CDZ How The Second Amendment Comes From Something That Happened In The 2nd Century BCE

[progressive hunter]

Somebody already beat me to the Heller argument. That being said, the whole idea of a "well regulated militia" has already been differentiated. And it doesn't apply. It's one of the reasons that the modern day National Guard doesn't like being associated with the word "militia". I support any law abiding citizens right to own, operate, and carry a firearm. But gun regulations aren't gun grabs. I see nothing wrong with a national gun registry, closing all the gunshow loopholes, forcing private sales to either be handled through a licensed firearms dealer or pass registration in your state, and expanded background checks. These are just common sense.

So, About That "Well-Regulated Militia" Part of the Constitution

Bay Area demonstrations by right-wing groups scheduled over the weekend fizzled in face of massive opposition protests, defusing fears that Charlottesville-like violence could erupt in San Francisco and Berkeley. Indeed, protests in San Francisco were peaceful, and the few scuffles that did...

alumni.berkeley.edu

The Germans, French, Russians, Australians, Canadians, British, New Zealand didn't see anything wrong with a national gun registry either.....in fact, they liked it so much, they used it when they decided to ban and confiscate guns...



There is no gun show loophole.

Registration is the goal, so you can later ban and confiscate without having to worry about people hiding their guns...which is the only reason you want universal background checks....it is the trojan horse for gun registration.

While it may be somewhat misnamed, the gun show loophole does indeed exist.

What Is the Gun Show Loophole and Why Does it Exist?

Gun sold or transferred by private gun owners are not regulated by law in many states, creating a loophole in gun control.

www.thoughtco.com

I see constant wailing on this board about the gun violence in Chicago when the city is supposed to be a gun free zone.
Well...where do the guns come from? And how do they get there? If you look at this article, you'll notice the states that
have "closed" that loophole and those that haven't. You will also find that the most of the guns that make it into Chicago,
come from the states that still have that loophole open.

There is nothing wrong with registration. We demand that cars are registered.
And your gun "ban" argument in these countries doesn't quite hold water. I just took Germany as an example.
In fact, I see a lot common sense in these requirements. Some of them wouldn't fly here and I would never support a gun grab (Wouldn't happen anyway).

Where does Germany stand on gun control? – DW – 07/14/2024

In Germany, buying, possessing and using guns is strictly regulated. DW looks at the details of gun ownership laws.

www.dw.com

its not a loophole,, its the right of every american do do business with another,,,

 

[2aguy]

Somebody already beat me to the Heller argument. That being said, the whole idea of a "well regulated militia" has already been differentiated. And it doesn't apply. It's one of the reasons that the modern day National Guard doesn't like being associated with the word "militia". I support any law abiding citizens right to own, operate, and carry a firearm. But gun regulations aren't gun grabs. I see nothing wrong with a national gun registry, closing all the gunshow loopholes, forcing private sales to either be handled through a licensed firearms dealer or pass registration in your state, and expanded background checks. These are just common sense.

So, About That "Well-Regulated Militia" Part of the Constitution

Bay Area demonstrations by right-wing groups scheduled over the weekend fizzled in face of massive opposition protests, defusing fears that Charlottesville-like violence could erupt in San Francisco and Berkeley. Indeed, protests in San Francisco were peaceful, and the few scuffles that did...

alumni.berkeley.edu

The Germans, French, Russians, Australians, Canadians, British, New Zealand didn't see anything wrong with a national gun registry either.....in fact, they liked it so much, they used it when they decided to ban and confiscate guns...



There is no gun show loophole.

Registration is the goal, so you can later ban and confiscate without having to worry about people hiding their guns...which is the only reason you want universal background checks....it is the trojan horse for gun registration.

While it may be somewhat misnamed, the gun show loophole does indeed exist.

What Is the Gun Show Loophole and Why Does it Exist?

Gun sold or transferred by private gun owners are not regulated by law in many states, creating a loophole in gun control.

www.thoughtco.com

I see constant wailing on this board about the gun violence in Chicago when the city is supposed to be a gun free zone.
Well...where do the guns come from? And how do they get there? If you look at this article, you'll notice the states that
have "closed" that loophole and those that haven't. You will also find that the most of the guns that make it into Chicago,
come from the states that still have that loophole open.

There is nothing wrong with registration. We demand that cars are registered.
And your gun "ban" argument in these countries doesn't quite hold water. I just took Germany as an example.
In fact, I see a lot common sense in these requirements. Some of them wouldn't fly here and I would never support a gun grab (Wouldn't happen anyway).

Where does Germany stand on gun control? – DW – 07/14/2024

In Germany, buying, possessing and using guns is strictly regulated. DW looks at the details of gun ownership laws.

www.dw.com

And yet....you guys can never explain how it is that the states where the guns come from....have lower gun crime and gun murder rates than Chicago.....

How is that...if guns are the problem and not the policies of the democrat party that has complete control of chicago...since 1932?

The democrat party in Chicago creates over 95% of the gun crime....by releasing violent, known, repeat gun offenders over and over again.......that is the problem, not guns, and not law abiding gun owners.

The shooters in these crimes? Have long histories of violence and crime, multiple felonies....and they are released on Bond, often home confinement, and then they go out and shoot more people.....all because the democrat party, not guns, allows them to be free....

So sell the ******** about guns from other states....those states do not have the gun crime rate that Chicago does.....and so that isn't the problem....

 

[2aguy]

Somebody already beat me to the Heller argument. That being said, the whole idea of a "well regulated militia" has already been differentiated. And it doesn't apply. It's one of the reasons that the modern day National Guard doesn't like being associated with the word "militia". I support any law abiding citizens right to own, operate, and carry a firearm. But gun regulations aren't gun grabs. I see nothing wrong with a national gun registry, closing all the gunshow loopholes, forcing private sales to either be handled through a licensed firearms dealer or pass registration in your state, and expanded background checks. These are just common sense.

