people and other peoples. Palestinian nationality, like any other nationality, constitutes the formula by which a certain group of individuals are being legally connected and enabled to form the people element of the state.91

Nationality constitutes a legal bond that connects individuals with a specific territory, making them citizens of that territory. It is therefore imperative to examine the boundaries of Palestine in order to define the piece of land on which Palestinian nationality was established.

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

 

[toastman]

Holy verbosity, Batman! Could you condense all that down to something more relative to my post?

It could not be any clearer than it is, the land of Palestine is an undefined area in the M.E. that is without borders or national identity. It extends over Egypt, Saudi, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon in part or whole. This land was given in mandate to two nations to administer, namely Britain and France. France created Lebanon, Iraq and syria on their portion of the mandate while Britain created syria trans Jordan and Israel on theirs.

You are basing your conclusion on false premise. Therefore you are coming to a false conclusion.

In international law, when a state is dissolved and new states are established, “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of nationality.”5 As a rule, therefore, citizens of the former state should automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state in which they had already been residing.

In a broader international context, the “Nationality law… showed that the Palestinians formed a nation, and that Palestine was a State, though provisionally under guardianship.”90 The inclusion of Palestinian nationality in the text of the Palestine Mandate was the first step towards an international recognition of the Palestinian people as distinct from the Ottoman people and other peoples. Palestinian nationality, like any other nationality, constitutes the formula by which a certain group of individuals are being legally connected and enabled to form the people element of the state.91

Nationality constitutes a legal bond that connects individuals with a specific territory, making them citizens of that territory. It is therefore imperative to examine the boundaries of Palestine in order to define the piece of land on which Palestinian nationality was established.

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

This has nothing to do with the name 'Palestine'

 

[P F Tinmore]

It could not be any clearer than it is, the land of Palestine is an undefined area in the M.E. that is without borders or national identity. It extends over Egypt, Saudi, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon in part or whole. This land was given in mandate to two nations to administer, namely Britain and France. France created Lebanon, Iraq and syria on their portion of the mandate while Britain created syria trans Jordan and Israel on theirs.

You are basing your conclusion on false premise. Therefore you are coming to a false conclusion.

In international law, when a state is dissolved and new states are established, “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of nationality.”5 As a rule, therefore, citizens of the former state should automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state in which they had already been residing.

In a broader international context, the “Nationality law… showed that the Palestinians formed a nation, and that Palestine was a State, though provisionally under guardianship.”90 The inclusion of Palestinian nationality in the text of the Palestine Mandate was the first step towards an international recognition of the Palestinian people as distinct from the Ottoman people and other peoples. Palestinian nationality, like any other nationality, constitutes the formula by which a certain group of individuals are being legally connected and enabled to form the people element of the state.91

Nationality constitutes a legal bond that connects individuals with a specific territory, making them citizens of that territory. It is therefore imperative to examine the boundaries of Palestine in order to define the piece of land on which Palestinian nationality was established.

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

This has nothing to do with the name 'Palestine'

A rose by any other name...

 

[toastman]

I meant to say it has nothing to do with the origin of the name Palestine

 

[P F Tinmore]

I meant to say it has nothing to do with the origin of the name Palestine

And a name is relevant how? If it was called Bologna, how would that matter?

 

[Phoenall]

Holy verbosity, Batman! Could you condense all that down to something more relative to my post?

It could not be any clearer than it is, the land of Palestine is an undefined area in the M.E. that is without borders or national identity. It extends over Egypt, Saudi, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon in part or whole. This land was given in mandate to two nations to administer, namely Britain and France. France created Lebanon, Iraq and syria on their portion of the mandate while Britain created syria trans Jordan and Israel on theirs.

You are basing your conclusion on false premise. Therefore you are coming to a false conclusion.

In international law, when a state is dissolved and new states are established, “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of nationality.”5 As a rule, therefore, citizens of the former state should automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state in which they had already been residing.

