I will not Bow!

[Phoenall]

"...The Palestinians did not declare independence on any Israeli territory so I don't see where timing is an issue."

The wording of the September 22, 1948 communique from the Arabs, stipulates Palestine (all of Old Palestine) in its entirety and within its previously defined borders (not that it had any to call its own, given that it never existed as a polity, prior to that time).

Given that the Jews of Old Palestine had seized and claimed a portion of Old Palestine by which to comprise their own new State of Israel, by the time of the September 22, 1948 Arab Declaration, a sizable percentage of the land referenced therein was no longer theirs to claim.

Jewish-owned lands and others seized in brawls and fighting with the Arabs became, de facto, the lands of the new State of Israel - built on the bleached bones of part of Old Palestine.

Victory on the battlefield (being defined as holding off the Arab League and keeping the lands they had been holding) reaffirmed such Jewish claims.

Acceptance of this fait accompli by the UN in 1949 lent a considerable air of legitimacy to such a stance.

The passage of time has affirmed the stance as the operative state of affairs amongst those living in the Real World.

Jewish-owned lands and others seized in brawls and fighting with the Arabs became, de facto, the lands of the new State of Israel

Indeed.

The Palestinians declared independence inside their long held international borders.

There was no clash.

Here we go again twisted old documents and biased Palestinian academicals that have made a livlehood out of "proving" that Palestine had a nation and borders because of the treaty of Lausanne that never even mentioned Palestine.

More egg on your face when you come up with the bullshit LIES, or do you have a new source of information.

 

[Phoenall]

"Did Israel's declared borders clash with the Palestinian's?"

Was that in 1948, 1988 or 210088?

Actually, that's another Tinmore lie, as the Palestinians had NO BORDERS

Another Israeli lie. Look up international boundaries and find them on this map of Palestine.

Found them but cant see in the legend THESE ARE THE INTERNATIONAL BORDERS OF PALESTINE. What they are in reality is the International borders of the surrounding nations.
Unless you can show a map with the above words in its legend ?

 

[Phoenall]

Palestine had internationally recognized borders from 1922 to 1948. Right up until the day the Mandate was ended.

Proof is needed that is indisputable and would stand up in any American court of law.

 

[Victory67]

Found them but cant see in the legend THESE ARE THE INTERNATIONAL BORDERS OF PALESTINE. What they are in reality is the International borders of the surrounding nations.
Unless you can show a map with the above words in its legend ?

God you're one dumb Israeli. The borders of Palestine were international and seperated Palestine from Transjordan, Egypt, and the Syria-Lebanon Mandate.

 

[Phoenall]

Indeed.

The Palestinians declared independence inside their long held international borders.

There was no clash.

They declared independence on territory already declared independent by Israel

Remember this?

After the 1948 war, Israel was established on a more extensive territory than recommended in the partition plan. By entering into the Armistice Agreement with Egypt in 1949, Israel, demonstrated a sufficient level of stable and effective government of the territory to be recognised as a state by other states and the UN. Israel was effectively and lawfully established as a state, on the armistice territory, by secession from the Mandate of Palestine. A state for the Palestinians living in the Mandate of Palestine was never created and this unrealised goal still constitutes one of the core issues of the conflict.

Israel was effectively and lawfully established as a state, on the armistice territory,

2. The Armistice Demarcation Line is not to be construed in any sense as a political or territorial boundary,...

The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949

Yet not much later the Un decided that it did and accepted the new borders of Israel

 

[Phoenall]

Palestine had internationally recognized borders from 1922 to 1948. Right up until the day the Mandate was ended.

Another Israeli lie.

1. The Armistice Demarcation Line shall follow the international boundary between the Lebanon and Palestine.

The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949

Notice that this was the year after the end of the mandate.

The mandate ended and the UN took over as detailed in the UN resolutions. The Jews showed enough fortitude and sense to prove they were capable of supporting themselves as a nation under res 181 so were recognised in may 1948 as a nation. The arabs failed to show anything but hostility and belligerence right up until 1988 when they finally agreed to an interim governing body to make the necessary peace deals with their neighbours. That 5 year governing body is still in existence and shows a total lack of commitment to peace by the arab hostiles.

