How To Teach An Atheist About Jesus Christ?

[Coloradomtnman]

Yea, everyone who has no beliefs sure spend a lot of time stumping the fact. ; - )

It's not about converting people to atheism, it's about demonstrating the lack of critical analysis, logic and validity for acceptance of the belief that has no sound argument or evidential basis.

When atheists share their religion of atheism, they:

1) Demonstrate the atheists' lack of critical analysis.
2) Demonstrate the atheists' lack of logic.
3) Demonstrate the atheists' lack of validity for acceptance of atheism.
4) Atheists have no sound arguments for atheism.
5) Atheists have no evidential basis for atheism.

I think we are using different definitions for the term atheist.

I mean it to be: one who is not a theist.

I think you mean it to be: one who believes there is no God.

 

[MrDVS1]

Yea, everyone who has no beliefs sure spend a lot of time stumping the fact. ; - )

It's not about converting people to atheism, it's about demonstrating the lack of critical analysis, logic and validity for acceptance of the belief that has no sound argument or evidential basis.

When atheists share their religion of atheism, they:

1) Demonstrate the atheists' lack of critical analysis.
2) Demonstrate the atheists' lack of logic.
3) Demonstrate the atheists' lack of validity for acceptance of atheism.
4) Atheists have no sound arguments for atheism.
5) Atheists have no evidential basis for atheism.

I think we are using different definitions for the term atheist.

I mean it to be: one who is not a theist.

I was using the criteria in post #1

I think you mean it to be: one who believes there is no God.

 

[MaxGrit]

I want to find a good way to teach an Atheist the truth about Jesus Christ and God.

Atheist Characteristics:
- Easy Going
- Listens Well
- Very Stubborn
- Argues against Reality
- Believes in Life After Death
- Doesn't believe in a Creator God

I believe a soft "feelings" based method to teaching would work best? Or how about a hard core approach?

Why do you assume that Atheists don't already know about JC......some of them may even know more about the Jesus story than you would like to hear.

Why do you assume the subject is about all atheists?

Read the thread title carefully. Notice that the subject is an Atheist (singular noun). This person have the characteristics described in the OP.

LoL. Funny how everyone assumed I was asking about atheists in general. LoL.

I noticed that almost all people often read what they think. It's very rare to see someone actually think what they read.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

@MaxGrit

Whoops.

Well, if this is a particular atheist then instead of talking to this person about Jesus Christ (because they will immediately respond negatively), instead point out any inconsistencies in their arguments directly without mentioning religion. Get them to reexamine their own position by criticizing their arguments. Don't make any claims, unless it is to attack an irrational or illogical argument. The Socratic method works really well. And be patient: it won't happen over night. The person you're talking with needs time to rethink their beliefs. Good luck: you're gonna need it.

 

[PratchettFan]

@MaxGrit

Whoops.

Well, if this is a particular atheist then instead of talking to this person about Jesus Christ (because they will immediately respond negatively), instead point out any inconsistencies in their arguments directly without mentioning religion. Get them to reexamine their own position by criticizing their arguments. Don't make any claims, unless it is to attack an irrational or illogical argument. The Socratic method works really well. And be patient: it won't happen over night. The person you're talking with needs time to rethink their beliefs. Good luck: you're gonna need it.

Reverse that and consider whether it would work on you. You can't force yourself to believe something you don't.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

@MaxGrit

Whoops.

Well, if this is a particular atheist then instead of talking to this person about Jesus Christ (because they will immediately respond negatively), instead point out any inconsistencies in their arguments directly without mentioning religion. Get them to reexamine their own position by criticizing their arguments. Don't make any claims, unless it is to attack an irrational or illogical argument. The Socratic method works really well. And be patient: it won't happen over night. The person you're talking with needs time to rethink their beliefs. Good luck: you're gonna need it.

Reverse that and consider whether it would work on you. You can't force yourself to believe something you don't.

I do everyday because I'm not convinced that there isn't a god. I'm also not convinced I'm right about everything.

 

[PratchettFan]

@MaxGrit

Whoops.

Well, if this is a particular atheist then instead of talking to this person about Jesus Christ (because they will immediately respond negatively), instead point out any inconsistencies in their arguments directly without mentioning religion. Get them to reexamine their own position by criticizing their arguments. Don't make any claims, unless it is to attack an irrational or illogical argument. The Socratic method works really well. And be patient: it won't happen over night. The person you're talking with needs time to rethink their beliefs. Good luck: you're gonna need it.

Reverse that and consider whether it would work on you. You can't force yourself to believe something you don't.

I do everyday because I'm not convinced that there isn't a god. I'm also not convinced I'm right about everything.

You are forcing yourself to believe there isn't a god?

