Zone1 I am stepping away from Judaism

you have not won JACK shit Saint Ding!

you can’t even get Saint Meriweather to agree with your argument that society needs to criminalize abortion as a class C misdemeanor. The Catholic pro-life Taliban are gonna go for that either. You got nobody I bet there’s no other person in the entire world that wants to see abortion classified as a class C misdemeanor crime.

But you think that makes you saintly I guess.

also writing a woman a ticket that only involves a fine is a restriction on her liberty.

Do you think so low of women that their liberty is not worth protecting?

The real Saints are laughing at you
I think I have won, W. I've got you calling me names and attacking my character.
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It doesn't matter if anyone agrees with me. The idea is out there and makes a ton of sense. It's only a matter of time now. I can wait. It's not so bad having to wait.

My position is that abortion is a crime and given the complexity of the issue the punishment for that crime should be minimal... as in a class C misdemeanor with NO JAIL TIME.
 
human beings could be killed their entire lifetime saint dang. When a woman kills her fetus, she does so with foreknowledge and intent.. you say that should be classified as a class C misdemeanor with no jail time.


by your standard that you have established here when a person kills a human being with four knowledge and intent, it should be a classy misdemeanor with no jail time.

That is your justice system Saint Ding.
My position is that abortion is a crime and given the complexity of the issue the punishment for that crime should be minimal... as in a class C misdemeanor with NO JAIL TIME.
 
i didn't but soon after your reply I did!
Of the hundreds of differing beliefs permitted by the church, there's really not any that can be declared to be wrong!

We both of us accept the bogus Jonah story. fish story of not worthy of spending more time on it. Even though the majority of cathilics believe it.
You really are confused about that, but that's ok. :)
 
I think I heard Saint Ding say that he doesn’t believe in original sin.

I don’t think you can negotiate that one out of the catholic Church or just about every mainstream church.

It defeats the purpose of Jesus coming the first time to save all us sinners.
I'm still working through that but my concept of original sin is subjectivity which keeps people from seeing reality. You know... like you thinking making abortion a misdemeanor is a bad thing.
 
abortion and contraceptives, the choice of celibacy ...

yes they are the same as all reproductive rights and have the same result and have come into being for the betterment and concern for garden earth as is taught by the heavens and jesus in the 1st century.

the crucifiers who are the criminals, justice not silly traffic tickets what is needed for them - bing.
Incorrect. It's already been explained.
 
you can’t even get Saint Meriweather to agree with your argument that society needs to criminalize abortion
This does not correctly state my position. The government decriminalized abortion, and following the Milgram experiment, the majority of society agreed since Authority spoke, it is okay to kill new human life. Should government have ever decriminalized abortion? Of course not! But they did and I very much doubt they will change their mind. Therefore, the very least government can do is stand for life and do not approve of taking of any innocent human life because it is wrong, but that it won't charge a mother murdering the life growing inside her.

Another error: 'S'aint (capital S) if for canonized saints investigated for this honor by the Vatican tribunal. Either you appointed yourself the one and only tribunal member authorized to Canonize saints or you are playing the bully which begs the question, Why are you being a bully; why did you decide to bully me? And Ding, for that matter. The history and etymology of 'saint' used in the early Christian church specifies Christians who set themselves apart from the world to follow Christ. By this definition Ding and I have clearly joined millions, even billions of other saints down through the ages, who have chosen to follow Christ. If you want to taunt us for following Christ, at least be accurate. We are one of millions of saints. If you wish to bully, shrug. That reflects on you, not anyone else. As for Ding and myself: 'S' we 'aint'. Not yet.

If the government can be convinced to make abortion a misdemeanor, I am all for it. If they refuse (and it seems they have already done so), then I say the very least they can do if they will not prosecute is to assert the government is not in favor of anyone ending any human life, but will not prosecute women who take the matters into their own hands--and shame onto them. If a mother wants to end an innocent life, that is one thing. When government wants to end innocent life, people better take a really hard look at who they are electing to government positions.
 
the very least government can do is stand for life and do not approve of taking of any innocent human life because it is wrong
That's not the least the government can do. The least the government can do is nothing. Absent federal laws it's up to each state to write laws or amend state constitutions. Which is probably the way it should be.

But to your point, it doesn't make sense for a nation to kill off it's young. Seems rather counterproductive to their charter of promoting the welfare and security of the nation. So in that regard, yes, the least they can do is stand for life and not condone the taking of innocent human life because it is wrong. It's a crime.
 
i. Meriweather mcccxxvi. : The government decriminalized abortion, and following the Milgram experiment, the majority of society agreed since Authority spoke, it is okay to kill new human life. #mrwthr 241207 Siasaf01326

ii. NotfooledbyW mcccxxviii to 1326. : The government did not decriminalize abortion in 1973. English common law did not criminalize abortion in the original 13 colonies. The civilization at the time of the American Revolution basically did not recognize the concept of sanctity of life beginning at conception. if a woman wanted to do so there was like an unwritten code of midwives which took care of such things.

