I now support a consumption tax over a flat tax......

[S.J.]

I am not against a consumpton tax...but I can't see it being effective. Know a hybrid of a flat tax and a consumption tax on luxury items, alcohol, taxes, and abortions....that could work. 5% tax across the board...the rest to be made up on a luxury item consumption tax. That would include cars, homes, watercraft, tampons, jewelry, mayonnaise...you get the point....the only thing that would have to get approved each year by Congress would be the items on the luxury tax list.

In addition, any product not made in the USA...an additional tax.

Homes are a necessity.

You don't have to buy, you can rent.

 

[Brain357]

I am not against a consumpton tax...but I can't see it being effective. Know a hybrid of a flat tax and a consumption tax on luxury items, alcohol, taxes, and abortions....that could work. 5% tax across the board...the rest to be made up on a luxury item consumption tax. That would include cars, homes, watercraft, tampons, jewelry, mayonnaise...you get the point....the only thing that would have to get approved each year by Congress would be the items on the luxury tax list.

In addition, any product not made in the USA...an additional tax.

Homes are a necessity.

You don't have to buy, you can rent.

I don't think you want to give an incentive to rent rather than buy.

 

[S.J.]

I am not against a consumpton tax...but I can't see it being effective. Know a hybrid of a flat tax and a consumption tax on luxury items, alcohol, taxes, and abortions....that could work. 5% tax across the board...the rest to be made up on a luxury item consumption tax. That would include cars, homes, watercraft, tampons, jewelry, mayonnaise...you get the point....the only thing that would have to get approved each year by Congress would be the items on the luxury tax list.

In addition, any product not made in the USA...an additional tax.

Homes are a necessity.

You don't have to buy, you can rent.

I don't think you want to give an incentive to rent rather than buy.

Nobody owes you anything. The Constitution doesn't entitle everyone to a house. If you can afford one, fine. If you can't, try working harder to succeed so you CAN.

 

[Brain357]

I am not against a consumpton tax...but I can't see it being effective. Know a hybrid of a flat tax and a consumption tax on luxury items, alcohol, taxes, and abortions....that could work. 5% tax across the board...the rest to be made up on a luxury item consumption tax. That would include cars, homes, watercraft, tampons, jewelry, mayonnaise...you get the point....the only thing that would have to get approved each year by Congress would be the items on the luxury tax list.

In addition, any product not made in the USA...an additional tax.

Homes are a necessity.

You don't have to buy, you can rent.

I don't think you want to give an incentive to rent rather than buy.

Nobody owes you anything. The Constitution doesn't entitle everyone to a house. If you can afford one, fine. If you can't, try working harder to succeed so you CAN.

There are a lot of industries that would be hurt by this. I wouldn't support a consumption tax on buying a house.

 

[S.J.]

I am not against a consumpton tax...but I can't see it being effective. Know a hybrid of a flat tax and a consumption tax on luxury items, alcohol, taxes, and abortions....that could work. 5% tax across the board...the rest to be made up on a luxury item consumption tax. That would include cars, homes, watercraft, tampons, jewelry, mayonnaise...you get the point....the only thing that would have to get approved each year by Congress would be the items on the luxury tax list.

In addition, any product not made in the USA...an additional tax.

Homes are a necessity.

You don't have to buy, you can rent.

I don't think you want to give an incentive to rent rather than buy.

Nobody owes you anything. The Constitution doesn't entitle everyone to a house. If you can afford one, fine. If you can't, try working harder to succeed so you CAN.

There are a lot of industries that would be hurt by this. I wouldn't support a consumption tax on buying a house.

You already have to pay tax on buying a house but who knows, with a consumption tax it might not be necessary. We would save about $13 billion a year for starters by closing down the IRS, not to mention the positive effect it would have on the economy.

 

[Brain357]

Homes are a necessity.

You don't have to buy, you can rent.

I don't think you want to give an incentive to rent rather than buy.

Nobody owes you anything. The Constitution doesn't entitle everyone to a house. If you can afford one, fine. If you can't, try working harder to succeed so you CAN.

There are a lot of industries that would be hurt by this. I wouldn't support a consumption tax on buying a house.

You already have to pay tax on buying a house but who knows, with a consumption tax it might not be necessary. We would save about $13 billion a year for starters by closing down the IRS, not to mention the positive effect it would have on the economy.

There would be some negatives. Lots of unemployed accountants.

 

[S.J.]

You don't have to buy, you can rent.

I don't think you want to give an incentive to rent rather than buy.

Nobody owes you anything. The Constitution doesn't entitle everyone to a house. If you can afford one, fine. If you can't, try working harder to succeed so you CAN.

There are a lot of industries that would be hurt by this. I wouldn't support a consumption tax on buying a house.

You already have to pay tax on buying a house but who knows, with a consumption tax it might not be necessary. We would save about $13 billion a year for starters by closing down the IRS, not to mention the positive effect it would have on the economy.

There would be some negatives. Lots of unemployed accountants.

