I have been Called to the Principal's Office

[Annie]

I would not disagree with a school that performs as you describe, though I don't think that even under the criteria you are putting forth it's in the best interests of the kids. In this case seems the problem would be the teachers and the rules they are operating under. Change those, not the expectations of what is expected of the students.

Mandate rubrics and standards based lessons. Mandate the use and assessment of planners in lower grades. Call the parents in early, not in high school. As educators and parents we should be preparing our children for the future, not for a moment in time.

I'm not just talking about my own case, which you know is somewhat unique, but in EACH case. By all means teachers in the public school should call parents, regardless of whatever grade they are in. Why not, if only to introduce themselves, and build a little repoire? Maybe if teachers were less reluctant to contact parents, the public school would have a better public image?

My point is there is no absolute age at which teachers should stop regularly and personally contact parents. If I was a principal a teacher would be FORBIDDEN to fail a student unless they could offer documented evidence that the parents had been phoned, and a conference had been scheduled.

Teachers would probably hate me.

I was too hasty and totalitarian with my response. I agree that parents and high school parents should have communication. I guess where we disagree is on the amount of parental involvement in secondary school, (note not JUST hs). I believe, with my own kids well out of college, that it's necessary for the student to own their education-for better or worse-by 8th grade. Now that doesn't mean that things can't be turned around-when the student wants, parents willing to help-but for most, the die is cast.

As for failing a student, whatever the grade, I agree with your criteria. In fact, both public and private schools I've dealt with, forbid a failing grade if parents are not notified mid-term.

 

[Samson]

I would not disagree with a school that performs as you describe, though I don't think that even under the criteria you are putting forth it's in the best interests of the kids. In this case seems the problem would be the teachers and the rules they are operating under. Change those, not the expectations of what is expected of the students.

Mandate rubrics and standards based lessons. Mandate the use and assessment of planners in lower grades. Call the parents in early, not in high school. As educators and parents we should be preparing our children for the future, not for a moment in time.

I'm not just talking about my own case, which you know is somewhat unique, but in EACH case. By all means teachers in the public school should call parents, regardless of whatever grade they are in. Why not, if only to introduce themselves, and build a little repoire? Maybe if teachers were less reluctant to contact parents, the public school would have a better public image?

My point is there is no absolute age at which teachers should stop regularly and personally contact parents. If I was a principal a teacher would be FORBIDDEN to fail a student unless they could offer documented evidence that the parents had been phoned, and a conference had been scheduled.

Teachers would probably hate me.

I was too hasty and totalitarian with my response. I agree that parents and high school parents should have communication. I guess where we disagree is on the amount of parental involvement in secondary school, (note not JUST hs). I believe, with my own kids well out of college, that it's necessary for the student to own their education-for better or worse-by 8th grade. Now that doesn't mean that things can't be turned around-when the student wants, parents willing to help-but for most, the die is cast.

As for failing a student, whatever the grade, I agree with your criteria. In fact, both public and private schools I've dealt with, forbid a failing grade if parents are not notified mid-term.

It occurs to me that there's another point of irony: not only do schools complain that parents aren't involved enough in their kids' behavioural/academic performance, but also as the kids get older (and naturally, I agree, parents have less desire, and need to be involved) the school offers more activities for which the parents are asked to fund (booster clubs, proms, yearbooks, club activities, "class rings." etc).

 

[Annie]

I'm not just talking about my own case, which you know is somewhat unique, but in EACH case. By all means teachers in the public school should call parents, regardless of whatever grade they are in. Why not, if only to introduce themselves, and build a little repoire? Maybe if teachers were less reluctant to contact parents, the public school would have a better public image?

My point is there is no absolute age at which teachers should stop regularly and personally contact parents. If I was a principal a teacher would be FORBIDDEN to fail a student unless they could offer documented evidence that the parents had been phoned, and a conference had been scheduled.

Teachers would probably hate me.

