P F Tinmore
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Mandates are not successor states. they are assigned to successor states. The people under mandate do not take on the nationality or citizenship of the mandatory.
I will not Bow!
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Mandates are not successor states. they are assigned to successor states. The people under mandate do not take on the nationality or citizenship of the mandatory.
Urbanguerrilla
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- Aug 27, 2010
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Cooperation with the Nazi Intelligence Services
During the first days of fascist domination in Germany, the Zionists held a direct line to the fascist repression apparatus which developed into loose collaboration between the Zionist leadership and the terror organizations of the Nazi Reich (the Gestapo, SS, etc). Before 1933, the Zionist official, Leo Plaut, already "had a connection" with the political police and with the police official Oberregierungsrat Rudolf Diels (supposedly a schoolfriend of Plaut). When Diels was first appointed chief of the secret police in 1933, he retained his connection with Plaut. "Indeed Plaut even had the secret telephone number of Diels and could call him anytime."58 One can only speculate about the details of these contacts because the documents regarding them are kept under lock and key at the Yad-Vashem archives in Jerusalem. However, it is to be supposed that it was through these contacts that a meeting was arranged between the then Prussian Prime Minister Hermann Goering (later sentenced to death by the Nuremberg International Tribunal as a war criminal) and the leaders of German Jewish organizations. The meeting took place on March 26, 1933. Among the representatives of the Zionists taking part was the official, Kurt Blumenfeld, but he was silent about this episode in his memoirs.59
https://workspaces.acrobat.com/app.html#d=kvXmy4Qvmo1Cfwo5qYbT5A
Boo hoo, it looks like we have another poster here who is angry that the Jews supplied the Nazis with some equipment in exchange for some Jews. No doubt this poster also would have like to have seen those Jews sent to the concentration camps. Maybe he would be a good candidate to join the Golden Dawn group in Greece. They need people like him.
Lol, shoot the messenger and throw a bit of mud, dont address the facts
So when did Palestine become a fully fledged legally recognised sovereign nation then, because the lawmakers don't know and the arab league don't know and the world don't know when this miracle happened.
P F Tinmore
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All that is irrelevant. You are getting the procedures out or order.
Palestine's borders were defined by international, post war treaties.
When the Ottoman Empire officially came to an end on August 6, 1924 those became the recognized international borders of Palestine.
All of the people whose normal residence was inside those borders at that time became Palestinian nationals with Palestinian citizenship.
As a nation of people inside a defined territory they had the inherent right to self determination without external interference.
The things you mentioned are products of exercising the right to self determination not prerequisites.
External interference to the right to self determination is a crime under international law.
RoccoR
Gold Member
P F Tinmore, et al,
Oh, for heaven's sake!
1) In 1924, the international borders in the region were, whatever the Allied Powers decided they would be.
Going chronologically:
2) In 1924, Nationality and Citizenship of both the indigenous and immigrant populations were covered in Articles 4, 7 and 8 of the Mandate. Palestine was a Class "A" Mandate Territory under international law, under the authority of the treaty and League of Nations.
3) The mission of the Mandatory was to develop the capacity in the population (indigenous and immigrant) to govern themselves, and in establishing their economic systems and social and other institutions on a more secure footing in order to fit them to take their position as independent nations; - and - apply the policy defined by the "Balfour Declaration" of November 2nd, 1917.
4) In a Class "A" Mandate, an "external interference" would be anything influence injected into the administration of the territory other than that of the Mandatory having full administrative and legislative powers.
5) In 1924, The "right of self-determination" was whatever the Mandatory and League of Nations said the right was. "The universal realization of the right of peoples to self determination enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations and embodied in the International Covenants on Human Rights, as well as in the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples contained in General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960, (A/RES/49/148 94th plenary meeting 23 December 1994).
6) Yes, the "external interference" of the Arab League to the Jewish right to self-determination is illegal. It was, by their own admission, acts of foreign military
intervention, aggression and occupation, to interfere with the Implementation by the Security Council (actioned by the UNPC) of the final steps to independence of the Jewish People, and the suppression of their right to self-determination as afforded to them through resolution by the General Assembly.
Most Respectfully,
R
Oh, for heaven's sake!
(COMMENT)
1) In 1924, the international borders in the region were, whatever the Allied Powers decided they would be.
