I have been Called to the Principal's Office

[Samson]

You do realize that this would not be an issue if they were in private school don't you?

I tell ya, the principal will get fed up eventually and turn it all over to the teacher in the end. This is going to be a squeaky wheel deal.

I'm astonished its an issue in a public school!

I really expected that IF the teachers whined about MY POLICY, then the admin would tell the teacher to grow a pair, and get a fucking graded paper out ONCE A GODDAMN WEEK!!

I'm wondering if there's something I'm not aware of that has made this principal such a weinie.

Public school and unions teachers, what did you expect? I am amazed you didn't think that it was going to be a problem. You are asking them to work and do their jobs you know.

Well, its Colorado vs Texas....I'm used to Texas, where Teacher Unions are Prohibited from striking

 

[Cecilie1200]

What really amuses me about this is that teachers and other public school affiliates love to blame the declining quality of public education on a lack of parental involvement.

The Irony will not be lost during my meeting on Monday

Glad I could help.

Not to mention that "waiting until the end of the unit" isn't helpful if your plan is to nip bad behavior in the bud.

Yes...duh! You'd think this would be OBVIOUS wouldn't you?

Well, yes, but that's why I don't send my kids to regular public schools: because what's obvious to me doesn't ever seem to be obvious to them.

I like my son's charter school very much, as well. He has an advisor, with whom he meets twice a week to review his progress, discuss any problems he may be having, and finetune his educational path (schedule extra lab time, connect with a tutor, etc.). I can waltz into the school any time I like and have a sit-down with his advisor and get an up-to-the-minute progress report on him, both academically and socially, because she's actually plugged into his day-to-day school activities.

Hope the school goes through HS.

It is, indeed, a high school. You should see how stunned some people are to find out that this year, his freshman year, is the first time my son has ever attended a school.

We had homework AND class activities in biology. There's no point in the school purchasing a fetal pig for me to hack up if I haven't bothered to study the correlating section in the book first so that I know what I'm looking at.

Exactly! And how does anyone know if you bothered to study anything? They just assume that as a responsible 10th grader, you did it? They ask,"Hey did you read the section," and if you say, "Yes" you get a 100% participation grade??? WTF???

Nowadays, perhaps, depending on the school district. Back then, they knew because the teacher lectured extensively on the subject - because he actually had a degree in science - and filled in all the extra detail that wasn't contained in the textbook. He answered questions, and "participation grades" consisted of us asking AND answering questions in class, other than "Did you do the reading?" THEN we had to do the questions in the book. As I recall, that textbook had small sections of questions throughout the chapter, with a two- or three-page section of questions at the end of each chapter. THAT section even had essay questions.

 

[Samson]

THEN we had to do the questions in the book. As I recall, that textbook had small sections of questions throughout the chapter, with a two- or three-page section of questions at the end of each chapter. THAT section even had essay questions.

Exactly.

But I always skipped the essay questions.

 

[asterism]

Yeah, he'll probably ask me to go through him, but that was the plan all along if the teachers proved uncooperative.

I'm not spending money on private school.

You do realize that this would not be an issue if they were in private school don't you?

I tell ya, the principal will get fed up eventually and turn it all over to the teacher in the end. This is going to be a squeaky wheel deal.

I'm astonished its an issue in a public school!

I really expected that IF the teachers whined about MY POLICY, then the admin would tell the teacher to grow a pair, and get a fucking graded paper out ONCE A GODDAMN WEEK!!

I'm wondering if there's something I'm not aware of that has made this principal such a weinie.

YOUR policy doesn't matter. THIER policy rules the roost.

Don't discount the fact that the teachers actually want to do the right thing but the administration has so much bureaucratic bullshit in the way. I've never seen a good Principal get in the way of involved parents getting things done, but I've seen plenty of bad ones do it.

That reminds me, calling Child Protective Services is an option for these hacks. It's an intimidation factor used quite a bit.

 

[Cecilie1200]

THEN we had to do the questions in the book. As I recall, that textbook had small sections of questions throughout the chapter, with a two- or three-page section of questions at the end of each chapter. THAT section even had essay questions.