I was too hasty and totalitarian with my response. I agree that parents and high school parents should have communication. I guess where we disagree is on the amount of parental involvement in secondary school, (note not JUST hs). I believe, with my own kids well out of college, that it's necessary for the student to own their education-for better or worse-by 8th grade. Now that doesn't mean that things can't be turned around-when the student wants, parents willing to help-but for most, the die is cast.

As for failing a student, whatever the grade, I agree with your criteria. In fact, both public and private schools I've dealt with, forbid a failing grade if parents are not notified mid-term.

It occurs to me that there's another point of irony: not only do schools complain that parents aren't involved enough in their kids' behavioural/academic performance, but also as the kids get older (and naturally, I agree, parents have less desire, and need to be involved) the school offers more activities for which the parents are asked to fund (booster clubs, proms, yearbooks, club activities, "class rings." etc).

Ok, now I'm LOL! I'm assuming that you too were secondary teacher by your creds? Can we count the ways that parents ignored documented attempted interventions in the lower grades?

There is no greater horror than having a 6th grade student that has problems reading 3rd grade level texts. Well actually, they don't exist on level.

My worst nightmare was a 7th grade kid, that had been referred since 2nd grade, taking the Constitution tests for fed and state. 3 questions I gave her, 2 days before. No correct answers. Truly I think the parent prepped her, she just couldn't get it.

That is an example of the problem with NCLB.

 

[Samson]

I was too hasty and totalitarian with my response. I agree that parents and high school parents should have communication. I guess where we disagree is on the amount of parental involvement in secondary school, (note not JUST hs). I believe, with my own kids well out of college, that it's necessary for the student to own their education-for better or worse-by 8th grade. Now that doesn't mean that things can't be turned around-when the student wants, parents willing to help-but for most, the die is cast.

As for failing a student, whatever the grade, I agree with your criteria. In fact, both public and private schools I've dealt with, forbid a failing grade if parents are not notified mid-term.

It occurs to me that there's another point of irony: not only do schools complain that parents aren't involved enough in their kids' behavioural/academic performance, but also as the kids get older (and naturally, I agree, parents have less desire, and need to be involved) the school offers more activities for which the parents are asked to fund (booster clubs, proms, yearbooks, club activities, "class rings." etc).

Ok, now I'm LOL! I'm assuming that you too were secondary teacher by your creds? Can we count the ways that parents ignored documented attempted interventions in the lower grades?

There is no greater horror than having a 6th grade student that has problems reading 3rd grade level texts. Well actually, they don't exist on level.

My worst nightmare was a 7th grade kid, that had been referred since 2nd grade, taking the Constitution tests for fed and state. 3 questions I gave her, 2 days before. No correct answers. Truly I think the parent prepped her, she just couldn't get it.

That is an example of the problem with NCLB.

Well, ONE problem with NCLB....the statute has its flaws, but I think its better than nothing, and the law can be changed. Regardless, it wasn't the Feds that failed if the parents were allowed to ignore (undocumented) a learning disability for 5 years

 

[Annie]

It occurs to me that there's another point of irony: not only do schools complain that parents aren't involved enough in their kids' behavioural/academic performance, but also as the kids get older (and naturally, I agree, parents have less desire, and need to be involved) the school offers more activities for which the parents are asked to fund (booster clubs, proms, yearbooks, club activities, "class rings." etc).

Ok, now I'm LOL! I'm assuming that you too were secondary teacher by your creds? Can we count the ways that parents ignored documented attempted interventions in the lower grades?

There is no greater horror than having a 6th grade student that has problems reading 3rd grade level texts. Well actually, they don't exist on level.

My worst nightmare was a 7th grade kid, that had been referred since 2nd grade, taking the Constitution tests for fed and state. 3 questions I gave her, 2 days before. No correct answers. Truly I think the parent prepped her, she just couldn't get it.

That is an example of the problem with NCLB.

Well, ONE problem with NCLB....the statute has its flaws, but I think its better than nothing, and the law can be changed. Regardless, it wasn't the Feds that failed if the parents were allowed to ignore (undocumented) a learning disability for 5 years

And this is the problem. I was in private school, parents had repeatedly been told that child was special education. They refused testing. Guess what? Private schools lack the ability to force testing. The did test, in 7th grade, IQ came in at 71.