The question in 1973 was whether women who wanted an abortion should have safe access to modern medicine that is regulated by the states. Legalizing the procedure was performed for fifty years with absolutely no detrimental effect on the moral capacity of America’s civilized abd law abiding population.

Your argument is overtly Catholic and dishonest in a secular society, when you use phrases like “society agreed since Authority spoke, it is okay to kill new human life.”

That’s Catholic and white Christian nationalist propaganda, which has propel led a complete anti-abortion industry in this country to the benefit of our billionaires who lean into Trump’s culture war populism to win benefits for their class.

Society has never agreed that it’s OK to kill human life among people who have been born.. And never will.

Only the Catholic Church responded to modern medical abortion procedures as unwelcome in a moral society and therefore must be banned by moral people in the government You tell us without evidence.

Unfortunately, for women, a good many ultra conservative Republicans voting protestants took up the saving baby fetus cause and want to criminalize it way beyond what Saint Dean wants to do with his misdemeanors. they want prison terms my passing a personhood amendment to the constitution as soon as they can figure out how.

Your Siasaf01326. narrative is in error from the very start. nfbw 242207 Viasaf01328
 
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The government decriminalized abortion, and following the Milgram experiment, the majority of society agreed since Authority spoke, it is okay to kill new human life. Should government have ever decriminalized abortion?
Out of curiosity... what was the punishment before it was decriminalized and when were those laws written?
 
In colonial times abortion was considered a morality issue, not a criminal one. However, some localities prosecuted cases involving abortions. For example, in 1740s Connecticut, prosecutors tried a doctor and a man for a misdemeanor in connection with the death of a woman after a botched abortion.

:dance:
 
In the British colonies abortions were legal if they were performed prior to quickening. In the French colonies abortions were frequently performed despite the fact that they were considered to be illegal. In the Spanish and Portuguese colonies abortion was illegal.

 
Out of curiosity... what was the punishment before it was decriminalized and when were those laws written?
I do not know a lot about that. What I remember is that abortion was not all that unusual in Colonial American through about the mid 1800s. I found it interesting that people began to protest the practice at the time of the Civil War, and by the late 1800s it was criminalized, resulting in imprisonment in some States, but apparently not in all, as it was a State issue, not a federal one.

What I personally find heartbreaking is that abortion was criminalized for less than a hundred years, before the Feds got involved and decriminalized it in every State. Leave it to the Federal government to really mess things up. Based on legal precedence, the issue of abortion was decided by each State in the 1800s; the Feds got involved in the 1900s; then the issue was returned to the States (from which it originated) in the 2000s.
 
is that your phony church ... you take your host from a celibate the same result as abortion but despise women choosing their own self determination



- do you know nothing at all.
Says the guy from a secret religion.
 
I think I heard Saint Ding say that he doesn’t believe in original sin.

I don’t think you can negotiate that one out of the catholic Church or just about every mainstream church.

It defeats the purpose of Jesus coming the first time to save all us sinners.
Those sort of people try to block the contradictions out of their minds. It used to be for most Christians that all the contradiction of the impossible bible stories could be explained away. Now since around 1950 their church felt it was necessary to deal with the increasing problems that were caused by the nonsense such as living in the big fish for three days.

They devised the clever tactic of pretending that those sort of outrageous lies could become something less than true stories. But that permission only needed to be taken up by those of them who couldn't make the 'big fish' story work for them, no matter how much blind faith they applied.

That's our Ding!

However, the extra intelligent such as Jordan Peterson. couldn't make the stories work for him either way and so he actually has gone back to favouring the literally true beliefs. Quite amazingly, Jordan is back trying to believe in life in the big fish again!

It's on a utube in which Sam Harris pries it out of Jordan and it's worth watching Jordan spin and suffer that which isn't consolable with the set of beliefs he's trying to finally establish for himself.
 
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I do not know a lot about that. What I remember is that abortion was not all that unusual in Colonial American through about the mid 1800s. I found it interesting that people began to protest the practice at the time of the Civil War, and by the late 1800s it was criminalized, resulting in imprisonment in some States, but apparently not in all, as it was a State issue, not a federal one.
Instead of extreme measures, both pro-abortion and anti-abortion, such as Ding's suggested wrist slap, to the other extreme such as murder of doctors, there's hope in adopting an attitude of moving the question to the back burner.

Most, possibly all modern countries are finding answers in that, and for good reasons. The human condition in America isn't one of compassion or of banishing the 'death penalty' on grounds that it's barbaric
What I personally find heartbreaking is that abortion was criminalized for less than a hundred years, before the Feds got involved and decriminalized it in every State.
Is there personal politics involved in that? If you're sincere then you would have to be opposed to the death penalty.
Leave it to the Federal government to really mess things up. Based on legal precedence, the issue of abortion was decided by each State in the 1800s; the Feds got involved in the 1900s; then the issue was returned to the States (from which it originated) in the 2000s.

