CDZ I want to present this in this forum hopefully to get some real dialogue

[whutTHEYsay]

#80 reply to #78 re: f COVID19 infection is not driving the need for extra thousands of ventilators - what is?

Why are you unable to answer my questions about your posts?

I did.

The flu deaths from previous years are immaterial because it is not a constant number. It is highly variable.

My posts identify the crisis’ main issue of record pace patients being placed on ventilators in ICU’s in New York City right now.

It does not matter why they are on ventilators. That will be documented quite well when the crisis has passed.

Right now I want you to tell me why there is a record need for new patients being placed on ventilators to breathe for them because they cannot breath in their own. Diabetes and Asthma do not drive a record need for ventilators each winter - anywhere in the world.

if COVID19 infection is not driving the extra thousands of ventilators being needed in New York City over the next six weeks or so, what is?

So answer the original questions if you can. If you can’t don’t as irrelevant ones to hide the FACT that you are stumped.

 

[Correll]

Why are you unable to answer my questions about your posts?

I did.

The flu deaths from previous years are immaterial because it is not a constant number. It is highly variable.

My posts identify the crisis
main issue of patients being placed on ventilators in ICU’s in New York City right now.

It does not matter why they are on ventilators. That will be documented quite well when the crisis has passed.

Right now I want you to tell me why there is a record need for new patients being placed on ventilators to breathe for them because they cannot breath in their own. Diabetes and Asthma do not drive a record need for ventilators each winter - anywhere in the world.

if COVID19 infection is not driving the extra thousands of ventilators being needed in New York City over the next six weeks or so what is?

So answer the original questions if you can. If you can’t don’t as irrelevant ones to hide the FACT that you are stumped.

What were the peak usage of ventilators last year?

 

[Flash]

I hope to see an intellectually honest response from sparky since we know by emoticon that sparky actually read it.

the honest answer doesn't take all that much horsepower....

~S~

read my previous post and tell me what freedom I have traded away.

...and answer why President Trump has ‘restricted’ freedom to save 2 million lives.

TrumpO asked and answered his own question:

“Think of the number — potentially 2.2 million people if we did nothing, if we didn’t do the distancing, if we didn’t do all of the things that we’re doing,”

The thing about shit sandwiches like this Pandemic is that there are no easy answers. Anything you do will have bad consequences.

If we were a country of 100 million people with a large rural population we would probably make different decisions than in a country with 330 million and all these big city shitholes.

If we did nothing to restrict freedom and nine million Americans died then we would have our freedom and maybe nine million fewer Americans. That is fine if you are one of the 321 Americans that survived and nobody that you loved or cared about was killed.

If the government did nothing about the virus then you would hear tremendous bitching about it.

If the government did something about the virus then you would hear tremendous bitching about it.

The problem we are faced with nowadays is that with seven billion humans on the planet we will have our freedom taken away. Like if a rat lived by himself on a two acre field he can do anything he wants. However, if that same rat is caged up with 20 other rats he will have very little freedom.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Post #85 reply to #82. Re: COVID19 Truther Número Uno.

What were the peak usage of ventilators last year?

what would it tell you if you knew?

This did not happen last year did it?

​

The next battlefront, the apex, could be catastrophic. All of the current plans and efforts currently in place are designed with that in mind, Cuomo says. State consultants say New York will need 75,000-110,000 COVID-only beds when the apex hits. Estimates vary as to when that will happen. On Thursday, Cuomo said his team pegs it hitting at the shorter end of a seven-to-30-day range.​

​

NY Deaths Soar 400% in Week, Cases Top 100k; National Guard Ordered to Take Ventilators

Gov. Andrew Cuomo says he has authorized the National Guard to take ventilators from institutions that don’t need them immediately and redistribute them to hospitals that do, as he reported Friday New York had seen its biggest single-day increase in deaths from the virus. The state has now lost...

www.google.com

Do you intellectually honestly believe there were was a unique health issue in NYC last year that required 75,000-110,000 extra his hospital beds and parked the USS Comfort Navy hospital should in New York harbor to catch the overflow of unrelated cases.

why is Fox News reporting this?

'Either survive or die': Fox News doc says 'at some point' COVID-19 patients 'have to come off' ventilators

Fox News medical contributor Dr. Nicole Saphier on Sunday said COVID-19 patients would soon need to be removed from ventilators even if they cannot breathe on their own."There's going to be more deaths this coming week," Saphier said on Fox & Friends. "The reason I try and explain that to people...

www.rawstory.com

I don’t recall any Fox News panic headlines from last year.

 

[Correll]

Post #85 reply to #82. Re: COVID19 Truther Número Uno.

