Hyper Partisans

[Cold Fusion38]

I've tried this kind of post before but I don't know if I have on this board.............What if we stopped listening to the rhetoric of the HYPER-PARTISANS on BOTH parties? They make up 10-20% MAXIMUM of each party yet they tend to drive policy FAR more than their numbers should dictate so WHY are the open minded moderates from both parties letting this VERY vocal minority drive their policy decisions?


I would really like REAL WORLD sensible ideas from the 60-80% of us who put AMERICA first before ANY kind of radical agenda whether right OR left. I would like to be able to come to some well thought out COMPROMISES here that we may be able to present to our Reps in congress...........PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do NOT let this be yet ANOTHER thread to bash each other...I don't think we need one MORE of those type of threads....I think we have FAR more in common as AMERICANS then we do differences based on political ideaology. ONCE AGAIN WE ARE ALL AMERICANS!!


Whether we agree or disagree we ARE ALL first and foremost AMERICANS and I beleive we ALL want what is best for our great country.



I will be the FIRST to admit that I have some pretty HARD LEFT ideas but this is NOT the forum for those views or HARD RIGHT to lead to ARGUMENT and end up without us finding COMMON GROUND.........I beleive 100% that if we TRIED we could ALL find at least one idea that we could share with people from the other side of the debate.


As always I will go first. Though many of you think I am hard Liberal I share some very basic Conservative values. I defend our 2nd ammendment rights, (well all of our rights really) I am VERY vocal about defense of our boarders and making it too great a risk for companies to employ illegal aliens, and I am PRO nuclear power as the ONLY current non fossil fuel energy source that we currently have available. That being said I also think we can and SHOULD persure alt energy. It may only be 10% or 1% today but if we put our greatest minds to it I think we could vastly improve upon that.



So let's try as AMERICANS to find the compromises and solutions to keep our country great.

 

[Yurt]

fiscal conservative, social liberal, mostly how i see it for me and my family

gay marriage - i don't understand how a small government conservative rationalizes telling someone what they can and can't do in their bedroom or denying homosexuals the right to marriage...homosexual sex is legal, thus, marriage should be

taxex - people need help at times, but taxing the wealthy to the point of absurdity does not help the economy, it is a fact the rich create jobs...just look in your town, besides the goverment, at who is employing....why people want to tax that and so called give it back to the workers is beyond me....how about you work for it and then get it back....this reliance on the government is atrocious.....our government was not founded on these principles

abortion - a can of worms. there probably is not a middle ground, you can argue the trimester arguments, but that will never persuade someone who believes life begins as conception

world police - i'm up in the air personally. but for most, they will support the actions based on the political affilitiation of the president and their own, i don't think there is any changing that unless you silence all political hacks

bailouts - no way, no how. the government doesn't bailout main street....

stimulus - it could work if for a specific time, specific purpose. currently, it is crap, not even half has been spent and the dems are already looking at taking the money coming back from tarp.

yurt - seriously, for world president, dude

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Hey GREAT post! Cover a few pretty good issues and presented your position pretty concisely....Thank you for joining this thread.


My prob with taxes is we have give tax breaks since "Reaganomics" and I don't think it has made jobs HERE but overseas. IF we are going to give big business and the Ultra-rich then they should be based SOLEY on jobs made in AMERICA and nowhere else.



As for abortion you may find it odd but I actually respect people who are against abortion with NO exceptions because if it IS a baby from conception then why does the means of conception matter......Rape still a baby.....Incest still a baby.....Health of the mother killing one to MAYBE save the other still killing a baby.
World police I am an isolationist. Keep our troops at home, secure our boarders like we REALLY don't want anyone to cross illegaly, and increase funding for port security and the Coast Guard. The CG is tasked with patroling THOUSANDS of miles of water ways and they're fleet is in a shambles out dated and too few ships to do the job.
Gay marriage I basically agree but I don't think gov't has any business in marriage in the first place.
Bailouts have kept many more banks from going under esp the HUGE banks who employ a LOT of people.
Stimulus....I think they could have fast tracked MANY more projects. The argument was that most were not "shovel ready" so fast track them and get the projects DONE. I think many could have been to make gov't buildings more energy efficient and that money goes from the construction workers to waitresses, retail, services, and many OTHER jobs. Some talk like the money EVAPORATES but it doesn't it gets into EVERY sector of business.


Yurt sounds like a VP to me. Fusion/Yurt sounds better.

 

[Toro]

"Pragmatic libertarian empiricist."

Sounds dumb, I know.

Basically, I don't believe in ideology but I do believe in principles. Ideology is a trap. Principles are a belief set. Ideology forces people to think within a box. Principles are a road map. Empiricism is a quest for understanding how the world is, not what it should be. The empiricist changes his beliefs in light of contrary evidence. The ideologue retains his beliefs despite contrary evidence.

