"I lost my job at Carrier after President Trump promised to save it"

[AntonToo]

And Carrier still got the huge tax deal from the state. An art of a deal.

Did they get millions from the government to launch a car into space????

Off topic. When you have nothing to offer, don't post.

It's not off topic, I was responding to the post above

Poorly

No you just couldn't refute what I posted..



View attachment 175370

Retard, the point is not the car, but the rocket that delivered it to space.

And it has NOTHING to do with this thread, so STFU already

 

[Wyatt earp]

Did they get millions from the government to launch a car into space????

Off topic. When you have nothing to offer, don't post.

It's not off topic, I was responding to the post above

Poorly

No you just couldn't refute what I posted..



View attachment 175370

Retard the point is not the car, but the rocket that delivered it to space.

No the point is Elon uses the government as a cash cow, duh!!!!


.

 

[Siete]

Trump can run his mouth until the world gets flat - hes not held accountable for a damn word and he knows it.

he will get his due sooner than later.

TICK TICK TICK TICK TICK

 

[Wry Catcher]

Off topic. When you have nothing to offer, don't post.

It's not off topic, I was responding to the post above

Poorly

No you just couldn't refute what I posted..



View attachment 175370

Retard the point is not the car, but the rocket that delivered it to space.

No the point is Elon uses the government as a cash cow, duh!!!!


.

How do you think the Transcontinental R.R. was funded? Do you understand how that aided the development of the West? Subsidizing space will payoff in the future in many ways, intended and later discovered.

 

[Wyatt earp]

It's not off topic, I was responding to the post above

Poorly

No you just couldn't refute what I posted..



View attachment 175370

Retard the point is not the car, but the rocket that delivered it to space.

No the point is Elon uses the government as a cash cow, duh!!!!


.

How do you think the Transcontinental R.R. was funded? Do you understand how that aided the development of the West? Subsidizing space will payoff in the future in many ways, intended and later discovered.

.

 

[Wyatt earp]

It's not off topic, I was responding to the post above

Poorly

No you just couldn't refute what I posted..



View attachment 175370

Retard the point is not the car, but the rocket that delivered it to space.

No the point is Elon uses the government as a cash cow, duh!!!!


.

How do you think the Transcontinental R.R. was funded? Do you understand how that aided the development of the West? Subsidizing space will payoff in the future in many ways, intended and later discovered.

Wait a second so now you are sponsoring a aristocracy?????

 

[Wry Catcher]

Poorly

No you just couldn't refute what I posted..



View attachment 175370

Retard the point is not the car, but the rocket that delivered it to space.

No the point is Elon uses the government as a cash cow, duh!!!!


.

How do you think the Transcontinental R.R. was funded? Do you understand how that aided the development of the West? Subsidizing space will payoff in the future in many ways, intended and later discovered.

Wait a second so now you are sponsoring a aristocracy?????

Huh, I'm totally opposed to giving in to special interests. Space X is a public - private enterprise. As would giving taxpayer money to private contractors to rebuild, renew or replace our rusting, crumbling infrastructure.

The R.R. subsidies created great wealth for the BIG Four, but its benefits opened up the west; subsidies to the private sector is not a new idea, and if the government "owned" it, cries of "Socialism" would be divisive, and instead of building a horse we would end up with a camel.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

What kind of idiot thought a President would save his job?
And he never promised anything of the kind.

The same kind of idiot who still believes that President Trump is competent and a capable leader.

There are many books written on leadership, but in one simple paragraph I can define what a leader is not:

When faced with making a decision, a fuax leader asks him or her self this question first. He or she will ponder how will this decision effect me. Will it help me, or might it harm me. It is always about them, and only then if they decide it will not harm them if things go wrong, they will they make the decision of go.

But when they say go, they make it clear that the responsibility for failure is someone else. They generally do put others at risk, and when things go wrong they fire them. When things go well they pump their chest.

Not arguing...but that also applies to Obama and Bush

 

[Wyatt earp]

No you just couldn't refute what I posted..



View attachment 175370

Retard the point is not the car, but the rocket that delivered it to space.

No the point is Elon uses the government as a cash cow, duh!!!!


