How To Negotiate With Terrorists: Figure Out Clearly What It Is They Want

[cereal_killer]

Were it up to me - I would send a flight of 15 B-52s (or B2s) to Racca, Syria. When they were finished, there would not be one living soul left alive. Let's get one thing straight. There are NO civilians in Racca. Any human being alive there is in full support of ISIS....Whatever was left of CAC for ISIS would understand the implications of continuing. Then, I would insert the 82nd Airborne in the area with a clear understanding that ANYONE with a rifle, RPG, RPK, or a pistol dies on sight - be they man, woman or child....Next, I would pick a 30-40 man team to hunt terrorists down around the world. (Something like SF or perhaps DIA second special operations) and conduct raids on terrorists wherever they be in the world, cross borders and kill them with impunity. Israel does this - and the world never hears about it....Until we begin to become as ruthless as our enemy - and show them the same "respect" they show us - this will only fester and get worse. We MUST tell liberals to sit the hell down, shut the fuck up and let MEN handle the situation.

Yes, because "letting the MEN handle the situation" has always worked out well, especially in nuanced troubles where flexibility, restraint and well timed action (or inaction), vacillating between the two as called for is concerned..

Your solution on its face is utterly logical otherwise. Except you forgot one thing: you're not fighting men per se, you are fighting an entity that is larger than its components. That entity is FEAR expressed as PROTECTIVE EXTREME ANGER in primate young males. And the fear I see coming from them that is larger and more amorphous than any clean target you could send your special forces after, comes from their collective and growing fear that the West's depravity is like a disease spreading even within the ranks of their own culture.

Plug it in. It fits. That's why they're clamping down on their own so hard too. What seems like random senseless violence outward and inward from these radicals is actually an expression of fear of preservation of a larger ideal: their culture they see as being annihilated by the West. And, to make matters worse, they are correct, because that's exactly what's happening.

What also fits like a glove is that they are promising to infiltrate and overturn our Western perversions with their own extreme form of being prude. Yes they're hypocrites too...but men caught up in the fury of their righteous indignation and fear/anger response seldom pause to examine their own hypocrisy or skewed rationalizations. And hence the reason why I offered the solutions I have. I think the West should rein itself in as a capitulation to the extreme fear it has been causing in the Islamic ranks. Perhaps the West should offer up some real tangible sacrifice of its depravity in exchange for a "chill period" where everyone takes stock of what happened and reflects on themselves.

They are killing Christians because to them, "Christians" = American Christians who are all sitting on ass while the culture they live in and are losing (or willingly forfeiting) their grasp over spirals into the spiritual septic tank, overflowing everywhere in the world through social and regular media.

The one thing escalation hates the most is a moment of quiet repose and self-reflection. Think about it. Oh, wait, that's one thing MEN never do is stop themselves when engaged in raw fury and rational objectives and THINK ABOUT IT first...

We should at rock bottom minimum ask them what their angst is. We should ask them to present a list of grievances and we should listen to them. Every single wise leader throughout ancient history to present time, when confronted with an escalating problems from the populace, has done exactly this: made capitulations to the grievances (yes, actually and humbly made personal sacrifices to those he ordinarily wouldn't from his usual habit and privilege of unchecked power) in exchange for peace in the land.

You're over analyzing and thinking too hard about this whole thing. While your busy thinking and analyzing the situation, it continues to grow out of control. The time to think has long since sailed. We're dealing in the here and now.

Look, if you have a building that is in the midst of a rat infestation you don't sit back and analyze whats causing it. You eradicate the rats THEN try and fix what caused it.

 

[peach174]

1) Give terrorists 150 billion dollars

2) Make them promise that they won't develop nuclear weapons

3) Remove all economic sanctions against them

4) Ask for very, very little in return

I hate to obliterate your retarded talking point (not really) but... Iran has shipped out 25,000 pounds of enriched uranium , deactivated a breeder reactor, and dismantled 15,000 centrifuges, setting their nuclear weapons program back by several years.

God...DAMMIT!!!

Yes because they were promised they can have all of the nukes they want when it ends, hoping that a future congress will do something else about it.
It's Insane.

 

[couch protester]

Would it really hurt to ask? Would it really hurt to listen? What's more painful, all these insane acts of violence or just setting national pride aside and saying "OK, you've got our attention". I mean it's obvious they have our attention. That cat has already been out of the bag for some time. So might as well acknowledge it.

Terrorist sympathizer detected alert. Alright Jane Fonda enough of your Propaganda Jedi mind games.

...Socialist allow terrorist to instill fear in them, so the socialist submit to Allah radicals, allowing them to blow up more children, making you socialist cowards weak like Neville Chamberlain "Peace In Our Time"

...So you want ISIS/Jihad withholding info, gathering around the campfire with us singing Kumbaya because liberals want America to spare them but not spare the kids they target in terrorist attacks?

...you're just an undercover Jihad couch activist planted here by terrorist claiming to be American converting Americans to be ISIS sympathizers in order to let our guard down, become weak,exposed for attack.

Jihad is declaring psychological cyber warfare posing as Americans to brainwash Americans with propaganda like the Vietnamese did with Americans during Vietnam war to turn us against each other and turn on our own gov

You can't be anti-war and love innocent humans without saving them from terrorists. If you love peace for humanity, then, you save lives to risk your own. Anti-war messages don't save kids in danger when being attacked pleading "save me"

 

[Silhouette]

You're over analyzing and thinking too hard about this whole thing. While your busy thinking and analyzing the situation, it continues to grow out of control. The time to think has long since sailed. We're dealing in the here and now.

