I ask that those right of center not reply to this thread

[Dad2three]

So, thats the solution? Eliminate income inequality?

CREDIBLE economists have stated that for decades and decades, since the first GOP great depression, income inequality is one of the largest drivers of lack of good/higher quality education.


Income inequality, the US currently ranked 14th in upward mobility, can be reduced by PROGRESSIVE taxation, better and stronger safety nets, better funding of education and a desire to actually govern (GOOD GOV'T POLICIES) , something the GOP hasn't been keen on for 20+ years now!

[MENTION=49669]Dad2three[/MENTION]
Oh, and here is your chance. You claim CREDIBLE sources.

Please list them, and and add a link to their studies and calculations that lead them to the conclusion you support.

But, but I thought you had a busy week? lol

I already listed some, but here are more Bubba



How tax can reduce inequality

How tax can reduce inequality - OECD Observer




Reducing income inequality while boosting economic growth:
Can it be done?


This chapter identifies inequality patterns across OECD countries and provides new analysis of their policy and non-policy drivers. One key finding is that education and
anti-discrimination policies, well-designed labour market institutions and large and/or progressive tax and transfer systems can all reduce income inequality. On this basis, the chapter identifies several policy reforms that could yield a double dividend in terms of boosting GDP per capita and reducing income inequality, and also flags other policy areas where reforms would entail a trade-off between both objectives

http://www.oecd.org/eco/labour/49421421.pdf


Redistributive transfers and taxes reduce inequality by about a third

https://www.imf.org/external/np/speeches/2014/031314.htmSTUDY: These Charts Show There's Almost No Correlation Between Tax Rates and GDP

These Charts Show There's Probably No Correlation Between Tax Rates and GDP - Business Insider


Capital Gains Tax Rates and Economic Growth (or not)

If you read the editorial page of the Wall Street Journal (or surf around the nether regions of Forbes.com), you may come to the conclusion that no aspect of tax policy is more important for economic growth than the way we tax capital gains. You’d be wrong

Capital Gains Tax Rates and Economic Growth (or not) - Forbes

 

[Dad2three]

Personal property? lol

Benjamin Franklin, Founding Father, American diplomat, statesman, and scientist; letter to Robert Morris, December 25, 1783:

"All the property that is necessary to a Man, for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species, is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition. He that does not like civil Society on these Terms, let him retire and live among Savages. He can have no right to the benefits of Society, who will not pay his Club towards the Support of it."

Founding Fathers wanted to "Spread the Wealth"

So, confiscation of property is in the better interest of the middle class...I'll add it.

I believe Dad was referring to confiscating the wealth of the others, not his wealth. In the next post Disir repeats that theme by suggesting "rent controls" which, of course, are the confiscation of the wealth of property owners.

So you don't think that being PART OF US society helped create WEALTH of those 'job creators' huh?


Keynes wrote "The End of Laissez Faire" in 1926. He was correct then, and his insight remains more valid than any economics that conservative Libertarians propound ad infinitum and ad nauseum. Laissez Faire is nothing more than a childish Christmas wish of no substance; just hope and myth, and smoke and mirrors. Fails every time we try even the tiniest bit.

 

[Dad2three]

I personally like the idea of no CEO or business owner make say 20 times the amount of his lowest worker. It is not a salary cap you can pay them much as the shareholders want.

Uhm, this is exactly how it works right now.

Not really


The CEOs of S&P 500 Index company made, on average, 354 times the average wages of rank-and-file U.S. workers in 2012.





Higher the Pay, the Worse the CEO
Study: The Higher the Pay, the Worse the CEO (Vocativ)
Daniel Edward Rosen looks at a study from the University of Utah, which shows that companies that pay CEOs more than $20 million a year have average annual losses over $1 billion.


The Higher the Pay, the Worse the CEO | Vocativ

Roosevelt Take: Roosevelt Institute Fellow and Director of Research Susan Holmberg and Campus Network alumna Lydia Austin look at additional ways high CEO pay distorts the economy.


Fixing a Hole: How the Tax Code for Executive Pay Distorts Economic Incentives and Burdens Taxpayers

Fixing a Hole: How the Tax Code for Executive Pay Distorts Economic Incentives and Burdens Taxpayers | Roosevelt Institute


The Highest-Paid CEOs Are The Worst Performers, New Study Says

Across the board, the more CEOs get paid, the worse their companies do over the next three years, according to extensive new research. This is true whether they’re CEOs at the highest end of the pay spectrum or the lowest. “The more CEOs are paid, the worse the firm does over the next three years, as far as stock performance and even accounting performance,” says one of the authors of the study, Michael Cooper of the University of Utah’s David Eccles School of Business.


