"I and the Father are one."

[Sky Dancer]

Would you be happy if I insisted that being a lesbian meant that you had to be married to a man? Or if every time you pointed out how stupid that was I changed the meaning of something to prove I was right.

My refusal to allow you to believe that up is green is not symptomatic of me having a small mind. In order to understand someone, or something, you have to accept them, or it, for who they are. If you were actually interested in learning about Jesus, God, or being a Christian, I would talk to you earnestly, and treat you with respect an patience. Since you are not, I will treat you the way Jesus treated the Pharisees.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I was trying to find common ground. I guess we have none. Goodbye. I will leave you completely alone now. Take care.

We do not have any because you reject my point of view without any discussion, and then self righteously claim you were reaching out to me by forcing me to accept your views. That is no different that those you rail against who say everyone has the same right to marry anyone, as long as they marry the opposite sex.

You are what you hate, which is why you should reject hate.

Yes, I find your view limiting. I'm trying to find common ground, and I don't find it with you, even though I tell you in all honesty, I have my personal relationship to God and Jesus.

I'm sure there are other topics we can discuss.

Take care.

sky

 

[Sky Dancer]

Sane people do not try to change the entire universe so that it revolves around them and their definitions. Like I keep telling you, you are crazy.

You have a very small mind when it comes to your faith. Why aren't you happy that I find my way to understanding God and Jesus in a personal way?

Why would anyone who loves truth be happy if someone embraces lies?

We aren't meant to find our own way. The Lord has provided help to lead us to Him. Namely the scriptures, the Spirit, and prayer.

You can learn more in 5 mins of looking into heaven then all the theorizing, reading, and personal interpretations.

It may interest you to know that many people who consider themselves Christian see God and Jesus the way I do. I just spent six days with 35 of them.

 

[MarcATL]

Catholics and many Protestant faiths believe in the trinity. They believe that God, Jesus and the holy spirit are one and the same. They claim when Jesus says such things he means he IS God. Something he clearly does NOT mean.

Through out John Jesus spends a great deal of time reminding people he is NOT God. he is not the Father. And those that believe in the trinity simply ignore it. No where in the bible is it proclaimed that jesus is God, nor that the Holy Spirit is God. It is a fabrication of man.

Say whaaaat....!!!?!??

Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Not everyone who says to me, “Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Source=http://kingjbible.com/john/1.htm

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us

Jesus said:
I and my Father are one.

For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

And from the Old Testament (in case you want to "go there")....

Jesus, Father of Eternity, yet a Son in time; Chosen of God and elect, yet despised of man; Born King of the Jews, yet rejected by them; Born of a woman, a virgin, yet had no father; Came from Bethlehem, Egypt, Nazareth. Prophecy says "Out of (Bethlehem) shall he come forth"

16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me. 17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel;

For unto us a Child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder: and his name will be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

I take it...you're a Jehovah's Witness?

 

[barry1960]

Catholics and many Protestant faiths believe in the trinity. They believe that God, Jesus and the holy spirit are one and the same. They claim when Jesus says such things he means he IS God. Something he clearly does NOT mean.

Through out John Jesus spends a great deal of time reminding people he is NOT God. he is not the Father. And those that believe in the trinity simply ignore it. No where in the bible is it proclaimed that jesus is God, nor that the Holy Spirit is God. It is a fabrication of man.

I your deny the deity of Jesus you are outside the mainstream of Christian belief and your belief is heretical.

 

[MarcATL]

Catholics and many Protestant faiths believe in the trinity. They believe that God, Jesus and the holy spirit are one and the same. They claim when Jesus says such things he means he IS God. Something he clearly does NOT mean.

Through out John Jesus spends a great deal of time reminding people he is NOT God. he is not the Father. And those that believe in the trinity simply ignore it. No where in the bible is it proclaimed that jesus is God, nor that the Holy Spirit is God. It is a fabrication of man.

I your deny the deity of Jesus you are outside the mainstream of Christian belief and your belief is heretical.

Clearly sgt doesn't know WHAT the heck he's talking about.

The apostle Paul is one of the ones that spoke the most of the divinity of Christ....as I posted above.

 

[Obamerican]

I notice in this section of the board that so-called Christians avoid confrontation in supporting their beliefs. I see it as a, "I'm a Christian and you're not. I'm going to Heaven and you're going to HELL!!!!" I've been told that countless times over the years and I don't care. The beauty of religion is if you're a Christian and it's all a lie you'll never know it when you die. The perfect scam.
Pay up suckers......................................

 

[AOmega]

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

Jesus is God.