In a broader international context, the “Nationality law… showed that the Palestinians formed a nation, and that Palestine was a State, though provisionally under guardianship.”90 The inclusion of Palestinian nationality in the text of the Palestine Mandate was the first step towards an international recognition of the Palestinian people as distinct from the Ottoman people and other peoples. Palestinian nationality, like any other nationality, constitutes the formula by which a certain group of individuals are being legally connected and enabled to form the people element of the state.91

Nationality constitutes a legal bond that connects individuals with a specific territory, making them citizens of that territory. It is therefore imperative to examine the boundaries of Palestine in order to define the piece of land on which Palestinian nationality was established.

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

NO! I am basing my words on the HISTORY and GEOGRAPHY of the area. There has never been a nation of Palestine, and the way things are going there never will be. What you define as the international borders of Palestine are no such thing as historically Palestine extended outside these borders, you are fooled by the international borders of Egypt, Saudi, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon. These International borders delineate the borders of these countries only they don't delineate the borders of Palestine. That has to come about through mutual agreement and treaty.

For the record Palestine was under mandate or control it was not under guardianship. If you persist in your false claims then we will need to let the UN know that Iraq, Syria, Jordan and Saudi will have to be disbanded and the land given to the P.A.

 

[Phoenall]

It could not be any clearer than it is, the land of Palestine is an undefined area in the M.E. that is without borders or national identity. It extends over Egypt, Saudi, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon in part or whole. This land was given in mandate to two nations to administer, namely Britain and France. France created Lebanon, Iraq and syria on their portion of the mandate while Britain created syria trans Jordan and Israel on theirs.

You are basing your conclusion on false premise. Therefore you are coming to a false conclusion.

In international law, when a state is dissolved and new states are established, “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of nationality.”5 As a rule, therefore, citizens of the former state should automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state in which they had already been residing.

In a broader international context, the “Nationality law… showed that the Palestinians formed a nation, and that Palestine was a State, though provisionally under guardianship.”90 The inclusion of Palestinian nationality in the text of the Palestine Mandate was the first step towards an international recognition of the Palestinian people as distinct from the Ottoman people and other peoples. Palestinian nationality, like any other nationality, constitutes the formula by which a certain group of individuals are being legally connected and enabled to form the people element of the state.91

Nationality constitutes a legal bond that connects individuals with a specific territory, making them citizens of that territory. It is therefore imperative to examine the boundaries of Palestine in order to define the piece of land on which Palestinian nationality was established.

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

This has nothing to do with the name 'Palestine'

Every time he posts this crap he destroys his own argument as Palestine was never a state to be dissolved, it was part of the Ottoman Empire. If what he says is correct then the Palestinians are British and French as they are the states that took over the helm.

 

[Phoenall]

You are basing your conclusion on false premise. Therefore you are coming to a false conclusion.

This has nothing to do with the name 'Palestine'

A rose by any other name...

Let me see if I understand your thinking correctly the Ottoman empire was disnabded and along with it the muslims nationality for those living in Palestine. The British and French took over the reigns meaning that the muslims living in Palestine then become British and French citizens, only limited to what rights the new rulers extend to them.
So they have no claim to the land of Palestine in view of your source. That has cleared it up nicely. NO PALESTINE AND NO PALESTINIANS

 

[Phoenall]

I meant to say it has nothing to do with the origin of the name Palestine

And a name is relevant how? If it was called Bologna, how would that matter?

It would be in Spain, and the muslims would adorn the pikes on the city walls

 

[toastman]

I meant to say it has nothing to do with the origin of the name Palestine

And a name is relevant how? If it was called Bologna, how would that matter?

YOU asked the question, FFS !!

You asked Tinmore why is it called the 'Palestine' Mandate. To answer that question, don't you think the origin of the name needs to be brought up??

 

[ForeverYoung436]

I meant to say it has nothing to do with the origin of the name Palestine

And a name is relevant how? If it was called Bologna, how would that matter?

YOU asked the question, FFS !!