So, About That "Well-Regulated Militia" Part of the Constitution

Bay Area demonstrations by right-wing groups scheduled over the weekend fizzled in face of massive opposition protests, defusing fears that Charlottesville-like violence could erupt in San Francisco and Berkeley. Indeed, protests in San Francisco were peaceful, and the few scuffles that did...

alumni.berkeley.edu

The Germans, French, Russians, Australians, Canadians, British, New Zealand didn't see anything wrong with a national gun registry either.....in fact, they liked it so much, they used it when they decided to ban and confiscate guns...



There is no gun show loophole.

Registration is the goal, so you can later ban and confiscate without having to worry about people hiding their guns...which is the only reason you want universal background checks....it is the trojan horse for gun registration.

While it may be somewhat misnamed, the gun show loophole does indeed exist.

What Is the Gun Show Loophole and Why Does it Exist?

Gun sold or transferred by private gun owners are not regulated by law in many states, creating a loophole in gun control.

www.thoughtco.com

I see constant wailing on this board about the gun violence in Chicago when the city is supposed to be a gun free zone.
Well...where do the guns come from? And how do they get there? If you look at this article, you'll notice the states that
have "closed" that loophole and those that haven't. You will also find that the most of the guns that make it into Chicago,
come from the states that still have that loophole open.

There is nothing wrong with registration. We demand that cars are registered.
And your gun "ban" argument in these countries doesn't quite hold water. I just took Germany as an example.
In fact, I see a lot common sense in these requirements. Some of them wouldn't fly here and I would never support a gun grab (Wouldn't happen anyway).

Where does Germany stand on gun control? – DW – 07/14/2024

In Germany, buying, possessing and using guns is strictly regulated. DW looks at the details of gun ownership laws.

www.dw.com

Registration is dumb......the only reason the gun control activists want it? So that when they finally get the power they want, they will know where the guns are when they ban and confiscate them....

Do you understand that this isn't a fantasy? That we know history.....?

Britain, France, Germany, Russia, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, first registered guns....then, later banned and confiscated them.....using your stupid excuse......hey, it's no big deal....we just want to know who has these guns, we want to keep people safe....

Then, later, after registration...they banned and confiscated the guns...

Again, sell the ******** to uninformed people.....

 

[JackOfNoTrades]

Somebody already beat me to the Heller argument. That being said, the whole idea of a "well regulated militia" has already been differentiated. And it doesn't apply. It's one of the reasons that the modern day National Guard doesn't like being associated with the word "militia". I support any law abiding citizens right to own, operate, and carry a firearm. But gun regulations aren't gun grabs. I see nothing wrong with a national gun registry, closing all the gunshow loopholes, forcing private sales to either be handled through a licensed firearms dealer or pass registration in your state, and expanded background checks. These are just common sense.

So, About That "Well-Regulated Militia" Part of the Constitution

Bay Area demonstrations by right-wing groups scheduled over the weekend fizzled in face of massive opposition protests, defusing fears that Charlottesville-like violence could erupt in San Francisco and Berkeley. Indeed, protests in San Francisco were peaceful, and the few scuffles that did...

alumni.berkeley.edu

The Germans, French, Russians, Australians, Canadians, British, New Zealand didn't see anything wrong with a national gun registry either.....in fact, they liked it so much, they used it when they decided to ban and confiscate guns...



There is no gun show loophole.

Registration is the goal, so you can later ban and confiscate without having to worry about people hiding their guns...which is the only reason you want universal background checks....it is the trojan horse for gun registration.

While it may be somewhat misnamed, the gun show loophole does indeed exist.

What Is the Gun Show Loophole and Why Does it Exist?

Gun sold or transferred by private gun owners are not regulated by law in many states, creating a loophole in gun control.

www.thoughtco.com

I see constant wailing on this board about the gun violence in Chicago when the city is supposed to be a gun free zone.
Well...where do the guns come from? And how do they get there? If you look at this article, you'll notice the states that
have "closed" that loophole and those that haven't. You will also find that the most of the guns that make it into Chicago,
come from the states that still have that loophole open.

There is nothing wrong with registration. We demand that cars are registered.
And your gun "ban" argument in these countries doesn't quite hold water. I just took Germany as an example.
In fact, I see a lot common sense in these requirements. Some of them wouldn't fly here and I would never support a gun grab (Wouldn't happen anyway).

Where does Germany stand on gun control? – DW – 07/14/2024

In Germany, buying, possessing and using guns is strictly regulated. DW looks at the details of gun ownership laws.

www.dw.com

its not a loophole,, its the right of every american do do business with another,,,

Of course. But in the case of a car, even if it is a clunker that you are selling to a neighbor for cash, there will still be a title transferred that will necessitate a change in registration, license plates, insurance (maybe).
Some entity will have a record of it Not so with guns. I have no problem with you selling your gun to your neighbor..as long as it goes through a licensed broker. Ergo, registration of sale and transfer of ownership...along with the requisite thorough
background check. Both cars and guns can kill people. Difference is, in almost all cases, we know who actually owns the car. Not so with guns.

 

[2aguy]

Somebody already beat me to the Heller argument. That being said, the whole idea of a "well regulated militia" has already been differentiated. And it doesn't apply. It's one of the reasons that the modern day National Guard doesn't like being associated with the word "militia". I support any law abiding citizens right to own, operate, and carry a firearm. But gun regulations aren't gun grabs. I see nothing wrong with a national gun registry, closing all the gunshow loopholes, forcing private sales to either be handled through a licensed firearms dealer or pass registration in your state, and expanded background checks. These are just common sense.

So, About That "Well-Regulated Militia" Part of the Constitution

Bay Area demonstrations by right-wing groups scheduled over the weekend fizzled in face of massive opposition protests, defusing fears that Charlottesville-like violence could erupt in San Francisco and Berkeley. Indeed, protests in San Francisco were peaceful, and the few scuffles that did...

alumni.berkeley.edu

The Germans, French, Russians, Australians, Canadians, British, New Zealand didn't see anything wrong with a national gun registry either.....in fact, they liked it so much, they used it when they decided to ban and confiscate guns...



