I feel sad for this country

[antagon]

democracy's a principle how i see it. a rep democracy is a system based on that principle, just as a majority democracy is.

RD is founded not on any 'principle of democracy', but on principles of liberty and equality, both of which are protected by containing the lynch mobs of democracy and holding tight the reins of popular zeal.

national pride is a principle that has made america a great country. combined with democracy, we've had the ambition and confidence to make it great ourselves.

Incorrect. Personal pride made America's manufacturing great, as the labourer took pride in his work and achievements. Principles of equality made America great by calling for the equal status and protection of the negroe and the woman, helping to ensure that all who live here can enjoy their liberties. It is liberalism, not nationalism, that made America a great nation.

RD does not initself have anything to do with liberty or equality. these are separate principles that accompany US RD.

the fundamental principal is the noun 'democracy', simply modified by 'representative'. the core idea is 'of the people'.


sure, that there are other themes involved in american culture and our greatness as a nation does not lessen the contribution of good ol' patriotism. witness its effect on americas manufacturing during ww2.

organizational pride is valuable, a value that translates directly to that of patriotism and national pride. most people arent so insecure to feel that its existence threatens their individual pride or principles. the same must apply to governance' comfort with the individuality of its constituency.

 

[Citizen]

Just for information, this nation is not now, nor has ever been a Democracy, but is a Constitutional Republic.

IMHO, the reason some politicians want to foster the lie that we are a Democracy, where the majority rules, is because they want to overstep their powers as limited by our Constitution.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage." Alexander Tyler

Remind you of what is happening today in this country.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Just for information, this nation is not now, nor has ever been a Democracy, but is a Constitutional Republic.

CP is RD, a particular form of the type of rule known as democracy.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

that there are other themes involved in american culture and our greatness as a nation does not lessen the contribution of good ol' patriotism

Patriotism itself, blind loyalty to a theme and a flag, is no virtue.

 

[midcan5]

I feel really sad for this country because the concepty of individualsim and the liberty that goes with it has been squashed completely....

Negativism thy name is 'Ihopehefails.' Note even the name is a negative. Why not hope he succeeds? This liberal has never felt freer, nothing stops me from expressing my opinion, of working hard and relaxing sometimes, of reading whatever I want, of traveling wherever I want, of buying what I need. Time the reactionaries (aka republican and conservatives) looked in a mirror and saw themselves for what they are: impediments to progress and simple naysayers.


"If we will only allow that, as we progress, we remain unsure, we will leave opportunities for alternatives. We will not become enthusiastic for the fact, the knowledge, the absolute truth of the day, but remain always uncertain... In order to make progress, one must leave the door to the unknown ajar." Richard Feynman


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Rhetoric-Reaction-Perversity-Futility-Jeopardy/dp/067476868X/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1262522282&sr=1-3]Amazon.com: The Rhetoric of Reaction: Perversity, Futility, Jeopardy (9780674768680): Albert O. Hirschman: Books[/ame]

 

[Murf76]

I feel really sad for this country because the concepty of individualsim and the liberty that goes with it has been squashed completely. Look at how many people have to justify their actions to their leaders and to the political process as something that either benefits the whole or is politically correct in some way. It is no longer acceptable that a person can do things on their own merits for themselves or to even to hold an idea that isn't inline with PC doctrine without have to justify it in PC terms so one will not be "judged".

To sum it up, this country is not free or at least not free on the individual level.

Finally beginning to catch on?

I was actually talking about you people...

The statists we find on political message boards like this one are hardly representative of your fellow Americans. Think about the people you know in your day-to-day life. Can you think of any who are REALLY such blind slaves to leftist ideology that they fail to exercise reason? Or is it more often than not, that you run into people who simply do not understand the actual cost of their own generosity?

Personally, I can't think of a soul who fits the same hypocritical mold in real life as that of the statists we find daily on these message boards. Hell, I am unconvinced that most of these aren't PAID by the word by the DNC.

Nope. What I find instead when I observe my fellow Americans... are good-hearted people in need of better education. They simply don't understand that True Liberty cannot coexist in a Collectivist environment or that all government is essentially FORCE.

Take heart. These people might be Americans. But who knows... the anonymity of the internet being what it is.. maybe they aren't.
In any event, they are hardly "representative" of 'We The People'. That's why they work so strenuously to make it seem as if they are in greater numbers than they are.

Barack Obama got elected, not for his collectivist agenda on the "issues"... but because HE LIED. These people have sorely misjudged the "will of the people". They've missed their supposed "mandate". Barack Obama was elected to be a post-partisan, post-racial ethicist. He was supposed to clean up Washington, to stop the "business as usual" cycle of corruption. Instead, he has built upon it.

Statists hope that voters won't see the forest for the trees. They hope to misdirect our view in mad snarls of confusion and semantics. But the Forest of Corruption hasn't been felled. It's grown. And your fellow Americans WILL note it.