The Highest-Paid CEOs Are The Worst Performers, New Study Says - Forbes

 

[candycorn]

For those of you on the left.

The question is very simple, but with a very complex answer.

Detail what it is that you think will benefit the Middle Class.

Now, by benefit, I mean provide a means for them to retain their middle class status and to begin advancing themselves upward.

Take your time. Be specific and as detailed as you can.

The federal government instituting a play by where it pays for 60 hours of college level credit for every American based on the Social Security model.

Here are the details. As of, lets say, October 1, 2014; every American gets 60 hours of college credit or the equivalent clock-hours that 60 credit hours would equal. My neighbor may decide to expand on her BA degree and take MBA courses. I may use it to get a second degree; taking only or predominantly courses only on the major subject matter. A truck driver who is just a rig operator may use some of the 60 hours to get her/his hazardous material endorsement. Graduating high school seniors may want to just take their basic courses at the local community college or take vocational training such as pharmacy technology or cosmetology.

The only primary catches are that the schools must be state-funded institutions.

You can use your 60 hours any way you want. When you start drawing a paycheck after leaving college, the costs of the 60 hours is deducted at a very acceptable rate. Lets say, for example, 60 hours at Arizona State costs 15,000. That 15,000 is deducted from your future earnings plus 5%. So $15,750 is taken out automatically at about $35 per bi-weekly paycheck so the loan can be paid off in 20 years of working.

The government is getting a good deal from a more work-ready workforce.

The workers are getting a good deal from having the ability to learn trades paid for already.

The State government continues to benefit from more money flowing into State colleges.

win-win-win

 

[PratchettFan]

For those of you on the left.

The question is very simple, but with a very complex answer.

Detail what it is that you think will benefit the Middle Class.

Now, by benefit, I mean provide a means for them to retain their middle class status and to begin advancing themselves upward.

Take your time. Be specific and as detailed as you can.

Depending on the issue I'm on both sides of center. But this would be my list:

1- Legalize all drugs. Shut down all law enforcement operations dealing with drugs other than quality control. Drugs should be regulated and taxed. Any issues with them should be dealt with as products liability, like any other manufactured goods.
2- Create a national health care system in which medical care is free for everyone.
3- Reestablish true state universities with fees set up to insure that students will be able to attend and graduate without going into debt.
4- Start recognizing that adult education need not be university related. People who want to move on to trade schools and apprenticeships should have the same financial support as those going to state universities. They should be able to attend and graduate without going into debt.

 

[Disir]

Food speculation. We already have to deal with the effects of climate change, crop failures etc.

There is a crucial distinction between Traditional Speculators and Index Speculators:
Traditional Speculators provide liquidity by both buying and selling futures. Index
Speculators buy futures and then roll their positions by buying calendar spreads.
They never sell. Therefore, they consume liquidity and provide zero benefit to the futures markets.20

...The CFTC Has Invited Increased Speculation
When Congress passed the Commodity Exchange Act in 1936, they did so with the
understanding that speculators should not be allowed to dominate the commodities
futures markets. Unfortunately, the CFTC has taken deliberate steps to allow certain
speculators virtually unlimited access to the commodities futures markets.
The CFTC has granted Wall Street banks an exemption from speculative position limits
when these banks hedge over-the-counter swaps transactions.
21
This has effectively opened a loophole for unlimited speculation. When Index Speculators enter into commodity index swaps, which 85-90% of them do, they face no speculative position limits.
22

http://www.hsgac.senate.gov//imo/media/doc/052008Masters.pdf?attempt=2

Goldman Sachs made up to an estimated £251 million (US$400 million) in 2012 from speculating on food including wheat, maize and soy, prompting campaigners to accuse the bank of contributing to a growing global food crisis.

Goldman Sachs is recognised as the leading global player in financial speculation on food and other commodities, and created the first commodity index funds which allow huge amounts of money to be gambled on prices.

Anti-poverty campaign group the World Development Movement released the estimate today following the publication of Goldman Sachs’ 2012 results. The group is calling for tough rules to curb financial speculation on food, to prevent banks and hedge funds driving up prices.