Look, if you have a building that is in the midst of a rat infestation you don't sit back and analyze whats causing it. You eradicate the rats THEN try and fix what caused it.

It's either that or I'm not.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Were it up to me - I would send a flight of 15 B-52s (or B2s) to Racca, Syria. When they were finished, there would not be one living soul left alive. Let's get one thing straight. There are NO civilians in Racca. Any human being alive there is in full support of ISIS....Whatever was left of CAC for ISIS would understand the implications of continuing. Then, I would insert the 82nd Airborne in the area with a clear understanding that ANYONE with a rifle, RPG, RPK, or a pistol dies on sight - be they man, woman or child....Next, I would pick a 30-40 man team to hunt terrorists down around the world. (Something like SF or perhaps DIA second special operations) and conduct raids on terrorists wherever they be in the world, cross borders and kill them with impunity. Israel does this - and the world never hears about it....Until we begin to become as ruthless as our enemy - and show them the same "respect" they show us - this will only fester and get worse. We MUST tell liberals to sit the hell down, shut the fuck up and let MEN handle the situation.

Yes, because "letting the MEN handle the situation" has always worked out well, especially in nuanced troubles where flexibility, restraint and well timed action (or inaction), vacillating between the two as called for is concerned..

Your solution on its face is utterly logical otherwise. Except you forgot one thing: you're not fighting men per se, you are fighting an entity that is larger than its components. That entity is FEAR expressed as PROTECTIVE EXTREME ANGER in primate young males. And the fear I see coming from them that is larger and more amorphous than any clean target you could send your special forces after, comes from their collective and growing fear that the West's depravity is like a disease spreading even within the ranks of their own culture.

Plug it in. It fits. That's why they're clamping down on their own so hard too. What seems like random senseless violence outward and inward from these radicals is actually an expression of fear of preservation of a larger ideal: their culture they see as being annihilated by the West. And, to make matters worse, they are correct, because that's exactly what's happening.

What also fits like a glove is that they are promising to infiltrate and overturn our Western perversions with their own extreme form of being prude. Yes they're hypocrites too...but men caught up in the fury of their righteous indignation and fear/anger response seldom pause to examine their own hypocrisy or skewed rationalizations. And hence the reason why I offered the solutions I have. I think the West should rein itself in as a capitulation to the extreme fear it has been causing in the Islamic ranks. Perhaps the West should offer up some real tangible sacrifice of its depravity in exchange for a "chill period" where everyone takes stock of what happened and reflects on themselves.

They are killing Christians because to them, "Christians" = American Christians who are all sitting on ass while the culture they live in and are losing (or willingly forfeiting) their grasp over spirals into the spiritual septic tank, overflowing everywhere in the world through social and regular media.

The one thing escalation hates the most is a moment of quiet repose and self-reflection. Think about it. Oh, wait, that's one thing MEN never do is stop themselves when engaged in raw fury and rational objectives and THINK ABOUT IT first...

We should at rock bottom minimum ask them what their angst is. We should ask them to present a list of grievances and we should listen to them. Every single wise leader throughout ancient history to present time, when confronted with an escalating problems from the populace, has done exactly this: made capitulations to the grievances (yes, actually and humbly made personal sacrifices to those he ordinarily wouldn't from his usual habit and privilege of unchecked power) in exchange for peace in the land.

Look, I understand where you are coming from, but you sound cowardly.

You want to "talk" to these animals? Head on over there and start "talking".

Understand this - it's hard to talk when your head is separated from your body. "Peace in the land"? Tell me, if you don't mind, in your own best John Lennon style - when was the last time this world had "peace"?

 

[Slyhunter]

"KILL'EM ALL"!!

How, exactly? When new ones are recruited every day all over the world, how would you "kill 'em all"?

Burn a quran, when they come screaming to kill you, you know which ones to kill.
Wait for a parade in Palestine where they are taking knives to their own heads and drop napalm on them.
See a Demonstration, break out the machine guns.
Problem solved.

 

[Silhouette]

Look, I understand where you are coming from, but you sound cowardly.

You want to "talk" to these animals? Head on over there and start "talking".

Understand this - it's hard to talk when your head is separated from your body. "Peace in the land"? Tell me, if you don't mind, in your own best John Lennon style - when was the last time this world had "peace"?

Hmm.. 1. I don't care if I sound brave or cowardly. My ego isn't the topic of this conversation. 2. My talking to "these animals" would do absolutely nothing for world affairs. I'm not a member of the UN. I have no rank, no recognition and matter less than a grain of sand on the beach. The idea is to accomplish something. 3. I understand you are used to talking to someone who has something personally at stake in a given conversation. My not having a personal stake in this conversation makes it hard for you to focus on me instead of the question at hand...which is something I suspect you are wanting to do. 4. I am not under the impression that a John Lennon type utopia will exist as a result of any talks opened with the Islamic extremists. What I am aiming for is a temporary check at least on the escalation while both sides figure out what it is they want and are willing to give in order to get it.

In case the point of this thread has sailed over the top of your head, the idea is to get the Islamics extremists to find out what their own goals are, specifically and to enunciate them in a forum where they feel like someone is listening to them. If you can't understand how this might be helpful, then you don't belong in this conversation.

Burn a quran, when they come screaming to kill you, you know which ones to kill.
Wait for a parade in Palestine where they are taking knives to their own heads and drop napalm on them....See a Demonstration, break out the machine guns...Problem solved.