 

[Phoenall]

Tinmore, you cant even provide a map entitled PALESTINE that shows it with international borders

The only thing you have is a PROPOSED PARTITION PLAN map with proposed borders

The Zionists accepted the borders for The State of Israel. They considered the borders to be legit.

Yes and the arab muslims didn't at that is why we have perpetual war. Every time the muslims attack they lose a little bit more land, soon they will have to move to gaza and declare that the Palestinian nation

 

[Victory67]

Yes and the arab muslims didn't at that is why we have perpetual war. Every time the muslims attack they lose a little bit more land, soon they will have to move to gaza and declare that the Palestinian nation

Or they will just cancel the Oslo Accords and demand Israeli citizenship.

 

[Phoenall]

Palestine had internationally recognized borders from 1922 to 1948. Right up until the day the Mandate was ended.

Depends upon one's point of view.

A widely internationally and formally recognized, autonomous and sovereign Lebanon existed on May 15, 1948.

A widely internationally and formally recognized, autonomous and sovereign Syria existed on May 15, 1948.

A widely internationally and formally recognized, autonomous and sovereign Transjordan existed on May 15, 1948.

A widely internationally and formally recognized, autonomous and sovereign Egypt existed on May 15, 1948.

No such widely internationally and formally recognized, autonmous and sovereign Palestine existed on May 15, 1948.

What existed in Old Palestine at the expiration of the British Mandate was a political vacuum bordered by legitimate and sovereign states.

The Mediterranean Sea and the borders of those preexisting sovereign states merely acted as the boundary lines for the maximum extent of the political vacuum.

The Jews of Old Palestine jumped-in quickly and claimed some of the land associated with that political vacuum as the basis for their own independent State.

Subsequent events made their claim a Reality.

Anyone not recognizing that Reality does, indeed, have recourse.

They may appeal the decision of history by force of arms.

The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”

84To qualify for Palestinian nationality by virtue of this paragraph, the person had to be: (1) a Turkish subject, or citizen; and (2) habitually resident in Palestine. While Palestinian nationality in accordance with international law (the Treaty of Lausanne) was created, as shown above, on 6 August 1924, the same nationality was effectively created on 1 August 1925 based on domestic law (the Palestinian Citizenship Order).

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

British Mandate was a political vacuum bordered by legitimate and sovereign states.

A vacuum with citizens defined by law. And international borders too.

Interesting legal concept.

It says no such thing as Palestine is not even mentioned, and this is the work of a very biased muslim isn't it who added the term Palestine in his version of the treaty.
What it really said was that those citizens of the ottoman empire that live in the former lands governed by them will take on the citizenship of the new controlling powers. In this case they became British citizens of Palestine.

God it is so easy to rip your arguments apart they are so immature in their simplicity.

 

[aris2chat]

Actually, that's another Tinmore lie, as the Palestinians had NO BORDERS

Another Israeli lie. Look up international boundaries and find them on this map of Palestine.

Found them but cant see in the legend THESE ARE THE INTERNATIONAL BORDERS OF PALESTINE. What they are in reality is the International borders of the surrounding nations.
Unless you can show a map with the above words in its legend ?

Map is from 1946 and has the UN proposition

 

[Phoenall]

The Zionists accepted the borders for The State of Israel. They considered the borders to be legit.

They considered the borders of the sovereign states surrounding them to be legit, and they left something of Old Palestine for the Arabs as well, as much in keeping with the 1947 Partition proposal as was practicable after some months of fighting had already altered the internal boundaries between population groups.

Do you have some links for all that?

They have been given plenty of times and you ignore them because they rip your arguments to shreds.

 

[Phoenall]

Who set those borders in place and then drew an official map declaring that the borders of the nation of Palestine are as shown on the map. Care to produce a link giving all the information and map so we can see whish NEONAZI JEW HATRED site you are being fed your disinformation from.

For the record the borders of old Palestine as set out in the mandate included Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Israel, west bank, gaza, part of Egypt and part of Saudi Arabia. Don't see any problems arising out of the land being given to migrant royal princes from Saudi Arabia and their followers who expelled the indigenous arabs in the process.