There is no gun show loophole.

Registration is the goal, so you can later ban and confiscate without having to worry about people hiding their guns...which is the only reason you want universal background checks....it is the trojan horse for gun registration.

While it may be somewhat misnamed, the gun show loophole does indeed exist.

What Is the Gun Show Loophole and Why Does it Exist?

Gun sold or transferred by private gun owners are not regulated by law in many states, creating a loophole in gun control.

www.thoughtco.com

I see constant wailing on this board about the gun violence in Chicago when the city is supposed to be a gun free zone.
Well...where do the guns come from? And how do they get there? If you look at this article, you'll notice the states that
have "closed" that loophole and those that haven't. You will also find that the most of the guns that make it into Chicago,
come from the states that still have that loophole open.

There is nothing wrong with registration. We demand that cars are registered.
And your gun "ban" argument in these countries doesn't quite hold water. I just took Germany as an example.
In fact, I see a lot common sense in these requirements. Some of them wouldn't fly here and I would never support a gun grab (Wouldn't happen anyway).

Where does Germany stand on gun control? – DW – 07/14/2024

In Germany, buying, possessing and using guns is strictly regulated. DW looks at the details of gun ownership laws.

www.dw.com

Do you understand that there is no gun show loophole? That a private seller, selling a gun from their own belongings, can sell that gun anywhere they want? Not just at a gun show...without a background check......that isn't a Gun Show Loophole......since regular dealers at gun shows still have to do background checks..

That asshats like you keep calling it a Gun Show Loophole simply shows how dishonest you are and why you are not to be trusted...at all.

You guys want universal background checks as the Trojan Horse to get gun registration...which you know from Britain, France, Germany, Russia, New Zealand, Canada, Australia, is needed before you ban and confiscate guns.....

 

[JackOfNoTrades]

Somebody already beat me to the Heller argument. That being said, the whole idea of a "well regulated militia" has already been differentiated. And it doesn't apply. It's one of the reasons that the modern day National Guard doesn't like being associated with the word "militia". I support any law abiding citizens right to own, operate, and carry a firearm. But gun regulations aren't gun grabs. I see nothing wrong with a national gun registry, closing all the gunshow loopholes, forcing private sales to either be handled through a licensed firearms dealer or pass registration in your state, and expanded background checks. These are just common sense.

So, About That "Well-Regulated Militia" Part of the Constitution

Bay Area demonstrations by right-wing groups scheduled over the weekend fizzled in face of massive opposition protests, defusing fears that Charlottesville-like violence could erupt in San Francisco and Berkeley. Indeed, protests in San Francisco were peaceful, and the few scuffles that did...

alumni.berkeley.edu

The Germans, French, Russians, Australians, Canadians, British, New Zealand didn't see anything wrong with a national gun registry either.....in fact, they liked it so much, they used it when they decided to ban and confiscate guns...



There is no gun show loophole.

Registration is the goal, so you can later ban and confiscate without having to worry about people hiding their guns...which is the only reason you want universal background checks....it is the trojan horse for gun registration.

While it may be somewhat misnamed, the gun show loophole does indeed exist.

What Is the Gun Show Loophole and Why Does it Exist?

Gun sold or transferred by private gun owners are not regulated by law in many states, creating a loophole in gun control.

www.thoughtco.com

I see constant wailing on this board about the gun violence in Chicago when the city is supposed to be a gun free zone.
Well...where do the guns come from? And how do they get there? If you look at this article, you'll notice the states that
have "closed" that loophole and those that haven't. You will also find that the most of the guns that make it into Chicago,
come from the states that still have that loophole open.

There is nothing wrong with registration. We demand that cars are registered.
And your gun "ban" argument in these countries doesn't quite hold water. I just took Germany as an example.
In fact, I see a lot common sense in these requirements. Some of them wouldn't fly here and I would never support a gun grab (Wouldn't happen anyway).

Where does Germany stand on gun control? – DW – 07/14/2024

In Germany, buying, possessing and using guns is strictly regulated. DW looks at the details of gun ownership laws.

www.dw.com

And yet....you guys can never explain how it is that the states where the guns come from....have lower gun crime and gun murder rates than Chicago.....

How is that...if guns are the problem and not the policies of the democrat party that has complete control of chicago...since 1932?

The democrat party in Chicago creates over 95% of the gun crime....by releasing violent, known, repeat gun offenders over and over again.......that is the problem, not guns, and not law abiding gun owners.

The shooters in these crimes? Have long histories of violence and crime, multiple felonies....and they are released on Bond, often home confinement, and then they go out and shoot more people.....all because the democrat party, not guns, allows them to be free....

So sell the Bullshit about guns from other states....those states do not have the gun crime rate that Chicago does.....and so that isn't the problem....

Urban areas have larger populations and higher density. So, no, it's not hard to explain why those states have lower crime rates.
This is a debate so the last four sentences of your political rant are ignored.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Somebody already beat me to the Heller argument. That being said, the whole idea of a "well regulated militia" has already been differentiated. And it doesn't apply. It's one of the reasons that the modern day National Guard doesn't like being associated with the word "militia". I support any law abiding citizens right to own, operate, and carry a firearm. But gun regulations aren't gun grabs. I see nothing wrong with a national gun registry, closing all the gunshow loopholes, forcing private sales to either be handled through a licensed firearms dealer or pass registration in your state, and expanded background checks. These are just common sense.

So, About That "Well-Regulated Militia" Part of the Constitution

Bay Area demonstrations by right-wing groups scheduled over the weekend fizzled in face of massive opposition protests, defusing fears that Charlottesville-like violence could erupt in San Francisco and Berkeley. Indeed, protests in San Francisco were peaceful, and the few scuffles that did...

alumni.berkeley.edu

The Germans, French, Russians, Australians, Canadians, British, New Zealand didn't see anything wrong with a national gun registry either.....in fact, they liked it so much, they used it when they decided to ban and confiscate guns...