1. There was no quran burning at the Belgian airport. 2. The Belgian terrorists weren't in a parade. 3. The Belgian terrorists weren't demonstrating.

They were just a couple of regular dudes in regular dress, doing regular things at a regular public spot on a regular day of the week carrying massive explosives that blew a bunch of people up. So, your solutions won't work. These aren't like the Redcoats in the Revolutionary War who marched in a straight line at a given place at a given time. They're different.

 

[elektra]

Yeah Yeah I know. "We don't negotiate with terrorists". So to you I say, "Get back to me when you're exhausted playing whack-a-mole"..
Meanwhile in the real world, some of us are wondering what exactly it is these young men blowing themselves up actually want. I mean has anyone ever sat down with any of them and said "what exactly are your demands?"

Just putting it out there. Usually when people blow themselves up, they're upset about something. Say we ask them "what are you upset about?" Maybe interview one with his voice changed or just with a shroud blocking his face. "What are your demands?"

Would it really hurt to ask? Would it really hurt to listen? What's more painful, all these insane acts of violence or just setting national pride aside and saying "OK, you've got our attention". I mean it's obvious they have our attention. That cat has already been out of the bag for some time. So might as well acknowledge it.


Anyone who is familiar with "The Godfather" understands that what's going on isn't all that different from mob wars. You can hold out and act proud for only so long but when the horse's head winds up in your bed, you have to wake up and realize a truce might be the best way to go.

I know I'm going to get tons and tons of criticism for this idea but frankly I don't give a crap. You know how I am.

Silhouette, is a great example of what is wrong with the Left, they are completely ignorant of current events and history, as well as recent history. Any person who has done a tiny bit of reading about the Middle East will know exactly the demands of those who follow Islam, Sunni, Shia, or Wahhabi Sunni, they all demand the same, convert or die. It is their history, custom, tradition, Sharia law, the religion. Take you pic it all applies.

I guess Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State, never asked any Arab or Moslem leader what it is that they want?

Silhouette has not followed the news and never heard of the Fatwas?

Extreme ignorance is disgraceful, one should at least do a tiny bit of research instead of presuming just because they are ignorant, the whole world is as ignorant.

But, hey, let us start with Obama Bin Laden, if you like we can give you an education from the beginning, Bedouins in the Desert who have not changed their thinking, customs, traditions, since Jesus Christ walked the land.

Bin Laden's Fatwa

Bin Laden’s Fatwa

BY NEWS DESK August 23, 1996 at 12:21 PM EDT
Praise be to Allah, we seek His help and ask for his pardon. we take refuge in Allah from our wrongs and bad deeds. Who ever been guided by Allah will not be misled, and who ever has been misled, he will never be guided. I bear witness that there is no God except Allah-no associates with Him- and I bear witness that Muhammad is His slave and messenger.

{O you who believe! be careful of -your duty to- Allah with the proper care which is due to Him, and do not die unless you are Muslim} (Imraan; 3:102), {O people be careful of -your duty to- your Lord, Who created you from a single being and created its mate of the same -kind- and spread from these two, many men and women; and be careful of -your duty to- Allah , by whom you demand one of another -your rights-, and (be careful) to the ties of kinship; surely Allah ever watches over you} (An-Nisa; 4:1), {O you who believe! be careful- of your duty- to Allah and speak the right word; He will put your deeds into a right state for you, and forgive you your faults; and who ever obeys Allah and his Apostle, he indeed achieve a mighty success} (Al-Ahzab; 33:70-71).

Praise be to Allah, reporting the saying of the prophet Shu’aib: {I desire nothing but reform so far as I am able, and with non but Allah is the direction of my affair to the right and successful path; on him do I rely and to him do I turn} (Hud; 11:88).

Praise be to Allah, saying: {You are the best of the nations raised up for -the benefit of- men; you enjoin what is right and forbid the wrong and believe in Allah} (Aal-Imraan; 3:110). Allah’s blessing and salutations on His slave and messenger who said: (The people are close to an all encompassing punishment from Allah if they see the oppressor and fail to restrain him.)

It should not be hidden from you that the people of Islam had suffered from aggression, iniquity and injustice imposed on them by the Zionist-Crusaders alliance and their collaborators; to the extent that the Muslims blood became the cheapest and their wealth as loot in the hands of the enemies. Their blood was spilled in Palestine and Iraq. The horrifying pictures of the massacre of Qana, in Lebanon are still fresh in our memory. Massacres in Tajakestan, Burma, Cashmere, Assam, Philippine, Fatani, Ogadin, Somalia, Erithria, Chechnia and in Bosnia-Herzegovina took place, massacres that send shivers in the body and shake the conscience. All of this and the world watch and hear, and not only didn’t respond to these atrocities, but also with a clear conspiracy between the USA and its’ allies and under the cover of the iniquitous United Nations, the dispossessed people were even prevented from obtaining arms to defend themselves.

 

[RandallFlagg]

After reading your latest diatribe, I believe that you grew up watching "Fraiser". As I stated before, you head right over there and "talk" to the good folks of ISIS. Hell, you've convinced me that the Nevill Chamberlin way of cowardice just might convince those well-meaning individuals that perhaps, just perhaps, if we "give peace a chance" (who knows, maybe from your bed, with Yoko by your side) you can convince these folks to hold daisies in their blood-stained hands and sing "we are the world".

