I may have gotten the impeachment thing all wrong

[Nostra]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

The evidence is overwhelming. Let's vote to impeach.

Later in the senate:

We need more evidence because we don't have enough.

YCMTSU.

That’s not what I’m hearing... they think they have enough. But they also want more, why wouldn’t they want more?. They want the stuff Trump blocked them from getting. Can you blame them?

Yes I can. EVERY president we've had has blocked congress from shit they wanted. Executive Privilege. Look it up. They could have gone to court and the court decides what witnesses/documents Trump's administration has to give up. But they're in a fucking hurry because ELECTION! If he gets elected, they know they are fucked for another 4 years.

They said the evidence was OVERWHELMING. Why would they need more. Look up the definition of OVERWHELM. I posted it above. Go read it. They impeached him based on the evidence they gathered. That should be MORE than enough. They are looking for discovery in a trial. They should have done all of the discovery in the inquiry in the house. That's ass backwards and it's only because more shit keeps coming forward. Kinda like the Kavanaugh confirmation hearing. Dribble, dribble, dribble. They figured they could get around the courts by having the Senate do the job of the house and that's BULLSHIT.

Don't be fooled so easily. Look at it objectively.

Trump wasn't even allowed to defend himself in the House Impeachment Inquiry. Why should he give up anyFUCKINGthing.

Would you participate in your own impeachment if YOU couldn't defend yourself?

You’ve got to be joking!! Yes all presidents invoke privilege, as they should, but none have even come close to what Trump is doing. We aren’t talking about private strategy meetings or national security issues. We are talking about state department business, transcripts, complaints made by staffers to attornens and a slew of other relevant pieces to this situation.

Sigh...

Don't be duped. There is a process to get relevant data. You have to use the court system. That's the way it works and for good reason. Otherwise the only branch of Government that would count is Congress. They would (and they often do) abuse the subpoena process.

Wake the fuck up.

But....but....but Nazi was in a hurry.

 

[Thinker101]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

Seems an innocent person would want the evidence to exonerate him.

I believe this will backfire on the republican senators at the polls.

in this country its the job of the prosecution to prove guilt, not the accused to prove innocence,,,

not sure how you do it in your country,,,

yet in most every trial I’ve heard of the defense calls witnesses and produces documents to counter the charges filed against them, do they not?

Yep, only on the Perry Mason shows.

 

[The Original Tree]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

The House had their clown show and nobody on the left objected. They did what they want, silenced who they wanted, and conducted it their way. Now the Senate is doing the same, and all of a sudden it's unfair.

Let me tell you what's unfair, and that is having this impeachment without knowing who is responsible for making the charges. The so-called whistleblower is anonymous, so is the person that provided him or her the information, and they cannot be addressed.

Can you tell me why the Senate Republicans would help the Democrats after these phony charges were made; charges with no crime; charges that aren't even impeachable according to the US Constitution? It's ridiculous already. The Senate Republicans are not going to support the deep state. Election is less than a year away, if Americans don't want Trump in office anymore, that should be our decision, not the commies.

The house did an inquiry. The senate is responsible for having a trial. Two very different things and as I just said. Two wrongs, don’t make a right

And the Senate IS having a trial, but they are not about to allow the Democrats tell them how to proceed with one or extend their clown show with the House. You wanted an impeachment trial, then here it is. If you don't like how they are conducting it, then it's only fair because we didn't like how they conducted their inquiry.

why do you think it’s a clown show to see documents showing direct communication and witnesses who had direct access to trumps directives? Wouldn’t that clear Trump if he did nothing wrong?

The Clown Show ENDED at THE House. The Never Ending Subpoena Cannon has run out of gunpowder. BTW, Pelosi I think looses not just her speakership, but I think she loses her re-election bid.

