I am applying for a license to carry

[Dadoalex]

You challenged me to find stories where people were killed or murdered with by a boxer, a bow and arrow etc. I did. You lose.

Where you are going wrong is claiming that the only use of a firearm is for killing. You call a firearm “a device with the singular purpose of killing.“

Laying beside my iPad right now is a switchblade knife. You.could argue that a switchblade knife is “a device with the singular purpose of killing.” I have never killed anyone or anything with this knife but it has opened countless cardboard boxes and cut and stripped wire. I could use it to slice a tomato or peel an apple but I don’t because I prefer to use a fixed blade knife for such tasks as they are easier to clean.

View attachment 556436

There are more guns in our nation than people. If their only use was killing we probably would not have any one left alive in our nation and no animals either.

Competition target pistols are very expensive and often fire a low powered round. They were designed to be extremely accurate tools for target shooting not to kill.

Here is a competitive target pistol used in NRA Bullseye Competition and a review of the firearm. Note there is no mention of killing because accuracy is the primary design function.
’
View attachment 556438

An Official Journal Of The NRA | A Look Back at the Smith & Wesson Model 41

In 1947, after 10 years of development and research, Smith & Wesson debuted what it believed to be the ultimate rimfire target pistol, the Model 41.

www.americanrifleman.org

No, I challenged you to find a story where someone boxed (gloves, shorts, referee) a person to death outside of a boxing match, or judo match, or winter olympic event...

And what does it shoot? lasers like at the arcade?
So, once again , provide a legitimate use for a firearm that does not involve killing WHICH INCLUDES PRACTICING KILLING.
You can do it!
And by that I mean you can NEVER do it!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Dr Grump]

Yee Haw....

 

[Batcat]

No, I challenged you to find a story where someone boxed (gloves, shorts, referee) a person to death outside of a boxing match, or judo match, or winter olympic event...

And what does it shoot? lasers like at the arcade?
So, once again , provide a legitimate use for a firearm that does not involve killing WHICH INCLUDES PRACTICING KILLING.
You can do it!
And by that I mean you can NEVER do it!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Here is your challenge. …

As soon as you point out the murders committed by criminals using javelins or Olympic bows, or judo, or someone criminally boxing someone to death then you may have a point.

Where did you require I find a story where someone criminally boxed someone to death outside a boxing match with a referee present? How many illegal fights occur outside the ring with a referee present? Finding one example would be like finding a diamond ring in a cereal box.

******

You offer me an excellent opportunity to take on your illogical anti-gun viewpoint that guns are only good for killing and I appreciate that. Thanks Much!

For today‘s debate I will use outside sources. Of course they will not change you mind but that is fine. Perhaps another person reading these posts will learn something or get interested in the sport of shooting. Notice I didn’t say. ,”The sport of killing.”

The Noble Uses of Firearms by Alan Korwin

www.gunlaws.com

THE NOBLE USES OF FIREARMS

Plus: Gun hatred and a gun-free world​

by Alan Korwin

In the great din of the national firearms debate it's easy to lose sight of the noble and respectable place firearms hold and have always held in American life. While some gun use in America is criminal and despicable, other applications appeal to the highest ideals our society cherishes, and are enshrined in and ensured by the statutes on the books:

• Protecting your family in emergencies
• Personal safety and self defense
• Preventing and deterring crimes
• Detaining criminals for arrest
• Guarding our national borders
• Preserving our interests abroad
• Helping defend our allies
• Overcoming tyranny
• International trade
• Emergency preparedness
• Commerce and employment
• Historical preservation and study
• Obtaining food by hunting
• Olympic competition
• Collecting
• Sporting pursuits
• Target practice
• Recreational shooting[/i]

***snip***

So I ask again, do you hate guns, and wish they would just go away? You may be suffering from hoplophobia, the morbid fear of weapons. This can be treated -- just like fear of water or bugs or anything else -- but first it must be understood. Denying a phobia is one of the signs that you have it.

Read Dr. Sarah Thompson's careful, researched and clear explanation of what's behind gun fear. You may never want to own a gun -- many people do not -- but you owe it to yourself to understand the subject, and not be simply ruled by your fears.