Buddy, I have fought in a war. I have killed. I KNOW what it's like and I wouldn't wish that on anyone, ever again. But if you let the "bullies on the block" continue running roughshod on the innocent - sooner or later, they come to your front door. What do YOU intend to do then? Invite them in for coffee?

 

[Theowl32]

What do they want? And when they chant that they want the world to convert to Islam and follow the literal interpretation of sharia law or die, what then?

Cause that is what they fucking want.

What, they need to make it more clear?

Don't be like the stupid fucking left who believe the west is to blame.

That is their intention. That is their only fucking intention.

Anymore questions?

 

[Silhouette]

Buddy, I have fought in a war. I have killed. I KNOW what it's like and I wouldn't wish that on anyone, ever again. But if you let the "bullies on the block" continue running roughshod on the innocent - sooner or later, they come to your front door. What do YOU intend to do then? Invite them in for coffee?

You've offered up nothing that will work. Surely you can see a problem with that? I'm not interested in the battle of egos you're trying to engage in as a strawman. I want only solutions that will, in the given situation, with all its parameters WORK. Gonna have to think your way out of the "I'm a courageous veteran and I know better!" box on this one...

Hating, strength, blind violence and all that "man 'o war" strategy playbook stuff just ain't working. You have to understand you aren't fighting men, you are fighting a plague of fear of a culture that is going to untold extremes to try to keep our depraved one from overtaking it. In doing so, they have become depraved. We are at least in agreement about that.

Since it is a plague that's spreading faster than your manliness can keep up with it, you have to come at it differently. Are you afraid if you ask them what they want, they might say "for your culture to rein in its depravity"...cuz you might not have as easy access to "Asian Ass Porn" on your PC? Or because Caitlyn Jenner can't parade around as a woman who is really a dude with mental issues...all as "the new world normal"?.. Would you have to admit that American limitless mental illness extremes forced upon the rest of the world "as normal" actually has unforeseen consequences?

 

[cereal_killer]

the idea is to get the Islamics extremists to find out what their own goals are, specifically and to enunciate them in a forum where they feel like someone is listening to them

For cripes sake

 

[Syriusly]

It's clear what they want. They've been saying it for years: stay out of their country and quit bombing them. Now its too late, our shitty foreign policy created this whole mess.

It's now a conundrum. The more we bomb and attack them, the more it only serves as a recruitment tool. It reflects exactly what they are being told. There's a war against Islam. Every time a bomb drops they need only to say "See?" Doing nothing at this point won't solve it either. They are hell bent on taking over the world.

It's a giant mess and the US doesn't have the stomach to do what needs to be done to beat them into submission. We cannot win this war by waging war the way we do. This is a fact.

You're funny. On the one hand you accurately identify the root of the problem: That the US's foreign blood-for-oil Cheney bullshit is what got us to where we are today. So in saying that, you are identifying the angry arabs as the victims of US bullshit.

Then, in the very next breath you say "what needs to be done is beat them into submission!". That's like saying "yeah, we gave the Sioux smallpox infected blankets and now they're lashing back and scalping the pioneers trying to make it out to Oregon...sneaking in the night with the advantage of invisibility and surprise...then your "solution" for that would be "to beat the crap out of the Sioux some more".

People just need to realize what logic is. People need to pay attention to what logic is.

No no no...not beat the crap out of them some more. Annihilate them as in decimate them as in totally destroy thousands upon thousands of them in a short period of time. Annihilate them so badly that their will to fight will be gone and the 'few' who remain will be terrified to even join the cause.

How?

Do you think we should do as someone else suggested- just nuke the entire Middle East?

Carpet bomb all of Syria and Iraq?

Carpet bomb anywhere an ISIS member has been sighted- from Somalia to Afghanistan?

Carpet bomb Brussels?

Here's how.
1. Fire the current Admirals/Generals
2. Replace them with actual war fighters
3. Get the bureaucrats completely out of the way
4. Remove all ROE and let Military decide if there will be ROE
5. Give Military any and all requested equipment (including troops)
6. Let the military wage war on THEIR OWN terms.

To sum it all up, unleash the dogs of war and let the war fighters do their job however they see fit. No more bureaucrats getting in the way of how the military wages war. It will be ugly, it will be barbaric and the atrocities will be horrific, but that's war. Time to instill fear in the enemy. So much fear that they lose their will to fight completely. Massive loss of life in a short period of time tends to do that to troops. That's how you win. They take one, we take 1,500

LOL

• So you want to fire every Admiral and General that actually has experience managing a war.....so
• You can have 'actual war fighters'- and who are these? Some PFC? Maybe a Master Sergeant?
  
• You want the military to operate without any civilian control....that has turned out so well for so many countries.....
• No more 'rules of engagement'......who in the military will decide about the ROE?
  
• Certainly the military should have the equipment that they need- you might want to talk to Congress about that.....
• What if the military decides the best course is not to wage war in the Middle East?

 

[Syriusly]

It's clear what they want. They've been saying it for years: stay out of their country and quit bombing them. Now its too late, our shitty foreign policy created this whole mess.

It's now a conundrum. The more we bomb and attack them, the more it only serves as a recruitment tool. It reflects exactly what they are being told. There's a war against Islam. Every time a bomb drops they need only to say "See?" Doing nothing at this point won't solve it either. They are hell bent on taking over the world.

It's a giant mess and the US doesn't have the stomach to do what needs to be done to beat them into submission. We cannot win this war by waging war the way we do. This is a fact.