Is it just coincidental that America has such a huge fight going on over abortions, in that America is one of the last modern countries to administer the death penalty?

I find it troubling too, as an atheist, even though it's not my country. I think it must be especially troubling to Christians, on both issues.
 
1300 39. Critical Truth Is Confirmed by Saint Ding:

The civilization at the time of the American Revolution basically did not recognize the concept of sanctity of life beginning at conception ; it began at quickening

Notice to all hyper-sensitive persons about bullying and name-calling, a “saint” by my use of definition is “one eminent for virtue” in an informal sense. I use it to distinguish voters into two politically opposed groups. Saints vote moral monocultural issues first versus Voters who vote working class multicultural issues first. That’s All Folks!

i. ding said: Because abortion is a crime. dvng 122407 Siadaf01291

ii. Meriweather mcccxxvi. : The government decriminalized abortion, and following the Milgram experiment, the majority of society agreed since Authority spoke, it is okay to kill new human life. mrwthr 241207 Siasaf01326

iii. ding mcccxxix to 1326. : Out of curiosity... what was the punishment before it was decriminalized and when were those laws written? dvng 241207 Siasaf01329

iv.a. Meriweather mcccxxxv. : I do not know a lot about that. What I remember is that abortion was not all that unusual in Colonial America through about the mid 1800s. mrwthr 241308 Sissaf01335

iv.b. Meriweather mcccxxxv. : found it interesting that people began to protest the practice at the time of the Civil War, mrwthr 241308 Sissaf01335

v. ding mcccxxx : In colonial times abortion was considered a morality issue, not a criminal one. . dvng 241207 Siasaf01330

vi. ding mcccxxxi. : In the British colonies abortions were legal if they were performed prior to quickening. Abortion in early America - PubMed. ¥. dvng 241207 Siasaf01331

vii. Monk-Eye mxxxvii. : The blackmun decision followed us constitution and originalism for the relationship between a citizen and a state , as the instantiation of both required a live birth , where by an ability for a fetus to survive an imminent live birth at natural viability was substituted in lieu of a live birth requirement . mvnkvyv 241208 Srwbsw01037

viii. NotfooledbyW mcccxxviii to 1326. : The government did not decriminalize abortion in 1973. English common law did not criminalize abortion in the original 13 colonies. The civilization at the time of the American Revolution basically did not recognize the concept of sanctity of life beginning at conception. if a woman wanted to do so there was like an unwritten code of midwives which took care of such things.

The question in 1973 was whether women who wanted an abortion should have safe access to modern medicine that is regulated by the states. Legalizing the procedure was performed for fifty years with absolutely no detrimental effect on the moral capacity of America’s civilized and law abiding population.

Your argument is overtly Catholic and dishonest in a secular society, when you use phrases like “society agreed since Authority spoke, it is okay to kill new human life.”

That’s Catholic and white Christian nationalist propaganda, which has propelled a complete anti-abortion industry in this country to the benefit of our billionaires who lean into Trump’s culture war populism to win benefits for their class.

Society has never agreed that it’s OK to kill new human life among people who have been born.. And never will.

Only the Catholic Church responded to modern medical abortion procedures as unwelcome in a moral society and therefore must be banned by moral people in the government. nfbw 242207 Viasaf01328

viii. NotfooledbyW mcccxxxix. : Molly Smith had an abortion in 1897 in Texas. She was not indictable but the man who. got her pregnant and subsequently performed the abortion was indicted for harming the woman not for murdering a fetus.

You can read about her case here: Not 1925: Texas’ law banning abortion dates to before the Civil War. and here:
Moore v. the State, 37 Tex. Crim. 552 | Casetext Search + Citator. There is no pretense that any one acted in concert with appellant but Mollie Smith, the injured female. While she may be culpable morally, under our law she is not indictable for an abortion committed on herself.

And this is a request to Saint Meriweather to provide a source for her claim in paragraph iv.b. Siasaf01335. above where she finds it interesting that people began to protest the practice at the time of the Civil War, I have not found much evidence of that; rather I have read about all those late 19th century abortion laws made before women could vote , were being “religiously” ignored. I That assumes truthfulness and makes sense considering that less than 1/3 of all the soldiers fighting in the Civil War were church going, praying Christians. nfbw 241209 Viasaf01339
 
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1300 39. Critical Truth Is Confirmed by Saint
While I doubt it matters to one who bullies, I am ignoring you once again. Strike Two. Any post/word from you sails right past me into the ether. In a year or so, you will (perhaps) be given one last chance, but my experience with you is one where you take posts out of context, needle, twist, refuse correction--and not worth the bother. I expect a strike out, which will happen the instant I get notice you responded to this post. Good day.
 

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