How tough do you think Anericans are?

[harmonica]

Most countries are tougher than the United States, we are soft, both literally (fat), and figuratively, in ground combat.

Our advantage has always been technology and the highest volume of firepower, but that did shit in the jungles of Vietnam, and has done squat in Afghanistan. In terms of one to one, other less advanced countries have a toughness advantage, because it is bred into them. Not everyone in those countries relies on their smartphone, their social media, their central air and furnace, etc, etc. etc., so yea, of course they will be tougher. But can they saturate the ground with high explosives like this country can? Probably not, considering so much of our 20 trillion dollars a year GDP gets wasted on the latest whiz bang, high tech weaponry.

.....I've been all over Europe and South America--I've trained with MANY countries' military...and many are NOT as good as us ...
..I've trained with the French Foreign Legion, Italians, Spanish, Venezuelans --all over South America....etc etc

Yea, I get it, and that's what sets the U.S. military apart from the rest of the world: training. Our training is the best, but I'm not talking spec. ops., I'm not even talking your average 11B, I'm talking about the toughness that comes from working outside in the bitter cold Russian steppe, or knowing from a young age on how to survive off the land and move thru the forests and jungles on other continents. Americans are, by and large, urbanized. We are something like 5% of the worlds population and consume 25% of its resources.

Of course, their militaries can't match ours, their training can't match ours, but in terms of toughness? I think they match up very favorably against Americans in that respect.

maybe in an extreme cold climate --maybe....but not other climates....
..and it's a system that counts--air/ground/etc combined arms...and the air has it's own system-AWACS/fighters/Weasals/etc....logistics...etc ....and the ground units have a system--arty/logistics/combat troops/etc .
..and then the ground and air work together
..so there is much more to it than being ''weak''/strong/etc

 

[Andylusion]

If the Russians ever understand just how morally weak we are we are screwed.

I think they found that out on November 8, 2016.

Yeah, even running someone as immoral and corrupt as Hillary, surely damaged our reputation.

 

[longly]

My opinion on the current generation is that I think they are weak but it is not their fault. The degeneration of the US culture goes back to at least the Vietnam War. We started losing our grit in Vietnam and it only has gotten worse since then. We were defeated and humiliated by a fourth-rate military power to point we were cowed by the communist and did not resist them for the rest of the seventies with the coward Jimmy Carter being the greatest example of that period.

It took Ronald Reagan to turn things around; he could nothing about the culture, but he did resist the communist against considerable liberal opposition. Reagan used the Afghan mujahideen to fight the Russians in Afghanistan and other US presidents used our professional military to fight our little wars against terrorists. We have most likely the best military in the world; the problem is that they are not that big. If we get into a war with the Russians in the artic, we will lose. The only hope would be a fast decisive victory by our professional army. If it turns out to be a war of attrition we will lose. We have perhaps 250,000 front line trumps; we outnumber the Russian population by two to one, but they could put perhaps five times more combats troops in the field. The Russians have both a professional and a draftee army. Their people will submit to the draft, but ours won’t. We have a small army and no replacements. We would lose a war of attrition with the Russians. I love my grandchildren with all my heart, but to send them off to war would be nothing short of murder. If the Russians ever understand just how morally weak we are we are screwed.

The only point I agree with you on is that as a Nation we are morally weak. "WE" were most certainly neither defeated nor humiliated in Vietnam and the grit we displayed there drew a surprising amount of admiration from our enemies.
Wars may be started by nations but are fought by a small portion of that nation known as military which may include militia. In Vietnam the average soldier displayed far more grit and will than was asked or expected and we withdrew with honor and reputation intact. The problems we had in Vietnam were a direct result of morally weak civilians and the weak willed and dishonorable civilians they elected to run that war.
"WE" were cowed by no one. I resent your use of "WE". Rather than being a "loss" our war in Vietnam contributed to our win of the far more important Cold War.
An army by no means needs to be big to win. In Vietnam we were at all times greatly outnumbered by our enemies but we almost always won our battles. Our current military could take out all of Alexander the Great's entire fabled army before lunch and with few if any casualties.
In 1968 I received my draft notice then enlisted in an effort to receive my preferred training so I'm not sure if I would be considered a draftee or a volunteer. What I am sure of is that the draft is a type of slavery and slaves often make poor warriors.
"No state has an inherent right to survive through conscript troops and in the long run no state ever has. Roman matrons used to say to their sons: "Come back with your shield, or on it." Later on, this custom declined. So did Rome."