The Purpose of a Gun Is Not to Kill - Econlib

If the purpose of guns were to kill, cops would not be allowed to have them because, in civilized countries contrary to James Bond movies, they don’t have a license to kill. A tool or instrument, observed Friedrich Hayek, cannot be defined outside of human purposes. For example, the definition...

www.econlib.org

The Purpose of a Gun Is Not to Kill/b]

By: Pierre Lemieux​

An automobile is, to quote Merriam-Webster again, an “automotive vehicle designed for passenger transportation.” People use it to go from point A to point B. Under this general purpose lie many specific ones. For many, A will be mainly their homes and B, their workplaces. Some, no doubt, will use their car to go and commit a bank robbery, and escape afterwards. For terrorists, the space between point A and point B may be any place where there are pedestrians to crush. Collectors and museums may even dispense with the transportation function, although the original purpose remains part of the attraction.

Now, consider a gun. The most general definition of Merriam-Webster is “a device that throws a projectile.” Some individuals may use the projectile-throwing power to kill—a killer-for-hire or a terrorist, for example. But most will use it for another purpose: to assure their own self-defense or to defend others against criminals, or even to protect their property or their customers’ property. Armored truck personnel carry guns as a disincentive to would-be robbers. When they own or carry a gun, some individuals are buying peace of mind, knowing that they have an efficient means of self-defense in case they ever need it. Collectors do not even use a gun to throw a projectile, but instead to showcase it.

The purpose of a gun is not generally to kill. A handgun is designed for self-defense at short distances. Hitting a target farther than 100 feet or even just 50 feet is difficult: by then, the bullet has lost much of its speed and energy, and dropped significantly. Although a handgun may kill or maim an aggressor, its purpose is to stop him, to stop the threat. Hence the discussion of the “stopping power” of caliber (diameter of the bullet) versus velocity.

Criminals use handguns to commit aggressions, as they can use cars to travel where their victims are. But killing is not the (general) purpose of a car, nor is it really that of a handgun. If one is intent on killing, a long gun (rifle or shotgun) is more convenient. In the state where I live (as I suspect in many other states), one may carry a loaded handgun in a car but not a long gun. The reason is that a long gun is not efficient for self-defense, especially in a confined place, while it would be very effective at ambushing somebody (or indiscriminately shooting people).

Even in the case of long guns, it is at misleading to state that the purpose is to kill—at least to kill another human. For many if not most owners of long guns, the purpose is to hunt animals or for protection against four-legged predators such as brown or white bears. Even if many owners of long guns probably think that they could come handy during civil (or government) disturbances, the main purpose would remain to stop the threat, not necessarily to kill the threatening individuals.

Thus, the purpose of guns is not to kill, except in particular, and often criminal, circumstances. The purpose of a gun is to neutralize threats and deter aggressors. Even if we assume that allowing guns results in more murders than banning them (which I don’t think is supported by available evidence), it does not follow that government should ban them, whether abruptly or stealthily. We encounter here the general problem of cost-benefit analysis: What allows us to say that preventing the possible killing of some unknown Mr. and Mrs. X in the future is worth more than prohibiting a known Miss Y from owning or carrying a gun for self-defense hic et nunc?

 

[Dadoalex]

Here is your challenge. …



Where did you require I find a story where someone criminally boxed someone to death outside a boxing match with a referee present? How many illegal fights occur outside the ring with a referee present? Finding one example would be like finding a diamond ring in a cereal box.

******

You offer me an excellent opportunity to take on your illogical anti-gun viewpoint that guns are only good for killing and I appreciate that. Thanks Much!

For today‘s debate I will use outside sources. Of course they will not change you mind but that is fine. Perhaps another person reading these posts will learn something or get interested in the sport of shooting. Notice I didn’t say. ,”The sport of killing.”