 

[Murf76]

Now we are always having to look over our shoulders, just to make sure, that the BigMan, isn't spying on our lives and privacy. What happened to the right to privacy, did it go out the window with the patriot act?From what understand, if you own a cell phone,the government can peep in on your phone calls, and track your calls and conversation, without you even knowing.Walking down the street, there are hidden cameras on every street corner.Makes wonder if the BigMan has ways that they can scope out your homes.What ever y'all do don't walk naked in your own homes, they may be spying in there.Iam sorry i don't really trust the CIA, or any government that is a threat to our privacy, let alone the Patriot Act.

Isn't it interesting though... how the very same people who rant on about "privacy rights" in reference to The Patriot Act... have NO PROBLEM with the government seizure of our medical records???

As of today, if Uncle Sam wanted a peek at your medical history, he'd have to present a subpoena to your doctor's office. In 2014 though, any government-authorized bureaucrat will have it at his fingertips as per the Porkulus bill.

I can't imagine any interpretation of the 4th amendment which would allow it.
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

In fact, I doubt you could get it past the 5th, 9th, or 10th either. But when we look specifically at the 4th... where's the "probable cause"? where are the warrants?
And if this seizure of our "papers" is found to be not "unreasonable" by virtue of collectivist government policy... what else might be seized in the name of expediency?

If the most intimate workings of our very bodies are subject to Big Brother's never-ending reach... why the **** do these hypocrites maunder on about "privacy"??? It's absurd.

 

[Navy1960]

In our government it is, perhaps, less necessary to guard against the abuse in the executive department than any other; because it is not the stronger branch of the system, but the weaker: It therefore must be levelled against the legislative, for it is the most powerful, and most likely to be abused, because it is under the least control; hence, so far as a declaration of rights can tend to prevent the exercise of undue power, it cannot be doubted but such declaration is proper. But I confess that I do conceive, that in a government modified like this of the United States, the great danger lies rather in the abuse of the community than in the legislative body. The prescriptions in favor of liberty, ought to be levelled against that quarter where the greatest danger lies, namely, that which possesses the highest prerogative of power: But this [is] not found in either the executive or legislative departments of government, but in the body of the people, operating by the majority against the minority.James Madison

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Finally beginning to catch on?

I was actually talking about you people...

The statists we find on political message boards like this one are hardly representative of your fellow Americans. Think about the people you know in your day-to-day life. Can you think of any who are REALLY such blind slaves to leftist ideology that they fail to exercise reason? Or is it more often than not, that you run into people who simply do not understand the actual cost of their own generosity?

Personally, I can't think of a soul who fits the same hypocritical mold in real life as that of the statists we find daily on these message boards. Hell, I am unconvinced that most of these aren't PAID by the word by the DNC.

Nope. What I find instead when I observe my fellow Americans... are good-hearted people in need of better education. They simply don't understand that True Liberty cannot coexist in a Collectivist environment or that all government is essentially FORCE.

Take heart. These people might be Americans. But who knows... the anonymity of the internet being what it is.. maybe they aren't.
In any event, they are hardly "representative" of 'We The People'. That's why they work so strenuously to make it seem as if they are in greater numbers than they are.

Barack Obama got elected, not for his collectivist agenda on the "issues"... but because HE LIED. These people have sorely misjudged the "will of the people". They've missed their supposed "mandate". Barack Obama was elected to be a post-partisan, post-racial ethicist. He was supposed to clean up Washington, to stop the "business as usual" cycle of corruption. Instead, he has built upon it.

Statists hope that voters won't see the forest for the trees. They hope to misdirect our view in mad snarls of confusion and semantics. But the Forest of Corruption hasn't been felled. It's grown. And your fellow Americans WILL note it.

I'm tapped out of rep at the moment...but this post deserves it to the max and I encourage all to rep Murf76...he nailed it.

 

[antagon]

Just for information, this nation is not now, nor has ever been a Democracy, but is a Constitutional Republic.

CP is RD, a particular form of the type of rule known as democracy.

well we agree on the principle behind all forms of democracy, finally.

one fish left for the fryer...

Patriotism itself, blind loyalty to a theme and a flag, is no virtue.

patriotism is national pride and ownership. theres no 'blind' aspect to the loyalty in a democracy, where the constituents have the right to determine the nature of their government and their society.

no virtue, you say, but americans reap the benefits of patriotism every day whether we contribute to it or not. society is a team effort. if youve played on one without team pride, youre at a disadvantage to an equal squad with it.

 

[CMike]

There is a great book called Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand.

 

[EriktheRed]

There is a great book called Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand.

There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.


- John Rogers

 

[Murf76]

Just for information, this nation is not now, nor has ever been a Democracy, but is a Constitutional Republic.

CP is RD, a particular form of the type of rule known as democracy.

well we agree on the principle behind all forms of democracy, finally.

one fish left for the fryer...