Excerpt from the notebooks of Lazarus Long, from Robert Heinlein's "Time Enough for Love"

“"WE" were most certainly neither defeated nor humiliated in Vietnam and the grit we displayed there drew a surprising amount of admiration from our enemies. “



(We didn’t depart Vietnam in a very dignified manner.)



“Wars may be started by nations but are fought by a small portion of that nation known as military which may include militia. In Vietnam the average soldier displayed far more grit and will than was asked or expected and we withdrew with honor and reputation intact. The problems we had in Vietnam were a direct result of morally weak civilians and the weak willed and dishonorable civilians they elected to run that war.”



(I was referring to the congress and the demoralized US civilian population. Our soldiers in Vietnam did well; of course, we had people like Kerry but he was an aberration.)

" (We didn’t depart Vietnam in a very dignified manner.) "
Bullshit. I left in a very dignified jet airliner in a nice cushy seat politely flirting with a stewardess. Maybe you were thinking of the French.

Did you leave Saigon the day it fell? We deserted Vietnamese alliest to the tender mercies of communists who, when no one was watching, killed them. I don’t think that was very dignified. Communists promised peace, but as communists always do, they lied.

 

[Missourian]

Most countries are tougher than the United States, we are soft, both literally (fat), and figuratively, in ground combat.

Our advantage has always been technology and the highest volume of firepower, but that did shit in the jungles of Vietnam, and has done squat in Afghanistan. In terms of one to one, other less advanced countries have a toughness advantage, because it is bred into them. Not everyone in those countries relies on their smartphone, their social media, their central air and furnace, etc, etc. etc., so yea, of course they will be tougher. But can they saturate the ground with high explosives like this country can? Probably not, considering so much of our 20 trillion dollars a year GDP gets wasted on the latest whiz bang, high tech weaponry.

.....I've been all over Europe and South America--I've trained with MANY countries' military...and many are NOT as good as us ...
..I've trained with the French Foreign Legion, Italians, Spanish, Venezuelans --all over South America....etc etc

Yea, I get it, and that's what sets the U.S. military apart from the rest of the world: training. Our training is the best, but I'm not talking spec. ops., I'm not even talking your average 11B, I'm talking about the toughness that comes from working outside in the bitter cold Russian steppe, or knowing from a young age on how to survive off the land and move thru the forests and jungles on other continents. Americans are, by and large, urbanized. We are something like 5% of the worlds population and consume 25% of its resources.

Of course, their militaries can't match ours, their training can't match ours, but in terms of toughness? I think they match up very favorably against Americans in that respect.

I think you're right about the cities...but the cities aren't all the US.

 

[Quasar44]

My opinion on the current generation is that I think they are weak but it is not their fault. The degeneration of the US culture goes back to at least the Vietnam War. We started losing our grit in Vietnam and it only has gotten worse since then. We were defeated and humiliated by a fourth-rate military power to point we were cowed by the communist and did not resist them for the rest of the seventies with the coward Jimmy Carter being the greatest example of that period.

It took Ronald Reagan to turn things around; he could nothing about the culture, but he did resist the communist against considerable liberal opposition. Reagan used the Afghan mujahideen to fight the Russians in Afghanistan and other US presidents used our professional military to fight our little wars against terrorists. We have most likely the best military in the world; the problem is that they are not that big. If we get into a war with the Russians in the artic, we will lose. The only hope would be a fast decisive victory by our professional army. If it turns out to be a war of attrition we will lose. We have perhaps 250,000 front line trumps; we outnumber the Russian population by two to one, but they could put perhaps five times more combats troops in the field. The Russians have both a professional and a draftee army. Their people will submit to the draft, but ours won’t. We have a small army and no replacements. We would lose a war of attrition with the Russians. I love my grandchildren with all my heart, but to send them off to war would be nothing short of murder. If the Russians ever understand just how morally weak we are we are screwed.

in the 50s..75 percent of males were tough!!!
In 2020 - I say about 25 prevent

Sorry being a scrawny emo boy means you’re a weakling

 

[Quasar44]

NYC you have tough Italians , Puerto Rican and Blacks

Rest of NYC.- bunch of snowflakes in the Arizona heat

 

[Oz and the Orchestra]

My opinion on the current generation is that I think they are weak but it is not their fault. The degeneration of the US culture goes back to at least the Vietnam War. We started losing our grit in Vietnam and it only has gotten worse since then. We were defeated and humiliated by a fourth-rate military power to point we were cowed by the communist and did not resist them for the rest of the seventies with the coward Jimmy Carter being the greatest example of that period.