These are believers:
"12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: " John 1

The "sons of god" was a title for angelic beings in the Old Testament (b'nai Ha Elohim in Hebrew). We are going to be put on the level and status of angelic beings in God's eyes through Christ. We will never be God or as God. We will be one with Jesus in that we share in His righteousness. but we will not have his power or authority.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I notice in this section of the board that so-called Christians avoid confrontation in supporting their beliefs. I see it as a, "I'm a Christian and you're not. I'm going to Heaven and you're going to HELL!!!!" I've been told that countless times over the years and I don't care. The beauty of religion is if you're a Christian and it's all a lie you'll never know it when you die. The perfect scam.
Pay up suckers......................................

That must be why I specifically pointed out that who gets into heaven, or hell, is not my decision.

 

[eots]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4QBTot7ObM]I Still Pray - Kasey Chambers - YouTube[/ame]

 

[RetiredGySgt]

There is no Trinity. Jesus made clear he is the SON of God. Nothing that has been posted disagrees with that, in fact it supports it. Jesus was clear he is NOT the Father, he is the Son.

 

[Caroljo]

I notice in this section of the board that so-called Christians avoid confrontation in supporting their beliefs. I see it as a, "I'm a Christian and you're not. I'm going to Heaven and you're going to HELL!!!!" I've been told that countless times over the years and I don't care. The beauty of religion is if you're a Christian and it's all a lie you'll never know it when you die. The perfect scam.
Pay up suckers......................................

You see it all wrong, but that's up to you....Christians shouldn't be telling people they're going to hell, it's not up to them. We'll all find out one day who is right, and i'd rather be on the side of God and be wrong and find out there's nothing after life (of course i wouldn't know...i'd be dead!) than reject God and find out i was wrong. Satan can be a pretty persuasive little "devil"...and many have been "scammed" by him. That's what he does. He puts doubts in the minds of the weak.

 

[AmericanFirst]

It is amazing how many Christians are clueless what is being taught in the Bible. They go to church every Sunday and then trash someone that doesn't think just like they do.

Short story:

Moving into Salt Lake City and as I'm unloading the moving van a guy from across the street comes over and asks if I need any help. I say no, we're almost done and, as he walks away, turns around and says, "Are you of the church?" I say no and for the next 5 years the man never says another word to me.

A Lot of Christians don't even understand what their pastor, minister, whatever, are even telling them. Robotic idiots.

It is non Christians that are clueless.

 

[AmericanFirst]

There is no Trinity. Jesus made clear he is the SON of God. Nothing that has been posted disagrees with that, in fact it supports it. Jesus was clear he is NOT the Father, he is the Son.

There is a trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, it is in the Bible read it.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

There is no Trinity. Jesus made clear he is the SON of God. Nothing that has been posted disagrees with that, in fact it supports it. Jesus was clear he is NOT the Father, he is the Son.

There is a trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, it is in the Bible read it.

Provide for me a single quote claiming God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost are one entity.

I can provide quotes were Jesus admonishes the crowd he is NOT God, he is NOT the Father.

 

[Dragon]

If we tried to interpret that to mean what you want it to mean than Jesus would be saying that all Christians have the power to grant eternal life to anyone who follows them. That would be crazy.

No, there's a lot of other evidence in the Bible that that is exactly what was meant. He stated several times that everything he had done, they would gain the same power to do, through the Holy Spirit; that they were all sons and daughters of God and one with God; etc. One of the names he often chose for himself, "the Son of Man," simply referred to a man, but in Aramaic it has overtones of divine connection; the clear implication is that what he was saying about himself was, at least potentially, true of everyone.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If we tried to interpret that to mean what you want it to mean than Jesus would be saying that all Christians have the power to grant eternal life to anyone who follows them. That would be crazy.

No, there's a lot of other evidence in the Bible that that is exactly what was meant. He stated several times that everything he had done, they would gain the same power to do, through the Holy Spirit; that they were all sons and daughters of God and one with God; etc. One of the names he often chose for himself, "the Son of Man," simply referred to a man, but in Aramaic it has overtones of divine connection; the clear implication is that what he was saying about himself was, at least potentially, true of everyone.

Another idiot.

Jesus never said anyone had the power to grant eternal life. The things you are talking about are clearly meant to apply to other things, not being God.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Doesn't this mean to be one with God the way Jesus was one with God?

Several things here..........first off, you have to remember that Yeshua was JEWISH and that He taught as a rabbi, which means that He would have known the Torah, and the Tanach, as well as other Jewish writings.

In that theology, they teach that God carves off a small piece of Himself, and puts in in the embryo created by your parents at about the 40 day mark, which is what is your soul. Interestingly enough, the human fetus doesn't grow a nervous system until around that point.

So basically what He was referring to, was that ALL OF US have a small piece of God inside of us (i.e. the soul), and that we are ALL a small part of God. Also what He was referring to when He stated "the Kingdom of Heaven is within".

As far as Yeshua being God? Nope. In one of the miracles that He did when He cast the demons out of a man and into some pigs that went over a cliff, after the pigs died, He turned towards the man and told him to "go forth and tell people what God has done for you through Me". In that statement, he made a very clear distinction between Him and God.