Exactly.

But I always skipped the essay questions.

Yeah, well, a lot of teachers did, I think because they didn't have the heart to dig through 30 papers worth of faulty grammar and illegible penmanship. Essay questions were handy, though, for making you actually THINK about the subject, rather than just looking it up in the book.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You do realize that this would not be an issue if they were in private school don't you?

I tell ya, the principal will get fed up eventually and turn it all over to the teacher in the end. This is going to be a squeaky wheel deal.

I'm astonished its an issue in a public school!

I really expected that IF the teachers whined about MY POLICY, then the admin would tell the teacher to grow a pair, and get a fucking graded paper out ONCE A GODDAMN WEEK!!

I'm wondering if there's something I'm not aware of that has made this principal such a weinie.

YOUR policy doesn't matter. THIER policy rules the roost.

Don't discount the fact that the teachers actually want to do the right thing but the administration has so much bureaucratic bullshit in the way. I've never seen a good Principal get in the way of involved parents getting things done, but I've seen plenty of bad ones do it.

That reminds me, calling Child Protective Services is an option for these hacks. It's an intimidation factor used quite a bit.

I'm trying to imagine that phone call to CPS. "Hi, I want to report this abusive parent. He's too damned involved in his kid's education, and it's pissing me off."

 

[Granny]

Good Lord - I always had homework every night in every subject (except PE of course). My biology teacher had strict requirements. We had to print all our papers by exacting standards or not be graded unless it was an “F.” No long-hand written work was acceptable. I always liked that little squiggly thing on the "g."

By print, you mean on a Gugenheim press I imagine?

Well ... I'm not really THAT old - yet old enough that when I was in school we never reached the last section of the biology book covering human anatomy and ........ !

 

[Wry Catcher]

Kids and adults have different learning styles. One characteristic of small children is an innate curiousity: "What's that?" is the first phrase I recall my kids asking, over and over and over. Sadly, by the time they've been subjugated for a year or two in the classroom, the curiosity has been replaced by resentment. Especially with active kids, not ADD or ADHD or some other "illness" offered as a way to mitigate the frustration of teachers. Most parents experience frustration at times with only one or two kids, can you image 20, 30 or more at one time, every day?
That said, we have been teaching our kids the same way, year after year with the same results. We all know what that is called, don't we?
On another thread - which died because there seem to be too few ideas and the thread itself did not lend to name calling - ideas on how public education might be 'fixed', I for one found it very interesting.
None of this has much on topic detail; I'm simply glad my kids survived into responsible and curious adults in spite of the efforts by the public school to curtail that.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Good Lord - I always had homework every night in every subject (except PE of course). My biology teacher had strict requirements. We had to print all our papers by exacting standards or not be graded unless it was an “F.” No long-hand written work was acceptable. I always liked that little squiggly thing on the "g."

By print, you mean on a Gugenheim press I imagine?

Well ... I'm not really THAT old - yet old enough that when I was in school we never reached the last section of the biology book covering human anatomy and ........ !

Gee, we covered that, it was a homework assignment usually completed in the park right next to the library.

 

[Samson]

You do realize that this would not be an issue if they were in private school don't you?

I tell ya, the principal will get fed up eventually and turn it all over to the teacher in the end. This is going to be a squeaky wheel deal.

I'm astonished its an issue in a public school!

I really expected that IF the teachers whined about MY POLICY, then the admin would tell the teacher to grow a pair, and get a fucking graded paper out ONCE A GODDAMN WEEK!!

I'm wondering if there's something I'm not aware of that has made this principal such a weinie.

YOUR policy doesn't matter. THIER policy rules the roost.

Don't discount the fact that the teachers actually want to do the right thing but the administration has so much bureaucratic bullshit in the way. I've never seen a good Principal get in the way of involved parents getting things done, but I've seen plenty of bad ones do it.

That reminds me, calling Child Protective Services is an option for these hacks. It's an intimidation factor used quite a bit.

Well, in THEORY it is the parental policy that's supposed to "rule the roost."