Patriotism itself, blind loyalty to a theme and a flag, is no virtue.

patriotism is national pride and ownership. theres no 'blind' aspect to the loyalty in a democracy, where the constituents have the right to determine the nature of their government and their society.

no virtue, you say, but americans reap the benefits of patriotism every day whether we contribute to it or not. society is a team effort. if youve played on one without team pride, youre at a disadvantage to an equal squad with it.

I'm a bit unclear as to what you're trying to say.

Patriotism seems rather empty and meaningless when it becomes a mere matter of borders. If there's nothing essentially different between the United States and say... France, why should one engender more love and loyalty than the other?

Two clods of dirt are just two clods of dirt. That is, until something we're not immediately able to perceive separates them in value. One clod might be fertile, with just the right amount of soil nutrients to provide for growth. The other might be poisoned by toxins we can't see.

It's not the patch of ground we stand upon which makes it exceptional. It's what that ground means. It's our uniquely American ideology, based upon the belief that people can be truly free and equal, and that they have a natural right to be so... which makes us "exceptional", different, worthy of patriotism.

The blind allegiance of Citizen to State is no different than that of Partisan to Party if it isn't grounded in thought. What's more, these are dangerous things in that they require us to put our rational judgment aside, accepting that of the State or the Party in lieu of our own. It's the appeal to our higher thought process, our birthright as human animals, which sets one ideology above another, engendering Patriotism worthy of a fight. The instinct to gang together is a lower function.

I suppose, if you insist, you could apply the word "Patriotism" to the lower function of "ganging together" for the sake of protection and security, and to achieve whatever nationalist goals the State might dictate. But is it a good thing at that point?... or is it as corruptible and fraught with the potential of misuse through propaganda as that of German "Patriotism" in the Nazi era?

For me, I see my allegiance as not to the clod of dirt upon which I stand, but to the higher plane of thought that ground represents. And while I won't turn my nose up to the protection and security of "ganging together", I won't follow a flag blindly and endow greater meaning to it than what it truly stands for.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

patriotism is national pride and ownership.

wtf is 'national ownership'? What Chaves did to the oil?

theres no 'blind' aspect to the loyalty in a democracy,

right...

Most partiots are partriots solely because thety are taught to be. They view the State as abovereproach, as a mythical thing.

where the constituents have the right to determine the nature of their government and their society.

In a raw democracy, there are no rights. Hence the republic, remember...

no virtue, you say, but americans reap the benefits of patriotism every day

Planes flying into buildings? That is your reward for blind loyalty to a flag and a nation that has no principles anymore.

 

[Gunny]

I feel really sad for this country because the concepty of individualsim and the liberty that goes with it has been squashed completely. Look at how many people have to justify their actions to their leaders and to the political process as something that either benefits the whole or is politically correct in some way. It is no longer acceptable that a person can do things on their own merits for themselves or to even to hold an idea that isn't inline with PC doctrine without have to justify it in PC terms so one will not be "judged".

To sum it up, this country is not free or at least not free on the individual level.

God Bless America,
Land that I love.
Stand beside her, and guide her
Thru the night with a light from above.
From the mountains, to the prairies,
To the oceans, white with foam
God bless America, My home sweet home.

Wimpy loser......If you don't love your country....just leave

Retard. If this is a good as it gets from you, you should leave.

 

[Gunny]

I feel really sad for this country because the concepty of individualsim and the liberty that goes with it has been squashed completely. Look at how many people have to justify their actions to their leaders and to the political process as something that either benefits the whole or is politically correct in some way. It is no longer acceptable that a person can do things on their own merits for themselves or to even to hold an idea that isn't inline with PC doctrine without have to justify it in PC terms so one will not be "judged".

To sum it up, this country is not free or at least not free on the individual level.

spoken like a true loser.

Just keep your head up the sheep's ass in front of you and quit bleeting, huh?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

'Bout time the Gunny chimed in

I await my share

 

[Gunny]

ahahahahahahaa

you have not been paying attention to what the right has been saying for nearly a decade about any compliants on Bush?

You mean actual complaints backed by facts? Or that crap you've been spewing for nearly a decade?

 

[Truthmatters]

There is very little substance to any of the rights claims and complaints on Obama.

There are court documents to show the complaints on Bush and team.

to some there is not such thing as evidence that doesnt fit their world view.

It really bad for America because when you opperate on falsehoods you **** everything up.

 

[antagon]

I feel really sad for this country because the concepty of individualsim and the liberty that goes with it has been squashed completely. Look at how many people have to justify their actions to their leaders and to the political process as something that either benefits the whole or is politically correct in some way. It is no longer acceptable that a person can do things on their own merits for themselves or to even to hold an idea that isn't inline with PC doctrine without have to justify it in PC terms so one will not be "judged".

To sum it up, this country is not free or at least not free on the individual level.

spoken like a true loser.

Just keep your head up the sheep's ass in front of you and quit bleeting, huh?

more like keep that ***** shit movin', really. i cant relate to a word of that bullshit in my life; i (and my flock?) dont want any *****'s sympathy.