Let me take a different tack. If I were to get you to re-examine your position by asking you questions without making any claims, do you think I could get you to convert to Hinduism?

 

[Coloradomtnman]

@MaxGrit

Whoops.

Well, if this is a particular atheist then instead of talking to this person about Jesus Christ (because they will immediately respond negatively), instead point out any inconsistencies in their arguments directly without mentioning religion. Get them to reexamine their own position by criticizing their arguments. Don't make any claims, unless it is to attack an irrational or illogical argument. The Socratic method works really well. And be patient: it won't happen over night. The person you're talking with needs time to rethink their beliefs. Good luck: you're gonna need it.

Reverse that and consider whether it would work on you. You can't force yourself to believe something you don't.

I do everyday because I'm not convinced that there isn't a god. I'm also not convinced I'm right about everything.

You are forcing yourself to believe there isn't a god?

Let me take a different tack. If I were to get you to re-examine your position by asking you questions without making any claims, do you think I could get you to convert to Hinduism?

No, I'm not forcing myself to believe anything. I question my "beliefs" everyday.

No, but you would cause me to reexamine my "beliefs". That's a good thing, right?

 

[PratchettFan]

@MaxGrit

Whoops.

Well, if this is a particular atheist then instead of talking to this person about Jesus Christ (because they will immediately respond negatively), instead point out any inconsistencies in their arguments directly without mentioning religion. Get them to reexamine their own position by criticizing their arguments. Don't make any claims, unless it is to attack an irrational or illogical argument. The Socratic method works really well. And be patient: it won't happen over night. The person you're talking with needs time to rethink their beliefs. Good luck: you're gonna need it.

Reverse that and consider whether it would work on you. You can't force yourself to believe something you don't.

I do everyday because I'm not convinced that there isn't a god. I'm also not convinced I'm right about everything.

You are forcing yourself to believe there isn't a god?

Let me take a different tack. If I were to get you to re-examine your position by asking you questions without making any claims, do you think I could get you to convert to Hinduism?

No, I'm not forcing myself to believe anything. I question my "beliefs" everyday.

No, but you would cause me to reexamine my "beliefs". That's a good thing, right?

Ok. Clarification is always helpful. I said you can't force yourself to believe something and you said you do it every day because you are not convinced there isn't a god. I connected those two things, which surprised me from reading posts from you in the past.

Re-examining beliefs is always a good thing. One of the reasons I like this place is that it makes me do just that. I just don't think it will cause someone to change beliefs, only to refine them. The people I have known who really did change beliefs did so as the result of significant changes in their life. Of course, making generalizations is always a dangerous course so I could be wrong.

 

[MaxGrit]

@MaxGrit

Whoops.

Well, if this is a particular atheist then instead of talking to this person about Jesus Christ (because they will immediately respond negatively), instead point out any inconsistencies in their arguments directly without mentioning religion. Get them to reexamine their own position by criticizing their arguments. Don't make any claims, unless it is to attack an irrational or illogical argument. The Socratic method works really well. And be patient: it won't happen over night. The person you're talking with needs time to rethink their beliefs. Good luck: you're gonna need it.

Thank you. Obviously faith in Jesus Christ is by grace from God alone. I will pray that it's God's will that Atheist will come to faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

If not mistaken, most atheists were raised with religion. Hence why they became atheists.

Raised with it or not, learning about it is what makes people atheists.

And the constant bible thumping just serves to turn people away even more.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Yea, everyone who has no beliefs sure spend a lot of time stumping the fact. ; - )

It's not about converting people to atheism, it's about demonstrating the lack of critical analysis, logic and validity for acceptance of the belief that has no sound argument or evidential basis.

When atheists share their religion of atheism, they:

1) Demonstrate the atheists' lack of critical analysis.
2) Demonstrate the atheists' lack of logic.
3) Demonstrate the atheists' lack of validity for acceptance of atheism.
4) Atheists have no sound arguments for atheism.
5) Atheists have no evidential basis for atheism.

Atheists say the same about believers. The very definition of faith is the suspension of science and evidence.

Doesn't really matter though.

Whichever of the various gods you choose to believe in - that's your business and I respect that.

My beliefs are my business.

MYOB

 

[Coloradomtnman]

@MaxGrit

Whoops.

Well, if this is a particular atheist then instead of talking to this person about Jesus Christ (because they will immediately respond negatively), instead point out any inconsistencies in their arguments directly without mentioning religion. Get them to reexamine their own position by criticizing their arguments. Don't make any claims, unless it is to attack an irrational or illogical argument. The Socratic method works really well. And be patient: it won't happen over night. The person you're talking with needs time to rethink their beliefs. Good luck: you're gonna need it.