The Noble Uses of Firearms by Alan Korwin

www.gunlaws.com

THE NOBLE USES OF FIREARMS

Plus: Gun hatred and a gun-free world​

by Alan Korwin

In the great din of the national firearms debate it's easy to lose sight of the noble and respectable place firearms hold and have always held in American life. While some gun use in America is criminal and despicable, other applications appeal to the highest ideals our society cherishes, and are enshrined in and ensured by the statutes on the books:

• Protecting your family in emergencies
• Personal safety and self defense
• Preventing and deterring crimes
• Detaining criminals for arrest
• Guarding our national borders
• Preserving our interests abroad
• Helping defend our allies
• Overcoming tyranny
• International trade
• Emergency preparedness
• Commerce and employment
• Historical preservation and study
• Obtaining food by hunting
• Olympic competition
• Collecting
• Sporting pursuits
• Target practice
• Recreational shooting[/i]

***snip***

So I ask again, do you hate guns, and wish they would just go away? You may be suffering from hoplophobia, the morbid fear of weapons. This can be treated -- just like fear of water or bugs or anything else -- but first it must be understood. Denying a phobia is one of the signs that you have it.

Read Dr. Sarah Thompson's careful, researched and clear explanation of what's behind gun fear. You may never want to own a gun -- many people do not -- but you owe it to yourself to understand the subject, and not be simply ruled by your fears.

The Purpose of a Gun Is Not to Kill - Econlib

If the purpose of guns were to kill, cops would not be allowed to have them because, in civilized countries contrary to James Bond movies, they don’t have a license to kill. A tool or instrument, observed Friedrich Hayek, cannot be defined outside of human purposes. For example, the definition...

www.econlib.org

The Purpose of a Gun Is Not to Kill/b]

By: Pierre Lemieux​

An automobile is, to quote Merriam-Webster again, an “automotive vehicle designed for passenger transportation.” People use it to go from point A to point B. Under this general purpose lie many specific ones. For many, A will be mainly their homes and B, their workplaces. Some, no doubt, will use their car to go and commit a bank robbery, and escape afterwards. For terrorists, the space between point A and point B may be any place where there are pedestrians to crush. Collectors and museums may even dispense with the transportation function, although the original purpose remains part of the attraction.

Now, consider a gun. The most general definition of Merriam-Webster is “a device that throws a projectile.” Some individuals may use the projectile-throwing power to kill—a killer-for-hire or a terrorist, for example. But most will use it for another purpose: to assure their own self-defense or to defend others against criminals, or even to protect their property or their customers’ property. Armored truck personnel carry guns as a disincentive to would-be robbers. When they own or carry a gun, some individuals are buying peace of mind, knowing that they have an efficient means of self-defense in case they ever need it. Collectors do not even use a gun to throw a projectile, but instead to showcase it.

The purpose of a gun is not generally to kill. A handgun is designed for self-defense at short distances. Hitting a target farther than 100 feet or even just 50 feet is difficult: by then, the bullet has lost much of its speed and energy, and dropped significantly. Although a handgun may kill or maim an aggressor, its purpose is to stop him, to stop the threat. Hence the discussion of the “stopping power” of caliber (diameter of the bullet) versus velocity.

Criminals use handguns to commit aggressions, as they can use cars to travel where their victims are. But killing is not the (general) purpose of a car, nor is it really that of a handgun. If one is intent on killing, a long gun (rifle or shotgun) is more convenient. In the state where I live (as I suspect in many other states), one may carry a loaded handgun in a car but not a long gun. The reason is that a long gun is not efficient for self-defense, especially in a confined place, while it would be very effective at ambushing somebody (or indiscriminately shooting people).

Even in the case of long guns, it is at misleading to state that the purpose is to kill—at least to kill another human. For many if not most owners of long guns, the purpose is to hunt animals or for protection against four-legged predators such as brown or white bears. Even if many owners of long guns probably think that they could come handy during civil (or government) disturbances, the main purpose would remain to stop the threat, not necessarily to kill the threatening individuals.

Thus, the purpose of guns is not to kill, except in particular, and often criminal, circumstances. The purpose of a gun is to neutralize threats and deter aggressors. Even if we assume that allowing guns results in more murders than banning them (which I don’t think is supported by available evidence), it does not follow that government should ban them, whether abruptly or stealthily. We encounter here the general problem of cost-benefit analysis: What allows us to say that preventing the possible killing of some unknown Mr. and Mrs. X in the future is worth more than prohibiting a known Miss Y from owning or carrying a gun for self-defense hic et nunc?