 

[Slade3200]

And the Senate IS having a trial, but they are not about to allow the Democrats tell them how to proceed with one or extend their clown show with the House. You wanted an impeachment trial, then here it is. If you don't like how they are conducting it, then it's only fair because we didn't like how they conducted their inquiry.

why do you think it’s a clown show to see documents showing direct communication and witnesses who had direct access to trumps directives? Wouldn’t that clear Trump if he did nothing wrong?

The charge of abuse of power rests on the claim that the President wanted the investigation of the Bidens to advance his chances for reelection, so the only relevant witnesses or documents would have to directly show that was his motivation and clearly, the House was unable to find and such witnesses or documents so all the fuss the Democrats are making is just to extend their political stunt to advance their own political interests.

I agree that the Dems messed up emphasizing the “political interest”point. It’s very hard to prove intent, even when it’s obvious. There should be a process to follow when working with foreign countries to investigate political rivals. If that system isn’t in place then it needs to be set up. If it is in place and Trump didn’t follow it then he should be held accountable. He held up funds to progress this investigation agenda, that was deemed illegal. He used his personal attorney instead of regular channels to pursue his agenda, there could be something wrong there too. And he’s blocked information and spread false narratives in the aftermath which is not OK. There’s a lot of crap there

Trump didn't ever say he held up funds for the investigation. The Democrats made that up. Trump said he held up aid to investigate what other members of the UN were contributing. But don't listen to Trump, listen to what the Democrats concluded because Democrats can read minds. Forget about what Trump said.

Yup. He did what all presidents do. He looked into where OUR hard earned money was going and who else was contributing.

This whole thing is a giant shit show that's going to bite the Dem House in the ass.

It could if Repubs would own the narrative and be transparent with the intel. Right now they look shady as shit in the shade

 

[Nostra]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

The amendments were designed to drag the process out as far as possible, add new charges not part of the articles, and basically make the whole thing a shit show. If they allowed one side to bring in new evidence, they would have opened a floodgate.

The House was supposed to make it's case via the articles themselves, not with added bullshit afterwards.

Yup. It was up to the House to make the case, not the Senate. If the House didn't do its job then to bad.

Nobody is asking the senate to make the case. That’s up to the house managers to do. They just want permission to access and present all evidence during the trial

They have access to all the evidence they used to impeach with an "overwhelming" case.

And yet, they are begging the Senate to do another investigation.

 

[The Original Tree]

The evidence is overwhelming. Let's vote to impeach.

Later in the senate:

We need more evidence because we don't have enough.

YCMTSU.

That’s not what I’m hearing... they think they have enough. But they also want more, why wouldn’t they want more?. They want the stuff Trump blocked them from getting. Can you blame them?

Yes I can. EVERY president we've had has blocked congress from shit they wanted. Executive Privilege. Look it up. They could have gone to court and the court decides what witnesses/documents Trump's administration has to give up. But they're in a fucking hurry because ELECTION! If he gets elected, they know they are fucked for another 4 years.

They said the evidence was OVERWHELMING. Why would they need more. Look up the definition of OVERWHELM. I posted it above. Go read it. They impeached him based on the evidence they gathered. That should be MORE than enough. They are looking for discovery in a trial. They should have done all of the discovery in the inquiry in the house. That's ass backwards and it's only because more shit keeps coming forward. Kinda like the Kavanaugh confirmation hearing. Dribble, dribble, dribble. They figured they could get around the courts by having the Senate do the job of the house and that's BULLSHIT.

Don't be fooled so easily. Look at it objectively.

Trump wasn't even allowed to defend himself in the House Impeachment Inquiry. Why should he give up anyFUCKINGthing.

Would you participate in your own impeachment if YOU couldn't defend yourself?

You’ve got to be joking!! Yes all presidents invoke privilege, as they should, but none have even come close to what Trump is doing. We aren’t talking about private strategy meetings or national security issues. We are talking about state department business, transcripts, complaints made by staffers to attornens and a slew of other relevant pieces to this situation.