There is no gun show loophole.

Registration is the goal, so you can later ban and confiscate without having to worry about people hiding their guns...which is the only reason you want universal background checks....it is the trojan horse for gun registration.

While it may be somewhat misnamed, the gun show loophole does indeed exist.

What Is the Gun Show Loophole and Why Does it Exist?

Gun sold or transferred by private gun owners are not regulated by law in many states, creating a loophole in gun control.

www.thoughtco.com

I see constant wailing on this board about the gun violence in Chicago when the city is supposed to be a gun free zone.
Well...where do the guns come from? And how do they get there? If you look at this article, you'll notice the states that
have "closed" that loophole and those that haven't. You will also find that the most of the guns that make it into Chicago,
come from the states that still have that loophole open.

There is nothing wrong with registration. We demand that cars are registered.
And your gun "ban" argument in these countries doesn't quite hold water. I just took Germany as an example.
In fact, I see a lot common sense in these requirements. Some of them wouldn't fly here and I would never support a gun grab (Wouldn't happen anyway).

Where does Germany stand on gun control? – DW – 07/14/2024

In Germany, buying, possessing and using guns is strictly regulated. DW looks at the details of gun ownership laws.

www.dw.com

its not a loophole,, its the right of every american do do business with another,,,

Of course. But in the case of a car, even if it is a clunker that you are selling to a neighbor for cash, there will still be a title transferred that will necessitate a change in registration, license plates, insurance (maybe).
Some entity will have a record of it Not so with guns. I have no problem with you selling your gun to your neighbor..as long as it goes through a licensed broker. Ergo, registration of sale and transfer of ownership...along with the requisite thorough
background check. Both cars and guns can kill people. Difference is, in almost all cases, we know who actually owns the car. Not so with guns.

Driving a car is a privilege.

Owning a firearm is a right.

 

[2aguy]

Somebody already beat me to the Heller argument. That being said, the whole idea of a "well regulated militia" has already been differentiated. And it doesn't apply. It's one of the reasons that the modern day National Guard doesn't like being associated with the word "militia". I support any law abiding citizens right to own, operate, and carry a firearm. But gun regulations aren't gun grabs. I see nothing wrong with a national gun registry, closing all the gunshow loopholes, forcing private sales to either be handled through a licensed firearms dealer or pass registration in your state, and expanded background checks. These are just common sense.

So, About That "Well-Regulated Militia" Part of the Constitution

Bay Area demonstrations by right-wing groups scheduled over the weekend fizzled in face of massive opposition protests, defusing fears that Charlottesville-like violence could erupt in San Francisco and Berkeley. Indeed, protests in San Francisco were peaceful, and the few scuffles that did...

alumni.berkeley.edu

The Germans, French, Russians, Australians, Canadians, British, New Zealand didn't see anything wrong with a national gun registry either.....in fact, they liked it so much, they used it when they decided to ban and confiscate guns...



There is no gun show loophole.

Registration is the goal, so you can later ban and confiscate without having to worry about people hiding their guns...which is the only reason you want universal background checks....it is the trojan horse for gun registration.

While it may be somewhat misnamed, the gun show loophole does indeed exist.

What Is the Gun Show Loophole and Why Does it Exist?

Gun sold or transferred by private gun owners are not regulated by law in many states, creating a loophole in gun control.

www.thoughtco.com

I see constant wailing on this board about the gun violence in Chicago when the city is supposed to be a gun free zone.
Well...where do the guns come from? And how do they get there? If you look at this article, you'll notice the states that
have "closed" that loophole and those that haven't. You will also find that the most of the guns that make it into Chicago,
come from the states that still have that loophole open.

There is nothing wrong with registration. We demand that cars are registered.
And your gun "ban" argument in these countries doesn't quite hold water. I just took Germany as an example.
In fact, I see a lot common sense in these requirements. Some of them wouldn't fly here and I would never support a gun grab (Wouldn't happen anyway).

Where does Germany stand on gun control? – DW – 07/14/2024

In Germany, buying, possessing and using guns is strictly regulated. DW looks at the details of gun ownership laws.

www.dw.com

its not a loophole,, its the right of every american do do business with another,,,

Of course. But in the case of a car, even if it is a clunker that you are selling to a neighbor for cash, there will still be a title transferred that will necessitate a change in registration, license plates, insurance (maybe).
Some entity will have a record of it Not so with guns. I have no problem with you selling your gun to your neighbor..as long as it goes through a licensed broker. Ergo, registration of sale and transfer of ownership...along with the requisite thorough
background check. Both cars and guns can kill people. Difference is, in almost all cases, we know who actually owns the car. Not so with guns.

And you are dishonest....you know that the only reason to register guns is to later ban and confiscate them.....

registration solves no crime, and so that bullshit is just a lie to fool uniformed Americans into giving you what you want, registration first, then bans and confiscation.

 

[progressive hunter]

Somebody already beat me to the Heller argument. That being said, the whole idea of a "well regulated militia" has already been differentiated. And it doesn't apply. It's one of the reasons that the modern day National Guard doesn't like being associated with the word "militia". I support any law abiding citizens right to own, operate, and carry a firearm. But gun regulations aren't gun grabs. I see nothing wrong with a national gun registry, closing all the gunshow loopholes, forcing private sales to either be handled through a licensed firearms dealer or pass registration in your state, and expanded background checks. These are just common sense.

So, About That "Well-Regulated Militia" Part of the Constitution

Bay Area demonstrations by right-wing groups scheduled over the weekend fizzled in face of massive opposition protests, defusing fears that Charlottesville-like violence could erupt in San Francisco and Berkeley. Indeed, protests in San Francisco were peaceful, and the few scuffles that did...

alumni.berkeley.edu

The Germans, French, Russians, Australians, Canadians, British, New Zealand didn't see anything wrong with a national gun registry either.....in fact, they liked it so much, they used it when they decided to ban and confiscate guns...