What were the peak usage of ventilators last year?

what would it tell you if you knew?
.....

It would tell me if your sense of panic is justified or over hyped.


If the "record" is 5% than the peak last year, then I'll not care.


If the "record" is 5 times the peak last year, ok, I'll care a lot.


You keep giving me numbers, with no context. They mean nothing like that. NOTHING.

 

[sparky]

read my previous post and tell me what freedom I have traded away.

you personally NFBW?

Do you really believe 'freedom' in America orbits you?

If so you're missing the entire concept

..and answer why President Trump has ‘restricted’ freedom to save 2 million lives.

TrumpO asked and answered his own question:

“Think of the number — potentially 2.2 million people if we did nothing, if we didn’t do the distancing, if we didn’t do all of the things that we’re doing,”

So just what makes this whole pandemic mitigation depend on governance to you?

Does it occur to you that the 'peoples response' to many other pandemics in history was every bit as morally and ethically correct w/out their guidance ,directives, or jackbooted heel on our necks?

~S~

 

[whutTHEYsay]

#86 reply to #85

It would tell me if your sense of panic is justified or over hyped.

I have no sense of panic. The number of Ventilators in NYC hospitalsb last year has nothing to with the need for 75 thousand right now over an eight week period.

There was no surge in lung failures in NYC Last year. If 75,000 extra ventilators were needed last year and 630 hospital deaths in one day last year there would be documented report all over. Last year must have been normal. If you have reports of 75,000 ICU beds in makeshift hospitals bring them on.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

#88 reply to #86

ou personally NFBW?Do you really believe 'freedom' in America orbits you? If so you're missing the entire concept

you said I have lost freedom. I’m an American, what do you think I lost. If that’s too complex please tell what freedom you personally have lost.

 

[Correll]

#86 reply to #85

It would tell me if your sense of panic is justified or over hyped.

I have no sense of panic. The number of Ventilators in NYC hospitalsb last year has nothing to with the need for 75 thousand right now over an eight week period.

There was no surge in lung failures in NYC Last year. If 75,000 extra ventilators were needed last year and 630 hospital deaths in one day last year there would be documented report all over. Last year must have been normal. If you have reports of 75,000 ICU beds in makeshift hospitals bring them on.

Your assumptions about last year, are just guesses made to support your panic mongering about this year.

 

[sparky]

#88 reply to #86

ou personally NFBW?Do you really believe 'freedom' in America orbits you? If so you're missing the entire concept

you said I have lost freedom. I’m an American, what do you think I lost. If that’s too complex please tell what freedom you personally have lost.

freedom is a collective metric applicable to any given populace as a whole NFBW

IE> if someone's freedoms are abused, we all as a nation, go down a notch

fascism, otoh, is very insidious , in our case 9/11 brought out the Patriot Act, Homeland Insecurity, TSA, etc

These have all diminished 'freedom in America' for all American citizens

Sorts that sit and wonder how they personally have been affected remind me of the stories my father told me about rolling into German towns in WW2, who's citizens were fat & happy , because nothing had affected THEM

~S~

 

[jwoodie]

I'm using that article as an example because I use the term intellectual honesty a lot- Rush, is a great example as well as our own beloved, I'm sure, PoliticalChic- I've said for years Rush is very intelligent, but he is hyper-partisan. I've told our very own, beloved, I'm sure, PoliticalChic, the same thing- I give them their just due for their intelligence, (and I'll add now, their tenacity as there is a lot to be said for that trait) but I can't abide their hyper-partisan intellect.

Your post is a great example of your inability to comprehend intellectual honesty, let alone practice it. First of all, partisanship does not preclude intellectual honesty. One can root for a particular sports team (or political party) without being intellectually dishonest about the strengths and weaknesses of that team. Unless it is you doing the rooting.

 

[Toro]

I don't easily abide monologues-

I want to talk about intellectual honesty. I posted this in another thread

Rush Limbaugh Floats Theory That Coronavirus Deaths Are Being Inflated to Push an Agenda

Conservative talk-radio host and recent Presidential Medal of Freedom honoree Rush Limbaugh on Thursday floated the theory that deaths from coronavirus have been inflated so that governments could further “the policies they have put in place.”Citing the latest record-breaking unemployment claims...

www.yahoo.com

I'm using that article as an example because I use the term intellectual honesty a lot- Rush, is a great example as well as our own beloved, I'm sure, PoliticalChic- I've said for years Rush is very intelligent, but he is hyper-partisan. I've told our very own, beloved, I'm sure, PoliticalChic, the same thing- I give them their just due for their intelligence, (and I'll add now, their tenacity as there is a lot to be said for that trait) but I can't abide their hyper-partisan intellect. Both are intelligent enough to know better and the evidence is overwhelming that there is very little difference in the Party elite outside their rhetoric, which is used as a tool to keep citizens divided. Any half wit can see there is no difference. Hitting a brick wall at 100 or at 90 still is hitting a brick wall. The only (maybe) difference is the rate of descent to the same destination- and that rate of descent is accelerating almost daily.