.

How do you think the Transcontinental R.R. was funded? Do you understand how that aided the development of the West? Subsidizing space will payoff in the future in many ways, intended and later discovered.

Wait a second so now you are sponsoring a aristocracy?????

Huh, I'm totally opposed to giving in to special interests. Space X is a public - private enterprise. As would giving taxpayer money to private contractors to rebuild, renew or replace our rusting, crumbling infrastructure.

The R.R. subsidies created great wealth for the BIG Four, but its benefits opened up the west; subsidies to the private sector is not a new idea, and if the government "owned" it, cries of "Socialism" would be divisive, and instead of building a horse we would end up with a camel.

Not me...



Their is space alliens on the moon this documentary of apollo 18 confirms it.





And what's up with this on mars?

 

[Wyatt earp]

Trump can run his mouth until the world gets flat - hes not held accountable for a damn word and he knows it.

he will get his due sooner than later.

TICK TICK TICK TICK TICK

Hillary would be in jail first before Trump ever would...admit it it's all over.

 

[Wry Catcher]

What kind of idiot thought a President would save his job?
And he never promised anything of the kind.

The same kind of idiot who still believes that President Trump is competent and a capable leader.

There are many books written on leadership, but in one simple paragraph I can define what a leader is not:

When faced with making a decision, a fuax leader asks him or her self this question first. He or she will ponder how will this decision effect me. Will it help me, or might it harm me. It is always about them, and only then if they decide it will not harm them if things go wrong, they will they make the decision of go.

But when they say go, they make it clear that the responsibility for failure is someone else. They generally do put others at risk, and when things go wrong they fire them. When things go well they pump their chest.

Not arguing...but that also applies to Obama and Bush

I don't recall Bush II or Obama firing publicly, or criticizing any member of their team in public as does Trump. Also, both Trump and Obama took risks, didn't blame others when there were failures, and both gave credit when credit was do.

Trump gives credit in the most insincere manner possible.

 

[usmbguest5318]

I lost my job at Carrier after President Trump promised to save it

"I feel betrayed and deceived — as if President Trump used my pain, and the pain of working class America, simply to win political points." -- Laid-off Carrier worker

Impeach 45 NOW!

While I suspect I understand what words and deeds gave rise to Mr. Franklin's lamentation, as part of an argument a third-party makes for (1) impeachment and (2) highlighting Trump's dissemblance, it's ineffectual. It falls flat because Trump most certainly did not pledge to save any single/specific worker's job. The substance (explicit and implied) of Trump's claim re: Carrier is that his efforts resulted in producing a net retention in the U.S. of 1100 UTC-Carrier jobs in Indiana.

I called Greg and I said, “It’s really important, we have to do something. Because you have a lot of people leaving and you have to understand, we can’t allow this to happen anymore with our country. So many jobs are leaving and going to other countries. Not just Mexico, many, many countries. And China is making so much of our product that we’re closing up a lot of plants.”

And I mean, I wrote down some numbers that are incredible, but the numbers of manufacturing jobs that are lost, especially in the Rust Belt — and the Rust Belt is so incredible. But we’re losing companies, it’s — it’s unbelievable, one after another, just one after another.

So I said, “Greg, you’ve got to help us out here. We got to sit down. We got to do something.” And I said, “Because we just can’t let it happen.”

But I will tell you that United Technologies and Carrier stepped it up and now they’re keeping — actually the number’s over 1,100 people, which is so great, which is so great....And by the way, that number is going to go up very substantially as they expand this area, this plant. So the 1,100 is going to be a minimum number.
-- Donald Trump, jobs speech delivered at Carrier​

That said, a different section of Mr. Franklin's essay does indeed contain content that quite strongly illustrates yet another instance of Trump's misrepresentation of the impact/value of whatever he and UTC-Carrier executives discussed and/or agreed upon. Mr. Franklin writes:

As of July 20, 2017, I was laid off, due to Carrier’s parent company United Technologies Corporation deciding to send away my job along with more than 600 of my coworkers (which is more than half the employees) at the Indianapolis plant, plus another 700 workers at our sister plant in Huntington, Indiana, which was completely shut down!
-- Quinton Franklin, laid off Carrier worker​