Going chronologically:
- Egypt: Independence - 28 February 1922 (from UK protectorate status; the revolution that began on 23 July 1952 led to a republic being declared on 18 June 1953 and all British troops withdrawn on 18 June 1956)
- Lebanon: Independence - 22 November 1943 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)
- Syria: Independence - 17 April 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)
- Jordan: Independence - 25 May 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
- Israel: Independence - Midnight-14/15 May 1948 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
2) In 1924, Nationality and Citizenship of both the indigenous and immigrant populations were covered in Articles 4, 7 and 8 of the Mandate. Palestine was a Class "A" Mandate Territory under international law, under the authority of the treaty and League of Nations.
3) The mission of the Mandatory was to develop the capacity in the population (indigenous and immigrant) to govern themselves, and in establishing their economic systems and social and other institutions on a more secure footing in order to fit them to take their position as independent nations; - and - apply the policy defined by the "Balfour Declaration" of November 2nd, 1917.
4) In a Class "A" Mandate, an "external interference" would be anything influence injected into the administration of the territory other than that of the Mandatory having full administrative and legislative powers.
5) In 1924, The "right of self-determination" was whatever the Mandatory and League of Nations said the right was. "The universal realization of the right of peoples to self determination enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations and embodied in the International Covenants on Human Rights, as well as in the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples contained in General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960, (A/RES/49/148 94th plenary meeting 23 December 1994).
6) Yes, the "external interference" of the Arab League to the Jewish right to self-determination is illegal. It was, by their own admission, acts of foreign military
intervention, aggression and occupation, to interfere with the Implementation by the Security Council (actioned by the UNPC) of the final steps to independence of the Jewish People, and the suppression of their right to self-determination as afforded to them through resolution by the General Assembly.
Most Respectfully,
R
No they were not as Palestine could not have any borders, what you are falling foul of is the borders of other countries set in stone are not the same thing as the borders of the area they surround.
When the ottoman empire came to an end Palestine the area took in all of trans Jordan part of Saudi, part of Egypt, part of Lebanon and part of Syria. You are trying to mix the 1919 extent of the Ottoman empire with the as yet to be proposed partition plan of 1948. in a futile attempt at fooling people.
How could they when there was no nation of Palestine, and the nations that took over were Britain and France. Even the passports for the residents of the British mandate for Palestine said they were British subjects.
What defined territory would that be then as Palestine was never defined, so once again bringing us back to the nation being Britain or France.
The things I mention are all signs of being a nation, without any of them being in place then there was no nation of Palestine. As an example the British mandate issued passports, stamps and currency for the mandate for Palestine which were drawn on British and Jewish banks. At no time were they drawn on muslim banks as they worked on a different system.
So the external influence by the arab league was illegal and thus negates the attempt to claim Palestine as a nation.
Every argument you use is defeated by the one preceding it and shows that you are not looking at the matter in a critical manner. You cherrypick the part you see that supports your POV while overlooking the whole that defeats your POV.
P F Tinmore
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Phoenall said:
Could you prove that statement like a link or something?
P F Tinmore
Diamond Member
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Phoenall said:
Post something that proves otherwise.
P F Tinmore
Diamond Member
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P F Tinmore, et al,
Oh, for heaven's sake!
(COMMENT)
1) In 1924, the international borders in the region were, whatever the Allied Powers decided they would be.
Going chronologically:
- Egypt: Independence - 28 February 1922 (from UK protectorate status; the revolution that began on 23 July 1952 led to a republic being declared on 18 June 1953 and all British troops withdrawn on 18 June 1956)
- Lebanon: Independence - 22 November 1943 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)
- Syria: Independence - 17 April 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)
- Jordan: Independence - 25 May 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
- Israel: Independence - Midnight-14/15 May 1948 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
2) In 1924, Nationality and Citizenship of both the indigenous and immigrant populations were covered in Articles 4, 7 and 8 of the Mandate. Palestine was a Class "A" Mandate Territory under international law, under the authority of the treaty and League of Nations.
3) The mission of the Mandatory was to develop the capacity in the population (indigenous and immigrant) to govern themselves, and in establishing their economic systems and social and other institutions on a more secure footing in order to fit them to take their position as independent nations; - and - apply the policy defined by the "Balfour Declaration" of November 2nd, 1917.
4) In a Class "A" Mandate, an "external interference" would be anything influence injected into the administration of the territory other than that of the Mandatory having full administrative and legislative powers.