It took Ronald Reagan to turn things around; he could nothing about the culture, but he did resist the communist against considerable liberal opposition. Reagan used the Afghan mujahideen to fight the Russians in Afghanistan and other US presidents used our professional military to fight our little wars against terrorists. We have most likely the best military in the world; the problem is that they are not that big. If we get into a war with the Russians in the artic, we will lose. The only hope would be a fast decisive victory by our professional army. If it turns out to be a war of attrition we will lose. We have perhaps 250,000 front line trumps; we outnumber the Russian population by two to one, but they could put perhaps five times more combats troops in the field. The Russians have both a professional and a draftee army. Their people will submit to the draft, but ours won’t. We have a small army and no replacements. We would lose a war of attrition with the Russians. I love my grandchildren with all my heart, but to send them off to war would be nothing short of murder. If the Russians ever understand just how morally weak we are we are screwed.

The American Fighting Soldier is a bit of a joke around the world mainly because he is not properly trained, partly because
the military don't research the enemy so they keep getting caught out. Partly because your politicians are too scared of public opinion at home and because your troops never seem quite sure if they can be asked to see things through to the bitter end. (First Gulf War). More British troops were killed by the Americans than by the enemy (friendly fire) in that war.
In the second Gulf War, the coalition won the war but then you lost the peace. The 'battle for hearts and minds' - what a laugh! You didn't seem to know that when a country is taken over the victors are responsible for Law & Order etc, You dismissed the institutions that ran the country because they were Ba'athist Party members leaving no infrastructure, with the result religious factions began tearing you and each other apart. With the result the minority Sunni's felt so isolated they went off and formed Isis.

Your troops would take snarling dogs into houses not knowing that it against Muslim culture to have dogs in their house. And what the **** was going on in Abu Grabe? - A ******* disgrace that's what.

As for Reagan training and arming the Mujahideen and one Osama Bin Laden. When you then refused to back him in Saudi Arabia he turned on you and after several attacks in the middle east came 9/11. Reagan's chickens certainly came home to roost!
You failed in Korea. Where beaten by a bunch of impoverished paddy farmers in Vietnam. You invaded Grenada, not even knowing it is a British protectorate. You sent helicopters to free hostages in Tehran that crashed unable to function in the sand - what the **** did you expect to find in Iran ******* ice. - You are absolutely ******* hopeless! Then of course there was 'Black Hawk Down' in Somalia - another ******* disaster.

We on the other hand had to sail all the way down to the south Atlantic to liberate the Falklands After Argentina invaded.
Took us a few weeks.

You waited until WW1 was practically over before joining us. And till Hitler was on the back foot after the 'Battle of Britain' & 'Stalingrad' before entering WW11. As for Japan it wasn't The Atomic Bombs that won that, It was because the USSR had declared war on them. Routed them in Manchuria and within two weeks reached the coast ready to invade. While you wined about how many men you might lose (the Russians weren't bothered how many they lost) You let it be known that the Japs could keep their Emperor. The Japs of course knew that not only would their Emperor be gone but also their entire way of life once the Russians invaded.

No sorry gents but when it comes to foreign wars the USA's Politicians, Military and Soldiers are the feeble faggots of the operations room and battlefield.

 

[Unkotare]

My opinion on the current generation is that I think they are weak but it is not their fault. The degeneration of the US culture goes back to at least the Vietnam War. We started losing our grit in Vietnam and it only has gotten worse since then. We were defeated and humiliated by a fourth-rate military power to point we were cowed by the communist and did not resist them for the rest of the seventies with the coward Jimmy Carter being the greatest example of that period.

It took Ronald Reagan to turn things around; he could nothing about the culture, but he did resist the communist against considerable liberal opposition. Reagan used the Afghan mujahideen to fight the Russians in Afghanistan and other US presidents used our professional military to fight our little wars against terrorists. We have most likely the best military in the world; the problem is that they are not that big. If we get into a war with the Russians in the artic, we will lose. The only hope would be a fast decisive victory by our professional army. If it turns out to be a war of attrition we will lose. We have perhaps 250,000 front line trumps; we outnumber the Russian population by two to one, but they could put perhaps five times more combats troops in the field. The Russians have both a professional and a draftee army. Their people will submit to the draft, but ours won’t. We have a small army and no replacements. We would lose a war of attrition with the Russians. I love my grandchildren with all my heart, but to send them off to war would be nothing short of murder. If the Russians ever understand just how morally weak we are we are screwed.