Who drew the borders of Palestine? The League of Nations. You know, the same guys who approved the Mandate for Palestine which allowed Jews to make a homeland there?

Actually the borders were in place 2,000 years ago when Palestine was so named by the Romans, and that is the area they designated as Palestine. What you call Palestine was the dregs left over for all the arab scum after the royal houses had taken their pick of the prime land.

 

[Phoenall]

Found them but cant see in the legend THESE ARE THE INTERNATIONAL BORDERS OF PALESTINE. What they are in reality is the International borders of the surrounding nations.
Unless you can show a map with the above words in its legend ?

God you're one dumb Israeli. The borders of Palestine were international and seperated Palestine from Transjordan, Egypt, and the Syria-Lebanon Mandate.

And yet at the beginning of the mandate only one of those nations existed, and that was Egypt. The rest were all part of old Palestine that existed until 1920 when the royal houses carved up Palestine for themselves.

Unless you can show a map or document that says differently ?

What a dumb ISLAMONAZI you are

 

[Victory67]

Actually the borders were in place 2,000 years ago when Palestine was so named by the Romans, and that is the area they designated as Palestine. What you call Palestine was the dregs left over for all the arab scum after the royal houses had taken their pick of the prime land.

Obviously this is a stupid lie as the borders of Judea were very different and much small than the borders of Palestine.

But that's cool, go ahead and say that the legitimate borders of Israel are the borders of the Roman Province of Judea. That makes Israel much smaller.

File:First century palestine.gif - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:RomanEmpire_117.svg

http://oteripedia.jw2.de/Königreich_Judäa

http://www.livius.org/a/1/maps/israel4_map.gif

 

[Phoenall]

Yes and the arab muslims didn't at that is why we have perpetual war. Every time the muslims attack they lose a little bit more land, soon they will have to move to gaza and declare that the Palestinian nation

Or they will just cancel the Oslo Accords and demand Israeli citizenship.

Not a given that they will get Israeli citizenship, or that the USA will allow them to cancel the Oslo Accords.

 

[Phoenall]

Actually the borders were in place 2,000 years ago when Palestine was so named by the Romans, and that is the area they designated as Palestine. What you call Palestine was the dregs left over for all the arab scum after the royal houses had taken their pick of the prime land.

Obviously this is a stupid lie as the borders of Judea were very different and much small than the borders of Palestine.

But that's cool, go ahead and say that the legitimate borders of Israel are the borders of the Roman Province of Judea. That makes Israel much smaller.

File:First century palestine.gif - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

File:RomanEmpire 117.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But I am not saying that am I DUMB ISLAMONAZI I am saying that during the mandate the extent of Palestine was much larger than it is now.

 

[Victory67]

But I am not saying that am I DUMB ISLAMONAZI I am saying that during the mandate the extent of Palestine was much larger than it is now.

You said that the borders of Palestine were decided by the Romans 2,000 years ago and that shows you are a stupid Nazi Zionist.

 

[Kondor3]

Yes and the arab muslims didn't at that is why we have perpetual war. Every time the muslims attack they lose a little bit more land, soon they will have to move to gaza and declare that the Palestinian nation

Or they will just cancel the Oslo Accords and demand Israeli citizenship.

At which point the Israelis will be able to supplement their supply of toilet paper by re-tasking the formal Palestinian demand, and have a good belly laugh at the same time...

A Two-Fer...

 

[Kondor3]

But I am not saying that am I DUMB ISLAMONAZI I am saying that during the mandate the extent of Palestine was much larger than it is now.

You said that the borders of Palestine were decided by the Romans 2,000 years ago and that shows you are a stupid Nazi Zionist.

I'll take a falsely labeled ZioNazi over an accurately labeled IslamoNazi any day...

 

[Victory67]

But I am not saying that am I DUMB ISLAMONAZI I am saying that during the mandate the extent of Palestine was much larger than it is now.

You said that the borders of Palestine were decided by the Romans 2,000 years ago and that shows you are a stupid Nazi Zionist.

I'll take a falsely labeled ZioNazi over an accurately labeled IslamoNazi any day...

Of course you would as your Zionist ideas were admired by Nazi henchman Adolf Eichmann.