In PRACTICE.....well, not so much, IF THEY CAN HELP IT. I'd be amazed if any parent had ever detailed their parental policy to them. I'm certain CPS would be interested in the documentation of weekly emails I have to demonstrate my interest in My Slave's scholastic Progress. In fact, perhaps so would the local paper.....

Remember I have worked within the system, and if you can avoid ANY interaction with parents, then you do it: "Open House" nights are very carefully scripted to ensure there's almost no time for anyone who may ask serious questions about the school's activities.

 

[kwc57]

Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:

Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject

I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."

My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade

I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.


WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???

It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!

GODDAMN? WTF??

Am I being completely unreasonable???

Me. I don't worry about it. My 17 year old senior seems to already know EVERYTHING!!!

Quick! Have him go get a job and start supporting you NOW, while he still knows it all!

He actually works two jobs to pay for his truck, insurance and gas.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Me. I don't worry about it. My 17 year old senior seems to already know EVERYTHING!!!

Quick! Have him go get a job and start supporting you NOW, while he still knows it all!

He actually works two jobs to pay for his truck, insurance and gas.

Good for him, AND you.

 

[asterism]

I'm astonished its an issue in a public school!

I really expected that IF the teachers whined about MY POLICY, then the admin would tell the teacher to grow a pair, and get a fucking graded paper out ONCE A GODDAMN WEEK!!

I'm wondering if there's something I'm not aware of that has made this principal such a weinie.

YOUR policy doesn't matter. THIER policy rules the roost.

Don't discount the fact that the teachers actually want to do the right thing but the administration has so much bureaucratic bullshit in the way. I've never seen a good Principal get in the way of involved parents getting things done, but I've seen plenty of bad ones do it.

That reminds me, calling Child Protective Services is an option for these hacks. It's an intimidation factor used quite a bit.

I'm trying to imagine that phone call to CPS. "Hi, I want to report this abusive parent. He's too damned involved in his kid's education, and it's pissing me off."

Or, "I think you should look into this parent, he seems belligerent and controlling. His child is having problems and he's taking it out on the school."

 

[asterism]

I'm astonished its an issue in a public school!

I really expected that IF the teachers whined about MY POLICY, then the admin would tell the teacher to grow a pair, and get a fucking graded paper out ONCE A GODDAMN WEEK!!

I'm wondering if there's something I'm not aware of that has made this principal such a weinie.

YOUR policy doesn't matter. THIER policy rules the roost.

Don't discount the fact that the teachers actually want to do the right thing but the administration has so much bureaucratic bullshit in the way. I've never seen a good Principal get in the way of involved parents getting things done, but I've seen plenty of bad ones do it.

That reminds me, calling Child Protective Services is an option for these hacks. It's an intimidation factor used quite a bit.

Well, in THEORY it is the parental policy that's supposed to "rule the roost."

In PRACTICE.....well, not so much, IF THEY CAN HELP IT. I'd be amazed if any parent had ever detailed their parental policy to them. I'm certain CPS would be interested in the documentation of weekly emails I have to demonstrate my interest in My Slave's scholastic Progress. In fact, perhaps so would the local paper.....

Remember I have worked within the system, and if you can avoid ANY interaction with parents, then you do it: "Open House" nights are very carefully scripted to ensure there's almost no time for anyone who may ask serious questions about the school's activities.

Well you are certainly correct in your priorities.

 

[Samson]

Or, "I think you should look into this parent, he seems belligerent and controlling. His child is having problems and he's taking it out on the school."

Certainly that's a possibility, but I'd think it would be a one trick pony: I.E. There's parents that REALLY ARE belligerent, and I humbly suggest that I'm certainly not the worst they've seen....

.......yet.

 

[JWBooth]

Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:

Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject

I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."

My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade

I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.


WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???

It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!

GODDAMN? WTF??

Am I being completely unreasonable???

Why don't they just send the graded assignments home with your spawn?

Isn't that how they do it? Or do teachers these days horde all the assignments?

Well, the slave isn't the most reliable conveyance, but after a fuckin' month I expect him to have the proceeedure of receiving a paper, transporting it home, letting me know he has it, and if necessary returning it to school.