In the article it says what it says- I'm not going to give away the punch line- you have to read it and make your own determination.

Rush Limbaugh is a retard.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

#93 reply to #89

Your assumptions about last year, are just guesses made to support your panic mongering about this year.

It was not an assumption. You owe me a report from last year. Why can’t you find one.

If 75,000 extra ventilators were needed last year and there was 630 hospital deaths in one day last year there would be documented reports about it all all over.

If you have reports that there were 75,000 extra ICU beds with patients on ventilators in makeshift hospitals all over NYC :
bring your report on.

It’s not up to me to prove something that did not happen as evidenced by no reports that it did happen.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

#93 reply to #46 re: The 30,000 DJIA is all that mattered a couple of months or so ago in the White House.

A month or so ago Trump was sitting on an economy that was absolutely booming.

Yes, with a novel Coronavirus spreading around the world the most important thing to Trump and his supporters was the economy. Trump closed the border with China. The virus was stopped no risk to Americans.

Post #1

Can you imagine pushing 30,000 on the stock market a few weeks before election?......I CAN!!!!

Yes, a month or so ago was very interesting.

Remarks by President Trump, Vice President Pence, and Members of the Coronavirus Task Force in Press Conference | The White House. James S. Brady Press Briefing Room. February 26, 2020 6:37 P.M. EST​

THE PRESIDENT: Because of all we’ve done, the risk to the American people remains very low.​

Did you know that by the end of February 2020TRUMP’s spending pace extrapolated through the full fiscal year would lead to a $1.5 trillion deficit before any additional spending $2 trillion to save the economy from what the PRESIDENT said on February 25! That Because of all he did, the risk to the American people was very low.

Trump could not afford to shut down the economy because he can’t get re-elected without a 30,000 DJIA as Purge says.

 

[Faun]

I don't easily abide monologues-

I want to talk about intellectual honesty. I posted this in another thread

Rush Limbaugh Floats Theory That Coronavirus Deaths Are Being Inflated to Push an Agenda

Conservative talk-radio host and recent Presidential Medal of Freedom honoree Rush Limbaugh on Thursday floated the theory that deaths from coronavirus have been inflated so that governments could further “the policies they have put in place.”Citing the latest record-breaking unemployment claims...

www.yahoo.com

I'm using that article as an example because I use the term intellectual honesty a lot- Rush, is a great example as well as our own beloved, I'm sure, PoliticalChic- I've said for years Rush is very intelligent, but he is hyper-partisan. I've told our very own, beloved, I'm sure, PoliticalChic, the same thing- I give them their just due for their intelligence, (and I'll add now, their tenacity as there is a lot to be said for that trait) but I can't abide their hyper-partisan intellect. Both are intelligent enough to know better and the evidence is overwhelming that there is very little difference in the Party elite outside their rhetoric, which is used as a tool to keep citizens divided. Any half wit can see there is no difference. Hitting a brick wall at 100 or at 90 still is hitting a brick wall. The only (maybe) difference is the rate of descent to the same destination- and that rate of descent is accelerating almost daily.

In the article it says what it says- I'm not going to give away the punch line- you have to read it and make your own determination.

Can you post conspiracy crap from the nation's leading dispenser of conspiracy crap in this zone?

Can you read the thread and answer the topic or go back to your hole ?

The topic is conspiracy theory nonsense. Doesn't belong in this zone.

The temptation for libs in hospitals to count deaths as Convid-19, to undermine the President is real.

Denying that, is not credible.

 

[Faun]

#48 reply to Post from another thread re; C19 is just the flu.

It is- as was h1n1 and all previous strains and there was no hysteria- this is all media bullshit because they don't like Trump and will sell their souls just to be able to hate him publicly.

For one, H1N1 didn't spread nearly as fast as this nor was it as deadly when comparing similar time spans.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

#97 reply to #23 Re: USA libs in Italian hospitals overcounting C19 patients to depose Trump.

. The temptation for libs in hospitals to count deaths as Convid-19, to undermine the President is real. Denying that, is not credible.

We do have a death count from Italy reported in the Lib Rag WSJ.

