I agree with Joe Scarborough

[Salt Jones]

The church is not asking for a special exception to a law, they are telling the US government that they will not obey a regulation that interferes with their right to exercise their religion.

See the difference?



Of course you don't.

They will obey or close schools and hospitals.

No we won't. We'll force your Asshole in Chief to waiver the Church.

Yet the schools and hospitals will have to follow the governments rules, as they should.

 

[California Girl]

You're white. What you think is about as relevant as the thoughts of a wet dog.

I know... I'm an evil white woman. My bad!

I never said you were evil, just white.

You being good or evil is beside the point.

Ohhhh, my bad... my white.

I am neither flabbered nor gasted by this.... fortunately, I am not in the slightest bothered by race - my own or anyone else's. Just how I roll.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Anyone remember the conservative attitude towards the Muslim flight attendant who wanted to wear her head scarf in violaton of company rules - because of her RELIGION?

Or the Muslim cab drivers who refused to transport alcohol, because of their RELIGION?

Oh my oh my did the rightwingers have such different opinions then...

...I wonder why?????

This is why we laugh at you people.

Feel free to explain to me which part of the Constitution requires an employer to accommodate the religion of an employee. While yo are at it feel free to point out where it says a taxi driver can search my baggage and decide not to pick me up based on the contents, unless I am black, in which case he has to pick me up because it would violate my civil rights. After you do all of that, feel free to go back and find out where Rightwinger ever said anything like what you just accused him of.

 

[California Girl]

They will obey or close schools and hospitals.

No we won't. We'll force your Asshole in Chief to waiver the Church.

Yet the schools and hospitals will have to follow the governments rules, as they should.

Only when those rules don't conflict with our religious beliefs.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No one has refuted the basic principle that if you run a business in this country, you do not get to pick and choose which laws you will or will not comply with according to what religious beliefs you happen to have.

It has been refuted at least twice in this thread.

Where? How?

I don't buy it. It's a gross mis-interpretation of freedom of religion to assert that religions don't have to follow laws they don't believe in.

Hosanna-Tabor Evangelical Lutheran Church and School v. EEOC : SCOTUSblog

 

[Salt Jones]

It's very simple. Fire all non-Catholics. Problem solved.

It isn't that simple. We don't discriminate so our hospitals treat any individual, regardless of race, color, creed or sexual orientation. Our schools include non-Catholics, our charities employ and provide services for non-Catholics.

Can an abortion be performed to save the life of the mother at a Catholic hospital, even if the doctors say it's the only way.

 

[California Girl]

It's very simple. Fire all non-Catholics. Problem solved.

It isn't that simple. We don't discriminate so our hospitals treat any individual, regardless of race, color, creed or sexual orientation. Our schools include non-Catholics, our charities employ and provide services for non-Catholics.

Can an abortion be performed to save the life of the mother at a Catholic hospital, even if the doctors say it's the only way.

You'd have to ask a hospital employee. I'm not in charge. Mmmk?

 

[Salt Jones]

No we won't. We'll force your Asshole in Chief to waiver the Church.

Yet the schools and hospitals will have to follow the governments rules, as they should.

Only when those rules don't conflict with our religious beliefs.

So you are for Sharia Law?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Those offended hospitals can follow in these footsteps:

The parent company of Mercy Gilbert Medical Center and Chandler Regional Medical Center has a new name and new governing structure, both reflecting changes to its relationship with the Catholic church.
Dignity Health is the new name for Catholic Healthcare West, which operates more than 25 Catholic hospitals - including Mercy Gilbert and Phoenix's St. Joseph's Hospital and Medical Center - and 15 non-Catholic hospitals; Chandler Regional is among the company's non-Catholic facilities

Owner of Gilbert, Chandler hospitals breaks away from Catholic church - East Valley Tribune: East Valley Local News

Another self appointed genius completely missing the point.

The point is, I don't care about supporters of a organization that gives aid and comfort to child molesters ie the catholic church.

I don't really care about them as an organization either. I happen to be intelligent enough to understand that any interference with rights is an infringement on my rights, which is why I support the ACLU and the NAACP when they fight for rights of the idiots like you who I would prefer to see locked in a cell at the bottom of the ocean.

 

[Salt Jones]

It isn't that simple. We don't discriminate so our hospitals treat any individual, regardless of race, color, creed or sexual orientation. Our schools include non-Catholics, our charities employ and provide services for non-Catholics.

Can an abortion be performed to save the life of the mother at a Catholic hospital, even if the doctors say it's the only way.

You'd have to ask a hospital employee. I'm not in charge. Mmmk?

Ok, let's. From my earlier link:

The structural and branding change comes a little more than a year after the Roman Catholic Diocese of Phoenix stripped St. Joseph's of its official affiliation with the church because of a surgery that ended a woman's pregnancy to save her life.

Bishop Thomas Olmsted called the 2009 procedure an abortion and said St. Joseph's violated ethical and religious directives of the national Conference of Catholic Bishops.
"In the decision to abort, the equal dignity of mother and her baby were not both upheld," Olmsted said in late 2010. "The mother had a disease that needed to be treated. But instead of treating the disease, St. Joseph's medical staff and ethics committee decided that the healthy, 11-week-old baby should be directly killed."

Owner of Gilbert, Chandler hospitals breaks away from Catholic church - East Valley Tribune: East Valley Local News

 

[California Girl]

Yet the schools and hospitals will have to follow the governments rules, as they should.

Only when those rules don't conflict with our religious beliefs.

So you are for Sharia Law?

I would be supporting the Muslim faith if the government interfered with their right to practice their religion. Much as the Muslim leaders in the US have voiced their support of the Catholic Church in this one. We religious types may not agree with each other, but we recognize an attack on one as an attack on us all.