Dude, ISIS has killed other Muslims as well as Christians...did those Muslims bomb them? ISIS grew to power BECAUSE we allowed them to be seen as "winning" a war against the West...THAT is what they used a recruiting tool not that we bombed them!

The group most victimized by ISIS are Muslims- ISIS has murdered more Muslims by a vast degree- than Christians or Jews or other groups.

 

[Syriusly]

Buddy, I have fought in a war. I have killed. I KNOW what it's like and I wouldn't wish that on anyone, ever again. But if you let the "bullies on the block" continue running roughshod on the innocent - sooner or later, they come to your front door. What do YOU intend to do then? Invite them in for coffee?

You've offered up nothing that will work.

Frankly Silhouette you have offered up nothing that will work.

 

[Syriusly]

It's clear what they want. They've been saying it for years: stay out of their country and quit bombing them. Now its too late, our shitty foreign policy created this whole mess.

It's now a conundrum. The more we bomb and attack them, the more it only serves as a recruitment tool. It reflects exactly what they are being told. There's a war against Islam. Every time a bomb drops they need only to say "See?" Doing nothing at this point won't solve it either. They are hell bent on taking over the world.

It's a giant mess and the US doesn't have the stomach to do what needs to be done to beat them into submission. We cannot win this war by waging war the way we do. This is a fact.

You're funny. On the one hand you accurately identify the root of the problem: That the US's foreign blood-for-oil Cheney bullshit is what got us to where we are today. So in saying that, you are identifying the angry arabs as the victims of US bullshit.

Then, in the very next breath you say "what needs to be done is beat them into submission!". That's like saying "yeah, we gave the Sioux smallpox infected blankets and now they're lashing back and scalping the pioneers trying to make it out to Oregon...sneaking in the night with the advantage of invisibility and surprise...then your "solution" for that would be "to beat the crap out of the Sioux some more".

People just need to realize what logic is. People need to pay attention to what logic is.

No no no...not beat the crap out of them some more. Annihilate them as in decimate them as in totally destroy thousands upon thousands of them in a short period of time. Annihilate them so badly that their will to fight will be gone and the 'few' who remain will be terrified to even join the cause.

How?

Do you think we should do as someone else suggested- just nuke the entire Middle East?

Carpet bomb all of Syria and Iraq?

Carpet bomb anywhere an ISIS member has been sighted- from Somalia to Afghanistan?

Carpet bomb Brussels?

Here's how.
1. Fire the current Admirals/Generals
2. Replace them with actual war fighters
3. Get the bureaucrats completely out of the way
4. Remove all ROE and let Military decide if there will be ROE
5. Give Military any and all requested equipment (including troops)
6. Let the military wage war on THEIR OWN terms.

To sum it all up, unleash the dogs of war and let the war fighters do their job however they see fit. No more bureaucrats getting in the way of how the military wages war. It will be ugly, it will be barbaric and the atrocities will be horrific, but that's war. Time to instill fear in the enemy. So much fear that they lose their will to fight completely. Massive loss of life in a short period of time tends to do that to troops. That's how you win. They take one, we take 1,500

Were it up to me - I would send a flight of 15 B-52s (or B2s) to Racca, Syria. When they were finished, there would not be one living soul left alive. Let's get one thing straight. There are NO civilians in Racca. Any human being alive there is in full support of ISIS..

Says who?

What makes you an expert on Racca and the situation every single person in Racca?

IF you just want to admit that you want to ignore civilian casualties then just admit it.

But your suggestion would just drive recruits to ISIS.

 

[RandallFlagg]

You're funny. On the one hand you accurately identify the root of the problem: That the US's foreign blood-for-oil Cheney bullshit is what got us to where we are today. So in saying that, you are identifying the angry arabs as the victims of US bullshit.

Then, in the very next breath you say "what needs to be done is beat them into submission!". That's like saying "yeah, we gave the Sioux smallpox infected blankets and now they're lashing back and scalping the pioneers trying to make it out to Oregon...sneaking in the night with the advantage of invisibility and surprise...then your "solution" for that would be "to beat the crap out of the Sioux some more".

People just need to realize what logic is. People need to pay attention to what logic is.

No no no...not beat the crap out of them some more. Annihilate them as in decimate them as in totally destroy thousands upon thousands of them in a short period of time. Annihilate them so badly that their will to fight will be gone and the 'few' who remain will be terrified to even join the cause.

How?

Do you think we should do as someone else suggested- just nuke the entire Middle East?

Carpet bomb all of Syria and Iraq?

Carpet bomb anywhere an ISIS member has been sighted- from Somalia to Afghanistan?

Carpet bomb Brussels?

Here's how.
1. Fire the current Admirals/Generals
2. Replace them with actual war fighters
3. Get the bureaucrats completely out of the way
4. Remove all ROE and let Military decide if there will be ROE
5. Give Military any and all requested equipment (including troops)
6. Let the military wage war on THEIR OWN terms.

To sum it all up, unleash the dogs of war and let the war fighters do their job however they see fit. No more bureaucrats getting in the way of how the military wages war. It will be ugly, it will be barbaric and the atrocities will be horrific, but that's war. Time to instill fear in the enemy. So much fear that they lose their will to fight completely. Massive loss of life in a short period of time tends to do that to troops. That's how you win. They take one, we take 1,500

Were it up to me - I would send a flight of 15 B-52s (or B2s) to Racca, Syria. When they were finished, there would not be one living soul left alive. Let's get one thing straight. There are NO civilians in Racca. Any human being alive there is in full support of ISIS..

