How to win a war (or not)

[gipper]

The Allied strategy of WW2 consisted of killing everyone including civilians and destroying everything including priceless monuments in order to force the maniac leaders to surrender. Bill Clinton did the same thing in Yugoslavia but we have been in Afghanistan for the better part of two decades and it seems that members of the U.S. Military have to get permission from politicians to fire a freaking shot. They even court martialled a combat Marine for the crime of pissing on a dead body. A book and a movie (Lone Survivor) seemed to celebrate a failed Seal mission and the media treats Military Veterans like victims with mental illnesses instead of heroes. Obviously we never intended to defeat the enemy in Afghanistan and still don't.

the enemy is not Afghanistan--as Japan and Germany was
....we are fighting a very complicated war on terrorists/etc--similar to fighting the Viet Cong--very difficult
..we don't want to bomb Afghanistan's '''ball bearing plants'''/aircraft plants/oil/etc

The enemy wasn't Germany or the German people, it was the Nazi regime but yet we firebombed civilians in Dresden to convince Nazi maniacs to surrender. Today the caring and gentle American military arrests combat Marines for pissing on a corpse. LBJ and the CIA set up the rules in Vietnam so that we could win every battle and still lose the freaking war. Didn't we learn anything in fifty years?

There never was any need to occupy Afghanistan. Just as there was no need to occupy Japan, but the Empire does like to conquer.

Nothing enriches the Ruling Class like war...so they want perpetual war and that is what we have. Proof of this is evident with our absurdly long involvement in Afghanistan.

conquer --???!!hahahahahah
I thought the Japanese STARTED it by bombing Pearl
I guess that was just a fairytale

You thought wrong.

 

[harmonica]

The Allied strategy of WW2 consisted of killing everyone including civilians and destroying everything including priceless monuments in order to force the maniac leaders to surrender. Bill Clinton did the same thing in Yugoslavia but we have been in Afghanistan for the better part of two decades and it seems that members of the U.S. Military have to get permission from politicians to fire a freaking shot. They even court martialled a combat Marine for the crime of pissing on a dead body. A book and a movie (Lone Survivor) seemed to celebrate a failed Seal mission and the media treats Military Veterans like victims with mental illnesses instead of heroes. Obviously we never intended to defeat the enemy in Afghanistan and still don't.

the enemy is not Afghanistan--as Japan and Germany was
....we are fighting a very complicated war on terrorists/etc--similar to fighting the Viet Cong--very difficult
..we don't want to bomb Afghanistan's '''ball bearing plants'''/aircraft plants/oil/etc

The enemy wasn't Germany or the German people, it was the Nazi regime but yet we firebombed civilians in Dresden to convince Nazi maniacs to surrender. Today the caring and gentle American military arrests combat Marines for pissing on a corpse. LBJ and the CIA set up the rules in Vietnam so that we could win every battle and still lose the freaking war. Didn't we learn anything in fifty years?

There never was any need to occupy Afghanistan. Just as there was no need to occupy Japan, but the Empire does like to conquer.

Nothing enriches the Ruling Class like war...so they want perpetual war and that is what we have. Proof of this is evident with our absurdly long involvement in Afghanistan.

conquer --???!!hahahahahah
I thought the Japanese STARTED it by bombing Pearl
I guess that was just a fairytale

You thought wrong.

what was I thinking??
that was fake --like the moon landing, I guess....?

 

[pismoe]

There is no uniformed force to fight. They're extremists in small cells that are hard to track. We squish them and more pop up. Do you want us to just carpet bomb the entire country and kill everybody?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- thats the way to fight a WAR Confounding .

 

[gipper]

the enemy is not Afghanistan--as Japan and Germany was
....we are fighting a very complicated war on terrorists/etc--similar to fighting the Viet Cong--very difficult
..we don't want to bomb Afghanistan's '''ball bearing plants'''/aircraft plants/oil/etc

The enemy wasn't Germany or the German people, it was the Nazi regime but yet we firebombed civilians in Dresden to convince Nazi maniacs to surrender. Today the caring and gentle American military arrests combat Marines for pissing on a corpse. LBJ and the CIA set up the rules in Vietnam so that we could win every battle and still lose the freaking war. Didn't we learn anything in fifty years?