Sigh...

Don't be duped. There is a process to get relevant data. You have to use the court system. That's the way it works and for good reason. Otherwise the only branch of Government that would count is Congress. They would (and they often do) abuse the subpoena process.

Wake the fuck up.

But....but....but Nazi was in a hurry.

So URGENT.....Then a 33 Day Vacation and Refusal to turn over The Articles, and then follow that up with an Adolph Schiffler Filibuster.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And the Senate IS having a trial, but they are not about to allow the Democrats tell them how to proceed with one or extend their clown show with the House. You wanted an impeachment trial, then here it is. If you don't like how they are conducting it, then it's only fair because we didn't like how they conducted their inquiry.

why do you think it’s a clown show to see documents showing direct communication and witnesses who had direct access to trumps directives? Wouldn’t that clear Trump if he did nothing wrong?

The charge of abuse of power rests on the claim that the President wanted the investigation of the Bidens to advance his chances for reelection, so the only relevant witnesses or documents would have to directly show that was his motivation and clearly, the House was unable to find and such witnesses or documents so all the fuss the Democrats are making is just to extend their political stunt to advance their own political interests.

I agree that the Dems messed up emphasizing the “political interest”point. It’s very hard to prove intent, even when it’s obvious. There should be a process to follow when working with foreign countries to investigate political rivals. If that system isn’t in place then it needs to be set up. If it is in place and Trump didn’t follow it then he should be held accountable. He held up funds to progress this investigation agenda, that was deemed illegal. He used his personal attorney instead of regular channels to pursue his agenda, there could be something wrong there too. And he’s blocked information and spread false narratives in the aftermath which is not OK. There’s a lot of crap there

Trump didn't ever say he held up funds for the investigation. The Democrats made that up. Trump said he held up aid to investigate what other members of the UN were contributing. But don't listen to Trump, listen to what the Democrats concluded because Democrats can read minds. Forget about what Trump said.

Wrong. The Dems didn’t make that up. Trumps own staffers who were in charge of the funds and relations with Ukraine testified to that. I also think you know it’s true, I would push to hard with the Trump never said it argument. We all know the intel he is blocking solidifies what he did and why. It’s going to come out eventually

What a minute, which staffers? I didn't see any. The only person to testify that he or she spoke directly with the President on the matter was ambassador Sondland, and he testified when he spoke to President Trump directly, Trump told him no quid pro quo; he didn't want anything from President Zelensky.

 

[Slade3200]

I don’t need to abandon anything. You made a horrible point. Executive priv gets enforced to questions and documents that cross that line. It does not get used to completely ignore subpoenas.

The only thing about my point that is 'horrible' is the fact that you don't like that I pointed out how Barry used the same Executive Privilege when he ordered then US AG Holder to refuse to release documents regarding Fast and Furious, that Democrats and snowflakes defended that use of Executive Privilege, but now you bitch and whine about it because this time it doe NOT benefit the Democrats.

Forget 'Executive Privilege' and the House Impeachment Manager's demand for more 'fishing' for something that MIGHT exist - it is all irrelevant and a complete distraction...

The House voted to Impeach the US President based on their already existing case - existing information they had / have. The U Senate is now asking the Democrats / House to present THAT case, THAT information - the case / information that was their foundation / justification for Impeaching the President.

THAT case, THAT evidence either warrants / justifies Impeachment or it does NOT.

WHY are the House Democrats refusing to present THAT case, THAT information?

They are presenting that case. The docs and witnesses they are asking for are just further credible accounts of what happened. We should all want to see it. You especially because it would vindicate trump without the appearance of the cover up which it currently looks like he is doing.

 

[Slade3200]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

Seems an innocent person would want the evidence to exonerate him.

I believe this will backfire on the republican senators at the polls.

in this country its the job of the prosecution to prove guilt, not the accused to prove innocence,,,

not sure how you do it in your country,,,

yet in most every trial I’ve heard of the defense calls witnesses and produces documents to counter the charges filed against them, do they not?