What a load of anti-American garbage. This ^^^^^ sounds like something written by some kid who read bullet-points in a lefty history book. America did not lose even one major military engagement during the Vietnam War. It was a political war 'lost' by the absence of political will. The US military was not "defeated" by any reasonable measure.

President Reagan DID change "the culture." Anyone who was alive and aware at that time would know this.

Russia is the country that could not sustain a war of attrition. Their military is outdated, demoralized, and crumbling from within.

Ignorant, anti-American BS sounds a lot like some empty-headed college freshman trying to impress Professor Oldhippy.

 

[Unkotare]

NYC you have tough Italians , Puerto Rican and Blacks

Rest of NYC.- bunch of snowflakes in the Arizona heat

OK, seriously, what is up with this "NYC 'Italians' are tough guys" thing you have been going on and on about lately?

 

[Unkotare]

...

We on the other hand had to sail all the way down to the south Atlantic to liberate the Falklands After Argentina invaded.
Took us a few weeks.
...

Las Malvinas are by no reasonable measure part of the UK, and your 'mighty' military couldn't even retake that stolen land without support from us. Super impressive.

 

[Oz and the Orchestra]

...

We on the other hand had to sail all the way down to the south Atlantic to liberate the Falklands After Argentina invaded.
Took us a few weeks.
...

Las Malvinas are by no reasonable measure part of the UK, and your 'mighty' military couldn't even retake that stolen land without support from us. Super impressive.

The entire population of the Falklands has always been British. You cant have a greater right than that.
What support? You were too busy financing and supporting the military dictators & death squads in Argentina, Brazil, Chile, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua. Panama etc etc etc. You denied all those countries democracy. What the hell did they have to do with you?
Reagan's was the most disgraceful Presidency in US History. If you go to Bonus Aires or Santiago you will see mothers in their old age still protesting and demanding to know what happened to their children.

 

[whitehall]

Korea was a profound mess (50,000 lost in 3 years and an embarrassing truce) but nobody wants to talk about it because it might impact timid little Harry Truman and the legacy of the pompous ass he appointed as commanding general. The U.S. Military was defeated by chickenshit politicians back home not the V.C. LBJ managed to get the U.S. into a conflict with a faked "crisis" and then set the rules so we could win every battle and lose the freaking war. The democrat majority in congress withdrew funding without notice and the U.S. had to abandon the effort and leave Nixon holding the bag. The greatest Military on the planet went further, faster and took less casualties in the Gulf War than any other battle in history and democrats and the liberal ridiculed the effort.

 

[Unkotare]

...
The entire population of the Falklands has always been British. ....

Why don't you stop and think about that one for a minute.

 

[Unkotare]

...
What support?....

Logistics, satellite info, and simply allowing your soggy asses to put on the little show in the first place.

 

[Oz and the Orchestra]

Th

...
The entire population of the Falklands has always been British. ....

Why don't you stop and think about that one for a minute.

The French Spanish & British had short periods of control from the second half of the 18th century. Previously unpopulated.
The Spanish withdrew in 1811 and the British moved in and it remained British till the Argentinian invasion in 1982.
Argentina were ruled by the Spanish until 1816 and had never had a presence there.

 

[Oz and the Orchestra]

...
What support?....

Logistics, satellite info, and simply allowing your soggy asses to put on the little show in the first place.

Jeane Kirkpatrick was America’s Ambassador to the United Nations at the time of the invasion. She led the group of Reagan officials called ‘Latinistas’ who opposed supporting Britain during the conflict. She argued that it was in America’s national interest to support Argentina. This was because there were fears that the USSR was dominating Latin America and a failure on the part of the US to support the Argentineans would encourage Latin American countries to seek closer relations with the Soviets. The British did not take kindly to the fact she chose to attend a dinner at the Argentinean embassy in the US shortly after she heard of their invasion of the Falklands. She argued that if she chose to abstain she would have difficulty persuading the Argentineans that they were neutral in try to reach a settlement. The British Ambassador Nicholas Henderson was not impressed. He responded by asking if the Americans would be happy if he attended dinner at the Iranian embassy after they heard that they taken 52 Americans hostage. . Britain and America.com

 

[Quasar44]

NYC you have tough Italians , Puerto Rican and Blacks

Rest of NYC.- bunch of snowflakes in the Arizona heat

OK, seriously, what is up with this "NYC 'Italians' are tough guys" thing you have been going on and on about lately?

