I helped Teenagers get Secret Abortions

[Agnapostate]

I helped Teenagers get Secret Abortions - SteelRigged - Open Salon

I spent my first year as a law student helping teenagers get abortions. I worked the phones at a small non-profit called Jane's Due Process, which as far as I know, is the only organization in the country that helps teens navigate the judicial bypass process to get abortions without parental consent or notification. (You should Google it and make a donation right now.) I am now a volunteer attorney for them. It is righteous work. I am paranoid about telling people I about it. I often leave it off my resume.

Bill O'Reilly may snarl that the "left wing" is trying to silence him, but he has a TV show. Its people like me, and the girls I work with, who have truly been silenced. We are the ones who are staring down the barrel of a gun.

Everybody loves parental consent laws for abortion. They are an easy sell. Who wouldn't want parents involved in the medical decisions of their daughter; and as the pundits are quick to point out the vast majority of teens approach their parents first anyway, so this law only affects a small number of young women. What that means in practice is that the only people truly affected are the people you would least like to see affected: abused teens, abandoned teens, and teen in situations of novel dysfunction.

Interesting piece, though my own argument against parental notification/abortion laws lies in the fact that the empirical research generally indicates sufficient competence of reproductive minors to make informed and rational decisions about such matters.

 

[Againsheila]

I helped Teenagers get Secret Abortions - SteelRigged - Open Salon

I spent my first year as a law student helping teenagers get abortions. I worked the phones at a small non-profit called Jane's Due Process, which as far as I know, is the only organization in the country that helps teens navigate the judicial bypass process to get abortions without parental consent or notification. (You should Google it and make a donation right now.) I am now a volunteer attorney for them. It is righteous work. I am paranoid about telling people I about it. I often leave it off my resume.

Bill O'Reilly may snarl that the "left wing" is trying to silence him, but he has a TV show. Its people like me, and the girls I work with, who have truly been silenced. We are the ones who are staring down the barrel of a gun.

Everybody loves parental consent laws for abortion. They are an easy sell. Who wouldn't want parents involved in the medical decisions of their daughter; and as the pundits are quick to point out the vast majority of teens approach their parents first anyway, so this law only affects a small number of young women. What that means in practice is that the only people truly affected are the people you would least like to see affected: abused teens, abandoned teens, and teen in situations of novel dysfunction.

Interesting piece, though my own argument against parental notification/abortion laws lies in the fact that the empirical research generally indicates sufficient competence of reproductive minors to make informed and rational decisions about such matters.

If anything goes wrong, you can die and if the parents don't know to watch for symptoms, then they won't know what's wrong and may not get help in time. It's stupid for a kid to get an abortion without parental notification. If you don't trust your parents enough, go to court and get placed in a home where you can trust them. Otherwise, with this outpatient surgery, you are putting young girls lives in danger.

 

[Agnapostate]

If anything goes wrong, you can die and if the parents don't know to watch for symptoms, then they won't know what's wrong and may not get help in time. It's stupid for a kid to get an abortion without parental notification.

This operates on the assumption that the individuals in question are mere objects or pets incapable of independent thought and reasoning, entirely dependent on their parents to make conscious decisions for them. I won't accept that premise to begin with; the empirical research that indicates that adolescents generally possess the ability to make rational and informed decisions about medical treatment won't allow me to.

If you don't trust your parents enough, go to court and get placed in a home where you can trust them. Otherwise, with this outpatient surgery, you are putting young girls lives in danger.

But then you're confronted with precisely the problem that this piece documents: existing realities are often sharply divergent from ideal legal provisions.

 

[AllieBaba]

I helped Teenagers get Secret Abortions - SteelRigged - Open Salon

I spent my first year as a law student helping teenagers get abortions. I worked the phones at a small non-profit called Jane's Due Process, which as far as I know, is the only organization in the country that helps teens navigate the judicial bypass process to get abortions without parental consent or notification. (You should Google it and make a donation right now.) I am now a volunteer attorney for them. It is righteous work. I am paranoid about telling people I about it. I often leave it off my resume.

Bill O'Reilly may snarl that the "left wing" is trying to silence him, but he has a TV show. Its people like me, and the girls I work with, who have truly been silenced. We are the ones who are staring down the barrel of a gun.