There never was any need to occupy Afghanistan. Just as there was no need to occupy Japan, but the Empire does like to conquer.

Nothing enriches the Ruling Class like war...so they want perpetual war and that is what we have. Proof of this is evident with our absurdly long involvement in Afghanistan.

conquer --???!!hahahahahah
I thought the Japanese STARTED it by bombing Pearl
I guess that was just a fairytale

You thought wrong.

what was I thinking??
that was fake --like the moon landing, I guess....?

You must learn to overcome your statist indoctrination. I fear it may be too late.

 

[Confounding]

There is no uniformed force to fight. They're extremists in small cells that are hard to track. We squish them and more pop up. Do you want us to just carpet bomb the entire country and kill everybody?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- thats the way to fight a WAR Confounding .

How many people need to die for the crimes of the people that orchestrated 9/11? If we kill a million innocents are we not worse than those that killed 3,000?

 

[harmonica]

The enemy wasn't Germany or the German people, it was the Nazi regime but yet we firebombed civilians in Dresden to convince Nazi maniacs to surrender. Today the caring and gentle American military arrests combat Marines for pissing on a corpse. LBJ and the CIA set up the rules in Vietnam so that we could win every battle and still lose the freaking war. Didn't we learn anything in fifty years?

There never was any need to occupy Afghanistan. Just as there was no need to occupy Japan, but the Empire does like to conquer.

Nothing enriches the Ruling Class like war...so they want perpetual war and that is what we have. Proof of this is evident with our absurdly long involvement in Afghanistan.

conquer --???!!hahahahahah
I thought the Japanese STARTED it by bombing Pearl
I guess that was just a fairytale

You thought wrong.

what was I thinking??
that was fake --like the moon landing, I guess....?

You must learn to overcome your statist indoctrination. I fear it may be too late.

.....you must learn to overcome your insanity and hatred of the country that helps the world out the most
..we might not be perfect--but NO country is

 

[harmonica]

There is no uniformed force to fight. They're extremists in small cells that are hard to track. We squish them and more pop up. Do you want us to just carpet bomb the entire country and kill everybody?

they don't know what they want
they just blabber

 

[pismoe]

There is no uniformed force to fight. They're extremists in small cells that are hard to track. We squish them and more pop up. Do you want us to just carpet bomb the entire country and kill everybody?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- thats the way to fight a WAR Confounding .

How many people need to die for the crimes of the people that orchestrated 9/11? If we kill a million innocents are we not worse than those that killed 3,000?

-------------------------------------i guess that i think similar to the Greatest Generation that WON ww2 . I am not worried about being Better or Worse . I thought that the goal was to win the WAR Confounding .

 

[whitehall]

During WW2 the Allies decided that wholesale killing of defenseless civilians was the way to win the war. I'm not disputing that strategy. I just wonder why the greatest military force on the globe couldn't defend a U.S. warship against a speedboat load of teenage terrorists and a G.I. (do they still call them that) has to hesitate and risk his own life when confronted by a threat because he might be court martialed if a civilian gets in the way.

 

[ozro]

during ww2 germany bombed several european cities and launched v2 rockets (and bombed) londen.

they siezed the land of other countries and imprisoned and tortured the citizens of those countries.

nazi production and research facilities were mostly in civilian areas.

why does the op cast dispersions on the allied forces who freed those countries, at great cost?

 

[gipper]

during ww2 germany bombed several european cities and launched v2 rockets (and bombed) londen.

they siezed the land of other countries and imprisoned and tortured the citizens of those countries.

nazi production and research facilities were mostly in civilian areas.

why does the op cast dispersions on the allied forces who freed those countries, at great cost?

Is that a justification for mass murdering defenseless civilians of a nation ruled by a fanatical dictator?

 

[ozro]

during ww2 germany bombed several european cities and launched v2 rockets (and bombed) londen.

they siezed the land of other countries and imprisoned and tortured the citizens of those countries.

nazi production and research facilities were mostly in civilian areas.

why does the op cast dispersions on the allied forces who freed those countries, at great cost?