Says who?

What makes you an expert on Racca and the situation every single person in Racca?

IF you just want to admit that you want to ignore civilian casualties then just admit it.

But your suggestion would just drive recruits to ISIS.

Yeah, hell, you're probably right. Shoot - why not just allow ISIS to take the entire Middle East? Then, How about we just allow ISIS to take Europe? Hell, no big deal, right?

You sound like the kind of clown that was alive pre-WWII who, at some New York cocktail party who said - "What does it matter to us?" "Just leave Adolph alone! He's not threatening us!"

You'd do well to understand that civilian casualties happen in war. But ISIS wouldn't kill civilians, right? Hell, they wouldn't hide behind civilians, right?

How did the US bring the war to a quicker end in Germany? Ask the civilians who lived in Dresden....oh....that's right.....nevermind.

 

[RandallFlagg]

It's clear what they want. They've been saying it for years: stay out of their country and quit bombing them. Now its too late, our shitty foreign policy created this whole mess.

It's now a conundrum. The more we bomb and attack them, the more it only serves as a recruitment tool. It reflects exactly what they are being told. There's a war against Islam. Every time a bomb drops they need only to say "See?" Doing nothing at this point won't solve it either. They are hell bent on taking over the world.

It's a giant mess and the US doesn't have the stomach to do what needs to be done to beat them into submission. We cannot win this war by waging war the way we do. This is a fact.

You're funny. On the one hand you accurately identify the root of the problem: That the US's foreign blood-for-oil Cheney bullshit is what got us to where we are today. So in saying that, you are identifying the angry arabs as the victims of US bullshit.

Then, in the very next breath you say "what needs to be done is beat them into submission!". That's like saying "yeah, we gave the Sioux smallpox infected blankets and now they're lashing back and scalping the pioneers trying to make it out to Oregon...sneaking in the night with the advantage of invisibility and surprise...then your "solution" for that would be "to beat the crap out of the Sioux some more".

People just need to realize what logic is. People need to pay attention to what logic is.

No no no...not beat the crap out of them some more. Annihilate them as in decimate them as in totally destroy thousands upon thousands of them in a short period of time. Annihilate them so badly that their will to fight will be gone and the 'few' who remain will be terrified to even join the cause.

How?

Do you think we should do as someone else suggested- just nuke the entire Middle East?

Carpet bomb all of Syria and Iraq?

Carpet bomb anywhere an ISIS member has been sighted- from Somalia to Afghanistan?

Carpet bomb Brussels?

Here's how.
1. Fire the current Admirals/Generals
2. Replace them with actual war fighters
3. Get the bureaucrats completely out of the way
4. Remove all ROE and let Military decide if there will be ROE
5. Give Military any and all requested equipment (including troops)
6. Let the military wage war on THEIR OWN terms.

To sum it all up, unleash the dogs of war and let the war fighters do their job however they see fit. No more bureaucrats getting in the way of how the military wages war. It will be ugly, it will be barbaric and the atrocities will be horrific, but that's war. Time to instill fear in the enemy. So much fear that they lose their will to fight completely. Massive loss of life in a short period of time tends to do that to troops. That's how you win. They take one, we take 1,500

LOL

• So you want to fire every Admiral and General that actually has experience managing a war.....so
• You can have 'actual war fighters'- and who are these? Some PFC? Maybe a Master Sergeant?
  
• You want the military to operate without any civilian control....that has turned out so well for so many countries.....
• No more 'rules of engagement'......who in the military will decide about the ROE?
  
• Certainly the military should have the equipment that they need- you might want to talk to Congress about that.....
• What if the military decides the best course is not to wage war in the Middle East?

Inasmuch as Obama has gutted the military of it's higher leadership - he has already fired nearly all the field commanders that may have had have combat experience:



Here is the list of our military elite who have been purged or fired under Obama:
Commanding Generals fired:


· General John R. Allen-U.S. Marines Commander International Security Assistance Force [ISAF] (Nov 2012)
· Major General Ralph Baker (2 Star)-U.S. Army Commander of the Combined Joint Task Force Horn in Africa (April 2013)
· Major General Michael Carey (2 Star)-U.S. Air Force Commander of the 20th US Air Force in charge of 9,600 people and 450 Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles (Oct 2013)
· Colonel James Christmas-U.S. Marines Commander 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit & Commander Special-Purpose Marine Air-Ground Task Force Crisis Response Unit (July 2013)
· Major General Peter Fuller-U.S. Army Commander in Afghanistan (May 2011)
· Major General Charles M.M. Gurganus-U.S. Marine Corps Regional Commander of SW and I Marine Expeditionary Force in Afghanistan (Oct 2013)
· General Carter F. Ham-U.S. Army African Command (Oct 2013)
· Lieutenant General David H. Huntoon (3 Star), Jr.-U.S. Army 58th Superintendent of the US Military Academy at West Point, NY (2013)
· Command Sergeant Major Don B Jordan-U.S. Army 143rd Expeditionary Sustainment Command (suspended Oct 2013)
· General James Mattis-U.S. Marines Chief of CentCom (May 2013)
· Colonel Daren Margolin-U.S. Marine in charge of Quantico's Security Battalion (Oct 2013)
· General Stanley McChrystal-U.S. Army Commander Afghanistan (June 2010)
· General David D. McKiernan-U.S. Army Commander Afghanistan (2009)
· General David Petraeus-Director of CIA from September 2011 to November 2012 & U.S. Army Commander International Security Assistance Force [ISAF] and Commander U.S. Forces Afghanistan [USFOR-A] (Nov 2012)
· Brigadier General Bryan Roberts-U.S. Army Commander 2nd Brigade (May 2013)
· Major General Gregg A. Sturdevant-U.S. Marine Corps Director of Strategic Planning and Policy for the U.S. Pacific Command & Commander of Aviation Wing at Camp Bastion, Afghanistan (Sept 2013)
· Colonel Eric Tilley-U.S. Army Commander of Garrison Japan (Nov 2013)
· Brigadier General Bryan Wampler-U.S. Army Commanding General of 143rd Expeditionary Sustainment Command of the 1st Theater Sustainment Command [TSC] (suspended Oct 2013)