Now the question is, what would have been in the best interests of child? I would say, life skills. There was no point in trying to make this kid regurgitate topics like natural rights.

 

[Samson]

Ok, now I'm LOL! I'm assuming that you too were secondary teacher by your creds? Can we count the ways that parents ignored documented attempted interventions in the lower grades?

There is no greater horror than having a 6th grade student that has problems reading 3rd grade level texts. Well actually, they don't exist on level.

My worst nightmare was a 7th grade kid, that had been referred since 2nd grade, taking the Constitution tests for fed and state. 3 questions I gave her, 2 days before. No correct answers. Truly I think the parent prepped her, she just couldn't get it.

That is an example of the problem with NCLB.

Well, ONE problem with NCLB....the statute has its flaws, but I think its better than nothing, and the law can be changed. Regardless, it wasn't the Feds that failed if the parents were allowed to ignore (undocumented) a learning disability for 5 years

And this is the problem. I was in private school, parents had repeatedly been told that child was special education. They refused testing. Guess what? Private schools lack the ability to force testing. The did test, in 7th grade, IQ came in at 71.

Now the question is, what would have been in the best interests of child? I would say, life skills. There was no point in trying to make this kid regurgitate topics like natural rights.

Well, its not NCLB's fault that the parents ignored the school (private or public). I doubt they really needed a diagnostic, but simply chose to believe the kid would "grow out of it" until she was 13, and then the behavioural divergence from the norm became too obvious to ignore.

 

[Annie]

Well, ONE problem with NCLB....the statute has its flaws, but I think its better than nothing, and the law can be changed. Regardless, it wasn't the Feds that failed if the parents were allowed to ignore (undocumented) a learning disability for 5 years

And this is the problem. I was in private school, parents had repeatedly been told that child was special education. They refused testing. Guess what? Private schools lack the ability to force testing. The did test, in 7th grade, IQ came in at 71.

Now the question is, what would have been in the best interests of child? I would say, life skills. There was no point in trying to make this kid regurgitate topics like natural rights.

Well, its not NCLB's fault that the parents ignored the school (private or public). I doubt they really needed a diagnostic, but simply chose to believe the kid would "grow out of it" until she was 13, and then the behavioural divergence from the norm became too obvious to ignore.

I hate feeling like we're arguing, not normal. However in this case, which is the norm for parents refusing to heed interventions, the writing was on the wall way before 7th grade. Parents didn't want their daughter labeled. So she was not, though would certainly have been in public school, which is why she was moved to private in 2nd grade.

I blame the principal and the parents. The child was screwed. She would have been better served in public schools.

 

[Samson]

And this is the problem. I was in private school, parents had repeatedly been told that child was special education. They refused testing. Guess what? Private schools lack the ability to force testing. The did test, in 7th grade, IQ came in at 71.

Now the question is, what would have been in the best interests of child? I would say, life skills. There was no point in trying to make this kid regurgitate topics like natural rights.

Well, its not NCLB's fault that the parents ignored the school (private or public). I doubt they really needed a diagnostic, but simply chose to believe the kid would "grow out of it" until she was 13, and then the behavioural divergence from the norm became too obvious to ignore.

I hate feeling like we're arguing, not normal. However in this case, which is the norm for parents refusing to heed interventions, the writing was on the wall way before 7th grade. Parents didn't want their daughter labeled. So she was not, though would certainly have been in public school, which is why she was moved to private in 2nd grade.

I blame the principal and the parents. The child was screwed. She would have been better served in public schools.

OK I agree.

 

[Samson]

Saw the younger slave's principal last Friday to "Bridge any communication gaps between myself and the teachers."

My first response was "What 'Gaps'?"

He replied that, in the interest of remaining objective, he had not read any of my e-mails.



Taking the bait, rather than openly expressing my already high level of incredulousness, I reviewed my 5 point policy with him.

Amazingly, he noted that some projects, curriculum, and "units," did not lend themselves to weekly evaluation, and the one-grade-per-week-per-class expectation.