Everybody loves parental consent laws for abortion. They are an easy sell. Who wouldn't want parents involved in the medical decisions of their daughter; and as the pundits are quick to point out the vast majority of teens approach their parents first anyway, so this law only affects a small number of young women. What that means in practice is that the only people truly affected are the people you would least like to see affected: abused teens, abandoned teens, and teen in situations of novel dysfunction.

Interesting piece, though my own argument against parental notification/abortion laws lies in the fact that the empirical research generally indicates sufficient competence of reproductive minors to make informed and rational decisions about such matters.

Your child porn collection does not constitute "empirical research"

 

[Agnapostate]

Your child porn collection does not constitute "empirical research"

Indeed not, Christfag! But what of...heh...studies? Not the kind of stuff you hear about while you're watching the 700 Club, I guess, but still damn good for us empirically-minded folk.

 

[AllieBaba]

No link?

You wouldn't think someone who was into the "alternative" lifestyle of child-rapery would use the term "fag" as an insult, would you?

 

[Valerie]

Parental notification at the very least...Responsible for an informed decision.

 

[Agnapostate]

No link?

You wouldn't think someone who was into the "alternative" lifestyle of child-rapery would use the term "fag" as an insult, would you?

First of all, few people here are stupid enough to buy your lame NAMBLA = Gay Rights talking point; it's almost as pathetic as your NAMBLA = Youth Rights talking point. Give it up.

Next, all previous signs have indicated that providing you with evidence and arguments is a waste of my time, since you always dismiss them with one-liners and retain your original position based on primitive ideological dogma rather than empirical research. Regardless, I'm an optimist...

A few random drawings from the literature reveals empirical analyses such as that of Weithorn and Campbell in The Competency of Children and Adolescents to Make Informed Treatment Decisions:

In general, minors aged 14 were found to demonstrate a level of competency equivalent to that of adults, according to four standards of competency (evidence of choice, reasonable outcome, rational reasons, and understanding), and for four hypothetical dilemmas (diabetes, epilepsy, depression and enuresis.)…The findings of this research do not lend support to policies which deny adolescents the right of self-determination in treatment situations on the basis of a presumption of incapacity to provide informed consent. The ages of eighteen or twenty-one as the “cutoffs” below which individuals are presumed to be incompetent to make determinations about their own welfare do not reflect the psychological capacities of most adolescents.

The earlier study of researchers Grisso and Vierling, Minors’ Consent to Treatment: A Developmental Perspective, came to a similar conclusion, the authors stating the following:

[E]xisting evidence provides no legal assumption that minors aged 15 years and above cannot provide competent consent.

Researchers Bruce Ambuel and Julian Rappaport discovered similar results in a study intended to specifically focus on the topic of minors' competence to provide informed consent to abortion, entitled Developmental trends in adolescents' psychological and legal competence to consent to abortion. The study confirmed the fact that the rational judgment and decision making capacities of adolescents, (particularly those at or beyond mid-adolescence), were often on par with those of adults. Consider the abstract:

We examine an underlying presumption that minors are not competent to consent to abortion. Participants (N=75 age 13–21, seeking a pregnancy test at a women's medical clinic) completed an interview that was audiotaped and scored on four cognitive and volitional criteria of legal competence. Competence was compared in three age groups (15; 16–17; 18–21) for participants who considered abortion and for those who did not. Adolescents age 16–17 and adolescents 15, who considered abortion, appeared as competent as legal adults; only15-year-old adolescents who did not consider abortion appeared less competent. Regression analysis was used to identify psychosocial predictors of competence. Results challenge the presumption that minors are not competent. An alternate policy based upon informed consent and empowerment of minors as decision makers is proposed.

In a wide-ranging review of the developmental literature on adolescents’ abilities to make rational decisions about medical treatment, entitled Children And Adolescents’ Capacity To Provide Informed Consent For Participation In Research researchers Kuther and Posada noted this:

[T]he literature in developmental psychology has shown that adolescents are able to make meaningful decisions and advocates for youth have argued that researchers must respect the autonomy rights of children and adolescents.