There is no gun show loophole.

Registration is the goal, so you can later ban and confiscate without having to worry about people hiding their guns...which is the only reason you want universal background checks....it is the trojan horse for gun registration.

While it may be somewhat misnamed, the gun show loophole does indeed exist.

What Is the Gun Show Loophole and Why Does it Exist?

Gun sold or transferred by private gun owners are not regulated by law in many states, creating a loophole in gun control.

www.thoughtco.com

I see constant wailing on this board about the gun violence in Chicago when the city is supposed to be a gun free zone.
Well...where do the guns come from? And how do they get there? If you look at this article, you'll notice the states that
have "closed" that loophole and those that haven't. You will also find that the most of the guns that make it into Chicago,
come from the states that still have that loophole open.

There is nothing wrong with registration. We demand that cars are registered.
And your gun "ban" argument in these countries doesn't quite hold water. I just took Germany as an example.
In fact, I see a lot common sense in these requirements. Some of them wouldn't fly here and I would never support a gun grab (Wouldn't happen anyway).

Where does Germany stand on gun control? – DW – 07/14/2024

In Germany, buying, possessing and using guns is strictly regulated. DW looks at the details of gun ownership laws.

www.dw.com

its not a loophole,, its the right of every american do do business with another,,,

Of course. But in the case of a car, even if it is a clunker that you are selling to a neighbor for cash, there will still be a title transferred that will necessitate a change in registration, license plates, insurance (maybe).
Some entity will have a record of it Not so with guns. I have no problem with you selling your gun to your neighbor..as long as it goes through a licensed broker. Ergo, registration of sale and transfer of ownership...along with the requisite thorough
background check. Both cars and guns can kill people. Difference is, in almost all cases, we know who actually owns the car. Not so with guns.

owning a car isnt a protected right,, but nice try though,,

 

[2aguy]

Somebody already beat me to the Heller argument. That being said, the whole idea of a "well regulated militia" has already been differentiated. And it doesn't apply. It's one of the reasons that the modern day National Guard doesn't like being associated with the word "militia". I support any law abiding citizens right to own, operate, and carry a firearm. But gun regulations aren't gun grabs. I see nothing wrong with a national gun registry, closing all the gunshow loopholes, forcing private sales to either be handled through a licensed firearms dealer or pass registration in your state, and expanded background checks. These are just common sense.

So, About That "Well-Regulated Militia" Part of the Constitution

Bay Area demonstrations by right-wing groups scheduled over the weekend fizzled in face of massive opposition protests, defusing fears that Charlottesville-like violence could erupt in San Francisco and Berkeley. Indeed, protests in San Francisco were peaceful, and the few scuffles that did...

alumni.berkeley.edu

The Germans, French, Russians, Australians, Canadians, British, New Zealand didn't see anything wrong with a national gun registry either.....in fact, they liked it so much, they used it when they decided to ban and confiscate guns...



There is no gun show loophole.

Registration is the goal, so you can later ban and confiscate without having to worry about people hiding their guns...which is the only reason you want universal background checks....it is the trojan horse for gun registration.

While it may be somewhat misnamed, the gun show loophole does indeed exist.

What Is the Gun Show Loophole and Why Does it Exist?

Gun sold or transferred by private gun owners are not regulated by law in many states, creating a loophole in gun control.

www.thoughtco.com

I see constant wailing on this board about the gun violence in Chicago when the city is supposed to be a gun free zone.
Well...where do the guns come from? And how do they get there? If you look at this article, you'll notice the states that
have "closed" that loophole and those that haven't. You will also find that the most of the guns that make it into Chicago,
come from the states that still have that loophole open.

There is nothing wrong with registration. We demand that cars are registered.
And your gun "ban" argument in these countries doesn't quite hold water. I just took Germany as an example.
In fact, I see a lot common sense in these requirements. Some of them wouldn't fly here and I would never support a gun grab (Wouldn't happen anyway).

Where does Germany stand on gun control? – DW – 07/14/2024

In Germany, buying, possessing and using guns is strictly regulated. DW looks at the details of gun ownership laws.

www.dw.com

And yet....you guys can never explain how it is that the states where the guns come from....have lower gun crime and gun murder rates than Chicago.....

How is that...if guns are the problem and not the policies of the democrat party that has complete control of chicago...since 1932?

The democrat party in Chicago creates over 95% of the gun crime....by releasing violent, known, repeat gun offenders over and over again.......that is the problem, not guns, and not law abiding gun owners.

The shooters in these crimes? Have long histories of violence and crime, multiple felonies....and they are released on Bond, often home confinement, and then they go out and shoot more people.....all because the democrat party, not guns, allows them to be free....

So sell the Bullshit about guns from other states....those states do not have the gun crime rate that Chicago does.....and so that isn't the problem....

Urban areas have larger populations and higher density. So, no, it's not hard to explain why those states have lower crime rates.
This is a debate so the last four sentences of your political rant are ignored.

Tell that to Houston....or Miami.....where you have gun stores on every corner, gun ranges and they have easier carry laws.......Chicago has zero gun stores, zero gun ranges, and the worst concealed carry requirements.....and has a higher gun murder rate than those cities...

And Houston is in a state that borders the Narco state of Mexico....

Sell that bullshit to uninformed people....

The problem is democrat party policies.....on bail, parole, gun crime prison sentences, and the war on police by the democrat party....that creates gun crime.....not legal gun owners.....

 

[JackOfNoTrades]

Somebody already beat me to the Heller argument. That being said, the whole idea of a "well regulated militia" has already been differentiated. And it doesn't apply. It's one of the reasons that the modern day National Guard doesn't like being associated with the word "militia". I support any law abiding citizens right to own, operate, and carry a firearm. But gun regulations aren't gun grabs. I see nothing wrong with a national gun registry, closing all the gunshow loopholes, forcing private sales to either be handled through a licensed firearms dealer or pass registration in your state, and expanded background checks. These are just common sense.