Italy’s Coronavirus Death Toll Is Far Higher Than Reported “Many are dying uncounted as nation’s stretched health-care system struggles to save the living and accurately gauge human cost”

Italy’s Coronavirus Death Toll Is Far Higher Than Reported

Italy is undercounting thousands of deaths caused by the virus in the areas worst hit by the pandemic, a WSJ analysis shows, indicating the human toll may end up being much greater than official data indicate.

www.google.com

​

In the areas worst hit by the pandemic, Italy is undercounting thousands of deaths caused by the virus, a Wall Street Journal analysis shows, indicating that the pandemic’s human toll may end up being much greater, and infections far more widespread, than official data indicate.​

Italy’s hidden death toll shows what could lie in store for the worst-hit areas of the U.S., Europe and many other countries in the weeks ahead if the coronavirus is not tamed fast. The burden that the pandemic puts on health-care systems can cause so many deaths that it is hard to gauge the full human cost.​

As stretched and sometimes overwhelmed hospitals fight to save their patients, many other people die unseen and uncounted, including elderly people in out-of-the-way locations. In addition, the health-care crisis can lead to a surge of deaths from other causes that would normally be treatable.​

Is the WSJ fake news?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

#98 reply to Post #49 Re: comparing abnormal 2020 flu deaths to normal years’ flu deaths requires huge asterisks

. And why did you not include the normal flu numbers for comparison? Cause that is your question.

The honest truth demands that you explain to all the readers here exactly why you are demanding that this years’ flu numbers be compared to flu numbers from any previous year’s numbers.

To paraphrase the OP - any half-wit should know that there is nothing normal about this years flu numbers because schools, businesses, bars and restaurants, airports etc have been closed for weeks in an effort to slow the spread of infections down to reduce the numbers of flu patients needing hospitalization and ICU beds.

For god’s sake I saw a tv report
Yesterday showing NYC transit workers out in force in hazmat suits wiping down screens at kiosks and, handrails and turnstiles entering the subway, all to kill this one particular virus. Have you ever seen it before en masse anywhere, ever?

Every half-wit would know that you cannot compare this abnormal year to any previous year with the intent to show this years’ flu numbers are no differnt than all previous ‘normal’ years.

That is an idiotic request by you, please explain why you keep making it. .

 

[Correll]

#93 reply to #89

Your assumptions about last year, are just guesses made to support your panic mongering about this year.

It was not an assumption. You owe me a report from last year. Why can’t you find one.

If 75,000 extra ventilators were needed last year and there was 630 hospital deaths in one day last year there would be documented reports about it all all over.

If you have reports that there were 75,000 extra ICU beds with patients on ventilators in makeshift hospitals all over NYC :
bring your report on.

It’s not up to me to prove something that did not happen as evidenced by no reports that it did happen.

You are the one making the claim that this year is so terrible.


That puts it on you to provide the context.

 

[Correll]

I don't easily abide monologues-

I want to talk about intellectual honesty. I posted this in another thread

Rush Limbaugh Floats Theory That Coronavirus Deaths Are Being Inflated to Push an Agenda

Conservative talk-radio host and recent Presidential Medal of Freedom honoree Rush Limbaugh on Thursday floated the theory that deaths from coronavirus have been inflated so that governments could further “the policies they have put in place.”Citing the latest record-breaking unemployment claims...

www.yahoo.com

I'm using that article as an example because I use the term intellectual honesty a lot- Rush, is a great example as well as our own beloved, I'm sure, PoliticalChic- I've said for years Rush is very intelligent, but he is hyper-partisan. I've told our very own, beloved, I'm sure, PoliticalChic, the same thing- I give them their just due for their intelligence, (and I'll add now, their tenacity as there is a lot to be said for that trait) but I can't abide their hyper-partisan intellect. Both are intelligent enough to know better and the evidence is overwhelming that there is very little difference in the Party elite outside their rhetoric, which is used as a tool to keep citizens divided. Any half wit can see there is no difference. Hitting a brick wall at 100 or at 90 still is hitting a brick wall. The only (maybe) difference is the rate of descent to the same destination- and that rate of descent is accelerating almost daily.

In the article it says what it says- I'm not going to give away the punch line- you have to read it and make your own determination.

Can you post conspiracy crap from the nation's leading dispenser of conspiracy crap in this zone?

Can you read the thread and answer the topic or go back to your hole ?

The topic is conspiracy theory nonsense. Doesn't belong in this zone.

The temptation for libs in hospitals to count deaths as Convid-19, to undermine the President is real.

Denying that, is not credible.

You libs have shown that you invent reasons to put your partisan gain ahead of professional responsibilities at ever turn.

So, your pretense otherwise, is just you defending your side's bad behavior.