I will not Bow!

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They fought for their 'identity' for "65" years, while we fought for ours for 2000.

They have 22 states to find refugee in, we have none.


Who do you think has more to lose? who will fight for their survival more?

States and identity are not solely tied to religion.

Otherwise Bangledesh would never have split off from Pakistan.

They have no more states than you have - after all, there are Jews all over the world if you look at it that way.

Both deserve recognition of their identity, a right to self determination, and a right to exist as a people. It shouldn't that hard to acknowledge - the legitimacy of fundamental rights are not determined by how long they've been fought for but by what is right and just and human - what we all want for ourselves.

Then Arafat should have accepted the deal offered to him.

Either way, Abbas made it clear, he will not make peace unless the Palestinians have full sovereignty over East Jerusalem and Israel has made it clear in the past that Jerusalem will never be divided.

No peace deal is a WHOLE lot worse for the Palestinians than the Israelis
 
They fought for their 'identity' for "65" years, while we fought for ours for 2000.

They have 22 states to find refugee in, we have none.


Who do you think has more to lose? who will fight for their survival more?

States and identity are not solely tied to religion.

Otherwise Bangledesh would never have split off from Pakistan.

They have no more states than you have - after all, there are Jews all over the world if you look at it that way.

Both deserve recognition of their identity, a right to self determination, and a right to exist as a people. It shouldn't that hard to acknowledge - the legitimacy of fundamental rights are not determined by how long they've been fought for but by what is right and just and human - what we all want for ourselves.

Then Arafat should have accepted the deal offered to him.

Either way, Abbas made it clear, he will not make peace unless the Palestinians have full sovereignty over East Jerusalem and Israel has made it clear in the past that Jerusalem will never be divided.


No peace deal is a WHOLE lot worse for the Palestinians than the Israelis

I'm not sure yet how "clear" it is or whether it's a stage in the process of negotiating.
 
@Rocco and I had a good discussion in a thread on how the issues could be resolved and land swapped etc to achieve peace. Wish I could find it - haven't seen Rocco in a while but his arguments and positions on this were good. :)
 
People who are willing to die to regain their dignity have nothing to lose.



Abbas says he won't make concessions on Jerusalem

RAMALLAH, West Bank (AP) — Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas sent a defiant message to Israel's leadership and U.S. mediators Saturday, telling cheering supporters that the Palestinians "won't kneel" and won't drop demands for a capital in east Jerusalem.







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Kerry sees progress on Israeli-Palestinian framework deal Reuters
Kerry heads to Middle East next week for peace talks: U.S. official Reuters
Kerry says progress in peace talks but more work needed AFP
Analysis: Israel, Palestinians face hard choices Associated Press
Kerry ends Mideast trip without framework deal AFP

Abbas' unusually fiery speech highlighted the wide gaps between him and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on the outlines of a peace deal. It also raised new doubts about the chances of U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry to bridge those gaps in coming weeks and come up with a framework for an agreement.

Abbas adopted tough positions in the wide-ranging speech, saying that "there will be no peace" without a Palestinian capital in east Jerusalem and that he would not recognize Israel as a Jewish state.

He also suggested he would not continue negotiations beyond a U.S.-set target date of the end of April, and instead will resume his quest for broader international recognition of a state of Palestine by the United Nations and its various agencies.

You see where concession got Native Americans. No Justice No Peace !
 
They fought for their 'identity' for "65" years, while we fought for ours for 2000.

They have 22 states to find refugee in, we have none.


Who do you think has more to lose? who will fight for their survival more?

States and identity are not solely tied to religion.

Otherwise Bangledesh would never have split off from Pakistan.

They have no more states than you have - after all, there are Jews all over the world if you look at it that way.

Both deserve recognition of their identity, a right to self determination, and a right to exist as a people. It shouldn't that hard to acknowledge - the legitimacy of fundamental rights are not determined by how long they've been fought for but by what is right and just and human - what we all want for ourselves.