So, About That "Well-Regulated Militia" Part of the Constitution

Bay Area demonstrations by right-wing groups scheduled over the weekend fizzled in face of massive opposition protests, defusing fears that Charlottesville-like violence could erupt in San Francisco and Berkeley. Indeed, protests in San Francisco were peaceful, and the few scuffles that did...

alumni.berkeley.edu

The Germans, French, Russians, Australians, Canadians, British, New Zealand didn't see anything wrong with a national gun registry either.....in fact, they liked it so much, they used it when they decided to ban and confiscate guns...



There is no gun show loophole.

Registration is the goal, so you can later ban and confiscate without having to worry about people hiding their guns...which is the only reason you want universal background checks....it is the trojan horse for gun registration.

While it may be somewhat misnamed, the gun show loophole does indeed exist.

What Is the Gun Show Loophole and Why Does it Exist?

Gun sold or transferred by private gun owners are not regulated by law in many states, creating a loophole in gun control.

www.thoughtco.com

I see constant wailing on this board about the gun violence in Chicago when the city is supposed to be a gun free zone.
Well...where do the guns come from? And how do they get there? If you look at this article, you'll notice the states that
have "closed" that loophole and those that haven't. You will also find that the most of the guns that make it into Chicago,
come from the states that still have that loophole open.

There is nothing wrong with registration. We demand that cars are registered.
And your gun "ban" argument in these countries doesn't quite hold water. I just took Germany as an example.
In fact, I see a lot common sense in these requirements. Some of them wouldn't fly here and I would never support a gun grab (Wouldn't happen anyway).

Where does Germany stand on gun control? – DW – 07/14/2024

In Germany, buying, possessing and using guns is strictly regulated. DW looks at the details of gun ownership laws.

www.dw.com

its not a loophole,, its the right of every american do do business with another,,,

Of course. But in the case of a car, even if it is a clunker that you are selling to a neighbor for cash, there will still be a title transferred that will necessitate a change in registration, license plates, insurance (maybe).
Some entity will have a record of it Not so with guns. I have no problem with you selling your gun to your neighbor..as long as it goes through a licensed broker. Ergo, registration of sale and transfer of ownership...along with the requisite thorough
background check. Both cars and guns can kill people. Difference is, in almost all cases, we know who actually owns the car. Not so with guns.

owning a car isnt a protected right,, but nice try though,,

Please go back and re-read the Heller decision of 2008 carefully.
No. Owning a gun is NOT a protected right. Narrow definition.

 

[progressive hunter]

Somebody already beat me to the Heller argument. That being said, the whole idea of a "well regulated militia" has already been differentiated. And it doesn't apply. It's one of the reasons that the modern day National Guard doesn't like being associated with the word "militia". I support any law abiding citizens right to own, operate, and carry a firearm. But gun regulations aren't gun grabs. I see nothing wrong with a national gun registry, closing all the gunshow loopholes, forcing private sales to either be handled through a licensed firearms dealer or pass registration in your state, and expanded background checks. These are just common sense.

So, About That "Well-Regulated Militia" Part of the Constitution

Bay Area demonstrations by right-wing groups scheduled over the weekend fizzled in face of massive opposition protests, defusing fears that Charlottesville-like violence could erupt in San Francisco and Berkeley. Indeed, protests in San Francisco were peaceful, and the few scuffles that did...

alumni.berkeley.edu

The Germans, French, Russians, Australians, Canadians, British, New Zealand didn't see anything wrong with a national gun registry either.....in fact, they liked it so much, they used it when they decided to ban and confiscate guns...



There is no gun show loophole.

Registration is the goal, so you can later ban and confiscate without having to worry about people hiding their guns...which is the only reason you want universal background checks....it is the trojan horse for gun registration.

While it may be somewhat misnamed, the gun show loophole does indeed exist.

What Is the Gun Show Loophole and Why Does it Exist?

Gun sold or transferred by private gun owners are not regulated by law in many states, creating a loophole in gun control.

www.thoughtco.com

I see constant wailing on this board about the gun violence in Chicago when the city is supposed to be a gun free zone.
Well...where do the guns come from? And how do they get there? If you look at this article, you'll notice the states that
have "closed" that loophole and those that haven't. You will also find that the most of the guns that make it into Chicago,
come from the states that still have that loophole open.

There is nothing wrong with registration. We demand that cars are registered.
And your gun "ban" argument in these countries doesn't quite hold water. I just took Germany as an example.
In fact, I see a lot common sense in these requirements. Some of them wouldn't fly here and I would never support a gun grab (Wouldn't happen anyway).

Where does Germany stand on gun control? – DW – 07/14/2024

In Germany, buying, possessing and using guns is strictly regulated. DW looks at the details of gun ownership laws.

www.dw.com

its not a loophole,, its the right of every american do do business with another,,,

Of course. But in the case of a car, even if it is a clunker that you are selling to a neighbor for cash, there will still be a title transferred that will necessitate a change in registration, license plates, insurance (maybe).
Some entity will have a record of it Not so with guns. I have no problem with you selling your gun to your neighbor..as long as it goes through a licensed broker. Ergo, registration of sale and transfer of ownership...along with the requisite thorough
background check. Both cars and guns can kill people. Difference is, in almost all cases, we know who actually owns the car. Not so with guns.

owning a car isnt a protected right,, but nice try though,,

Please go back and re-read the Heller decision of 2008 carefully.
No. Owning a gun is NOT a protected right. Narrow definition.

go back and read the 2nd amendment because they are,,

 

[2aguy]

Somebody already beat me to the Heller argument. That being said, the whole idea of a "well regulated militia" has already been differentiated. And it doesn't apply. It's one of the reasons that the modern day National Guard doesn't like being associated with the word "militia". I support any law abiding citizens right to own, operate, and carry a firearm. But gun regulations aren't gun grabs. I see nothing wrong with a national gun registry, closing all the gunshow loopholes, forcing private sales to either be handled through a licensed firearms dealer or pass registration in your state, and expanded background checks. These are just common sense.