Some complain that I'm interfering with their horde, arguing that they like to wait until "The end of the Unit" to send all the graded work home. But what I'm seeing is lost of grade entries that do not require ANY objective evaluation: "Participation" grades, and very few quizzes, tests, and things that require a student to place their pencil to a piece of paper!!

Good for you, damn glad to see somebody with an active interest in their kids learning.

Sadly, in many cases your/mine/our input and oversight isnt wanted. Indeed the trend seems to be that we are to be excluded completely. We might get involved and interfere with the satus quo.

 

[Annie]

Why don't they just send the graded assignments home with your spawn?

Isn't that how they do it? Or do teachers these days horde all the assignments?

Well, the slave isn't the most reliable conveyance, but after a fuckin' month I expect him to have the proceeedure of receiving a paper, transporting it home, letting me know he has it, and if necessary returning it to school.

Some complain that I'm interfering with their horde, arguing that they like to wait until "The end of the Unit" to send all the graded work home. But what I'm seeing is lost of grade entries that do not require ANY objective evaluation: "Participation" grades, and very few quizzes, tests, and things that require a student to place their pencil to a piece of paper!!

Good for you, damn glad to see somebody with an active interest in their kids learning.

Sadly, in many cases your/mine/our input and oversight isnt wanted. Indeed the trend seems to be that we are to be excluded completely. We might get involved and interfere with the satus quo.

I agree in the main with concern. Samson child is in a different place than most high school students, one that's right for him and luckily he has the parents that will make the system work for him.

The idea of parents being on top of what their kids are doing and what the school is teaching, . With that said, there are markers of where parents day-to-day interaction with school and assignments should be intense and then lay off. Of course, some kids need much more help than others, some are born to succeed in school.

K-2 School and parent interaction should be ongoing. Good practices would indicate at least a weekly newsletter, even daily if online postings are possible. Spelling words, pretests, tests should be on same days. Every day there should be math and reading work for home. Daily and weekly folders should contain both examples of work before and after grading. Homework should be practice only-no new material and take no longer than 15-20 minutes for average child.

3rd Homework time would increase to 20-30 minutes for average child. Again there should be nightly math and reading. Assignment notebooks should begin, with both parent and teacher signatures required at least until there are 3 weeks of perfect entries regarding assignments and materials home. Same spelling requirements regarding pretests, etc. Homework still should be 'practice only, not applying concepts.'

4th Probably the most traumatic year for kids and parents. Homework jumps to 30-45 minutes on average, sometimes an hour. Still math, reading, spelling. Add in daily math fact tests, timed on top. Science and social studies homework becomes more frequent, often entailing written responses. Vocabulary related to subject matter jargon becomes much more difficult and part of homework. Heavy emphasis on projects and individual responsibilities. Assignment notebooks should no longer be an issue, if so, the parents and teacher need to make clear to student that this is something that must be mastered.

5th Pretty static from 4th grade. Since the kids already have done the 4th grade, homework time might actually decrease. Problem for most-hormones are going nuts!

6-8th Middle school years in most locales. Homework times differ greatly depending on student, different teachers, and curriculum. May vary from little or occasionally none to an hour or more. Tests in language arts, math, science tend towards objective grading. Test and assignments in reading, social studies, and science tend more so towards subjective and written work. Often involving 2-4 week projects, the student must develop skills on breaking down work into chunks. If the teacher is just saying that a project is due in 4 weeks, without breaking it into steps-GET IN THERE AND DEMAND WHAT IS EXPECTED AND WHEN. These are skills that a person needs in high school and beyond, allocating time is very difficult for most kids, they cannot do it on their own.

Most 6th graders need literally a step-by-step model, with examples.
7th graders need the model with anything new, using examples.
8th graders should be able to chunk the work on their own. They shouldn't require grading for bibliographies. They should know and avoid plagiarism. There should be time alloted though for students to one-on-one with instructor on where they have questions or need suggestions.

In all cases a rubric, which spells out each part of the project with criteria should be provided with the lesson assigned. The kid should know from day 1 what an 'A, B, C, D' project looks like. The objectives of the project should also be given on the assignment. This means: When finished, this is what the project demonstrates I have mastered.