No different than any other industry that has to adjust to changing times. If we find a new clean source of energy to replace fossil fuel should we not use it because we don't want oil workers to be out of a job?

 

[Nosmo King]

If I buy a used car for $10,000 and get taxed at a rate of say 4%, and a fellow two towns over buys a new Bentley for $89,000 will he get a 4% tax rate too? If I buy a fiberglass canoe for $200 and that same guy two towns over buys a 90 foot yacht for $300,000 wil;l our taxes be at the same rate?

If I buy a pair of jeans for $45 and the guy two towns over buys a chinchilla coat for his wife for $200,000 will the rate be the same?

In other words, will the rate be the same for basic necessities as luxuries? Wouldn't a consumption tax be a boon for the rich and a burden on the poor?

 

[EverCurious]

hmm, on the surface I'd say I'd support a consumption tax.

Sadly I don't see it flying because of the rate it would have to be set at to cover our current expenses would likely be pretty crazy sounding. Plus all those people who pay no federal tax now, would have to pay "extra"; they'd be pissed and they outnumber us...

Yes it would be interesting to see a rate. And since the lowest income people pay nothing now I don't see how they could pay nothing with a consumption tax. So it would have to be a tax increase for the poorest.

It's been discussed many times. Food would not be taxed. If you're poor, you don't buy luxury and non-essential items anyway. If you have enough money to buy booze, you have enough money to pay the tax on it. If you don't, you have no business buying it in the first place.

Personally I'd want to know if stuff like cellphones, cable, internet, clothes (Like the $200 sneakers and $300 purses my employees would always buy while complaining that they're not getting paid enough, and simultaneously refusing to work full time, or even additional hours lol), getting your nails done, and so forth would be included as "non-essentials." I'd also be curious to know how that would work with personal sales, like if I sell my car to someone, do they pay a consumption tax or is the tax only paid on new car purchases? What about leasing a car...

Would we end up with black market "tax free" sales for hair extension's and Gucci handbags on street corners? (I loved wandering through the Mexican flee markets, heh)

Of course those things are non-essentials. Food is necessary to live, cable is not. Can we be serious?

Right... because there is some rule out there that zero humor is allowed when discussing an idea! Lighten up.

I was being serious. Apparently I need to detail out exactly why I asked about these things;

You heard of that Obamaphone thing? (And frankly by extension imo, it's only a matter of time before we have subsidized internet access programs, using he same argument they used for the phones (previously it was landlines "to give the poor access to jobs and get them off assistance" was the angle - internet email, job websites, etc. It'll happen.) -- It has LONG been believed that phones/now cellphones are kind of "necessities," thus it is a completely valid question as to if they'd be taxed.

My cable and internet question arises because I have some friends who rent houses/apartments and they provide those services in their "utilities" package (with electricity, natural gas, water, trash, etc.) Which brings up the question in my head of if the renters or the owner would be paying the tax, if the owner is paying it then rent is going up, if it doesn't then the renters are going to hve to pay /more/ for those services because they won't be getting the owners "discount" rate. Again a valid question.

The clothes and nail thing was a semi-joke, but as I noted with my story, to those types they are "necessities," - was an extension on the commentary that it'd be a tax on the "poor" (aka these kids that worked for me buying that kind of overpriced shit and bitching they can't pay their bills, kind of like the people out buying booze when they shouldn't be.)

And what about resale? My brother makes a good chunk of his income buying used furniture off Craigslist then refurbishes them for resale (he's an idiot, but it /is/ how he makes most of his money.) My neighbors run a used car lot. Would they pay 0 tax or not?

That thought had lead me to pondering the lease thing on cars, so I threw that in as well.

Last line was a semi plausible joke.

 

[EverCurious]

There would be some negatives. Lots of unemployed accountants.

I doubt it, business would still have to pay for all the other crap; ssi, medicare, state taxes, etc. Personal accountants deal with estate taxes, investment tax, state tax, etc. heh

If I buy a used car for $10,000 and get taxed at a rate of say 4%, and a fellow two towns over buys a new Bentley for $89,000 will he get a 4% tax rate too? If I buy a fiberglass canoe for $200 and that same guy two towns over buys a 90 foot yacht for $300,000 wil;l our taxes be at the same rate?

If I buy a pair of jeans for $45 and the guy two towns over buys a chinchilla coat for his wife for $200,000 will the rate be the same?

In other words, will the rate be the same for basic necessities as luxuries? Wouldn't a consumption tax be a boon for the rich and a burden on the poor?

Yea, I think it would have to be a higher rate for luxury items to prevent that. Which... could get pretty complicated...

Instead of the IRS we could have the DEA Determination and Enforcement Agency.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

The economist who wrote this book.....