So, About That "Well-Regulated Militia" Part of the Constitution

Bay Area demonstrations by right-wing groups scheduled over the weekend fizzled in face of massive opposition protests, defusing fears that Charlottesville-like violence could erupt in San Francisco and Berkeley. Indeed, protests in San Francisco were peaceful, and the few scuffles that did...

alumni.berkeley.edu

The Germans, French, Russians, Australians, Canadians, British, New Zealand didn't see anything wrong with a national gun registry either.....in fact, they liked it so much, they used it when they decided to ban and confiscate guns...



There is no gun show loophole.

Registration is the goal, so you can later ban and confiscate without having to worry about people hiding their guns...which is the only reason you want universal background checks....it is the trojan horse for gun registration.

While it may be somewhat misnamed, the gun show loophole does indeed exist.

What Is the Gun Show Loophole and Why Does it Exist?

Gun sold or transferred by private gun owners are not regulated by law in many states, creating a loophole in gun control.

www.thoughtco.com

I see constant wailing on this board about the gun violence in Chicago when the city is supposed to be a gun free zone.
Well...where do the guns come from? And how do they get there? If you look at this article, you'll notice the states that
have "closed" that loophole and those that haven't. You will also find that the most of the guns that make it into Chicago,
come from the states that still have that loophole open.

There is nothing wrong with registration. We demand that cars are registered.
And your gun "ban" argument in these countries doesn't quite hold water. I just took Germany as an example.
In fact, I see a lot common sense in these requirements. Some of them wouldn't fly here and I would never support a gun grab (Wouldn't happen anyway).

Where does Germany stand on gun control? – DW – 07/14/2024

In Germany, buying, possessing and using guns is strictly regulated. DW looks at the details of gun ownership laws.

www.dw.com

its not a loophole,, its the right of every american do do business with another,,,

Of course. But in the case of a car, even if it is a clunker that you are selling to a neighbor for cash, there will still be a title transferred that will necessitate a change in registration, license plates, insurance (maybe).
Some entity will have a record of it Not so with guns. I have no problem with you selling your gun to your neighbor..as long as it goes through a licensed broker. Ergo, registration of sale and transfer of ownership...along with the requisite thorough
background check. Both cars and guns can kill people. Difference is, in almost all cases, we know who actually owns the car. Not so with guns.

Gun registration doesn't solve crimes with guns....that is a myth......something you guys sell to uninformed people to convince them to give you the power you want to ban and confiscate guns...after you register them....

Gun Registration...why it is dumb....

Eighty percent of illegal guns recovered in Michigan have been on the street for at least three years. The average time between a firearm being stolen and turning up in a criminal context — what police call the “time to crime” — is a long 13 years.

Editorial: How to get illegal guns off the streets

Canada Tried Registering Long Guns -- And Gave Up

The law passed and starting in 1998 Canadians were required to have a license to own firearms and register their weapons with the government. According to Canadian researcher (and gun enthusiast) Gary Mauser, the Canada Firearms Center quickly rose to 600 employees and the cost of the effort climbed past $600 million. In 2002 Canada’s auditor general released a report saying initial cost estimates of $2 million (Canadian) had increased to $1 billion as the government tried to register the estimated 15 million guns owned by Canada’s 34 million residents.

The registry was plagued with complications like duplicate serial numbers and millions of incomplete records, Mauser reports. One person managed to register a soldering gun, demonstrating the lack of precise standards. And overshadowing the effort was the suspicion of misplaced effort: Pistols were used in 66% of gun homicides in 2011, yet they represent about 6% of the guns in Canada. Legal long guns were used in 11% of killings that year, according to Statistics Canada, while illegal weapons like sawed-off shotguns and machine guns, which by definition cannot be registered, were used in another 12%.

So the government was spending the bulk of its money — about $17 million of the Firearms Center’s $82 million annual budget — trying to register long guns when the statistics showed they weren’t the problem.

There was also the question of how registering guns was supposed to reduce crime and suicide in the first place. From 1997 to 2005, only 13% of the guns used in homicides were registered. Police studies in Canada estimated that 2-16% of guns used in crimes were stolen from legal owners and thus potentially in the registry. The bulk of the guns, Canadian officials concluded, were unregistered weapons imported illegally from the U.S. by criminal gangs.

Finally in 2011, conservatives led by Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper voted to abolish the long-gun registry and destroy all its records. Liberals argued the law had contributed to the decline in gun homicides since it was passed. But Mauser notes that gun homicides have actually been rising in recent years, from 151 in 1999 to 173 in 2009, as violent criminal gangs use guns in their drug turf wars and other disputes. As in the U.S., most gun homicides in Canada are committed by young males, many of them with criminal records. In the majority of homicides involving young males, the victim and the killer are know each other.


As to solving crimes....it doesn't...

10 Myths About The Long Gun Registry

Myth #4: Police investigations are aided by the registry.

Doubtful. Information contained in the registry is incomplete and unreliable. Due to the inaccuracy of the information, it cannot be used as evidence in court and the government has yet to prove that it has been a contributing factor in any investigation. Another factor is the dismal compliance rate (estimated at only 50%) for licensing and registration which further renders the registry useless. Some senior police officers have stated as such: “The law registering firearms has neither deterred these crimes nor helped us solve any of them. None of the guns we know to have been used were registered ... the money could be more effectively used for security against terrorism as well as a host of other public safety initiatives.” Former Toronto Police Chief Julian Fantino, January 2003.


-----

https://www.quora.com/In-countries-...olved-at-least-in-part-by-use-of-the-registry



Tracking physical objects that are easily transferred with a database is non-trivial problem. Guns that are stolen, loaned, or lost disappear from the registry. The data is has to be manually entered and input mistakes will both leak guns and generate false positive results.