Wrong analogy. The trial was held. The prosecution concluded it's case. The judge ordered the jury to deliberate the case. The prosecutor can't barge into the jury room and say "I have more witnesses!!! I have more witnesses!!"

youre mixed up Ray. The House did an inquiry, not a trial. The Senates job is to handle the trial.

 

[IM2]

Seems an innocent person would want the evidence to exonerate him.

I believe this will backfire on the republican senators at the polls.

in this country its the job of the prosecution to prove guilt, not the accused to prove innocence,,,

not sure how you do it in your country,,,

yet in most every trial I’ve heard of the defense calls witnesses and produces documents to counter the charges filed against them, do they not?

Not always. When the case is so weak they often just rest their case without a defense. The House Clowns have no case, so Trump may not have to do anything.

Why is trump blocking witnesses?

To preserve Executive Privilege, for starters.

Why didn't the House Clowns take him to court?

Executive privilege doesn't apply here. The congress is the court and trump refused to testify at a hearing.

 

[Nostra]

I don’t need to abandon anything. You made a horrible point. Executive priv gets enforced to questions and documents that cross that line. It does not get used to completely ignore subpoenas.

The only thing about my point that is 'horrible' is the fact that you don't like that I pointed out how Barry used the same Executive Privilege when he ordered then US AG Holder to refuse to release documents regarding Fast and Furious, that Democrats and snowflakes defended that use of Executive Privilege, but now you bitch and whine about it because this time it doe NOT benefit the Democrats.

Forget 'Executive Privilege' and the House Impeachment Manager's demand for more 'fishing' for something that MIGHT exist - it is all irrelevant and a complete distraction...

The House voted to Impeach the US President based on their already existing case - existing information they had / have. The U Senate is now asking the Democrats / House to present THAT case, THAT information - the case / information that was their foundation / justification for Impeaching the President.

THAT case, THAT evidence either warrants / justifies Impeachment or it does NOT.

WHY are the House Democrats refusing to present THAT case, THAT information?

They are presenting that case. The docs and witnesses they are asking for are just further credible accounts of what happened. We should all want to see it. You especially because it would vindicate trump without the appearance of the cover up which it currently looks like he is doing.

The House Clowns fucked up by rushing to the Senate without going after all the info they claim they need.

That's on them. The Senate is the jury. The House investigates.....they are done.

 

[Nostra]

in this country its the job of the prosecution to prove guilt, not the accused to prove innocence,,,

not sure how you do it in your country,,,

yet in most every trial I’ve heard of the defense calls witnesses and produces documents to counter the charges filed against them, do they not?

Not always. When the case is so weak they often just rest their case without a defense. The House Clowns have no case, so Trump may not have to do anything.

Why is trump blocking witnesses?

To preserve Executive Privilege, for starters.

Why didn't the House Clowns take him to court?

Executive privilege doesn't apply here. The congress is the court and trump refused to testify at a hearing.

Yes, it does. Your ignorance is astounding, but expected. Trump wasn't asked to testify, Genius.

 

[IM2]

I don’t need to abandon anything. You made a horrible point. Executive priv gets enforced to questions and documents that cross that line. It does not get used to completely ignore subpoenas.

The only thing about my point that is 'horrible' is the fact that you don't like that I pointed out how Barry used the same Executive Privilege when he ordered then US AG Holder to refuse to release documents regarding Fast and Furious, that Democrats and snowflakes defended that use of Executive Privilege, but now you bitch and whine about it because this time it doe NOT benefit the Democrats.

Forget 'Executive Privilege' and the House Impeachment Manager's demand for more 'fishing' for something that MIGHT exist - it is all irrelevant and a complete distraction...

The House voted to Impeach the US President based on their already existing case - existing information they had / have. The U Senate is now asking the Democrats / House to present THAT case, THAT information - the case / information that was their foundation / justification for Impeaching the President.