According to Trump's speech, UTC-Carrier had 10,000 employees at it's plants in Indiana and it had, per Trump and prior to his intervention, announced that it would lay off 1100 of them. While we cannot say what exactly led to Mr. Franklin losing his job, we can say for sure that Trump's remarks indicated that the workers holding 1100 Carrier jobs would not in fact lose their jobs due to UTC-Carrier moving its factory operations to another country. Well, one needn't be that good at math to see that 1300 is a larger number than is 1100 and that because it is, whatever Trump and Hayes discussed did not result in UTC-Carrier retaining in the U.S. whatever ~1100 factory worker jobs Trump appeared to have been talking about.

What exactly did Hayes and Trump agree to or discuss? I don't really know, but TC-Carrier issued the following statement:

"[Carrier] continues to honor its 2016 commitment to employ approximately 1,100 associates in Indianapolis. As announced in November, this includes headquarters and engineering jobs and more than 800 employees supporting our world-class gas furnace manufacturing center."​

So what did UTC-Carrier do? It kept its headquarters and gas furnace manufacturing in Indy. Well, did anyone actually think Carrier was going to move its HQ outside of the U.S? Even Trump didn't think that was something UTC-Carrier was considering and he said as much in his speech. (Nevermind that he referred to his thinking to that effect using the word "euphemism" rather than "hyperbole" or "exaggeration.") Who among the factory-floor workers in attendance at that event thought, or who later heard (heard about) the speech, given all Trump's campaign rhetoric about "working people" (that euphemism for non-senior management/-highly-paid personnel is one I've never cared for...Who the hell isn't a working person?) that Trump was talking about the cadre of white collar workers at UTC-Carrier's headquarters?

Did Trump specifically say that air conditioner manufacturing employees would not lose their jobs? No, he didn't; he played "fast and loose," incoherent, way of speaking, he didn't specifically refute the attestation Carrier had some time before made about laying off some ~1100 workers, and let members of the audience infer whatever they wanted to out of his remarks. And, as is typical, nobody pressed him about specifically what jobs he was asserting would be retained in the U.S.

Now whether anyone with any sense at all should have inferred that Trump meant that 1100 factory-worker jobs would be retained is a wholly different matter. Insofar as Carrier had, by December 2016, already commenced construction of its new factory in Mexico and announced that it'd lay-off some 1100 workers in the U.S., it was highly unlikely that anything Trump said or did would have altered Carrier's decision to move the applicable share of it's factory operations.

Surely one doesn't think companies like Carrier, GM, and Ford are going to continue production operations in the U.S. and pay people $20+/hour to physically assemble/build cars and air conditioners?

So what did UTC-Carrier do? They sat down and talked with Trump and the Indiana governor and, in exchange for, what, $7M, agreed to do something they were already of a mind to do: keep their headquarters and the back-office jobs performed in headquarters and the gas manufacturing line of business's administrative offices, in the U.S.

The situation wouldn't have been any different under Hillary. Like most here are saying, it is a mistake to put faith in a politician. Which is why I am amused when folks reply that I'm throwing away my vote when those times I choose not to select a (R) or (D).

The situation wouldn't have been any different under Hillary.

That may be, but what matters is that Trump, not anyone else, implied that, as a result of his intervention and conversations with Greg Hayes, Carrier's CEO, UTC-Carrier would retain the 1100 jobs Carrier had announced would eliminate from its U.S. payroll, and now we learn that in fact UTC-Carrier "exported" 1300 jobs out of the U.S. Quinton Franklin isn't the only person who took Trump's remarks to mean that factory workers' jobs would be the ones retained in the U .S.

• Trump tells Mexico bound Carrier, no way Jose
  
• Carrier workers facing layoffs feel betrayed by Trump
  
• Trump's Carrier Coup
  
  
  

​

I'm sure the reason Trump, Pence and Carrier's execs ambled about the factory floor to convey the sense that administrative jobs at headquarters would be saved. Not!

Like most here are saying, it is a mistake to put faith in a politician.

Well, that's certainly so if Trump is the politician in whose words one might put any measure of trust.