Then Arafat should have accepted the deal offered to him.

Either way, Abbas made it clear, he will not make peace unless the Palestinians have full sovereignty over East Jerusalem and Israel has made it clear in the past that Jerusalem will never be divided.

No peace deal is a WHOLE lot worse for the Palestinians than the Israelis

The Palestinians are not looking for a peace deal. They are looking for peace.

The peace process was designed to fail. It always has and always will. The Palestinians are uniting in their own quest for peace leaving behind the phony peace process.:thup:
 
They fought for their 'identity' for "65" years, while we fought for ours for 2000.

They have 22 states to find refugee in, we have none.


Who do you think has more to lose? who will fight for their survival more?

States and identity are not solely tied to religion.

Otherwise Bangledesh would never have split off from Pakistan.

They have no more states than you have - after all, there are Jews all over the world if you look at it that way.

Both deserve recognition of their identity, a right to self determination, and a right to exist as a people. It shouldn't that hard to acknowledge - the legitimacy of fundamental rights are not determined by how long they've been fought for but by what is right and just and human - what we all want for ourselves.

Then Arafat should have accepted the deal offered to him.

Either way, Abbas made it clear, he will not make peace unless the Palestinians have full sovereignty over East Jerusalem and Israel has made it clear in the past that Jerusalem will never be divided.

No peace deal is a WHOLE lot worse for the Palestinians than the Israelis

I've been to Jerusalem and I've felt what's in the air there that no youtube or picture can convey. So I, more than most people, am against dividing Jerusalem. But East Jerusalem does not equal only the Old City. Many Arab villages were annexed to Jerusalem after the Six-Day War. Some creativity can be displayed in "dividing" parts of "Jerusalem", like Silwan or Abu Dis, which can satisfy both sides.
 
States and identity are not solely tied to religion.

Otherwise Bangledesh would never have split off from Pakistan.

They have no more states than you have - after all, there are Jews all over the world if you look at it that way.

Both deserve recognition of their identity, a right to self determination, and a right to exist as a people. It shouldn't that hard to acknowledge - the legitimacy of fundamental rights are not determined by how long they've been fought for but by what is right and just and human - what we all want for ourselves.

Then Arafat should have accepted the deal offered to him.

Either way, Abbas made it clear, he will not make peace unless the Palestinians have full sovereignty over East Jerusalem and Israel has made it clear in the past that Jerusalem will never be divided.

No peace deal is a WHOLE lot worse for the Palestinians than the Israelis

The Palestinians are not looking for a peace deal. They are looking for peace.

The peace process was designed to fail. It always has and always will. The Palestinians are uniting in their own quest for peace leaving behind the phony peace process.:thup:

Good luck to them, because they certainly are going to need it !!
 
That's real good. Now we know the Palestinians will never have a state.

They can wait...Demographics will do the rest in a one state solution.

No, they can't...

FourMaps.jpg


The Palestinians are running out of time...

There will be no one-state solution that includes the Muslims of Gaza and the West Bank...

The Israelis will end-up controlling those lands...

The Palestinians own propaganda maps tell us this...

It's just that the present occupants of those lands will, by then, be residing within the borders of present-day Jordan, Lebanon and Egypt...
 
States and identity are not solely tied to religion.

Otherwise Bangledesh would never have split off from Pakistan.

They have no more states than you have - after all, there are Jews all over the world if you look at it that way.

Both deserve recognition of their identity, a right to self determination, and a right to exist as a people. It shouldn't that hard to acknowledge - the legitimacy of fundamental rights are not determined by how long they've been fought for but by what is right and just and human - what we all want for ourselves.

Then Arafat should have accepted the deal offered to him.

Either way, Abbas made it clear, he will not make peace unless the Palestinians have full sovereignty over East Jerusalem and Israel has made it clear in the past that Jerusalem will never be divided.

No peace deal is a WHOLE lot worse for the Palestinians than the Israelis

The Palestinians are not looking for a peace deal. They are looking for peace.