Some 6th graders are good to go when they get the assignment, rubric, and due date. Some 8th graders aren't. The teacher should know the older kids that aren't ready and be in contact with the parents.

Having taught middle school for more than a decade, the average 6th grader needs lots of feedback from teacher, each step of the way. 7th graders are mostly on task, though they need help at staying on schedule. The 8th graders that have problems are few, usually they either hate school because of social or home problems or really having trouble keeping up. If the child is having major issues with completing assignments serious conferences are indicated. High school is going to be very difficult if things do not change.

Most public middle schools have instituted blocs for the kids-often overlapping curriculum with appropriate time alloted. Social studies or science often team up with reading/language arts. Instead of 2 periods of 50 minutes, there is a bloc of 110 minutes. Assigned project may be Native Americans with social studies giving background on a novel. The content of project graded by social studies teacher, the style graded by language arts teacher. Often the same teachers will 'remain' with the same group of kids throughout middle school-a great idea for most! However, not so good if personality problems with your child and one of the teachers.

In high school, little team teaching. Little or no repetition of teachers through 9-12th grades. In big high schools, I went to one of 4k+, the likelihood of the teacher really knowing the average student? Not so good. They are grading their work, they have little clue if it's their 'best' or 'done in the morning' work.

Truth to tell, the best thing that parents can do for their kids, if they want them to be successful:

Early years:

make sure they know where they are to work at home, until high school my kids knew that was the kitchen table, so I could monitor. From preschool, let them know where their backpack goes. Tell them where to put notes, letters, etc., as soon as they come home-this avoids the need for safety pins. By 3rd grade, make it clear that if they fail to give notes, etc., there are consequences. Follow through.

Be clear on the order to do things. For my kids it was come home and put backpack on kitchen floor. Change clothes. Eat snack. Outside for about 1/2 hour. Homework. Everything back in backpack, including anything requiring parent signatures, $$, etc. Leave book bag on hook by door-Basically you want them to trip/stumble over them in the morning-then they won't be forgotten. If time before dinner, outside. If not, finish homework after dinner. 1/2 hour tv or computer. Shower, story (when little), bed.

1-3 grade bedtime was 8 pm.
4-5 8:30pm
6-8 10 pm
High school-good luck with that. BTW, there were nights in hs where my kids were still working on homework until 1:30 am. All of them were in at least 2 extra curricular activities and 2 had multiple honors/AP courses.

Just like at school, home involvement should evolve, with the child becoming more independent over time.

 

[Samson]

Well, the slave isn't the most reliable conveyance, but after a fuckin' month I expect him to have the proceeedure of receiving a paper, transporting it home, letting me know he has it, and if necessary returning it to school.

Some complain that I'm interfering with their horde, arguing that they like to wait until "The end of the Unit" to send all the graded work home. But what I'm seeing is lost of grade entries that do not require ANY objective evaluation: "Participation" grades, and very few quizzes, tests, and things that require a student to place their pencil to a piece of paper!!

Good for you, damn glad to see somebody with an active interest in their kids learning.

Sadly, in many cases your/mine/our input and oversight isnt wanted. Indeed the trend seems to be that we are to be excluded completely. We might get involved and interfere with the satus quo.

I agree in the main with concern. Samson child is in a different place than most high school students, one that's right for him and luckily he has the parents that will make the system work for him.

The idea of parents being on top of what their kids are doing and what the school is teaching, . With that said, there are markers of where parents day-to-day interaction with school and assignments should be intense and then lay off. Of course, some kids need much more help than others, some are born to succeed in school.

K-2 School and parent interaction should be ongoing. Good practices would indicate at least a weekly newsletter, even daily if online postings are possible. Spelling words, pretests, tests should be on same days. Every day there should be math and reading work for home. Daily and weekly folders should contain both examples of work before and after grading. Homework should be practice only-no new material and take no longer than 15-20 minutes for average child.

3rd Homework time would increase to 20-30 minutes for average child. Again there should be nightly math and reading. Assignment notebooks should begin, with both parent and teacher signatures required at least until there are 3 weeks of perfect entries regarding assignments and materials home. Same spelling requirements regarding pretests, etc. Homework still should be 'practice only, not applying concepts.'