Popular Economics What the Rolling Stones Downton Abbey and LeBron James Can Teach You about Economics John Tamny 9781621573371 Amazon.com Books

...was on the Dennis Prager radio show today.....he once again pointed out the advantages of a consumption tax over a flat tax...and of course it makes sense....you get all your money that you work for, and only get taxed on the things you buy.....he pointed out that this way the government doesn't know how much you make, and it is a great way to cut off how much money the government can take from us in taxes.....

the whole point for me is that we need to starve the beast....giving them more tax money doesn't fix the problem....

Still paying sales tax in a flat tax system. Only thing being changed is the progressive tax system we have now. Where it's income being taxed. But instead of the existing punishing of success by taxing success more than less success, everyone regardless of income pays the same amount as is fair. Still pay taxes to states or municipality for the things you buy though. Home towns and states need their income too and as you're consuming their resources paying their taxes is also fair.

 

[Care4all]

What about buying a home, is that taxed upfront, what about buying stock, is that taxed upfront, what about buying land, is that taxed upfront, or buying a business, would that be taxed upfront.....

After all, in ALL of those cases you are spending your money on BUYING something???

I can see the same problems we have now with Congress excluding from a tax, all the things their buddies spend on and Buy with their money.

 

[2aguy]

The biggest thing.....you are only taxed if you want to be taxed....

 

[S.J.]

When income is taxed, people tend to work less and save less. A consumption tax would have the opposite effect. People would work more and save more. Income tax is regressive, consumption tax is progressive.

Income tax is devastating to some if they are hit with an unexpected expense because they still have to pay that income tax. With a consumption tax, they could stop spending for a while and recover more easily. It empowers the citizen and gives them more choices and control over their finances.

The rate of taxation and what would be taxed or not be taxed are things that would have to be ironed out but in principal, the consumption tax would be far more fair to the citizens than our current system which has become a weapon for politicians to wage class warfare.

 

[rdean]

The economist who wrote this book.....

Popular Economics What the Rolling Stones Downton Abbey and LeBron James Can Teach You about Economics John Tamny 9781621573371 Amazon.com Books

...was on the Dennis Prager radio show today.....he once again pointed out the advantages of a consumption tax over a flat tax...and of course it makes sense....you get all your money that you work for, and only get taxed on the things you buy.....he pointed out that this way the government doesn't know how much you make, and it is a great way to cut off how much money the government can take from us in taxes.....

the whole point for me is that we need to starve the beast....giving them more tax money doesn't fix the problem....

The problem are the Republicans. This policy will hurt them the most. Worse, the GOP too stupid to know that fact.

 

[peach174]

The economist who wrote this book.....

Popular Economics What the Rolling Stones Downton Abbey and LeBron James Can Teach You about Economics John Tamny 9781621573371 Amazon.com Books

...was on the Dennis Prager radio show today.....he once again pointed out the advantages of a consumption tax over a flat tax...and of course it makes sense....you get all your money that you work for, and only get taxed on the things you buy.....he pointed out that this way the government doesn't know how much you make, and it is a great way to cut off how much money the government can take from us in taxes.....

the whole point for me is that we need to starve the beast....giving them more tax money doesn't fix the problem....

The problem are the Republicans. This policy will hurt them the most. Worse, the GOP too stupid to know that fact.

The Republicans are the ones that have putting out bills that have tax reforms.
The Democrats didn't even start talking about it until the Repub's did.

They have to have something set in place where it would be difficult to raise a consumption tax. Like a super majority of votes.

 

[2aguy]

The economist who wrote this book.....

Popular Economics What the Rolling Stones Downton Abbey and LeBron James Can Teach You about Economics John Tamny 9781621573371 Amazon.com Books

...was on the Dennis Prager radio show today.....he once again pointed out the advantages of a consumption tax over a flat tax...and of course it makes sense....you get all your money that you work for, and only get taxed on the things you buy.....he pointed out that this way the government doesn't know how much you make, and it is a great way to cut off how much money the government can take from us in taxes.....

the whole point for me is that we need to starve the beast....giving them more tax money doesn't fix the problem....

The problem are the Republicans. This policy will hurt them the most. Worse, the GOP too stupid to know that fact.

the republicans support either a flat tax or a consumption tax....after hearing the economist who wrote "Popular Economics" I am leaning toward it.......and it won't hurt republicans...it is deadly to the democrats since any attempt to raise taxes will hit everyone.....not just the enemies of the democrats...

 

[EverCurious]

the republicans support either a flat tax or a consumption tax....after hearing the economist who wrote "Popular Economics" I am leaning toward it.......and it won't hurt republicans...it is deadly to the democrats since any attempt to raise taxes will hit everyone.....not just the enemies of the democrats...

Or vise versa, I, for one, am tired of the American people's pocket book's getting caught in the middle of their red vs blue pissing contests.

 

[Care4all]

What exactly will be taxed for this consumption tax?

Are home purchases taxed? Are Stock purchases taxed? etc etc.....?

 

[asaratis]

What's the rate going to be, dummy?

Have you any exempted purchases?

Have you a place that you can point to where a consumption tax
Has worked?

Try State and local sales taxes.....consumption tax.