Is that a justification for mass murdering defenseless civilians of a nation ruled by a fanatical dictator?

it is a justification of the "total war" strategy that was required to defeat an enemy that itself had and was waging war on civilians.

on a related note, both hiruhito and hitler announced to the world that ALL their respective citizens were defenders of the fatherland and would be expected to fight to the death. A few russian accounts of the fall of berlin i have read document nazi radio broadcasting this message as they fought their way into berlin...street by street. Those germans that wouldnt fight were seen hanging from lightpoles as the russians advanced, hung by their own countrymen.

 

[gipper]

during ww2 germany bombed several european cities and launched v2 rockets (and bombed) londen.

they siezed the land of other countries and imprisoned and tortured the citizens of those countries.

nazi production and research facilities were mostly in civilian areas.

why does the op cast dispersions on the allied forces who freed those countries, at great cost?

Is that a justification for mass murdering defenseless civilians of a nation ruled by a fanatical dictator?

it is a justification of the "total war" strategy that was required to defeat an enemy that itself had and was waging war on civilians.

on a related note, both hiruhito and hitler announced to the world that ALL their respective citizens were defenders of the fatherland and would be expected to fight to the death. A few russian accounts of the fall of berlin i have read document nazi radio broadcasting this message as they fought their way into berlin...street by street. Those germans that wouldnt fight were seen hanging from lightpoles as the russians advanced, hung by their own countrymen.

No nation has murdered more civilians in war, than the good old USA. Even the murderous Hitler wasn't nearly as bad. He refused to bomb London, until Churchill bombed his civilians.

 

[ozro]

during ww2 germany bombed several european cities and launched v2 rockets (and bombed) londen.

they siezed the land of other countries and imprisoned and tortured the citizens of those countries.

nazi production and research facilities were mostly in civilian areas.

why does the op cast dispersions on the allied forces who freed those countries, at great cost?

Is that a justification for mass murdering defenseless civilians of a nation ruled by a fanatical dictator?

it is a justification of the "total war" strategy that was required to defeat an enemy that itself had and was waging war on civilians.

on a related note, both hiruhito and hitler announced to the world that ALL their respective citizens were defenders of the fatherland and would be expected to fight to the death. A few russian accounts of the fall of berlin i have read document nazi radio broadcasting this message as they fought their way into berlin...street by street. Those germans that wouldnt fight were seen hanging from lightpoles as the russians advanced, hung by their own countrymen.

No nation has murdered more civilians in war, than the good old USA. Even the murderous Hitler wasn't nearly as bad. He refused to bomb London, until Churchill bombed his civilians.

your an uneducated ignoramous.

just be damn sure that you remain on your side of my gate. you can say whatever stupid shit you want on your side of my gate. Cross it and you will be coyote shit the next day, which would be an improvement as far as i can tell.

 

[whitehall]

It's hard to get a handle on the Nazi atrocities. They had an executioner who traveled from town to town with a freaking guillotine. The Hitler Nazis revived the technique of the public beheading thousands of political protesters. When you factor in the the Holocaust and the systematic murder of Jews, homosexuals, Gypsies and other enemies of the Nazi regime you have to gasp at the depravity. That having been said the winner writes the history books and the firebombing of Dresden was part of the strategy to force the maniacs to surrender. I don't have a problem with the concept of winning at any cost. What bothers me is how much of our will to win has been lost since 1945. Harry Truman managed to grasp defeat from the jaws of victory when he allowed a possibly mentally impaired General to engage in an ego trip and the Korean War never ended. LBJ let the CIA run the Vietnam war and we won every battle but lost the war. Timid George Bush was afraid of the political implications of firing on a civilian threat and we lost brave Sailors on the USS Cole ....and the beat goes on.

 

[pismoe]

last good use of USA Mightyness that i remember was the destroying of the 'iraqi army' as it was retreating back to 'iraq' . Think it was in 91 or 92 . But it was General 'Storming Norman Schwarkopf ' . I think it was 'Stormin Norman' who built or oversaw the building of the famous Highway of Death' for the retreating 'iraqi army' . Newer 'generals' that i know a bit about and have disdain for is 'gun control advocate mccrystal' , cheater on his wife and obama boy 'petraus' and wussy 'colon powell . --------------- just a few comments !!