The US has passed legislation to limit speculation, but the controls have not been implemented due to a legal challenge from Wall Street spearheaded by the International Swaps and Derivatives Association, of which Goldman Sachs is a leading member. Similar legislation is on the table at the EU, but the UK government has so far opposed effective controls. Goldman Sachs has lobbied against controls in both the US and the EU. ”

Goldman Sachs made up to £250 million betting on food prices in 2012 | World Development Movement

 

[ogibillm]

first and foremost i'd say a single payer medical system.

next i'd streamline the tax system and lower the overall tax burden on poor and middle class. eliminate deductions like the mortgage interest deduction and tax all income, regardless of source, the same - in other words no distinction between capital gains and salary income. lower overall tax rates, but an overall shift towards higher income earners.

adopt a personal finance curriculum mandatory for high school graduation. i'd also like to see some sort of 'gi bill' for volunteer work. maybe tuition at a community college covered in exchange for certain volunteer hours while in school and a commitment after. that one i'm still hazy on the details.

 

[SAYIT]

So, confiscation of property is in the better interest of the middle class...I'll add it.

I believe Dad was referring to confiscating the wealth of the others, not his wealth. In the next post Disir repeats that theme by suggesting "rent controls" which, of course, are the confiscation of the wealth of property owners.

So you don't think that being PART OF US society helped create WEALTH of those 'job creators' huh?


Keynes wrote "The End of Laissez Faire" in 1926. He was correct then, and his insight remains more valid than any economics that conservative Libertarians propound ad infinitum and ad nauseum. Laissez Faire is nothing more than a childish Christmas wish of no substance; just hope and myth, and smoke and mirrors. Fails every time we try even the tiniest bit.

America's capitalist economy sets the table. It has enabled millions to become "the owners." I would remind you that the bottom 50% of earners carry VIRTUALLY NONE of the federal income tax load. The infrastructure and security we ALL enjoy is paid for by the top 50% of earners. America allows all to join the party but guarantees none.

 

[Zmrzlina]

I'm centered so that is not left of center nor right of center.
My suggestion (and solution) is to open up all avenues of domestic fossil fuel extraction and grant no subsidies for marriages except those that can result in procreation. Give fathers equal rights (and responsibility) as far as their potential offspring are concerned and that should pretty much do it.

So not only will homosexuals be second class citizens but also those who are not fertile. What about couples who choose not to have kids, are they no longer allowed the benefits of marriage?

 

[Dad2three]

I believe Dad was referring to confiscating the wealth of the others, not his wealth. In the next post Disir repeats that theme by suggesting "rent controls" which, of course, are the confiscation of the wealth of property owners.

So you don't think that being PART OF US society helped create WEALTH of those 'job creators' huh?


Keynes wrote "The End of Laissez Faire" in 1926. He was correct then, and his insight remains more valid than any economics that conservative Libertarians propound ad infinitum and ad nauseum. Laissez Faire is nothing more than a childish Christmas wish of no substance; just hope and myth, and smoke and mirrors. Fails every time we try even the tiniest bit.

America's capitalist economy sets the table. It has enabled millions to become "the owners." I would remind you that the bottom 50% of earners carry VIRTUALLY NONE of the federal income tax load. The infrastructure and security we ALL enjoy is paid for by the top 50% of earners. America allows all to join the party but guarantees none.

You mean HEAVY progressive policies created the worlds largest middle class? Bottom half of US who went from nearly 18% of the pie to 11% since Reaganomics and carry twice the local/state tax burden of the top 1%ers and that piece of federal revenues that is only 42% of the pie, income taxes???


AmeriKa has been turned, to benefit a few at the expense of many

George Washington, nine months before his inauguration as the first president, predicted that America "will be the most favorable country of any kind in the world for persons of industry and frugality, possessed of moderate capital, to inhabit." And, he continued, "it will not be less advantageous to the happiness of the lowest class of people, because of the equal distribution of property."


http://www.newsweek.com/2014/02/07/why-thomas-jefferson-favored-profit-sharing-245454.html

 

[Dad2three]

I believe Dad was referring to confiscating the wealth of the others, not his wealth. In the next post Disir repeats that theme by suggesting "rent controls" which, of course, are the confiscation of the wealth of property owners.

So you don't think that being PART OF US society helped create WEALTH of those 'job creators' huh?


Keynes wrote "The End of Laissez Faire" in 1926. He was correct then, and his insight remains more valid than any economics that conservative Libertarians propound ad infinitum and ad nauseum. Laissez Faire is nothing more than a childish Christmas wish of no substance; just hope and myth, and smoke and mirrors. Fails every time we try even the tiniest bit.

America's capitalist economy sets the table. It has enabled millions to become "the owners." I would remind you that the bottom 50% of earners carry VIRTUALLY NONE of the federal income tax load. The infrastructure and security we ALL enjoy is paid for by the top 50% of earners. America allows all to join the party but guarantees none.