Reverse that and consider whether it would work on you. You can't force yourself to believe something you don't.

I do everyday because I'm not convinced that there isn't a god. I'm also not convinced I'm right about everything.

You are forcing yourself to believe there isn't a god?

Let me take a different tack. If I were to get you to re-examine your position by asking you questions without making any claims, do you think I could get you to convert to Hinduism?

No, I'm not forcing myself to believe anything. I question my "beliefs" everyday.

No, but you would cause me to reexamine my "beliefs". That's a good thing, right?

Ok. Clarification is always helpful. I said you can't force yourself to believe something and you said you do it every day because you are not convinced there isn't a god. I connected those two things, which surprised me from reading posts from you in the past.

Re-examining beliefs is always a good thing. One of the reasons I like this place is that it makes me do just that. I just don't think it will cause someone to change beliefs, only to refine them. The people I have known who really did change beliefs did so as the result of significant changes in their life. Of course, making generalizations is always a dangerous course so I could be wrong.

Sorry, I had just woke up and communicating clearly was difficult.

I had a gf that was nominally Christian. When we talked religion and all that kinda stuff, to put it articulately, I questioned the reasons for her belief. She's now some mixture of buddhist/agnostic. I don't know if she's happier but she gives such topics more thought now. And you know what they say about unexamined lives...

 

[Coloradomtnman]

@MaxGrit

Whoops.

Well, if this is a particular atheist then instead of talking to this person about Jesus Christ (because they will immediately respond negatively), instead point out any inconsistencies in their arguments directly without mentioning religion. Get them to reexamine their own position by criticizing their arguments. Don't make any claims, unless it is to attack an irrational or illogical argument. The Socratic method works really well. And be patient: it won't happen over night. The person you're talking with needs time to rethink their beliefs. Good luck: you're gonna need it.

Thank you. Obviously faith in Jesus Christ is by grace from God alone. I will pray that it's God's will that Atheist will come to faith in Jesus Christ.

If that's true, why talk to Atheist about JC at all?

 

[emilynghiem]

Yea, everyone who has no beliefs sure spend a lot of time stumping the fact. ; - )

It's not about converting people to atheism, it's about demonstrating the lack of critical analysis, logic and validity for acceptance of the belief that has no sound argument or evidential basis.

When atheists share their religion of atheism, they:

1) Demonstrate the atheists' lack of critical analysis.
2) Demonstrate the atheists' lack of logic.
3) Demonstrate the atheists' lack of validity for acceptance of atheism.
4) Atheists have no sound arguments for atheism.
5) Atheists have no evidential basis for atheism.

Hi MaxGrit
To get both you and your atheist friend on the same page with logic and critical analysis.
If you understand the dynamics of change, there is an equal and opposite reaction involved.
Both people open up to gain understanding of the other's views, both strongpoints and weakpoints,
and vice versa.

If you KNOW that you do not respond to people well if they only focus on your negatives instead of your positives,
you KNOW that the other person also responds better by listening to both.

So use this logic when you interact.

Atheists get nowhere by saying the above 5 things about theists.
So why would you expect to get anywhere saying these 5 things about atheists?

Logic and analysis would tell you why you are both striking out with this approach
to trying to change the other person by assuming they are wrong.

Why not focus on what is good that you agree in common.
And learn how to translate between your theist language and terms
into secular atheist terms for the same concepts and principles.

Max if you do not know the difference between the "retributive and restorative"
approaches to justice, but only focus on judging the other person,
they will take that same approach and judge you back (in retribution) as the one who isn't logical
or willing to see the greater truth beyond your assumptions you already know it.

The restorative approach to seeking truth is open to both people sharing equally.
It is not one person changing the other.
You will change to the same degree the other will.
So if only your perception changes or only your language changes,
that is what will change mutually with your friend working and stretching to meet you half way.

You cannot expect to change their views underneath
unless you see yourself doing the same.

Most change is on the level of perception and language for how
we say things so the other person understands using their terms that make sense to them.

Very few changes occur by completely converting people to some other belief system,
that is very rare.

My advice to you is work on yourself to open up to expanding your
perception to include not reject atheists, and they will open up
and try to include you in their worldview instead of rejecting you, too.

Does this make sense Max?
I appreciate you reaching out and I do support
you in whatever changes you aspire to make which will be great!

The effort it takes the other person will
be equalled by the effort you make to reach out and
understand the atheists on their own terms. If you keep projecting
your interpretation on them, they will do the same to you so you get stuck.

if both open up to hear what the other person means on their side of the fence,
then you have a chance to get somewhere. it's your perception that will
change more than anything, and that is a mutual process between both people.

I think you will like it when the fence is down and you can
see and feel what each other really means underneath the language barrier.