BECAUSE
IDIOT
Boxing outside the ring is called battery. It is not boxing.
Same with all your other "Proofs"

A firearm can be used many ways ala Three Stooges.
But when a firearm is pointed and the trigger pulled it is being used as intended, to kill.

All you've done is confirm the hypothesis.

 

[Batcat]

BECAUSE
IDIOT
Boxing outside the ring is called battery. It is not boxing.
Same with all your other "Proofs"

A firearm can be used many ways ala Three Stooges.
But when a firearm is pointed and the trigger pulled it is being used as intended, to kill.

All you've done is confirm the hypothesis.

Fighters have been killed while boxing in the ring.

10 Fighters Who Died in The Ring – Tragic Boxing Deaths

Here, we remember 10 fighters who tragically died in the ring or from injuries sustained during their fights throughout boxing history.

www.casino.org

It’s estimated that between 1890 and 2011, 1,604 boxers lost their lives as a direct result of injuries sustained in the ring, with that working out at an average of 13 per year.

But when a firearm is pointed and the trigger pulled it is being used as intended, to kill.

So when I point my target pistol at a bullseye target 25 yards away and pull the trigger I am killing??? You really should look up the definition of the word “kill.”

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

A firearm can be used many ways ala Three Stooges.

You original argument was the purpose of a gun is only to kill as you stated in post #169 where you were asking me why I own more than one gun. Now you say a firearm can be used in many ways. You just destroyed your argument.

What use is more than one?
and since those purposes are only to kill
again
Why more than one?

 

[SavannahMann]

I’m sure you have notice that there are as many opinions as people. Here is mine.

1) Join USCCA or similar. They will provide materials for your study and access to a lawyer if God Forbid you ever have to pull your weapon in self defense.

2) Think about it now. The various scenarios that you can imagine. What standards will you employ. For me. First is presence of a weapon. No weapon for the baddie means no draw for me.

3) Remember that your intention is defensive. Don’t charge towards the sound of gunfire. Especially in public. The cops will almost certainly mistake you for a bad guy and perforate you.

4) Consider your daily routine. An inside the waistband holster is good. Unless you need the firearm while belted into your car seat. Then it is a little tricky to deploy Sam Colt. A shoulder holster is slower to draw from but easier to conceal and accessible while sitting in the car.

5) Find a balance between firepower and conceal capability. I personally usually go with a Ruger SP-101. A five shot revolver loaded with .357 Magnum. Yes I only have five shots. But those five shots are very effective if I can hit the baddie.

6) Never draw on a drawn gun. If he has you at gunpoint. Wait. Do not go for your gun. Wait until his attention is somewhere else and then draw.

7) Do not talk to the police. Get a lawyer. Get a lawyer. Get a fucking lawyer. This is where USCCA comes in handy. Call their 800 number and they’ll send a lawyer to you. Yes. It will take longer. But it will save you a lot of headache later.

8) Practice. Practice carrying until you can do it without touching the piece every few seconds to check it. Do so until you are comfortable with it. Practice drawing the weapon until you can do so with your eyes closed. And practice putting the weapon away.

9) Think. Think about everything now. If you are pulled over by the cops. Do not lean out the window shouting. “I have a gun”. He will shoot you. I personally keep my license behind by drivers license. I hand the cop both. This lets him know I am legally allowed to be armed. And am armed now. Think things through now and avoid the panic later.

There is no perfect gun. Nor a type of gun. Semi auto and revolvers both have strengths and weaknesses. The more you learn the better informed your choice will be. I own both. And have both available for CC. The situation and clothing will often determine the choice of weapon.

Finally. Never assume that everyone around you believes you are a good guy with a gun. They will probably think you are a bad guy with a gun. So do whatever you can to avoid the misunderstanding. Don’t pull it unless you believe you really need it. If the cops are there don’t pull it. Don’t make the mistake of thinking you are a hero. They get dead or tried for their actions. It is to defend you and your family.