80% of the population owns 5% of the wealth.

Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power

The middle class has been eviscerated.



Too bad conservatives get their economic education from Rush and Fox who parrot Heritage Foundation talking points.






Third World countries. One of the things they all had in common was a small, very rich elite, small middle class, and a large lower class. They also shared very low economic growth as a result. This has been known for at least 50 years. The US has been going in this direction for at least the last 30 years as we have gradually de-industrialized and government policies (such as trickle down economics) have promoted the shift of wealth from the lower and middle classes to the economic elite

 

[Mojo2]

For those of you on the left.

The question is very simple, but with a very complex answer.

Detail what it is that you think will benefit the Middle Class.

Now, by benefit, I mean provide a means for them to retain their middle class status and to begin advancing themselves upward.

Take your time. Be specific and as detailed as you can.

What are you doing, preparing your next anti-American position to adopt?

 

[jasonnfree]

To much to unpack and analyize right now, but while I wait for others to weigh in, I'll make a single comment on how I see your position (even though it isn't yours, its the person who wrote the article).

You believe that taxing the rich to the point that their income is no greater than the middle class is essentially the answer to helping the middle class regain the benefit of upward mobility?

No greater than? You mean from 1945-1980 the US didn't have any rich? When the top 1% ONLY had 6%-9% of ALL US income versus 23% by 2007 and Reaganomics/Bushanomics?



Sorry, tax policy has AND can help rebuild the US middle class that was CREATED using PROGRESSIVE policies!


Of course it's MUCH more important for 10 hedge funders to make more than 250,000 teachers AND to pay a smaller SHARE of their income in taxes right?

Ten Hedge Fund Managers Made More Combined Than 250,000 Teachers | Too Big Has Failed

As I said, there is a lot there that needs to be unpacked and analyzed. At this point in the thread, I want more people to weigh in on specific policy that will meet the criteria I laid out.

Since I have a 60+ hour week ahead of Me, I deliberately set the thread up so that everyone can have a chance to come up with everything they can think of that will create policy to aid the middle class. Over the course of the week, I'll make comments to stimulate more thought to help expand the growing body of ideas.

A lot of the ideas do involve having the very wealthy and corporations giving up a little. An idea you seem to have on automatic reject even though the very wealthy have had all the gains and the lower income classes haven't seen any gains in their incomes and are maxed out as it is. The idea one poster had for stock transactions Like the tax on stock transactions. A penny tax on stock transactions, and especially automatic transactions, would net billions that could go toward education for example.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

For those of you on the left.

The question is very simple, but with a very complex answer.

Detail what it is that you think will benefit the Middle Class.

Now, by benefit, I mean provide a means for them to retain their middle class status and to begin advancing themselves upward.

Take your time. Be specific and as detailed as you can.

Complex question reduced to simple answer: Henry Ford said he wanted his company to build a product that even his own employees could afford. And he did. And FMC served as a model going into the 20th century.

So fast forward to Thanksgiving 2013 and the donation boxes Walmart put out for their employees to donate goods and food to THEIR OTHER EMPLOYEES less fortunate then they were!

It's enough already that tens of thousands of Walmart employees are on federal assistance in order to make ends meet while the 3-4 of the Waltons themselves are in the top 10 richest Americans on Forbes 400:
Christy Walton & family
$35.4 B Jackson, Wyoming Wal-Mart
7
Jim Walton
$33.8 B Bentonville, Arkansas Wal-Mart
8
Alice Walton
$33.5 B Fort Worth, Texas Wal-Mart
9
S. Robson Walton
$33.3 B Bentonville, Arkansas Wal-Mart

So the Waltons have $135,000,000,000 in total wealth and they union-bust and keep their employees on food stamps. And you have to ask what we can do to rebuild the Middle Class. Start in Arkansas.

Don't even get me started on Reagan and Clinton lifting bank regulations and allowing the mortgage bankers to go wild and totally fuck this economy in 2007 after insuring themselves against the failure of their trash home loan scandal.

 

[Dad2three]

For those of you on the left.

The question is very simple, but with a very complex answer.

Detail what it is that you think will benefit the Middle Class.

Now, by benefit, I mean provide a means for them to retain their middle class status and to begin advancing themselves upward.

Take your time. Be specific and as detailed as you can.

Complex question reduced to simple answer: Henry Ford said he wanted his company to build a product that even his own employees could afford. And he did. And FMC served as a model going into the 20th century.