 

[anynameyouwish]

The Allied strategy of WW2 consisted of killing everyone including civilians and destroying everything including priceless monuments in order to force the maniac leaders to surrender. Bill Clinton did the same thing in Yugoslavia but we have been in Afghanistan for the better part of two decades and it seems that members of the U.S. Military have to get permission from politicians to fire a freaking shot. They even court martialled a combat Marine for the crime of pissing on a dead body. A book and a movie (Lone Survivor) seemed to celebrate a failed Seal mission and the media treats Military Veterans like victims with mental illnesses instead of heroes. Obviously we never intended to defeat the enemy in Afghanistan and still don't.

"The Allied strategy of WW2 consisted of killing everyone including civilians and destroying everything including priceless monuments in order to force the maniac leaders to surrender."

I don't remember my father, who was in the european theatre, even mentioning "killing everyone" and "destroying everything"

I think your conservative leaders are lying to you....

You have GOT to stop reading politicalchics lies......

 

[anynameyouwish]

It's hard to get a handle on the Nazi atrocities. They had an executioner who traveled from town to town with a freaking guillotine. The Hitler Nazis revived the technique of the public beheading thousands of political protesters. When you factor in the the Holocaust and the systematic murder of Jews, homosexuals, Gypsies and other enemies of the Nazi regime you have to gasp at the depravity. That having been said the winner writes the history books and the firebombing of Dresden was part of the strategy to force the maniacs to surrender. I don't have a problem with the concept of winning at any cost. What bothers me is how much of our will to win has been lost since 1945. Harry Truman managed to grasp defeat from the jaws of victory when he allowed a possibly mentally impaired General to engage in an ego trip and the Korean War never ended. LBJ let the CIA run the Vietnam war and we won every battle but lost the war. Timid George Bush was afraid of the political implications of firing on a civilian threat and we lost brave Sailors on the USS Cole ....and the beat goes on.

"I don't have a problem with the concept of winning at any cost."

except when your enemies do it?

 

[pismoe]

It's hard to get a handle on the Nazi atrocities. They had an executioner who traveled from town to town with a freaking guillotine. The Hitler Nazis revived the technique of the public beheading thousands of political protesters. When you factor in the the Holocaust and the systematic murder of Jews, homosexuals, Gypsies and other enemies of the Nazi regime you have to gasp at the depravity. That having been said the winner writes the history books and the firebombing of Dresden was part of the strategy to force the maniacs to surrender. I don't have a problem with the concept of winning at any cost. What bothers me is how much of our will to win has been lost since 1945. Harry Truman managed to grasp defeat from the jaws of victory when he allowed a possibly mentally impaired General to engage in an ego trip and the Korean War never ended. LBJ let the CIA run the Vietnam war and we won every battle but lost the war. Timid George Bush was afraid of the political implications of firing on a civilian threat and we lost brave Sailors on the USS Cole ....and the beat goes on.

"I don't have a problem with the concept of winning at any cost."

except when your enemies do it?

------------------------------------ first , you gotta kill the enemy so that they can't kill you AName .

 

[SandSquid]

German Civilian deaths from all allied bombings based on Germany's own studies have shown between 351k-434k civilian deaths.

WWII had the largest number of civilian casualties due to military activity and crimes against humanity by the axis powers.

China suffered around 8 million deaths from military activities by the Axis, and another 5-10 million due to war related famine and disease. Poland had 5-6 million civilian deaths due to axis military activity and crimes against humanity. The Soviet Union had 5-10 million due to those causes and another 8-10 million due to famine/disease.

Some nazi sympathizers like to lie and say the US was the major cause, even though real life said the USSR, Poland, and China suffered by FAR the most civilian deaths. Places the US wasn't attacking. ALL allied bombing killed less Germans than Germany did in their crimes against humanity according to Germany's own records and studies.

But, since when did nazi's and their sympathizers ever listen to facts eh?