Commanding Admirals fired:
· Rear Admiral Charles Gaouette-U.S. Navy Commander John C. Stennis Carrier Strike Group Three (Oct 2012)
· Vice Admiral Tim Giardina(3 Star, demoted to 2 Star)-U.S. Navy Deputy Commander of the US Strategic Command, Commander of the Submarine Group Trident, Submarine Group 9 and Submarine Group 10 (Oct 2013)

Naval Officers fired: (All in 2011)
· Captain David Geisler-U.S. Navy Commander Task Force 53 in Bahrain (Oct 2011)
· Commander Laredo Bell-U.S. Navy Commander Naval Support Activity Saratoga Springs, NY (Aug 2011)
· Lieutenant Commander Kurt Boenisch-Executive Officer amphibious transport dock Ponce (Apr 2011)
· Commander Nathan Borchers-U.S. Navy Commander destroyer Stout (Mar 2011)
· Commander Robert Brown-U.S. Navy Commander Beachmaster Unit 2 Fort Story, VA (Aug 2011)
· Commander Andrew Crowe-Executive Officer Navy Region Center Singapore (Apr 2011)
· Captain Robert Gamberg-Executive Officer carrier Dwight D. Eisenhower (Jun 2011)
· Captain Rex Guinn-U.S. Navy Commander Navy Legal Service office Japan (Feb 2011)
· Commander Kevin Harms- U.S. Navy Commander Strike Fighter Squadron 137 aboard the aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln (Mar 2011)
· Lieutenant Commander Martin Holguin-U.S. Navy Commander mine countermeasures Fearless (Oct 2011)
· Captain Owen Honors-U.S. Navy Commander aircraft carrier USS Enterprise (Jan 2011)
· Captain Donald Hornbeck-U.S. Navy Commander Destroyer Squadron 1 San Diego
(Apr 2011)
· Rear Admiral Ron Horton-U.S. Navy Commander Logistics Group, Western Pacific
(Mar 2011)
· Commander Etta Jones-U.S. Navy Commander amphibious transport dock Ponce (Apr 2011)
· Commander Ralph Jones-Executive Officer amphibious transport dock Green Bay (Jul 2011)
· Commander Jonathan Jackson-U.S. Navy Commander Electronic Attack Squadron 134, deployed aboard carrier Carl Vinson (Dec 2011)
· Captain Eric Merrill-U.S. Navy Commander submarine Emory S. Land (Jul 2011)
· Captain William Mosk-U.S. Navy Commander Naval Station Rota, U.S. Navy Commander Naval Activities Spain (Apr 2011)
· Commander Timothy Murphy-U.S. Navy Commander Electronic Attack Squadron 129 at Naval Air Station Whidbey Island, WA (Apr 2011)
· Commander Joseph Nosse-U.S. Navy Commander ballistic-missile submarine Kentucky (Oct 2011)
· Commander Mark Olson-U.S. Navy Commander destroyer The Sullivans FL (Sep 2011)
· Commander John Pethel-Executive Officer amphibious transport dock New York (Dec 2011)
· Commander Karl Pugh-U.S. Navy Commander Electronic Attack Squadron 141 Whidbey Island, WA (Jul 2011)
· Commander Jason Strength-U.S. Navy Commander of Navy Recruiting District Nashville, TN (Jul 2011)
· Captain Greg Thomas-U.S. Navy Commander Norfolk Naval Shipyard (May 2011)
· Commander Mike Varney-U.S. Navy Commander attack submarine Connecticut (Jun 2011)
· Commander Jay Wylie-U.S. Navy Commander destroyer Momsen (Apr 2011)
Naval Officers fired: (All in 2012):
· Commander Alan C. Aber-Executive Officer Helicopter Maritime Strike Squadron 71 (July 2012)
· Commander Derick Armstrong- U.S. Navy Commander missile destroyer USS The Sullivans (May 2012)
· Commander Martin Arriola- U.S. Navy Commander destroyer USS Porter (Aug 2012)
· Captain Antonio Cardoso- U.S. Navy Commander Training Support Center San Diego (Sep 2012)
· Captain James CoBell- U.S. Navy Commander Oceana Naval Air Station's Fleet Readiness Center Mid-Atlantic (Sep 2012)
· Captain Joseph E. Darlak- U.S. Navy Commander frigate USS Vandegrift (Nov 2012)
· Captain Daniel Dusek-U.S. Navy Commander USS Bonhomme
· Commander David Faught-Executive Officer destroyer Chung-Hoon (Sep 2012)
· Commander Franklin Fernandez- U.S. Navy Commander Naval Mobile Construction Battalion 24 (Aug 2012)
· Commander Ray Hartman- U.S. Navy Commander Amphibious dock-landing ship Fort McHenry (Nov 2012)
· Commander Shelly Hakspiel-Executive Officer Navy Drug Screening Lab San Diego (May 2012)
· Commander Jon Haydel- U.S. Navy Commander USS San Diego (Mar 2012)
· Commander Diego Hernandez- U.S. Navy Commander ballistic-missile submarine USS Wyoming (Feb 2012)
· Commander Lee Hoey- U.S. Navy Commander Drug Screening Laboratory, San Diego (May 2012)
· Commander Ivan Jimenez-Executive Officer frigate Vandegrift (Nov 2012)
· Commander Dennis Klein- U.S. Navy Commander submarine USS Columbia (May 2012)
· Captain Chuck Litchfield- U.S. Navy Commander assault ship USS Essex (Jun 2012)
· Captain Marcia Kim Lyons- U.S. Navy Commander Naval Health Clinic New England (Apr 2012)
· Captain Robert Marin- U.S. Navy Commander cruiser USS Cowpens (Feb 2012)
· Captain Sean McDonell- U.S. Navy Commander Seabee reserve unit Naval Mobile Construction Battalion 14 FL (Nov 2012)
· Commander Corrine Parker- U.S. Navy Commander Fleet Logistics Support Squadron 1 (Apr 2012)
· Captain Liza Raimondo- U.S. Navy Commander Naval Health Clinic Patuxent River, MD (Jun 2012)
· Captain Jeffrey Riedel- Program manager, Littoral Combat Ship program (Jan 2012)
· Commander Sara Santoski- U.S. Navy Commander Helicopter Mine Countermeasures Squadron 15 (Sep 2012)
· Commander Kyle G. Strudthoff-Executive Officer Helicopter Sea Combat Squadron 25 (Sep 2012)
· Commander Sheryl Tannahill- U.S. Navy Commander Navy Operational Support Center [NOSC] Nashville, TN (Sep 2012)
· Commander Michael Ward- U.S. Navy Commander submarine USS Pittsburgh (Aug 2012)
· Captain Michael Wiegand- U.S. Navy Commander Southwest Regional Maintenance Center (Nov 2012)
· Captain Ted Williams- U.S. Navy Commander amphibious command ship Mount Whitney (Nov 2012)
· Commander Jeffrey Wissel- U.S. Navy Commander of Fleet Air Reconnaissance Squadron 1 (Feb 2012)