5) In 1924, The "right of self-determination" was whatever the Mandatory and League of Nations said the right was. "The universal realization of the right of peoples to self determination enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations and embodied in the International Covenants on Human Rights, as well as in the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples contained in General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960, (A/RES/49/148 94th plenary meeting 23 December 1994).
6) Yes, the "external interference" of the Arab League to the Jewish right to self-determination is illegal. It was, by their own admission, acts of foreign military
intervention, aggression and occupation, to interfere with the Implementation by the Security Council (actioned by the UNPC) of the final steps to independence of the Jewish People, and the suppression of their right to self-determination as afforded to them through resolution by the General Assembly.
Most Respectfully,
R
You are grasping at straws.
What does all that have to do with my post? If you have an issue with anything I said, pull it out and prove it wrong.
Hossfly
ZIONIST
You wouldn't believe any link. Besides, what he is saying about the borders is common sense. Get a clue.
RoccoR
Gold Member
P F Tinmore, et al,
Look again.
There are no straws here. It addresses each of the five unsupported issues you raise.
Most Respectfully,
R
Look again.
(COMMENT)P F Tinmore, et al,
Oh, for heaven's sake!
(COMMENT)
1) In 1924, the international borders in the region were, whatever the Allied Powers decided they would be.
Going chronologically:
- Egypt: Independence - 28 February 1922 (from UK protectorate status; the revolution that began on 23 July 1952 led to a republic being declared on 18 June 1953 and all British troops withdrawn on 18 June 1956)
- Lebanon: Independence - 22 November 1943 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)
- Syria: Independence - 17 April 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)
- Jordan: Independence - 25 May 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
- Israel: Independence - Midnight-14/15 May 1948 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
2) In 1924, Nationality and Citizenship of both the indigenous and immigrant populations were covered in Articles 4, 7 and 8 of the Mandate. Palestine was a Class "A" Mandate Territory under international law, under the authority of the treaty and League of Nations.
3) The mission of the Mandatory was to develop the capacity in the population (indigenous and immigrant) to govern themselves, and in establishing their economic systems and social and other institutions on a more secure footing in order to fit them to take their position as independent nations; - and - apply the policy defined by the "Balfour Declaration" of November 2nd, 1917.
4) In a Class "A" Mandate, an "external interference" would be anything influence injected into the administration of the territory other than that of the Mandatory having full administrative and legislative powers.
5) In 1924, The "right of self-determination" was whatever the Mandatory and League of Nations said the right was. "The universal realization of the right of peoples to self determination enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations and embodied in the International Covenants on Human Rights, as well as in the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples contained in General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960, (A/RES/49/148 94th plenary meeting 23 December 1994).
6) Yes, the "external interference" of the Arab League to the Jewish right to self-determination is illegal. It was, by their own admission, acts of foreign military
intervention, aggression and occupation, to interfere with the Implementation by the Security Council (actioned by the UNPC) of the final steps to independence of the Jewish People, and the suppression of their right to self-determination as afforded to them through resolution by the General Assembly.
Most Respectfully,
R
You are grasping at straws.
What does all that have to do with my post? If you have an issue with anything I said, pull it out and prove it wrong.
There are no straws here. It addresses each of the five unsupported issues you raise.
Most Respectfully,
R
P F Tinmore
Diamond Member
- Dec 6, 2009
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P F Tinmore, et al,
Look again.
(COMMENT)P F Tinmore, et al,
Oh, for heaven's sake!
(COMMENT)
1) In 1924, the international borders in the region were, whatever the Allied Powers decided they would be.
Going chronologically:
- Egypt: Independence - 28 February 1922 (from UK protectorate status; the revolution that began on 23 July 1952 led to a republic being declared on 18 June 1953 and all British troops withdrawn on 18 June 1956)
- Lebanon: Independence - 22 November 1943 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)
- Syria: Independence - 17 April 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)
- Jordan: Independence - 25 May 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
- Israel: Independence - Midnight-14/15 May 1948 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
2) In 1924, Nationality and Citizenship of both the indigenous and immigrant populations were covered in Articles 4, 7 and 8 of the Mandate. Palestine was a Class "A" Mandate Territory under international law, under the authority of the treaty and League of Nations.
3) The mission of the Mandatory was to develop the capacity in the population (indigenous and immigrant) to govern themselves, and in establishing their economic systems and social and other institutions on a more secure footing in order to fit them to take their position as independent nations; - and - apply the policy defined by the "Balfour Declaration" of November 2nd, 1917.
