I Was Ordered To Push Iraqis Off Bridge

[TheOne]

Fort Carson Soldier: I Was Ordered To Push Iraqis Off Bridge
Investigation Under Way Into Fatal Incident Over Tigris River

POSTED: 3:45 pm MDT July 28, 2004

FORT CARSON, Colo. -- One of four soldiers charged with shoving two Iraqi civilians into the Tigris River where one of them drowned says his superior officers ordered up the incident and told him what to say to officials looking into the death, an Army investigator testified Wednesday.

Spc. Terry Bowman said he "was told by his chain of command what version to give CID," Sgt. Irene Cintron of the Army's Criminal Investigation Command (CID) said during a teleconference from Iraq as the military convened a hearing to determine whether the soldiers will be court-martialed.

Bowman said he had been ordered to push the men into the river, Cintron said. No names were disclosed, though three of the soldiers' commanders have received nonjudicial punishments for their roles in the incident. None of the punishments include jail time.

Sgt. 1st Class Tracy E. Perkins, 33, 1st Lt. Jack M. Saville, 24 and Sgt. Reggie Martinez, 24, are charged with involuntary manslaughter in the Jan. 3 drowning death of a man identified by family members in Iraq as Zaidoun Fadel Hassoun, 19.

Bowman, 21, is charged with assault for allegedly pushing the second man into the river at the same time. That man, a cousin of Hassoun named Marwan Fadel Hassoun, 23, survived the incident and described what happened to The Associated Press several weeks ago.

Marwan Hassoun said he tried to help his cousin swim to safety, only to lose his grip as the soldiers watched and laughed from above. "They were behaving like they were watching a comedy on stage," he told the AP.

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[Annie]

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I don't think this version of the Twinkie Defense will win...

 

[DKSuddeth]

I don't think this version of the Twinkie Defense will win...

No, it won't win. no matter whether it was ordered or not, he's just as guilty of the crime. The more serious crime of ordering the incident still gets swept under the rug it seems.

 

[lilcountriegal]

It seems no one is even sure that both people died. At least one witness has come forward to say he saw two people climb out of the River.

And this is yahoo.

Sgt. Alexis Rincon, a member of the patrol Jan. 3, testified that none of soldiers believed the men were in danger because one quickly made it to shore. Another patrol member said he saw two civilians climbing out of the river and up the riverbank as he left the scene

Yahoo article

 

[Annie]

It seems no one is even sure that both people died. At least one witness has come forward to say he saw two people climb out of the River.

And this is yahoo.



http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=718&e=9&u=/ap/20040729/ap_on_re_us/soldiers_charged

That sounds interesting, but the link won't work for me!

 

[DKSuddeth]

no body, no crime? sound familiar?

 

[lilcountriegal]

That sounds interesting, but the link won't work for me!

Try it now Kathianne... fixed.

 

[Annie]

Try it now Kathianne... fixed.

Thank you, great link! I think they will 'have to' exhume the body or drop the charges.

 

[dmp]

Couple of things:

There exists a vast distance between how officers are punished, and how enlisted are punished.

Case in point. Two married-to-different-people soliders, one enlisted, the other a commissioned officer. Since Adultry violates the UCMJ, they were caught and busted.

the Captain: He gets a letter in his file.

the enlisted: She gets reduced in rank, confined to place of duty/dining/worship for 60? Days, forfiture of one month's pay...



(sigh)

Also - it's a violation of law for soldiers to obey unlawful orders. Its their DUTY to disobey an unlawful order.

 

[Merlin1047]

Couple of things:

There exists a vast distance between how officers are punished, and how enlisted are punished.

Case in point. Two married-to-different-people soliders, one enlisted, the other a commissioned officer. Since Adultry violates the UCMJ, they were caught and busted.

the Captain: He gets a letter in his file.

the enlisted: She gets reduced in rank, confined to place of duty/dining/worship for 60? Days, forfiture of one month's pay...

The enlisted man will regain his rank, probably within the year and his career will be essentially unaffected by the punitive action - with the possible exception of potential promotion to Sergeant Major (E-9).

The officer's career is over. He will NEVER be promoted. When he has been passed over twice, he will be involuntarily separated from the service. In essence, he has been fired.

Now tell me which punishment is the more severe.

 

[DKSuddeth]

The enlisted man will regain his rank, probably within the year and his career will be essentially unaffected by the punitive action - with the possible exception of potential promotion to Sergeant Major (E-9).

The officer's career is over. He will NEVER be promoted. When he has been passed over twice, he will be involuntarily separated from the service. In essence, he has been fired.

Now tell me which punishment is the more severe.

this isn't necessarily true concerning the enlisted man. It's highly unlikely he will ever exceed the rank of E-6 if a conviction results.