You asked Tinmore why is it called the 'Palestine' Mandate. To answer that question, don't you think the origin of the name needs to be brought up??

After the Romans put down a third rebellion by the Jews and exiled many of them, they renamed the area Palestine after the Philistines, a people that no longer existed. They did this spitefully, to rid Judea of any Jewish connection.

 

[RoccoR]

ForeverYoung436, toastman, P F Tinmore, et al,

I always shy away from using this word, either as a noun or adjective:

And a name is relevant how? If it was called Bologna, how would that matter?

YOU asked the question, FFS !!

You asked Tinmore why is it called the 'Palestine' Mandate. To answer that question, don't you think the origin of the name needs to be brought up??

After the Romans put down a third rebellion by the Jews and exiled many of them, they renamed the area Palestine after the Philistines, a people that no longer existed. They did this spitefully, to rid Judea of any Jewish connection.

(OBSERVATION)

(fĭl'ĭ-stēn', fĭ-lĭs'tĭn, -tēn') pronunciation

n.
A member of an Aegean people who settled ancient Philistia around the 12th century B.C.

A smug, ignorant, especially middle-class person who is regarded as being indifferent or antagonistic to artistic and cultural values.
One who lacks knowledge in a specific area.

adj.
Of or relating to ancient Philistia.
often philistine Boorish; barbarous: "our plastic, violent culture, with its philistine tastes and hunger for novelty" (Lloyd Rose).

[From Middle English Philistines, Philistines, from Late Latin Philistīnī, from Greek Philistīnoi, from Hebrew Pəlištîm, from Pəlešet, Philistia.]

WORD HISTORY

It has never been good to be a Philistine. In the Bible Samson, Saul, and David helped bring the Philistines into prominence because they were such prominent opponents.

Though the Philistines have long since disappeared, their name has lived on in the Hebrew Scriptures. The English name for them, Philistines, which goes back through Late Latin and Greek to Hebrew, is first found in Middle English, where Philistiens, the ancestor of our word, is recorded in a work composed before 1325. Beginning in the 17th century philistine was used as a common noun, usually in the plural, to refer to various groups considered the enemy, such as literary critics. In Germany in the same century it is said that in a memorial at Jena for a student killed in a town-gown quarrel, the minister preached a sermon from the text "Philister über dir Simson! [The Philistines be upon thee, Samson!]," the words of Delilah to Samson after she attempted to render him powerless before his Philistine enemies. From this usage it is said that German students came to use Philister, the German equivalent of Philistine, to denote nonstudents and hence uncultured or materialistic people. Both usages were picked up in English in the early 19th century.​

Read more: Philistine: Definition, Synonyms from Answers.com

(COMMENT)

This word nearly always starts a dispute.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

This has nothing to do with the name 'Palestine'

A rose by any other name...

Let me see if I understand your thinking correctly the Ottoman empire was disnabded and along with it the muslims nationality for those living in Palestine. The British and French took over the reigns meaning that the muslims living in Palestine then become British and French citizens, only limited to what rights the new rulers extend to them.
So they have no claim to the land of Palestine in view of your source. That has cleared it up nicely. NO PALESTINE AND NO PALESTINIANS

Not true.

With regard to nationality of the inhabitants of mandated territories, in general, the Council of the League of Nations adopted the following resolution on 23 April 1923:

“(1) The status of the native inhabitants of a Mandated territory is distinct from that of the nationals of the Mandatory Power....
(2) The native inhabitants of a Mandated territory are not invested with the nationality of the Mandatory Power by means of the protection extended to them…”92

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

Where do you get all your misinformation anyway?

Just curious.

 

[toastman]

A rose by any other name...

Let me see if I understand your thinking correctly the Ottoman empire was disnabded and along with it the muslims nationality for those living in Palestine. The British and French took over the reigns meaning that the muslims living in Palestine then become British and French citizens, only limited to what rights the new rulers extend to them.
So they have no claim to the land of Palestine in view of your source. That has cleared it up nicely. NO PALESTINE AND NO PALESTINIANS

Not true.