Naval Officers fired: (All in 2013):
· Lieutenant Commander Lauren Allen-Executive Officer submarine Jacksonville (Feb 2013)
· Reserve Captain Jay Bowman-U.S. Navy Commander Navy Operational Support Center [NOSC] Fort Dix, NJ (Mar 2013)
· Captain William Cogar-U.S. Navy Commander hospital ship Mercy's medical treatment facility (Sept 2013)
· Commander Steve Fuller-Executive Officer frigate Kauffman (Mar 2013)
· Captain Shawn Hendricks-Program Manager for naval enterprise IT networks (June 2013)
· Captain David Hunter-U.S. Navy Commander of Maritime Expeditionary Security Squadron 12 & Coastal Riverine Group 2 (Feb 2013)
· Captain Eric Johnson-U.S. Navy Chief of Military Entrance Processing Command at Great Lakes Naval Training Center, IL (2013)
· Captain Devon Jones-U.S. Navy Commander Naval Air Facility El Centro, CA (July 2013)
· Captain Kevin Knoop-U.S. Navy Commander hospital ship Comfort's medical treatment facility (Aug 2013)
· Lieutenant Commander Jack O'Neill-U.S. Navy Commander Operational Support Center Rock Island, IL (Mar 2013)
· Commander Allen Maestas-Executive Officer Beachmaster Unit 1 (May 2013)
· Commander Luis Molina-U.S. Navy Commander submarine Pasadena (Jan 2013)
· Commander James Pickens-Executive Officer frigate Gary (Feb 2013)
· Lieutenant Commander Mark Rice-U.S. Navy Commander Mine Countermeasures ship Guardian (Apr 2013)
· Commander Michael Runkle-U.S. Navy Commander of Mobile Diving and Salvage Unit 2 (May 2013)
· Commander Jason Stapleton-Executive Office Patrol Squadron 4 in Hawaii (Mar 2013)
· Commander Nathan Sukols-U.S. Navy Commander submarine Jacksonville (Feb 2013)
· Lieutenant Daniel Tyler-Executive Officer Mine Countermeasures ship Guardian (Apr 2013)
· Commander Edward White-U.S. Navy Commander Strike Fighter Squadron 106 (Aug 2013)
· Captain Jeffrey Winter-U.S. Navy Commander of Carrier Air Wing 17 (Sept 2013)
· Commander Thomas Winter-U.S. Navy Commander submarine Montpelier (Jan 2013)
· Commander Corey Wofford- U.S. Navy Commander frigate Kauffman (Feb 2013)


List Of Military Elite Purged
And Fired Under Obama

Compiled By General Paul Vallely
3-17-14


And please take note - this list is ONLY the Navy and Marine list. A partial list of Air Force and Army command.

 

[easyt65]

You seriously haven't figured out yet what Islamic Extremists want?

They want to kill all Non-Muslims.

It's not rocket science.

 

[Contumacious]

You seriously haven't figured out yet what Islamic Extremists want?

They want to kill all Non-Muslims.

It's not rocket science.

Indeed they do.

They want to kill - RETALIATE - against those who have been murdering them and their families since 1925.


.