 

[dmp]

The enlisted man will regain his rank, probably within the year and his career will be essentially unaffected by the punitive action - with the possible exception of potential promotion to Sergeant Major (E-9).

The officer's career is over. He will NEVER be promoted. When he has been passed over twice, he will be involuntarily separated from the service. In essence, he has been fired.

Now tell me which punishment is the more severe.

You are assuming both decide to say in...(shrug) I've seen Majors with similiar type 'punishments' in their folders. Retiring as a MAJ is not shameful. I've seen an E6, STUCK at E6 because he fessed up to having a few ounces of pot in his wall locker.

(shrug)

 

[freeandfun1]

You are assuming both decide to say in...(shrug) I've seen Majors with similiar type 'punishments' in their folders. Retiring as a MAJ is not shameful. I've seen an E6, STUCK at E6 because he fessed up to having a few ounces of pot in his wall locker.

(shrug)

I worked with a 30 year E6 when I was in Korea that was part of the Caley group. The guy was NEVER gonna go any higher.

 

[ajwps]

It seems no one is even sure that both people died. At least one witness has come forward to say he saw two people climb out of the River.

And this is yahoo.




Yahoo article

Soldiers Charged In Drowning Case May Blame Malaria Drug
Fort Carson Soldiers Accused Of Pushing 2 Iraqis Into River

POSTED: 1:24 pm MDT July 27, 2004

DENVER -- A veterans advocate said Tuesday that defense lawyers may blame an anti-malarial drug for triggering a rage in U.S. soldiers charged with shoving two Iraqi civilians into the Tigris River, where one of the Iraqis drowned.

Steve Robinson of the National Gulf War Research Center said he has been told he may be questioned at an Article 32 hearing on Wednesday, which could determine whether the three of the soldiers face courts-martial in the case.

"I am not saying this is why people push people off bridges, but there seems to be a pretty plausible connection to rage issues to taking the drug," he said.

Sgt. 1st Class Tracy E. Perkins, 33, 1st Lt. Jack M. Saville, 24 and Sgt. Reggie Martinez, 24, are charged with involuntary manslaughter in the drowning death in the city of Samarra, near Baghdad, on Jan. 3.

Spc. Terry Bowman, 21, is charged with assault for allegedly pushing a second man into the river with him. That man survived.

A hearing for Perkins, Martinez and Bowman was scheduled Wednesday. Saville's hearing has not been set.

The anti-malaria drug, Lariam, was given to U.S. military personnel who went to Iraq and has already figured in another high-profile Army disciplinary case. A charge of cowardice was dropped against a Special Forces interrogator who said he suffered physical and psychological problems after taking the drug.

"I am sure the attorneys (for the soldiers in the drowning case) are looking at every available defense," said Maj. Doug Watkins, head of the legal defense office at Fort Carson. He said he is not representing any of the defendants and couldn't comment further.

Names of the defense attorneys have not been released.

The Army stopped issuing Lariam to soldiers going to Iraq after determining it was not needed.

The Food and Drug Administration's advisory label for the drug says people with a history of depression should not take it.

"Anyone who is depressed? That would be every one in Iraq," said Robinson.

Veterans Secretary Anthony J. Principi said in a July 6 letter to Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., that he was alerting clinics of the "potential for serious complications associated mefloquine," the generic name of Lariam.

Lariam's manufacturer, Roche Pharmaceuticals, has said the drug has been used safely and effectively to treat 25 million people over the past 19 years. The company said patients should read the FDA label but added that studies have shown the drug to be "safe and well-tolerated."

The Army said Perkins, Saville, Martinez and Bowman were on patrol and had stopped the Iraqis for a curfew violation. The Army identified the drowning victim as Mr. Fadhil and the other man as Mr. Fadel.

Family members said the drowning victim was Zaidoun Fadel Hassoun, 19, and that the survivor was his cousin, Marwan Fadel Hassoun, 23.

Marwan Hassoun has said they were returning to their homes in Samarra after a trip to Baghdad when the soldiers stopped them, marched them to the river and shoved them in. The current swept Zaidoun Hassoun away, he said.

"He was shouting 'Marwan, save me,' and I yelled back 'Try to swim, try to swim,' but he went under again and that was it. I could hear them (the soldiers) laughing. They were behaving like they were watching a comedy on stage," he said.

Perkins and Saville are also charged with assault, conspiracy and obstruction of justice, and all four are charged with making false statements. They face between 5 1/2 years and 26 1/2 years in prison if convicted on all charges.

The soldiers are assigned to Fort Carson's 3rd Brigade Combat Team, which has since returned to the post. The brigade is part of the 4th Infantry Division, based at Fort Hood, Texas.

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