I explained that ONE graded paper-per week was the MINIMUM I would expect any professional educator to produce every week in order to evaluate whether or not whatever they'd taught during the past 5 days had, or had not, been learned. Of course, I understood there would necessarily be exceptions from time to time.

He agreed, but began to spout statistical evidence that supported the success of students regardless of weekly evaluation.

I interruped to state that this was irrelevant to me: What I needed to see would be WEEKLY EVIDENCE. Furthermore, what would be in HIS INTEREST would be the most frequent display of teacher interaction with students illustrated by graded papers.

Parents, I lectured, appreciated knowing that their kids were learning something.

After a puzzled silence, he could only agree.


I swear to god, why I continue to be amazed that government workers are so incredibly incompetent, I don't know.

 

[JWBooth]

I swear to god, why I continue to be amazed that government workers are so incredibly incompetent, I don't know.

Some would hand over our medical care to just such as this.

Stick with it. Your kid(s) are more important than whatever educational trend of the moment the school is involved in.

 

[Samson]

I swear to god, why I continue to be amazed that government workers are so incredibly incompetent, I don't know.

Some would hand over our medical care to just such as this.

Stick with it. Your kid(s) are more important than whatever educational trend of the moment the school is involved in.

Yes, his is why I used the term "government workers" instead of "public school teachers and administrators."

For some reason, many people forget that to look at the most efficient government program (relying most on local taxation, and local administration) all they need to do is look at their local school.

If government workers in public school cannot grasp the simple concept that parents appreciate frequent and detailed examples of student progress, then how might we expect Washington Bureaucrats to expect to understand anything about the wishes of Americans?

 

[Samson]

Began when I arrived and asked if I'd missed signing the Meeting Attendance Sheet.

The principal chuckled, thinking I was kidding.....

So I pulled out my own prepared attendance sheet, including a description of my complaint, and the two questions I needed to ask.

I signed, then began its rotation. Principal said...."um, I thought we'd just have an informal chat.....?"

I replied, "That was great, but that I needed to record the attendees for MY RECORDS."

Anyway, I suggest that anyone visiting with public officials begin their meeting this way. It sets a no BS tone that is unmistakable.

Does anyone care to hear how the rest of the meeting went?

 

[Ravi]

No, it's obvious from your posts that you care less about your child's ability than you care about making some stupid point about the public school system.

 

[Samson]

Does anyone not on my ignore list want to hear how the rest of the meeting went?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Began when I arrived and asked if I'd missed signing the Meeting Attendance Sheet.

The principal chuckled, thinking I was kidding.....

So I pulled out my own prepared attendance sheet, including a description of my complaint, and the two questions I needed to ask.

I signed, then began its rotation. Principal said...."um, I thought we'd just have an informal chat.....?"

I replied, "That was great, but that I needed to record the attendees for MY RECORDS."

Anyway, I suggest that anyone visiting with public officials begin their meeting this way. It sets a no BS tone that is unmistakable.

Does anyone care to hear how the rest of the meeting went?

I am absolutely on the edge of my chair, with bated breath. Please go on. (No sarcasm, I really want to know.)

 

[Samson]

Began when I arrived and asked if I'd missed signing the Meeting Attendance Sheet.

The principal chuckled, thinking I was kidding.....

So I pulled out my own prepared attendance sheet, including a description of my complaint, and the two questions I needed to ask.

I signed, then began its rotation. Principal said...."um, I thought we'd just have an informal chat.....?"

I replied, "That was great, but that I needed to record the attendees for MY RECORDS."

Anyway, I suggest that anyone visiting with public officials begin their meeting this way. It sets a no BS tone that is unmistakable.

Does anyone care to hear how the rest of the meeting went?

I am absolutely on the edge of my chair, with bated breath. Please go on. (No sarcasm, I really want to know.)

Well, I wanted to make sure this wasn't an echo chamber.

I was armed with all the graded papers I'd received, so as the attendance sheet was passed around, I let the teachers pick out their graded papers, then asked my first question:

Is what papers I have all the papers I have asked to see? Basically I simply want to confirm that the OS hasn't been grossly negligent in bringing home the stuff.