To a significant extent, this confirmed the legitimacy and soundness of the previous studies. We should also keep in mind that the deliberate infantilization of youth as manifested through the establishment of repressive age restrictions plays an integral role in preventing them from acquiring the sort of skills and abilities that would incline others to consider them "mentally competent."

 

[AllieBaba]

Pederastate is having a hard time finding legal links to his "empirical research," I take it.

 

[AllieBaba]

Oh Lord I should have seen the gaseous blow building up.

 

[Agnapostate]

Pederastate is having a hard time finding legal links to his "empirical research," I take it.

You don't read before you post, I take it.

 

[Agnapostate]

Oh Lord I should have seen the gaseous blow building up.

And a coke addict at that?

 

[AllieBaba]

Pederastate is having a hard time finding legal links to his "empirical research," I take it.

You don't read before you post, I take it.

No, your post wasn't there when I posted that. We posted at almost the same time.

Hence the second post.

 

[Agnapostate]

No, your post wasn't there when I posted that. We posted at almost the same time.

Hence the second post.

The time stamp indicates otherwise --- how long does it take you to write a sentence?

Anyway, you seem to be never satisfied. You complain when you don't have empirical research, only to then complain when it's provided to you. This certainly doesn't help your position at all; it only makes me wonder why I continue to respond to your posts.

 

[AllieBaba]

One minute apart, moron.
We posted at the same time. Mine came in second.

 

[Valerie]

No, your post wasn't there when I posted that. We posted at almost the same time.

Hence the second post.

The time stamp indicates otherwise --- how long does it take you to write a sentence?

Anyway, you seem to be never satisfied. You complain when you don't have empirical research, only to then complain when it's provided to you. This certainly doesn't help your position at all; it only makes me wonder why I continue to respond to your posts.

Yawn. One thread at a time, support your OP or don't, as usual.


Time stamp?

 

[Agnapostate]

One minute apart, moron.
We posted at the same time. Mine came in second.

Make up your mind, Babble. One minute apart or at the same time? It would seem to make...heh...a bit of a difference when you're typing a one-sentence reply. At any rate, I await your argument, supplemented by your own empirical evidence. I'm sure it will be positively enlightening.

Yawn. One thread at a time, support your OP or don't, as usual.

Time stamp?

Wellup...thing is, iirc, on the last thread about parental notification/consent that we had, little Allie decided to whiningly dismiss my posts as "too long," and never provided an argument against my claims.

 

[Agnapostate]

So...is that response ready yet?

 

[Againsheila]

If anything goes wrong, you can die and if the parents don't know to watch for symptoms, then they won't know what's wrong and may not get help in time. It's stupid for a kid to get an abortion without parental notification.

This operates on the assumption that the individuals in question are mere objects or pets incapable of independent thought and reasoning, entirely dependent on their parents to make conscious decisions for them. I won't accept that premise to begin with; the empirical research that indicates that adolescents generally possess the ability to make rational and informed decisions about medical treatment won't allow me to.

If you don't trust your parents enough, go to court and get placed in a home where you can trust them. Otherwise, with this outpatient surgery, you are putting young girls lives in danger.

But then you're confronted with precisely the problem that this piece documents: existing realities are often sharply divergent from ideal legal provisions.

Worked at an telephone answering service years ago. One of our clients was an abortion doctor...got a call for him in the middle of the night. A young girl was suppose to have an enema before going in for an abortion. She wanted to know which hole to put the enema in. I seriously doubt these girls are as capable as you believe. They are CHILDREN.

 

[Agnapostate]

Worked at an telephone answering service years ago. One of our clients was an abortion doctor...got a call for him in the middle of the night. A young girl was suppose to have an enema before going in for an abortion. She wanted to know which hole to put the enema in. I seriously doubt these girls are as capable as you believe. They are CHILDREN.

That "evidence" is merely anecdotal; legitimately empirical evidence requires large data sets. If I were to cite the cases of isolated individuals who were vastly intellectually superior to this person, that would not constitute empirical evidence any more than yours did, because the spectrum of human behavior and experiences is so widely varying that no individual case is sufficient evidence on which to base ideas of policy reform.