4) In a Class "A" Mandate, an "external interference" would be anything influence injected into the administration of the territory other than that of the Mandatory having full administrative and legislative powers.
5) In 1924, The "right of self-determination" was whatever the Mandatory and League of Nations said the right was. "The universal realization of the right of peoples to self determination enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations and embodied in the International Covenants on Human Rights, as well as in the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples contained in General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960, (A/RES/49/148 94th plenary meeting 23 December 1994).
6) Yes, the "external interference" of the Arab League to the Jewish right to self-determination is illegal. It was, by their own admission, acts of foreign military
intervention, aggression and occupation, to interfere with the Implementation by the Security Council (actioned by the UNPC) of the final steps to independence of the Jewish People, and the suppression of their right to self-determination as afforded to them through resolution by the General Assembly.
Most Respectfully,
R
You are grasping at straws.
What does all that have to do with my post? If you have an issue with anything I said, pull it out and prove it wrong.
There are no straws here. It addresses each of the five unsupported issues you raise.
Most Respectfully,
R
OK, but the mandate was not to, and did not, create a Jewish state.
Hossfly
ZIONIST
Tinmore, we've heard all your feeble rejoinders at least a thousand times. Every argument you have ever had has been highlighted with sound, reasonable explanation and solid proof. How about leaving the 19th and 20th centuries, face the fact that the old edicts and proclamations are now historical fiction. Get it in gear.
P F Tinmore
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It is the 21st century and Palestinian rights are still being violated.
ForeverYoung436
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Yes, let's talk about what's happening in the here and now. For instance, last week Britain, France, Italy, and Spain recalled their Israeli ambassadors to protest the settlements on the West Bank. Was this action justified? Netanyahu was furious and called the Europeans hypocrites. I agree with that.
P F Tinmore
Diamond Member
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It is a good start. The settlements are illegal. People should be in jail.
Ten years ago they would be too afraid to say anything. It is good to see that the world is changing.
ForeverYoung436
Gold Member
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The settlements are in disputed territory, not occupied territory. And Netanyahu made the point that the Israelis are admonished but not the Palestinians. That isn't fair.
I simply asked for a link. All I'm getting is song and dance. You rarely back up your claims, and even when you do, you bring up a link that doesn't even come close to proving your statement
P F Tinmore, et al,
Oh, for heaven's sake!
(COMMENT)
1) In 1924, the international borders in the region were, whatever the Allied Powers decided they would be.
Going chronologically:
- Egypt: Independence - 28 February 1922 (from UK protectorate status; the revolution that began on 23 July 1952 led to a republic being declared on 18 June 1953 and all British troops withdrawn on 18 June 1956)
- Lebanon: Independence - 22 November 1943 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)
- Syria: Independence - 17 April 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)
- Jordan: Independence - 25 May 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
- Israel: Independence - Midnight-14/15 May 1948 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
2) In 1924, Nationality and Citizenship of both the indigenous and immigrant populations were covered in Articles 4, 7 and 8 of the Mandate. Palestine was a Class "A" Mandate Territory under international law, under the authority of the treaty and League of Nations.
3) The mission of the Mandatory was to develop the capacity in the population (indigenous and immigrant) to govern themselves, and in establishing their economic systems and social and other institutions on a more secure footing in order to fit them to take their position as independent nations; - and - apply the policy defined by the "Balfour Declaration" of November 2nd, 1917.
4) In a Class "A" Mandate, an "external interference" would be anything influence injected into the administration of the territory other than that of the Mandatory having full administrative and legislative powers.
5) In 1924, The "right of self-determination" was whatever the Mandatory and League of Nations said the right was. "The universal realization of the right of peoples to self determination enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations and embodied in the International Covenants on Human Rights, as well as in the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples contained in General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960, (A/RES/49/148 94th plenary meeting 23 December 1994).
6) Yes, the "external interference" of the Arab League to the Jewish right to self-determination is illegal. It was, by their own admission, acts of foreign military
intervention, aggression and occupation, to interfere with the Implementation by the Security Council (actioned by the UNPC) of the final steps to independence of the Jewish People, and the suppression of their right to self-determination as afforded to them through resolution by the General Assembly.
Most Respectfully,
R
You are grasping at straws.
What does all that have to do with my post? If you have an issue with anything I said, pull it out and prove it wrong.
HUH??? He just addressed every point in your post! And he backed it up with links. Where are your links from that post ????
Grasping at straws, blowing smoke, etc... These are the things you say when your argument has been dismantled.
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