The peace process was designed to fail. It always has and always will. The Palestinians are uniting in their own quest for peace leaving behind the phony peace process.:thup:



This shows that you don't have the first clue on what the filastins really want, it is there in the words they speak and in their charter. They want the Jews enslaved as they were pre 1948 and the land back in muslim hands. No uproar and violence when a muslim outsider was given the land of Jordan, or the land of Syria the displaced muslims just moved on to the next place looking for work. In 1921 the then Islamic leader of the area agreed with the British government to accept a Jewish homeland in Palestine along with 2 new muslim states. The moves were made and the 2 muslim states were formed to clear the way for the Jews, then WW2 broke out and the muslims sided with the axis powers in the hope of stealing the land destined for the Jews. The axis powers lost and the muslims decided to create problems for the British by having riots and attacking Jewish areas. The British still reeling after the war did not have the manpower or money to fight a protracted police action so they offered the muslims half of what was originally detined for the Jews. The UN was formed and they ratified the British deal and so paved the way for a Jewish state. Knowing that Britain was impoverished by the war the muslims demanded all the land and caused Britain to give up their mandate leaving the mess in the hands of the UN. That is when the real troubles began as the UN should have sent in a fully armed attack group to halt the arab league by over running their armies and neutralising their sting. Putting embargo's and blockades on the arab nations until they signed a pledge to live in peace or face the wrath of the UN. Now it is too late and the turmoil in the M.E. will only be halted by an all out war between the various Islamic factions and the west
 
That's real good. Now we know the Palestinians will never have a state.

They can wait...Demographics will do the rest in a one state solution.

No, they can't...

FourMaps.jpg


The Palestinians are running out of time...

There will be no one-state solution that includes the Muslims of Gaza and the West Bank...

The Israelis will end-up controlling those lands...

The Palestinians own propaganda maps tell us this...

It's just that the present occupants of those lands will, by then, be residing within the borders of present-day Jordan, Lebanon and Egypt...



Your maps are wrong as the one for 1949 to 1967 shows the post 1967 state of affairs, while the 1947 map is the one that should be in its place.
 
They fought for their 'identity' for "65" years, while we fought for ours for 2000.

They have 22 states to find refugee in, we have none.


Who do you think has more to lose? who will fight for their survival more?

States and identity are not solely tied to religion.

Otherwise Bangledesh would never have split off from Pakistan.

They have no more states than you have - after all, there are Jews all over the world if you look at it that way.

Both deserve recognition of their identity, a right to self determination, and a right to exist as a people. It shouldn't that hard to acknowledge - the legitimacy of fundamental rights are not determined by how long they've been fought for but by what is right and just and human - what we all want for ourselves.

There are Jews all over the world, but only one Jewish state.

There Are Arabs all over the world, with 22 states. And they don't feel it's enough, as they greed our own, as well.

The right to exist as a people is something that was offered to them in 1948. But they chose to see it that this right means that WE cannot exist as a people.

They opened a war to "establish" this right for identity, which means the destruction of ours.

They have lost.

They don't have a state today simply because we insist on existing.

That is why we're hated. For existing.

If it's us existing or them, we chose us.

Once it stops being "or", a game they have started, they'll win justice.

But as long as they insist on destroying us, they'll live with sorrow.

It's very simple.
 
States and identity are not solely tied to religion.

Otherwise Bangledesh would never have split off from Pakistan.

They have no more states than you have - after all, there are Jews all over the world if you look at it that way.

Both deserve recognition of their identity, a right to self determination, and a right to exist as a people. It shouldn't that hard to acknowledge - the legitimacy of fundamental rights are not determined by how long they've been fought for but by what is right and just and human - what we all want for ourselves.

Then Arafat should have accepted the deal offered to him.

Either way, Abbas made it clear, he will not make peace unless the Palestinians have full sovereignty over East Jerusalem and Israel has made it clear in the past that Jerusalem will never be divided.