4th Probably the most traumatic year for kids and parents. Homework jumps to 30-45 minutes on average, sometimes an hour. Still math, reading, spelling. Add in daily math fact tests, timed on top. Science and social studies homework becomes more frequent, often entailing written responses. Vocabulary related to subject matter jargon becomes much more difficult and part of homework. Heavy emphasis on projects and individual responsibilities. Assignment notebooks should no longer be an issue, if so, the parents and teacher need to make clear to student that this is something that must be mastered.

5th Pretty static from 4th grade. Since the kids already have done the 4th grade, homework time might actually decrease. Problem for most-hormones are going nuts!

6-8th Middle school years in most locales. Homework times differ greatly depending on student, different teachers, and curriculum. May vary from little or occasionally none to an hour or more. Tests in language arts, math, science tend towards objective grading. Test and assignments in reading, social studies, and science tend more so towards subjective and written work. Often involving 2-4 week projects, the student must develop skills on breaking down work into chunks. If the teacher is just saying that a project is due in 4 weeks, without breaking it into steps-GET IN THERE AND DEMAND WHAT IS EXPECTED AND WHEN. These are skills that a person needs in high school and beyond, allocating time is very difficult for most kids, they cannot do it on their own.

Most 6th graders need literally a step-by-step model, with examples.
7th graders need the model with anything new, using examples.
8th graders should be able to chunk the work on their own. They shouldn't require grading for bibliographies. They should know and avoid plagiarism. There should be time alloted though for students to one-on-one with instructor on where they have questions or need suggestions.

In all cases a rubric, which spells out each part of the project with criteria should be provided with the lesson assigned. The kid should know from day 1 what an 'A, B, C, D' project looks like. The objectives of the project should also be given on the assignment. This means: When finished, this is what the project demonstrates I have mastered.

Some 6th graders are good to go when they get the assignment, rubric, and due date. Some 8th graders aren't. The teacher should know the older kids that aren't ready and be in contact with the parents.

Having taught middle school for more than a decade, the average 6th grader needs lots of feedback from teacher, each step of the way. 7th graders are mostly on task, though they need help at staying on schedule. The 8th graders that have problems are few, usually they either hate school because of social or home problems or really having trouble keeping up. If the child is having major issues with completing assignments serious conferences are indicated. High school is going to be very difficult if things do not change.

Most public middle schools have instituted blocs for the kids-often overlapping curriculum with appropriate time alloted. Social studies or science often team up with reading/language arts. Instead of 2 periods of 50 minutes, there is a bloc of 110 minutes. Assigned project may be Native Americans with social studies giving background on a novel. The content of project graded by social studies teacher, the style graded by language arts teacher. Often the same teachers will 'remain' with the same group of kids throughout middle school-a great idea for most! However, not so good if personality problems with your child and one of the teachers.

In high school, little team teaching. Little or no repetition of teachers through 9-12th grades. In big high schools, I went to one of 4k+, the likelihood of the teacher really knowing the average student? Not so good. They are grading their work, they have little clue if it's their 'best' or 'done in the morning' work.

Truth to tell, the best thing that parents can do for their kids, if they want them to be successful:

Early years:

make sure they know where they are to work at home, until high school my kids knew that was the kitchen table, so I could monitor. From preschool, let them know where their backpack goes. Tell them where to put notes, letters, etc., as soon as they come home-this avoids the need for safety pins. By 3rd grade, make it clear that if they fail to give notes, etc., there are consequences. Follow through.

Be clear on the order to do things. For my kids it was come home and put backpack on kitchen floor. Change clothes. Eat snack. Outside for about 1/2 hour. Homework. Everything back in backpack, including anything requiring parent signatures, $$, etc. Leave book bag on hook by door-Basically you want them to trip/stumble over them in the morning-then they won't be forgotten. If time before dinner, outside. If not, finish homework after dinner. 1/2 hour tv or computer. Shower, story (when little), bed.