I am generally conservative on economic issues and somewhat liberal on social issues. However, conservative means being fiscally responsible, not just cutting taxes. The market creates the most wealth for most people, most of the time. But it does not create all the wealth for all the people all of the time.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

"Pragmatic libertarian empiricist."

Sounds dumb, I know.

Basically, I don't believe in ideology but I do believe in principles. Ideology is a trap. Principles are a belief set. Ideology forces people to think within a box. Principles are a road map. Empiricism is a quest for understanding how the world is, not what it should be. The empiricist changes his beliefs in light of contrary evidence. The ideologue retains his beliefs despite contrary evidence.

I am generally conservative on economic issues and somewhat liberal on social issues. However, conservative means being fiscally responsible, not just cutting taxes. The market creates the most wealth for most people, most of the time. But it does not create all the wealth for all the people all of the time.

Another GREAT post. Your position makes a lot of sense thank you for the post.

 

[Ringel05]

"Pragmatic libertarian empiricist."

Sounds dumb, I know.

Basically, I don't believe in ideology but I do believe in principles. Ideology is a trap. Principles are a belief set. Ideology forces people to think within a box. Principles are a road map. Empiricism is a quest for understanding how the world is, not what it should be. The empiricist changes his beliefs in light of contrary evidence. The ideologue retains his beliefs despite contrary evidence.

I am generally conservative on economic issues and somewhat liberal on social issues. However, conservative means being fiscally responsible, not just cutting taxes. The market creates the most wealth for most people, most of the time. But it does not create all the wealth for all the people all of the time.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Toro again.
Next time.

 

[Yurt]

"Pragmatic libertarian empiricist."

Sounds dumb, I know.

Basically, I don't believe in ideology but I do believe in principles. Ideology is a trap. Principles are a belief set. Ideology forces people to think within a box. Principles are a road map. Empiricism is a quest for understanding how the world is, not what it should be. The empiricist changes his beliefs in light of contrary evidence. The ideologue retains his beliefs despite contrary evidence.

I am generally conservative on economic issues and somewhat liberal on social issues. However, conservative means being fiscally responsible, not just cutting taxes. The market creates the most wealth for most people, most of the time. But it does not create all the wealth for all the people all of the time.

 

[Annie]

For the most part, I'm 'conservative', though not necessarily as much so as some think. Partisan? Somewhat, again not so much as some try to portray. I've little use for Palin as a presidential candidate, but that was true of McCain also. Sometimes you go with what you get, he was better than Obama, but not good enough to win.

Gay marriage: I think it should be left to the states. My own opinion, let them have their rights through legal means, short of marriage. Government in the bedroom? No thanks.

Taxes: Federally I think we're way over taxed and it's the result of the power grab by the fed. Interstate, Air control, Military, Financial regulations, other than that, get out of our lives. Schools? Energy? No! The states even more than the fed need to get finances under control. Stop taxing and spending. They are killing business and bankrupting people. How about stop the bailouts! What's with one buying a house for $400k; it falls in value to $200. The owner sells for $190 and the bank 'forgives' the balance, thanks to the rest of us? Multiply by thousands/millions? WTF! Then there's the banks and auto mftg. Again, how is that 'the taxpayers' problem? The jobs were lost, yet we bail them out? No, wrong. Pisses me off.

Abortion: While it's now legal through bad law, like gay rights I think it should be through the states. I know that's a losing position.

War: Only what is in our, meaning US interests. Yes, to me that encompassed both Afghanistan and Iraq. For too long the war in Iraq was waged incorrectly, since the fall of Sadam, but once the surge happened, it went the way intended. Afghanistan? I'm backing Obama on the surge, though quite unsure that it will work as it did with the more urban Iraq. It's still worth a try, especially if we can find Osama-dead or alive. (I've heard that before.)

Second amendment: While I don't own a gun, I think everyone should be able to. Great deterrent. The current video of the older lady shooting the high guy trying to get to her phone or worse, case in point.

What I'd like to see more of is polite disagreement. Not calling other's ideas idiotic and worse. Not attributing bad qualities on the poster, just because of philosophical disagreements. Too much to ask, I know.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

For the most part, I'm 'conservative', though not necessarily as much so as some think. Partisan? Somewhat, again not so much as some try to portray. I've little use for Palin as a presidential candidate, but that was true of McCain also. Sometimes you go with what you get, he was better than Obama, but not good enough to win.

Gay marriage: I think it should be left to the states. My own opinion, let them have their rights through legal means, short of marriage. Government in the bedroom? No thanks.