 

[francoHFW]

They DO have a waiver, for a year....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[MarcATL]

I don't like the administration's stand on this. The issue is of course American tax dollars as the wedge. Bad decision by the government. This is what happens when state and church get involved. IMO, this is a case where the rights of the church supersede that of the state.

Let's also be real clear about the 'tax dollars' on this. In healthcare, for example, yes, the Church takes medicare and medicaid. But, it also meets a huge chunk of those costs itself - me, and my fellow Catholics, fund it. We contribute $5.7 billion dollars of our own money to our hospitals - who treat anyone - and our hospitals are often in the most deprived communities in the country. Without us, the US taxpayer would be funding that $5.7 billion.

And... that's just our hospitals.... you add up the billions that we put into social care, the billions into schools, and the billions into a bunch of other stuff... pretty soon, you're looking at a lot of money.

Do Americans really want the Church to walk away from those services? And take our money with us? Huh? Do ya? It's very simple math.... either we pay for it, or the taxpayer does. We're happy to pay for it... it's our Christian duty... but.... the price of that is that the country has to defend our First Amendment Right to practice our religion - including our Christian duty to care for our fellow man.

Aha....!!! So you're a Catholic. That makes sense. That makes a lot of sense.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The idiot California Girl claims that non-profit businesses don't have to comply with business/labor law because they're not actually businesses. I know, it's retarded, but take it up with her.

Actually, the idiot Supreme Court of the United States declares that, unanimously. That includes two justices appointed by Obama.

Hosanna-Tabor Evangelical Lutheran Church and School v. EEOC : SCOTUSblog

That case is not relevant because the Church itself is already exempted from this healthcare requirement.
Once again someone unintentionally reinforces my point.

You just reinforced your stupidity by not actually reading my link.

The Roberts opinion dismissed as an “extreme position” the plea of EEOC to limit any “ministerial exception” solely to workers who perform “exclusively religious functions.” While the opinion said the Court was “reluctant to adopt a rigid formula for deciding when an employee qualifies as a minister,” the opinion went on to describe some key factors that courts are to take into account in judging whether a given denomination has proved its claim to the exception.
In this particular case, involving a parochial school teacher in Redford, Mich., who spent most of her work time on non-religious duties, the Court found these to be decisive factors: that she was formally commissioned or ordained as a “minister” in the Lutheran denomination’s internal practices, that she did perform “important religious functions” in addition to her teaching of lay subjects in the classroom, and that her non-religious duties, however extensive, did not make a difference. The Chief Justice said the Court was unsure whether any church employee would ever do exclusively religious chores.

 

[rdean]

Joe was "read" this morning when he was told the church is exempt and always has been. He said all wide eyed, "But I didn't know that". Hospitals that receive government funding aren't exempt. And that this same policy has existed in 28 states for years with 8 states mandating that even the church has to pay.

This is all about Obama.

 

[Salt Jones]

Another self appointed genius completely missing the point.

The point is, I don't care about supporters of a organization that gives aid and comfort to child molesters ie the catholic church.

I don't really care about them as an organization either. I happen to be intelligent enough to understand that any interference with rights is an infringement on my rights, which is why I support the ACLU and the NAACP when they fight for rights of the idiots like you who I would prefer to see locked in a cell at the bottom of the ocean.

Yet here I sit, typing away.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Asking for a special exemption from a certain part of a law that will be your special privilege based on your special status

is by definition a 'special favor'.

The church is not asking for a special exception to a law, they are telling the US government that they will not obey a regulation that interferes with their right to exercise their religion.

See the difference?

Of course you don't.

That doesn't hold up. You realize all the counter arguments that leads you into, right? For example, if a religion claims, as a doctrine of faith, their right kill their wayward children - would it be a violation of their religious freedom to hold them to their state's murder laws?

You seem to think that because the government has a duty to protect lives even against religions that believe in human sacrifice that it means the government can make up any w=law it wants and dictate to religion about what it can, and cannot, do. Tain't anywhere near that simple.

 

[California Girl]

Joe was "read" this morning when he was told the church is exempt and always has been. He said all wide eyed, "But I didn't know that". Hospitals that receive government funding aren't exempt. And that this same policy has existed in 28 states for years with 8 states mandating that even the church has to pay.

This is all about Obama.

Oh, right... so is it because Catholics 'hate' him because he's black? Or because he's liberal? And does that include the 54% (I know how much you looooove statistics - And I do apologize that this one is actually accurate) of Catholics that voted for Obama?

You're an idiot.

 

[dblack]

It has been refuted at least twice in this thread.

Where? How?

I don't buy it. It's a gross mis-interpretation of freedom of religion to assert that religions don't have to follow laws they don't believe in.

Hosanna-Tabor Evangelical Lutheran Church and School v. EEOC : SCOTUSblog

There are all kinds of court decisions I don't agree with. I don't really have time to examine that one in detail, but if follows the same general principles as this case, I'd probably disagree with it as well.

To be clear, I think you know how vehemently opposed to this requirement I am, but I think it's patently unfair that some people should get a pass on it just because they follow a certain religion. In principle, why can't I start my own religion that believes insurance is the work of the devil, and get out of these mandates altogether?

 

[California Girl]

The point is, I don't care about supporters of a organization that gives aid and comfort to child molesters ie the catholic church.

I don't really care about them as an organization either. I happen to be intelligent enough to understand that any interference with rights is an infringement on my rights, which is why I support the ACLU and the NAACP when they fight for rights of the idiots like you who I would prefer to see locked in a cell at the bottom of the ocean.

Yet here I sit, typing away.

Yes, you do. And we support your right to post whatever racist bullshit you want.