I can mention Texas men lol

Most Northern whites are Snowflakes

 

[citygator]

Youth today run faster, throw further, hit harder, swim faster, AND score higher academically. It’s no comparison to how you old timers used your time and kids these days. They are busy sun up to sun down. An average med school accepts less than 5% of applicants. You have to invent something to get into Yale. Kids these days are impressive. You guys apparently don’t employ recent college grads nor have driven kids. It’s competitive today. You wouldn’t make it playing stick ball all summer while these kids are in SAT prep classes and volunteering in El Salvador.

 

[Unkotare]

NYC you have tough Italians , Puerto Rican and Blacks

Rest of NYC.- bunch of snowflakes in the Arizona heat

OK, seriously, what is up with this "NYC 'Italians' are tough guys" thing you have been going on and on about lately?

I can mention Texas men lol

Most Northern whites are Snowflakes

How are you coming by these strange stereotypes?

 

[9thIDdoc]

My opinion on the current generation is that I think they are weak but it is not their fault. The degeneration of the US culture goes back to at least the Vietnam War. We started losing our grit in Vietnam and it only has gotten worse since then. We were defeated and humiliated by a fourth-rate military power to point we were cowed by the communist and did not resist them for the rest of the seventies with the coward Jimmy Carter being the greatest example of that period.

It took Ronald Reagan to turn things around; he could nothing about the culture, but he did resist the communist against considerable liberal opposition. Reagan used the Afghan mujahideen to fight the Russians in Afghanistan and other US presidents used our professional military to fight our little wars against terrorists. We have most likely the best military in the world; the problem is that they are not that big. If we get into a war with the Russians in the artic, we will lose. The only hope would be a fast decisive victory by our professional army. If it turns out to be a war of attrition we will lose. We have perhaps 250,000 front line trumps; we outnumber the Russian population by two to one, but they could put perhaps five times more combats troops in the field. The Russians have both a professional and a draftee army. Their people will submit to the draft, but ours won’t. We have a small army and no replacements. We would lose a war of attrition with the Russians. I love my grandchildren with all my heart, but to send them off to war would be nothing short of murder. If the Russians ever understand just how morally weak we are we are screwed.

The American Fighting Soldier is a bit of a joke around the world mainly because he is not properly trained, partly because
the military don't research the enemy so they keep getting caught out. Partly because your politicians are too scared of public opinion at home and because your troops never seem quite sure if they can be asked to see things through to the bitter end. (First Gulf War). More British troops were killed by the Americans than by the enemy (friendly fire) in that war.
In the second Gulf War, the coalition won the war but then you lost the peace. The 'battle for hearts and minds' - what a laugh! You didn't seem to know that when a country is taken over the victors are responsible for Law & Order etc, You dismissed the institutions that ran the country because they were Ba'athist Party members leaving no infrastructure, with the result religious factions began tearing you and each other apart. With the result the minority Sunni's felt so isolated they went off and formed Isis.

Your troops would take snarling dogs into houses not knowing that it against Muslim culture to have dogs in their house. And what the **** was going on in Abu Grabe? - A ******* disgrace that's what.

As for Reagan training and arming the Mujahideen and one Osama Bin Laden. When you then refused to back him in Saudi Arabia he turned on you and after several attacks in the middle east came 9/11. Reagan's chickens certainly came home to roost!
You failed in Korea. Where beaten by a bunch of impoverished paddy farmers in Vietnam. You invaded Grenada, not even knowing it is a British protectorate. You sent helicopters to free hostages in Tehran that crashed unable to function in the sand - what the **** did you expect to find in Iran ******* ice. - You are absolutely ******* hopeless! Then of course there was 'Black Hawk Down' in Somalia - another ******* disaster.

We on the other hand had to sail all the way down to the south Atlantic to liberate the Falklands After Argentina invaded.
Took us a few weeks.

You waited until WW1 was practically over before joining us. And till Hitler was on the back foot after the 'Battle of Britain' & 'Stalingrad' before entering WW11. As for Japan it wasn't The Atomic Bombs that won that, It was because the USSR had declared war on them. Routed them in Manchuria and within two weeks reached the coast ready to invade. While you wined about how many men you might lose (the Russians weren't bothered how many they lost) You let it be known that the Japs could keep their Emperor. The Japs of course knew that not only would their Emperor be gone but also their entire way of life once the Russians invaded.

No sorry gents but when it comes to foreign wars the USA's Politicians, Military and Soldiers are the feeble faggots of the operations room and battlefield.

If British troops were better were better America would still be British