With regard to nationality of the inhabitants of mandated territories, in general, the Council of the League of Nations adopted the following resolution on 23 April 1923:

“(1) The status of the native inhabitants of a Mandated territory is distinct from that of the nationals of the Mandatory Power....
(2) The native inhabitants of a Mandated territory are not invested with the nationality of the Mandatory Power by means of the protection extended to them…”92

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

Where do you get all your misinformation anyway?

Just curious.

I've asked you that question concerning the 1948 war and the events prior and following it. I still havent gotten a link

 

[P F Tinmore]

Let me see if I understand your thinking correctly the Ottoman empire was disnabded and along with it the muslims nationality for those living in Palestine. The British and French took over the reigns meaning that the muslims living in Palestine then become British and French citizens, only limited to what rights the new rulers extend to them.
So they have no claim to the land of Palestine in view of your source. That has cleared it up nicely. NO PALESTINE AND NO PALESTINIANS

Not true.

With regard to nationality of the inhabitants of mandated territories, in general, the Council of the League of Nations adopted the following resolution on 23 April 1923:

“(1) The status of the native inhabitants of a Mandated territory is distinct from that of the nationals of the Mandatory Power....
(2) The native inhabitants of a Mandated territory are not invested with the nationality of the Mandatory Power by means of the protection extended to them…”92

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

Where do you get all your misinformation anyway?

Just curious.

I've asked you that question concerning the 1948 war and the events prior and following it. I still havent gotten a link

You want to know where I got my information?

UN documents
International law, treaties
Avalon Project, Yale
Palestine Encyclopedia
Israel, MFA
Wikipedia
1948.org.uk
Jewish Virtual Library
Palestine Remembered
Bennie Morris
Ilan Pappe
Etc.

Is this what you wanted?

 

[Phoenall]

A rose by any other name...

Let me see if I understand your thinking correctly the Ottoman empire was disnabded and along with it the muslims nationality for those living in Palestine. The British and French took over the reigns meaning that the muslims living in Palestine then become British and French citizens, only limited to what rights the new rulers extend to them.
So they have no claim to the land of Palestine in view of your source. That has cleared it up nicely. NO PALESTINE AND NO PALESTINIANS

Not true.

With regard to nationality of the inhabitants of mandated territories, in general, the Council of the League of Nations adopted the following resolution on 23 April 1923:

“(1) The status of the native inhabitants of a Mandated territory is distinct from that of the nationals of the Mandatory Power....
(2) The native inhabitants of a Mandated territory are not invested with the nationality of the Mandatory Power by means of the protection extended to them…”92

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

Where do you get all your misinformation anyway?

Just curious.

Your own post and the cut and paste you relied on to show that you were right and the world was wrong.

Here it is and as I said they lost Ottoman nationality and gained limited British and French as they were the successive states

In international law, when a state is dissolved and new states are established, “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of nationality.”5 As a rule, therefore, citizens of the former state should automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state in which they had already been residing.
The operative word is SOVERIEGNTY. They could not take on Jordanian nationality as that was not formed yet, nor could they take on Palestinian nationality for the same reason so they became limited British and French nationals

 

[Phoenall]

Not true.



Where do you get all your misinformation anyway?

Just curious.

I've asked you that question concerning the 1948 war and the events prior and following it. I still havent gotten a link

You want to know where I got my information?

UN documents
International law, treaties
Avalon Project, Yale
Palestine Encyclopedia
Israel, MFA
Wikipedia
1948.org.uk
Jewish Virtual Library
Palestine Remembered
Bennie Morris
Ilan Pappe
Etc.

Is this what you wanted?

And you cherrypick only the parts that support your personal POV and ride them into the ground, when shown that you are wrong you quickly jump ship and bring up the next snippet of disinformation.
Now once and for all what was the capital city of Palestine, what was its currency called, who have been its leaders over the last 2,000 years, what did its original flag look like, what is its national symbol and finally who recognised its right to exist as a nation.