Taxes: Federally I think we're way over taxed and it's the result of the power grab by the fed. Interstate, Air control, Military, Financial regulations, other than that, get out of our lives. Schools? Energy? No! The states even more than the fed need to get finances under control. Stop taxing and spending. They are killing business and bankrupting people. How about stop the bailouts! What's with one buying a house for $400k; it falls in value to $200. The owner sells for $190 and the bank 'forgives' the balance, thanks to the rest of us? Multiply by thousands/millions? WTF! Then there's the banks and auto mftg. Again, how is that 'the taxpayers' problem? The jobs were lost, yet we bail them out? No, wrong. Pisses me off.

Abortion: While it's now legal through bad law, like gay rights I think it should be through the states. I know that's a losing position.

War: Only what is in our, meaning US interests. Yes, to me that encompassed both Afghanistan and Iraq. For too long the war in Iraq was waged incorrectly, since the fall of Sadam, but once the surge happened, it went the way intended. Afghanistan? I'm backing Obama on the surge, though quite unsure that it will work as it did with the more urban Iraq. It's still worth a try, especially if we can find Obama-dead or alive. (I've heard that before.)

Second amendment: While I don't own a gun, I think everyone should be able to. Great deterrent. The current video of the older lady shooting the high guy trying to get to her phone or worse, case in point.

What I'd like to see more of is polite disagreement. Not calling other's ideas idiotic and worse. Not attributing bad qualities on the poster, just because of philosophical disagreements. Too much to ask, I know.

Well minus the Obama "joke" this was a fair enough post.

 

[Annie]

For the most part, I'm 'conservative', though not necessarily as much so as some think. Partisan? Somewhat, again not so much as some try to portray. I've little use for Palin as a presidential candidate, but that was true of McCain also. Sometimes you go with what you get, he was better than Obama, but not good enough to win.

Gay marriage: I think it should be left to the states. My own opinion, let them have their rights through legal means, short of marriage. Government in the bedroom? No thanks.

Taxes: Federally I think we're way over taxed and it's the result of the power grab by the fed. Interstate, Air control, Military, Financial regulations, other than that, get out of our lives. Schools? Energy? No! The states even more than the fed need to get finances under control. Stop taxing and spending. They are killing business and bankrupting people. How about stop the bailouts! What's with one buying a house for $400k; it falls in value to $200. The owner sells for $190 and the bank 'forgives' the balance, thanks to the rest of us? Multiply by thousands/millions? WTF! Then there's the banks and auto mftg. Again, how is that 'the taxpayers' problem? The jobs were lost, yet we bail them out? No, wrong. Pisses me off.

Abortion: While it's now legal through bad law, like gay rights I think it should be through the states. I know that's a losing position.

War: Only what is in our, meaning US interests. Yes, to me that encompassed both Afghanistan and Iraq. For too long the war in Iraq was waged incorrectly, since the fall of Sadam, but once the surge happened, it went the way intended. Afghanistan? I'm backing Obama on the surge, though quite unsure that it will work as it did with the more urban Iraq. It's still worth a try, especially if we can find Osama-dead or alive. (I've heard that before.)

Second amendment: While I don't own a gun, I think everyone should be able to. Great deterrent. The current video of the older lady shooting the high guy trying to get to her phone or worse, case in point.

What I'd like to see more of is polite disagreement. Not calling other's ideas idiotic and worse. Not attributing bad qualities on the poster, just because of philosophical disagreements. Too much to ask, I know.

Well minus the Obama "joke" this was a fair enough post.

That really was a typo. Going to correct it now.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

I beleive 100% that if we TRIED we could ALL find at least one idea that we could share with people from the other side of the debate.

I beleive we ALL want what is best for our great country.

ColdFusion: Take some time to read and study the federalist papers if you're really looking for non-partisan ideas.

Federalist Papers

And remember what they taught us in the first grade: I before E except after C -- in that lesson, we learn how to spell "believe."

 

[PixieStix]

Hyper Partisans?

a simple thought terminating cliche', a term to stop debate, and silence opposition.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Hyper Partisans?

a simple thought terminating cliche', a term to stop debate, and silence opposition.

Yes, the irony is towering.

 

[PixieStix]

Hyper Partisans?

a simple thought terminating cliche', a term to stop debate, and silence opposition.

Yes, the irony is towering.

It really is amazing how those thought terminating cliche's can and do blind the very one that is pointing fingers

 

[rightwinger]

What I'd like to see more of is polite disagreement. Not calling other's ideas idiotic and worse. Not attributing bad qualities on the poster, just because of philosophical disagreements. Too much to ask, I know.

This board is more about talking smack than talking facts logically and respectfully

 

[Annie]

I beleive 100% that if we TRIED we could ALL find at least one idea that we could share with people from the other side of the debate.

I beleive we ALL want what is best for our great country.

ColdFusion: Take some time to read and study the federalist papers if you're really looking for non-partisan ideas.

Federalist Papers

And remember what they taught us in the first grade: I before E except after C -- in that lesson, we learn how to spell "believe."