1-3 grade bedtime was 8 pm.
4-5 8:30pm
6-8 10 pm
High school-good luck with that. BTW, there were nights in hs where my kids were still working on homework until 1:30 am. All of them were in at least 2 extra curricular activities and 2 had multiple honors/AP courses.

Just like at school, home involvement should evolve, with the child becoming more independent over time.

I don't disagree with any of this, and appreciate the detail and thought that went into the response.

BUT...and I don't think you'd disagree, this description is for an average school (and possibly an above average student). Most schools are now required by NCLB to produce their own report cards describing their state standing based on state tests.

For example, the High School in question on City-data.com school rating (using weighted 2009 test average as compared to other schools in Colorado) from 0 (worst) to 100 (best) is 58.

There's much room for improvement ......IMHO this may be achieved with more graded work (ie., treat 10th graders like 8th graders)

 

[Annie]

Good for you, damn glad to see somebody with an active interest in their kids learning.

Sadly, in many cases your/mine/our input and oversight isnt wanted. Indeed the trend seems to be that we are to be excluded completely. We might get involved and interfere with the satus quo.

I agree in the main with concern. Samson child is in a different place than most high school students, one that's right for him and luckily he has the parents that will make the system work for him.

The idea of parents being on top of what their kids are doing and what the school is teaching, . With that said, there are markers of where parents day-to-day interaction with school and assignments should be intense and then lay off. Of course, some kids need much more help than others, some are born to succeed in school.

K-2 School and parent interaction should be ongoing. Good practices would indicate at least a weekly newsletter, even daily if online postings are possible. Spelling words, pretests, tests should be on same days. Every day there should be math and reading work for home. Daily and weekly folders should contain both examples of work before and after grading. Homework should be practice only-no new material and take no longer than 15-20 minutes for average child.

3rd Homework time would increase to 20-30 minutes for average child. Again there should be nightly math and reading. Assignment notebooks should begin, with both parent and teacher signatures required at least until there are 3 weeks of perfect entries regarding assignments and materials home. Same spelling requirements regarding pretests, etc. Homework still should be 'practice only, not applying concepts.'

4th Probably the most traumatic year for kids and parents. Homework jumps to 30-45 minutes on average, sometimes an hour. Still math, reading, spelling. Add in daily math fact tests, timed on top. Science and social studies homework becomes more frequent, often entailing written responses. Vocabulary related to subject matter jargon becomes much more difficult and part of homework. Heavy emphasis on projects and individual responsibilities. Assignment notebooks should no longer be an issue, if so, the parents and teacher need to make clear to student that this is something that must be mastered.

5th Pretty static from 4th grade. Since the kids already have done the 4th grade, homework time might actually decrease. Problem for most-hormones are going nuts!

6-8th Middle school years in most locales. Homework times differ greatly depending on student, different teachers, and curriculum. May vary from little or occasionally none to an hour or more. Tests in language arts, math, science tend towards objective grading. Test and assignments in reading, social studies, and science tend more so towards subjective and written work. Often involving 2-4 week projects, the student must develop skills on breaking down work into chunks. If the teacher is just saying that a project is due in 4 weeks, without breaking it into steps-GET IN THERE AND DEMAND WHAT IS EXPECTED AND WHEN. These are skills that a person needs in high school and beyond, allocating time is very difficult for most kids, they cannot do it on their own.

Most 6th graders need literally a step-by-step model, with examples.
7th graders need the model with anything new, using examples.
8th graders should be able to chunk the work on their own. They shouldn't require grading for bibliographies. They should know and avoid plagiarism. There should be time alloted though for students to one-on-one with instructor on where they have questions or need suggestions.

In all cases a rubric, which spells out each part of the project with criteria should be provided with the lesson assigned. The kid should know from day 1 what an 'A, B, C, D' project looks like. The objectives of the project should also be given on the assignment. This means: When finished, this is what the project demonstrates I have mastered.

Some 6th graders are good to go when they get the assignment, rubric, and due date. Some 8th graders aren't. The teacher should know the older kids that aren't ready and be in contact with the parents.