No peace deal is a WHOLE lot worse for the Palestinians than the Israelis

The Palestinians are not looking for a peace deal. They are looking for peace.

The peace process was designed to fail. It always has and always will. The Palestinians are uniting in their own quest for peace leaving behind the phony peace process.:thup:

The Palestinians are united behind the saying of "Itbah Al Yahud".

they don't want peace.
 
Then Arafat should have accepted the deal offered to him.

Either way, Abbas made it clear, he will not make peace unless the Palestinians have full sovereignty over East Jerusalem and Israel has made it clear in the past that Jerusalem will never be divided.

No peace deal is a WHOLE lot worse for the Palestinians than the Israelis

The Palestinians are not looking for a peace deal. They are looking for peace.

The peace process was designed to fail. It always has and always will. The Palestinians are uniting in their own quest for peace leaving behind the phony peace process.:thup:

The Palestinians are united behind the saying of "Itbah Al Yahud".

they don't want peace.
Disagree.

They do, indeed, want peace.

The kind that would prevail after all the Jews of Israel were slaughtered or driven-out or conquered and dominated, and after the State of Israel is destroyed.

The kind the Palestinians are going to get unless the Jews of Israel deal firmly with the Gazans and West Bankers.
 
They can wait...Demographics will do the rest in a one state solution.

Thank you for exposing that the intolerant, racist arab muslims believe they can "conquer" Israel through means other than war - like the mexicans in the US - so they have no reason in their minds to negotiate in good faith, thanks for clarifying.

What then is the incentive for Israel to not expel or deport all/most of them out of the country, like Azerbaijan did in the 1990s?

That country deported all of its muslims, suffered a few years of hypocritical sanctions which ended, and is now doing quite well.

My own feelings on the acculturation process is a fact of humanity, "No man is an island to himself"... *80% of the present Palestinian genome has roots in ancient Israel...However, I believe a two state solution will lead to many centuries of peace and prosperity for a tiny part of Arabia called Palestine...

Prosperity unlike acculturation spreads like wild-fire, and prosperity brings peace.
 
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States and identity are not solely tied to religion.

Otherwise Bangledesh would never have split off from Pakistan.

They have no more states than you have - after all, there are Jews all over the world if you look at it that way.

Both deserve recognition of their identity, a right to self determination, and a right to exist as a people. It shouldn't that hard to acknowledge - the legitimacy of fundamental rights are not determined by how long they've been fought for but by what is right and just and human - what we all want for ourselves.

Then Arafat should have accepted the deal offered to him.

Either way, Abbas made it clear, he will not make peace unless the Palestinians have full sovereignty over East Jerusalem and Israel has made it clear in the past that Jerusalem will never be divided.

No peace deal is a WHOLE lot worse for the Palestinians than the Israelis

I've been to Jerusalem and I've felt what's in the air there that no youtube or picture can convey. So I, more than most people, am against dividing Jerusalem. But East Jerusalem does not equal only the Old City. Many Arab villages were annexed to Jerusalem after the Six-Day War. Some creativity can be displayed in "dividing" parts of "Jerusalem", like Silwan or Abu Dis, which can satisfy both sides.

It will never happen, share it as a dual Capital or war with Islam forever.
 
Then Arafat should have accepted the deal offered to him.

Either way, Abbas made it clear, he will not make peace unless the Palestinians have full sovereignty over East Jerusalem and Israel has made it clear in the past that Jerusalem will never be divided.

No peace deal is a WHOLE lot worse for the Palestinians than the Israelis

I've been to Jerusalem and I've felt what's in the air there that no youtube or picture can convey. So I, more than most people, am against dividing Jerusalem. But East Jerusalem does not equal only the Old City. Many Arab villages were annexed to Jerusalem after the Six-Day War. Some creativity can be displayed in "dividing" parts of "Jerusalem", like Silwan or Abu Dis, which can satisfy both sides.

It will never happen, share it as a dual Capital or war with Islam forever.