Indeed, all said, "YES," except the English Teacher. She claimed to have kept papers, despite my repeated requests to see them, and, she didn't bring them to the meeting.

Ok, NEXT QUESTION:

Is there anyone here who doesn't understand my complaint: That I'm not seeing graded papers ONE/WEEK?

Ya wanna know what the PRINCIPAL SAID???

 

[Cecilie1200]

Began when I arrived and asked if I'd missed signing the Meeting Attendance Sheet.

The principal chuckled, thinking I was kidding.....

So I pulled out my own prepared attendance sheet, including a description of my complaint, and the two questions I needed to ask.

I signed, then began its rotation. Principal said...."um, I thought we'd just have an informal chat.....?"

I replied, "That was great, but that I needed to record the attendees for MY RECORDS."

Anyway, I suggest that anyone visiting with public officials begin their meeting this way. It sets a no BS tone that is unmistakable.

Does anyone care to hear how the rest of the meeting went?

I am absolutely on the edge of my chair, with bated breath. Please go on. (No sarcasm, I really want to know.)

Well, I wanted to make sure this wasn't an echo chamber.

I was armed with all the graded papers I'd received, so as the attendance sheet was passed around, I let the teachers pick out their graded papers, then asked my first question:

Is what papers I have all the papers I have asked to see? Basically I simply want to confirm that the OS hasn't been grossly negligent in bringing home the stuff.

Indeed, all said, "YES," except the English Teacher. She claimed to have kept papers, despite my repeated requests to see them, and, she didn't bring them to the meeting.

Ok, NEXT QUESTION:

Is there anyone here who doesn't understand my complaint: That I'm not seeing graded papers ONE/WEEK?

Ya wanna know what the PRINCIPAL SAID???

I am not only fascinated, I'm hearing echoes of a meeting my own mother once had with my principal. I'm extremely curious to find out if this one will make the same mistake that long-ago one did.

 

[blu]

But don't feel bad. When my boys were that age, we went through a nice long period where every time my oldest would do something out of line he had to write a hundred sentences for me (I dictated the sentence) which explained why that wasn't a good thing to do, and how he would never do it again.

haha wow, my stepson is only 8 but we also make him write sentences, in script, what he hates, but we make him write less (100 would take him all day) and we make him come up with the sentences on his own about why what he did was wrong, who it affected, how it could affects peoples views on him, etc

 

[xotoxi]

Ya wanna know what the PRINCIPAL SAID???

Let me guess:

He laughed and rolled around in his seat while he grabbed at his groin.

He said "Sorry, but it tickles."

You said "What tickles?"

He said "The octopus that I have attached to my scrotum. You've got to try it!"

You said "I'm packin' cephalopod as we speak, bro!"

He said "AWWW HELL YEAH, MUTHAFUKKA!"

And then the two of you left together to grab a beer and review each other's octoporn collections.


Am I close?

 

[Foxfyre]

I would be interested.

Being active in PTA etc. and that organization having a good rapport with the teachers and administration, my kids' school didn't have the problems that Samson is explaining. Also the school held regular parent/teacher conferences and parents who were disinterested in those were called by the school to find out why. Drop out rate, almost nil. Graduation rate high 90 percentile.

But since then I have seen applications from today's graduates who indicated only marginal literacy, if that, and have talked with kids who have almost zero basics of American or world history, who couldn't write a properly spelled, coherent paragraph if their lives depended on it, who have minimal math and science and poor skills in both--what do I need that for? I'm not going to college--and who probably spent more time out of class than in it throughout highschool and were still graduated.

New Mexico graduation rate 69% which to me is criminal. In 2009, New Jersey led the USA in graduation rate with 82.1% of its highschoolers graduating within the scheduled time frame. I think that is also criminal this day and age.

When I was in school I got ALL my test papers returned with grades marked in big red letters. So did my kids.

I think Samson is more than reasonable expecting the same from his children's school.

And yeah, how did the meeting go?