Yours truly,
Emily

 

[emilynghiem]

@MaxGrit

Whoops.

Well, if this is a particular atheist then instead of talking to this person about Jesus Christ (because they will immediately respond negatively), instead point out any inconsistencies in their arguments directly without mentioning religion. Get them to reexamine their own position by criticizing their arguments. Don't make any claims, unless it is to attack an irrational or illogical argument. The Socratic method works really well. And be patient: it won't happen over night. The person you're talking with needs time to rethink their beliefs. Good luck: you're gonna need it.

Reverse that and consider whether it would work on you. You can't force yourself to believe something you don't.

I do everyday because I'm not convinced that there isn't a god. I'm also not convinced I'm right about everything.

HI CMM: You seem open minded and level headed, pretty objective and fair.
Can I ask your help to backtrack and see what I wrote out about explaining JC in terms of Restorative Justice?

I am guessing that if MG can understand the difference that Restorative Justice makes in transforming
negative situations into positive, he will understand how to explain that's what JC means in people's lives.
But if he is still operating in the negative, he doesn't get the full message yet, so of course how can
he explain it to others?

I know this is backwards.
But if you and PF are more about restorative justice, then it may be
that we need to preach the good news gospel to Max that this is the meaning of Christ in the Bible.

It could be that we understand it, but he doesn't get it yet.
Ironic isn't it? I have an atheist friend who teaches abundance of grace
and the power of forgiveness to transform lives, and does a better job than a lot of Christians
at teching this same msg. Yet he explains it secularly as an atheist and it's the same message and
helps people spiritually.

Can you look at that and do a better job of explaining it?
I make things too long. sorry!

 

[emilynghiem]

@MaxGrit

Whoops.

Well, if this is a particular atheist then instead of talking to this person about Jesus Christ (because they will immediately respond negatively), instead point out any inconsistencies in their arguments directly without mentioning religion. Get them to reexamine their own position by criticizing their arguments. Don't make any claims, unless it is to attack an irrational or illogical argument. The Socratic method works really well. And be patient: it won't happen over night. The person you're talking with needs time to rethink their beliefs. Good luck: you're gonna need it.

Thank you. Obviously faith in Jesus Christ is by grace from God alone. I will pray that it's God's will that Atheist will come to faith in Jesus Christ.

Hi Max Grit: If you can understand the process of Restorative Justice
then you can explain what Christ Jesus means to anyone.

If my explanation is too drawn out, I am asking other people to explain it better.
Then all people can come to an agreed understanding, including theists who don't get the bigger picture either.

We all have to stretch and open up more to receive the full impact of what Christ Jesus means in our lives.
it is not a one-sided process but involves mutual forgiveness on all sides to fully receive.

I pray that all things impeding the way of this process be removed and resolved,
and more wisdom and clarity be received by all people coming together here in mind and spirit. Thanks!

 

[emilynghiem]

@MaxGrit

Whoops.

Well, if this is a particular atheist then instead of talking to this person about Jesus Christ (because they will immediately respond negatively), instead point out any inconsistencies in their arguments directly without mentioning religion. Get them to reexamine their own position by criticizing their arguments. Don't make any claims, unless it is to attack an irrational or illogical argument. The Socratic method works really well. And be patient: it won't happen over night. The person you're talking with needs time to rethink their beliefs. Good luck: you're gonna need it.

Thank you. Obviously faith in Jesus Christ is by grace from God alone. I will pray that it's God's will that Atheist will come to faith in Jesus Christ.

If that's true, why talk to Atheist about JC at all?

To learn that the process is mutual of overcoming the 5 perceptions that MG listed,
wherever these are causing obstruction. it is not a oneway process.
it is not just one side that changes perception but people on all sides stretching to include
and understand each other. and forgive and quit the negative projections getting in the way.

 

[MaxGrit]

@MaxGrit

Whoops.

Well, if this is a particular atheist then instead of talking to this person about Jesus Christ (because they will immediately respond negatively), instead point out any inconsistencies in their arguments directly without mentioning religion. Get them to reexamine their own position by criticizing their arguments. Don't make any claims, unless it is to attack an irrational or illogical argument. The Socratic method works really well. And be patient: it won't happen over night. The person you're talking with needs time to rethink their beliefs. Good luck: you're gonna need it.

Thank you. Obviously faith in Jesus Christ is by grace from God alone. I will pray that it's God's will that Atheist will come to faith in Jesus Christ.

If that's true, why talk to Atheist about JC at all?

Romans 10 (ESV)

How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

 

[MaxGrit]

Thanks Emily.

I don't want Atheist to go to Hell when Atheist dies. God saved Atheist from death once already. I am blessed that God answered my prayers that time, prayers that I didn't know to pray for.