THAT case, THAT evidence either warrants / justifies Impeachment or it does NOT.

WHY are the House Democrats refusing to present THAT case, THAT information?

They are presenting that case. The docs and witnesses they are asking for are just further credible accounts of what happened. We should all want to see it. You especially because it would vindicate trump without the appearance of the cover up which it currently looks like he is doing.

The problem here is that the witnesses will not vindicate trump.

 

[Nostra]

I don’t need to abandon anything. You made a horrible point. Executive priv gets enforced to questions and documents that cross that line. It does not get used to completely ignore subpoenas.

The only thing about my point that is 'horrible' is the fact that you don't like that I pointed out how Barry used the same Executive Privilege when he ordered then US AG Holder to refuse to release documents regarding Fast and Furious, that Democrats and snowflakes defended that use of Executive Privilege, but now you bitch and whine about it because this time it doe NOT benefit the Democrats.

Forget 'Executive Privilege' and the House Impeachment Manager's demand for more 'fishing' for something that MIGHT exist - it is all irrelevant and a complete distraction...

The House voted to Impeach the US President based on their already existing case - existing information they had / have. The U Senate is now asking the Democrats / House to present THAT case, THAT information - the case / information that was their foundation / justification for Impeaching the President.

THAT case, THAT evidence either warrants / justifies Impeachment or it does NOT.

WHY are the House Democrats refusing to present THAT case, THAT information?

They are presenting that case. The docs and witnesses they are asking for are just further credible accounts of what happened. We should all want to see it. You especially because it would vindicate trump without the appearance of the cover up which it currently looks like he is doing.

The problem here is that the witnesses will not vindicate trump.

How do you know what the witnesses would say?

 

[Slade3200]

Since the House held the whole thing behind closed doors, no one saw anything.

Haha, you’re funny.

the whole thing wasn’t behind closed doors, the depositions were. Not nobody saw anything. 47 republicans were in the room asking questions. Transcripts were then released and then there were public hearings.

You really aren’t paying attention are you? Try asking more questions and do less talking. Try and learn before you teach.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

Seems an innocent person would want the evidence to exonerate him.

I believe this will backfire on the republican senators at the polls.

in this country its the job of the prosecution to prove guilt, not the accused to prove innocence,,,

not sure how you do it in your country,,,

yet in most every trial I’ve heard of the defense calls witnesses and produces documents to counter the charges filed against them, do they not?

Wrong analogy. The trial was held. The prosecution concluded it's case. The judge ordered the jury to deliberate the case. The prosecutor can't barge into the jury room and say "I have more witnesses!!! I have more witnesses!!"

youre mixed up Ray. The House did an inquiry, not a trial. The Senates job is to handle the trial.

No, I have it right. You're the one who's mixed up. What case in history ever had two trials: one for the prosecution and one for the defense? I never heard such a case. This is not a trial, this is a judgement. You said it yourself. You said Republicans had their say in the inquiry. That's the trial. Both sides spoke, both had witnesses, the prosecution rested their case and made a decision to impeach. Now it goes to the Senate (the jury) for deliberation, not another trial.

 

[boedicca]

I don’t need to abandon anything. You made a horrible point. Executive priv gets enforced to questions and documents that cross that line. It does not get used to completely ignore subpoenas.

The only thing about my point that is 'horrible' is the fact that you don't like that I pointed out how Barry used the same Executive Privilege when he ordered then US AG Holder to refuse to release documents regarding Fast and Furious, that Democrats and snowflakes defended that use of Executive Privilege, but now you bitch and whine about it because this time it doe NOT benefit the Democrats.

Forget 'Executive Privilege' and the House Impeachment Manager's demand for more 'fishing' for something that MIGHT exist - it is all irrelevant and a complete distraction...