The filastins wont accept a shared capital, with them it is all or nothing. Leave them another 2 or 3 years and they will start to die out due to overcrowding, disease, starvation and infighting. If they want war then let them declare war and show the world that it is them being intransigent and belligerent. At the end of the day Jerusalem was 60% Jewish owned in 1948 before the arab armies tried genocide instead of talking
 
Then Arafat should have accepted the deal offered to him.

Either way, Abbas made it clear, he will not make peace unless the Palestinians have full sovereignty over East Jerusalem and Israel has made it clear in the past that Jerusalem will never be divided.

No peace deal is a WHOLE lot worse for the Palestinians than the Israelis

I've been to Jerusalem and I've felt what's in the air there that no youtube or picture can convey. So I, more than most people, am against dividing Jerusalem. But East Jerusalem does not equal only the Old City. Many Arab villages were annexed to Jerusalem after the Six-Day War. Some creativity can be displayed in "dividing" parts of "Jerusalem", like Silwan or Abu Dis, which can satisfy both sides.

It will never happen, share it as a dual Capital or war with Islam forever.

Then it's war forever, I guess.
 
They can wait...Demographics will do the rest in a one state solution.

Thank you for exposing that the intolerant, racist arab muslims believe they can "conquer" Israel through means other than war - like the mexicans in the US - so they have no reason in their minds to negotiate in good faith, thanks for clarifying.

What then is the incentive for Israel to not expel or deport all/most of them out of the country, like Azerbaijan did in the 1990s?

That country deported all of its muslims, suffered a few years of hypocritical sanctions which ended, and is now doing quite well.

My own feelings on the acculturation process is a fact of humanity, "No man is an island to himself"... *80% of the present Palestinian genome has roots in ancient Israel...However, I believe a two state solution will lead to many centuries of peace and prosperity for a tiny part of Arabia called Palestine...

Prosperity unlike acculturation spreads like wild-fire, and prosperity brings peace.

Israel/Palestine is part of an area of Asia called the Middle East. It's not part of the peninsula called Arabia. Study some geography.
 
Then Arafat should have accepted the deal offered to him.

Either way, Abbas made it clear, he will not make peace unless the Palestinians have full sovereignty over East Jerusalem and Israel has made it clear in the past that Jerusalem will never be divided.

No peace deal is a WHOLE lot worse for the Palestinians than the Israelis

I've been to Jerusalem and I've felt what's in the air there that no youtube or picture can convey. So I, more than most people, am against dividing Jerusalem. But East Jerusalem does not equal only the Old City. Many Arab villages were annexed to Jerusalem after the Six-Day War. Some creativity can be displayed in "dividing" parts of "Jerusalem", like Silwan or Abu Dis, which can satisfy both sides.

It will never happen, share it as a dual Capital or war with Islam forever.

Islam is at war with us :cuckoo: they are the ones who refuse to 'share' Jerusalem, and by their belief, their war with the Jews is eternal.

It wasn't our call. It's their own religious delusion.
 
Thank you for exposing that the intolerant, racist arab muslims believe they can "conquer" Israel through means other than war - like the mexicans in the US - so they have no reason in their minds to negotiate in good faith, thanks for clarifying.

What then is the incentive for Israel to not expel or deport all/most of them out of the country, like Azerbaijan did in the 1990s?

That country deported all of its muslims, suffered a few years of hypocritical sanctions which ended, and is now doing quite well.

My own feelings on the acculturation process is a fact of humanity, "No man is an island to himself"... *80% of the present Palestinian genome has roots in ancient Israel...However, I believe a two state solution will lead to many centuries of peace and prosperity for a tiny part of Arabia called Palestine...

Prosperity unlike acculturation spreads like wild-fire, and prosperity brings peace.

Israel/Palestine is part of an area of Asia called the Middle East. It's not part of the peninsula called Arabia. Study some geography.

He said "Arabia", not the "Arabian peninsula".

Study some history.
 
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