So fast forward to Thanksgiving 2013 and the donation boxes Walmart put out for their employees to donate goods and food to THEIR OTHER EMPLOYEES less fortunate then they were!

It's enough already that tens of thousands of Walmart employees are on federal assistance in order to make ends meet while the 3-4 of the Waltons themselves are in the top 10 richest Americans on Forbes 400:
Christy Walton & family
$35.4 B Jackson, Wyoming Wal-Mart
7
Jim Walton
$33.8 B Bentonville, Arkansas Wal-Mart
8
Alice Walton
$33.5 B Fort Worth, Texas Wal-Mart
9
S. Robson Walton
$33.3 B Bentonville, Arkansas Wal-Mart

So the Waltons have $135,000,000,000 in total wealth and they union-bust and keep their employees on food stamps. And you have to ask what we can do to rebuild the Middle Class. Start in Arkansas.

Don't even get me started on Reagan and Clinton lifting bank regulations and allowing the mortgage bankers to go wild and totally fuck this economy in 2007 after insuring themselves against the failure of their trash home loan scandal.

I agree with everything but Clinton lifting regs, Bush's subprime crisis was a direct result of REGULATOR failure under Bush, who ignored FBI warnings that started in 2004, as he pushed his 'home ownership society' because he had zero growth without it


Regulations were in place, like under Reagan who ignored regulator warnings that started in 1984 that would've stopped 90%+ of his S&L crisis


We elect those that 'don't believe in Gov't' then are shocked Gov't fails under them *Shaking head*

 

[Shanty]

For those of you on the left.

The question is very simple, but with a very complex answer.

Detail what it is that you think will benefit the Middle Class.

Now, by benefit, I mean provide a means for them to retain their middle class status and to begin advancing themselves upward.

Take your time. Be specific and as detailed as you can.

A commitment by society to create middle class jobs. The quick answer is to discard right wing, failed economic policies that have harmed the vast majority of people in the US. Allowing people to organize freely, and ending restrictions towards those aims, would allow the markets to better decide wages, instead of having everything so one sided.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Affordable housing for the middle class and working class through both rent control and loans less than 50K. There are those that can afford the mortgage payments but cannot afford the down payment because the rent keeps getting jacked up. The ability to purchase homes instead of dealing with a landlord will allow people to invest in their own property which slum lords don't like to do, reduce crime by anchoring people rather than have a high turnover or transient population and pay property taxes.

Rent caps? I'm dubious, but I'll add it.

Look everyone! The troll changed his plan and is now compiling a list. He's dutifully turning your well thought out replies into bumper stickers.....that he will present after a day or so as the left's prescription for the middle class!

Let's see what he's got so far:

1. Raise taxes on the rich. ( transaction tax )
2. More handouts to the poor...especially minorities. ( rent caps )
3. Steal stuff and give it to those who didn't earn it. ( Ben Franklin quote )

How am I doin?

 

[longknife]

I didn't bother to read the post! But, if I want to respond - place it where the sunshine cannot be viewed!

Read much?

I didn't demand that anyone on the right not respond. When someone says, "I ask" then it is a request, isn't it? However, the purpose of the thread is to give the left a canvas for them to explain exactly, in exquisite detail, what they believe needs to be done to benefit the middle class.

But thanks for not playing.

It was tongue-in-cheek and I haven't read any more of the thread. Will unsubscribe right now.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Disir, right to work means just that, right to work. Unions have run roughshod over American industry too long, look what they've done to Auto industry. I would like to have a choice of whom I work for, rather than be coaxed, pushed or prodded to join some union backed company.

Everybody benefits in states that have unions. Even if you don't belong in one. Just as a heads up the union didn't destroy the auto industry. Crap ass vehicles and gas guzzlers and making vehicles (by design) that cost too much that fall apart too quickly destroyed the auto industry.

Yes ok union workers of the 70 a and 8os are blameless.

 

[Wyatt earp]

For those of you on the left.

The question is very simple, but with a very complex answer.

Detail what it is that you think will benefit the Middle Class.

Now, by benefit, I mean provide a means for them to retain their middle class status and to begin advancing themselves upward.

Take your time. Be specific and as detailed as you can.

A commitment by society to create middle class jobs. The quick answer is to discard right wing, failed economic policies that have harmed the vast majority of people in the US. Allowing people to organize freely, and ending restrictions towards those aims, would allow the markets to better decide wages, instead of having everything so one sided.

The people didn't want unions , look at the recent volkswagon vote look at the Scott.walker recall