Having taught middle school for more than a decade, the average 6th grader needs lots of feedback from teacher, each step of the way. 7th graders are mostly on task, though they need help at staying on schedule. The 8th graders that have problems are few, usually they either hate school because of social or home problems or really having trouble keeping up. If the child is having major issues with completing assignments serious conferences are indicated. High school is going to be very difficult if things do not change.

Most public middle schools have instituted blocs for the kids-often overlapping curriculum with appropriate time alloted. Social studies or science often team up with reading/language arts. Instead of 2 periods of 50 minutes, there is a bloc of 110 minutes. Assigned project may be Native Americans with social studies giving background on a novel. The content of project graded by social studies teacher, the style graded by language arts teacher. Often the same teachers will 'remain' with the same group of kids throughout middle school-a great idea for most! However, not so good if personality problems with your child and one of the teachers.

In high school, little team teaching. Little or no repetition of teachers through 9-12th grades. In big high schools, I went to one of 4k+, the likelihood of the teacher really knowing the average student? Not so good. They are grading their work, they have little clue if it's their 'best' or 'done in the morning' work.

Truth to tell, the best thing that parents can do for their kids, if they want them to be successful:

Early years:

make sure they know where they are to work at home, until high school my kids knew that was the kitchen table, so I could monitor. From preschool, let them know where their backpack goes. Tell them where to put notes, letters, etc., as soon as they come home-this avoids the need for safety pins. By 3rd grade, make it clear that if they fail to give notes, etc., there are consequences. Follow through.

Be clear on the order to do things. For my kids it was come home and put backpack on kitchen floor. Change clothes. Eat snack. Outside for about 1/2 hour. Homework. Everything back in backpack, including anything requiring parent signatures, $$, etc. Leave book bag on hook by door-Basically you want them to trip/stumble over them in the morning-then they won't be forgotten. If time before dinner, outside. If not, finish homework after dinner. 1/2 hour tv or computer. Shower, story (when little), bed.

1-3 grade bedtime was 8 pm.
4-5 8:30pm
6-8 10 pm
High school-good luck with that. BTW, there were nights in hs where my kids were still working on homework until 1:30 am. All of them were in at least 2 extra curricular activities and 2 had multiple honors/AP courses.

Just like at school, home involvement should evolve, with the child becoming more independent over time.

I don't disagree with any of this, and appreciate the detail and thought that went into the response.

BUT...and I don't think you'd disagree, this description is for an average school (and possibly an above average student). Most schools are now required by NCLB to produce their own report cards describing their state standing based on state tests.

For example, the High School in question on City-data.com school rating (using weighted 2009 test average as compared to other schools in Colorado) from 0 (worst) to 100 (best) is 58.

There's much room for improvement ......IMHO this may be achieved with more graded work (ie., treat 10th graders like 8th graders)

I would not disagree with a school that performs as you describe, though I don't think that even under the criteria you are putting forth it's in the best interests of the kids. In this case seems the problem would be the teachers and the rules they are operating under. Change those, not the expectations of what is expected of the students.

Mandate rubrics and standards based lessons. Mandate the use and assessment of planners in lower grades. Call the parents in early, not in high school. As educators and parents we should be preparing our children for the future, not for a moment in time.

 

[Samson]

I would not disagree with a school that performs as you describe, though I don't think that even under the criteria you are putting forth it's in the best interests of the kids. In this case seems the problem would be the teachers and the rules they are operating under. Change those, not the expectations of what is expected of the students.

Mandate rubrics and standards based lessons. Mandate the use and assessment of planners in lower grades. Call the parents in early, not in high school. As educators and parents we should be preparing our children for the future, not for a moment in time.

I'm not just talking about my own case, which you know is somewhat unique, but in EACH case. By all means teachers in the public school should call parents, regardless of whatever grade they are in. Why not, if only to introduce themselves, and build a little repoire? Maybe if teachers were less reluctant to contact parents, the public school would have a better public image?

My point is there is no absolute age at which teachers should stop regularly and personally contact parents. If I was a principal a teacher would be FORBIDDEN to fail a student unless they could offer documented evidence that the parents had been phoned, and a conference had been scheduled.

Teachers would probably hate me.