Shoot watched "Polar Express" twice today. "Believe" plays a big role in that too!

 

[Midnight Marauder]

I beleive 100% that if we TRIED we could ALL find at least one idea that we could share with people from the other side of the debate.

I beleive we ALL want what is best for our great country.

ColdFusion: Take some time to read and study the federalist papers if you're really looking for non-partisan ideas.

Federalist Papers

And remember what they taught us in the first grade: I before E except after C -- in that lesson, we learn how to spell "believe."

Shoot watched "Polar Express" twice today. "Believe" plays a big role in that too!

But, I was actually trying to be helpful!

 

[Midnight Marauder]

I've tried this kind of post before but I don't know if I have on this board.............What if we stopped listening to the rhetoric of the HYPER-PARTISANS on BOTH parties? They make up 10-20% MAXIMUM of each party yet they tend to drive policy FAR more than their numbers should dictate so WHY are the open minded moderates from both parties letting this VERY vocal minority drive their policy decisions?


I would really like REAL WORLD sensible ideas from the 60-80% of us who put AMERICA first before ANY kind of radical agenda whether right OR left. I would like to be able to come to some well thought out COMPROMISES here that we may be able to present to our Reps in congress...........PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do NOT let this be yet ANOTHER thread to bash each other...I don't think we need one MORE of those type of threads....I think we have FAR more in common as AMERICANS then we do differences based on political ideaology. ONCE AGAIN WE ARE ALL AMERICANS!!


Whether we agree or disagree we ARE ALL first and foremost AMERICANS and I beleive we ALL want what is best for our great country.



I will be the FIRST to admit that I have some pretty HARD LEFT ideas but this is NOT the forum for those views or HARD RIGHT to lead to ARGUMENT and end up without us finding COMMON GROUND.........I beleive 100% that if we TRIED we could ALL find at least one idea that we could share with people from the other side of the debate.


As always I will go first. Though many of you think I am hard Liberal I share some very basic Conservative values. I defend our 2nd ammendment rights, (well all of our rights really) I am VERY vocal about defense of our boarders and making it too great a risk for companies to employ illegal aliens, and I am PRO nuclear power as the ONLY current non fossil fuel energy source that we currently have available. That being said I also think we can and SHOULD persure alt energy. It may only be 10% or 1% today but if we put our greatest minds to it I think we could vastly improve upon that.



So let's try as AMERICANS to find the compromises and solutions to keep our country great.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

I've tried this kind of post before but I don't know if I have on this board...

You have. It was your infamous: Click---> http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/92349-please-be-positive-nature-to-this-thread.html

I will start. Despite the fact that I lean left I STRONGLY agree with our RIGHT to bare rights.

 

[MaggieMae]

I've tried this kind of post before but I don't know if I have on this board.............What if we stopped listening to the rhetoric of the HYPER-PARTISANS on BOTH parties? They make up 10-20% MAXIMUM of each party yet they tend to drive policy FAR more than their numbers should dictate so WHY are the open minded moderates from both parties letting this VERY vocal minority drive their policy decisions?


I would really like REAL WORLD sensible ideas from the 60-80% of us who put AMERICA first before ANY kind of radical agenda whether right OR left. I would like to be able to come to some well thought out COMPROMISES here that we may be able to present to our Reps in congress...........PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do NOT let this be yet ANOTHER thread to bash each other...I don't think we need one MORE of those type of threads....I think we have FAR more in common as AMERICANS then we do differences based on political ideaology. ONCE AGAIN WE ARE ALL AMERICANS!!


Whether we agree or disagree we ARE ALL first and foremost AMERICANS and I beleive we ALL want what is best for our great country.



I will be the FIRST to admit that I have some pretty HARD LEFT ideas but this is NOT the forum for those views or HARD RIGHT to lead to ARGUMENT and end up without us finding COMMON GROUND.........I beleive 100% that if we TRIED we could ALL find at least one idea that we could share with people from the other side of the debate.


As always I will go first. Though many of you think I am hard Liberal I share some very basic Conservative values. I defend our 2nd ammendment rights, (well all of our rights really) I am VERY vocal about defense of our boarders and making it too great a risk for companies to employ illegal aliens, and I am PRO nuclear power as the ONLY current non fossil fuel energy source that we currently have available. That being said I also think we can and SHOULD persure alt energy. It may only be 10% or 1% today but if we put our greatest minds to it I think we could vastly improve upon that.



So let's try as AMERICANS to find the compromises and solutions to keep our country great.

I'm not sure you'll find that kind of cooperation here, or any message board for that matter. They're more for people to vent on the issues. If I want a serious discussion on an issue (online), sans all the insults and wild assertions, I'll start reading the pages at TalkingPointsMemo.com which is a newsletter that includes a cafe resembling a message board.

But I'll check back tomorrow to see how you're doing! It's a noble effort in any event!