The House voted to Impeach the US President based on their already existing case - existing information they had / have. The U Senate is now asking the Democrats / House to present THAT case, THAT information - the case / information that was their foundation / justification for Impeaching the President.

THAT case, THAT evidence either warrants / justifies Impeachment or it does NOT.

WHY are the House Democrats refusing to present THAT case, THAT information?

They are presenting that case. The docs and witnesses they are asking for are just further credible accounts of what happened. We should all want to see it. You especially because it would vindicate trump without the appearance of the cover up which it currently looks like he is doing.

The problem here is that the witnesses will not vindicate trump.

That's not true. The "star witnesses" in the House already vindicated Trump.

And Trump doesn't have to vindicate himself. The House has to prove he was guilty of a crime. Their two impeachment charges do not involve crimes. They basically impeached him because he won in 2016, and they think that if the don't impeach him now, he'll get reelected in 2020.

 

[Slade3200]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

The evidence is overwhelming. Let's vote to impeach.

Later in the senate:

We need more evidence because we don't have enough.

YCMTSU.

That’s not what I’m hearing... they think they have enough. But they also want more, why wouldn’t they want more?. They want the stuff Trump blocked them from getting. Can you blame them?

Yes I can. EVERY president we've had has blocked congress from shit they wanted. Executive Privilege. Look it up. They could have gone to court and the court decides what witnesses/documents Trump's administration has to give up. But they're in a fucking hurry because ELECTION! If he gets elected, they know they are fucked for another 4 years.

They said the evidence was OVERWHELMING. Why would they need more. Look up the definition of OVERWHELM. I posted it above. Go read it. They impeached him based on the evidence they gathered. That should be MORE than enough. They are looking for discovery in a trial. They should have done all of the discovery in the inquiry in the house. That's ass backwards and it's only because more shit keeps coming forward. Kinda like the Kavanaugh confirmation hearing. Dribble, dribble, dribble. They figured they could get around the courts by having the Senate do the job of the house and that's BULLSHIT.

Don't be fooled so easily. Look at it objectively.

Trump wasn't even allowed to defend himself in the House Impeachment Inquiry. Why should he give up anyFUCKINGthing.

Would you participate in your own impeachment if YOU couldn't defend yourself?

You’ve got to be joking!! Yes all presidents invoke privilege, as they should, but none have even come close to what Trump is doing. We aren’t talking about private strategy meetings or national security issues. We are talking about state department business, transcripts, complaints made by staffers to attorneys and a slew of other relevant pieces to this situation.

What are you talking about? DumBama did it during Fast and Furious. He refused to surrender subpoenaed documents to the Republican House.

the Fast and Furious situation stayed in court for 7 years. And you all were bitching about Nancy holding the articles for a couple weeks?! Come on!

 

[Slade3200]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

Seems an innocent person would want the evidence to exonerate him.

I believe this will backfire on the republican senators at the polls.

in this country its the job of the prosecution to prove guilt, not the accused to prove innocence,,,

not sure how you do it in your country,,,

yet in most every trial I’ve heard of the defense calls witnesses and produces documents to counter the charges filed against them, do they not?

Yep, only on the Perry Mason shows.

I was thinking of Matlock

 

[Dick Foster]

" Serious allegations have been made against Trump, and the Senate needs to hear all the evidence to conduct a fair and impartial trial. The American public deserves to hear the evidence about allegations of interference in the 2020 election. The Oval Office and US foreign policy should not be manipulated or used for personal political gain. Witnesses and evidence will bring further clarity about whether this was a deep and coordinated effort." - Marvelous Maria Cantwell, Senator From Washington State

You want a serious accusation well here's a serious accusation for you. The democrats are attempting by illegal, unconstitutional and just plain wrong means and methods to overthrow the president of the United States with a phoney impeachment and by doing so illegally seizing control of the United States of America itself. This action is nothing short of outright treason punishable by death.
Now how's that for a serious accusation, asshole?