After Rome sacked Jerusalem and took parts of their religion and created the Catholic Church, they HEAVILY edited the Bible, mainly to focus the OT to point to the NT, and make Yeshua the prime character, with Revelation (again, HEAVILY edited) pointing towards His return.

Incidentally, the Rapture is a myth.

And...........fwiw...........you can't go ANYWHERE for eternity. Why? Simple actually, you have a beginning, so no, you can't go to hell for eternity.

However, you can go somewhere forever. John 3:16 states "For God so loved the world that He gave His only Begotton Son, so that whosovever beleiveth in Him, shall not perish, but have EVERLASTING life".

Nope, eternity was not mentioned.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Doesn't this mean to be one with God the way Jesus was one with God?

Several things here..........first off, you have to remember that Yeshua was JEWISH and that He taught as a rabbi, which means that He would have known the Torah, and the Tanach, as well as other Jewish writings.

In that theology, they teach that God carves off a small piece of Himself, and puts in in the embryo created by your parents at about the 40 day mark, which is what is your soul. Interestingly enough, the human fetus doesn't grow a nervous system until around that point.

So basically what He was referring to, was that ALL OF US have a small piece of God inside of us (i.e. the soul), and that we are ALL a small part of God. Also what He was referring to when He stated "the Kingdom of Heaven is within".

As far as Yeshua being God? Nope. In one of the miracles that He did when He cast the demons out of a man and into some pigs that went over a cliff, after the pigs died, He turned towards the man and told him to "go forth and tell people what God has done for you through Me". In that statement, he made a very clear distinction between Him and God.

After Rome sacked Jerusalem and took parts of their religion and created the Catholic Church, they HEAVILY edited the Bible, mainly to focus the OT to point to the NT, and make Yeshua the prime character, with Revelation (again, HEAVILY edited) pointing towards His return.

Incidentally, the Rapture is a myth.

And...........fwiw...........you can't go ANYWHERE for eternity. Why? Simple actually, you have a beginning, so no, you can't go to hell for eternity.

However, you can go somewhere forever. John 3:16 states "For God so loved the world that He gave His only Begotton Son, so that whosovever beleiveth in Him, shall not perish, but have EVERLASTING life".

Nope, eternity was not mentioned.

I don't relate to this post.

 

[Sky Dancer]

If we tried to interpret that to mean what you want it to mean than Jesus would be saying that all Christians have the power to grant eternal life to anyone who follows them. That would be crazy.

No, there's a lot of other evidence in the Bible that that is exactly what was meant. He stated several times that everything he had done, they would gain the same power to do, through the Holy Spirit; that they were all sons and daughters of God and one with God; etc. One of the names he often chose for himself, "the Son of Man," simply referred to a man, but in Aramaic it has overtones of divine connection; the clear implication is that what he was saying about himself was, at least potentially, true of everyone.

Greater works than me, is what he said. He meant that if we follow in his footsteps of being one with God, we can achieve great things.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Doesn't this mean to be one with God the way Jesus was one with God?

Several things here..........first off, you have to remember that Yeshua was JEWISH and that He taught as a rabbi, which means that He would have known the Torah, and the Tanach, as well as other Jewish writings.

In that theology, they teach that God carves off a small piece of Himself, and puts in in the embryo created by your parents at about the 40 day mark, which is what is your soul. Interestingly enough, the human fetus doesn't grow a nervous system until around that point.

So basically what He was referring to, was that ALL OF US have a small piece of God inside of us (i.e. the soul), and that we are ALL a small part of God. Also what He was referring to when He stated "the Kingdom of Heaven is within".

As far as Yeshua being God? Nope. In one of the miracles that He did when He cast the demons out of a man and into some pigs that went over a cliff, after the pigs died, He turned towards the man and told him to "go forth and tell people what God has done for you through Me". In that statement, he made a very clear distinction between Him and God.

After Rome sacked Jerusalem and took parts of their religion and created the Catholic Church, they HEAVILY edited the Bible, mainly to focus the OT to point to the NT, and make Yeshua the prime character, with Revelation (again, HEAVILY edited) pointing towards His return.

Incidentally, the Rapture is a myth.

And...........fwiw...........you can't go ANYWHERE for eternity. Why? Simple actually, you have a beginning, so no, you can't go to hell for eternity.

However, you can go somewhere forever. John 3:16 states "For God so loved the world that He gave His only Begotton Son, so that whosovever beleiveth in Him, shall not perish, but have EVERLASTING life".

Nope, eternity was not mentioned.

I don't relate to this post.

Hey Sky, Buddha taught basically the same thing as Yeshua. Only, Buddha called it "becoming enlightened" instead of telling people that "the Father and I are One", because as an enlightened being, you see your connection with all others.