Registries don’t solve straw-purchases. If someone goes through all of the steps to register a gun and simply gives it to a criminal that gun becomes unregistered. Assuming the gun is ever recovered you could theoretically try and prosecute the person who transferred the gun to the criminal, but you aren’t solving the crime you were trying to. Remember that people will prostitute themselves or even their children for drugs, so how much deterrence is there in a maybe-get-a-few-years for straw purchasing?

Registries are expensive. Canada’s registry was pitched as costing the taxpayer $2 million and the rest of the costs were to be payed for with registration fees. It was subject to massive cost overruns that were not being met by registrations fees. When the program was audited in 2002 the program was expected to cost over $1 billion and that the fee revenue was only expected to be $140 million.

No gun recovered. If no gun was recovered at the scene of the crime then your registry isn’t even theoretically helping, let alone providing a practical tool. You need a world where criminals meticulously register their guns and leave them at the crime scene for a registry to start to become useful.

Say I have a registered gun, and a known associate of mine was shot and killed. Ballistics is able to determine that my known associate was killed with the same make and model as the gun I registered. A registry doesn’t prove that my gun was used, or that I was the one doing the shooting. I was a suspect as soon as we said “known associate” and the police will then being looking for motive and checking for my alibi.


Bullet tracking..

Maryland scraps gun "fingerprint" database after 15 failed years
Millions of dollars later, Maryland has officially decided that its 15-year effort to store and catalog the "fingerprints" of thousands of handguns was a failure.

Since 2000, the state required that gun manufacturers fire every handgun to be sold here and send the spent bullet casing to authorities. The idea was to build a database of "ballistic fingerprints" to help solve future crimes.

But the system — plagued by technological problems — never solved a single case. Now the hundreds of thousands of accumulated casings could be sold for scrap.

"Obviously, I'm disappointed," said former Gov. Parris N. Glendening, a Democrat whose administration pushed for the database to fulfill a campaign promise. "It's a little unfortunate, in that logic and common sense suggest that it would be a good crime-fighting tool."

The database "was a waste," said Frank Sloane, owner of Pasadena Gun & Pawn in Anne Arundel County. "There's things that they could have done that would have made sense. This didn't make any sense."

 

[2aguy]

Somebody already beat me to the Heller argument. That being said, the whole idea of a "well regulated militia" has already been differentiated. And it doesn't apply. It's one of the reasons that the modern day National Guard doesn't like being associated with the word "militia". I support any law abiding citizens right to own, operate, and carry a firearm. But gun regulations aren't gun grabs. I see nothing wrong with a national gun registry, closing all the gunshow loopholes, forcing private sales to either be handled through a licensed firearms dealer or pass registration in your state, and expanded background checks. These are just common sense.

So, About That "Well-Regulated Militia" Part of the Constitution

Bay Area demonstrations by right-wing groups scheduled over the weekend fizzled in face of massive opposition protests, defusing fears that Charlottesville-like violence could erupt in San Francisco and Berkeley. Indeed, protests in San Francisco were peaceful, and the few scuffles that did...

alumni.berkeley.edu

The Germans, French, Russians, Australians, Canadians, British, New Zealand didn't see anything wrong with a national gun registry either.....in fact, they liked it so much, they used it when they decided to ban and confiscate guns...



There is no gun show loophole.

Registration is the goal, so you can later ban and confiscate without having to worry about people hiding their guns...which is the only reason you want universal background checks....it is the trojan horse for gun registration.

While it may be somewhat misnamed, the gun show loophole does indeed exist.

What Is the Gun Show Loophole and Why Does it Exist?

Gun sold or transferred by private gun owners are not regulated by law in many states, creating a loophole in gun control.

www.thoughtco.com

I see constant wailing on this board about the gun violence in Chicago when the city is supposed to be a gun free zone.
Well...where do the guns come from? And how do they get there? If you look at this article, you'll notice the states that
have "closed" that loophole and those that haven't. You will also find that the most of the guns that make it into Chicago,
come from the states that still have that loophole open.

There is nothing wrong with registration. We demand that cars are registered.
And your gun "ban" argument in these countries doesn't quite hold water. I just took Germany as an example.
In fact, I see a lot common sense in these requirements. Some of them wouldn't fly here and I would never support a gun grab (Wouldn't happen anyway).

Where does Germany stand on gun control? – DW – 07/14/2024

In Germany, buying, possessing and using guns is strictly regulated. DW looks at the details of gun ownership laws.

www.dw.com

its not a loophole,, its the right of every american do do business with another,,,

Of course. But in the case of a car, even if it is a clunker that you are selling to a neighbor for cash, there will still be a title transferred that will necessitate a change in registration, license plates, insurance (maybe).
Some entity will have a record of it Not so with guns. I have no problem with you selling your gun to your neighbor..as long as it goes through a licensed broker. Ergo, registration of sale and transfer of ownership...along with the requisite thorough
background check. Both cars and guns can kill people. Difference is, in almost all cases, we know who actually owns the car. Not so with guns.

owning a car isnt a protected right,, but nice try though,,

Please go back and re-read the Heller decision of 2008 carefully.
No. Owning a gun is NOT a protected right. Narrow definition.

You need to read that decision....you are wrong...then read Caetano v Massachusetts, and what Scalia wrote in Friedman v Highland park...

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf

Some have made the argument, bordering on the frivolous, that only those arms in existence in the 18th century are protected by the Second Amendment.

We do not interpret constitutional rights that way. Just as the First Amendment protects modern forms of communications, e.g., Reno v. American Civil Liberties Union, 521 U. S. 844, 849 (1997), and the Fourth Amendment applies to modern forms of search, e.g., Kyllo v. United States, 533 U. S. 27, 35–36 (2001), the Second Amendment extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding.

--------




And as to the Dangerous and Unusual portion....from Miller......Justice Alito Addresses that in Caetano v. Massachusetts as he confirms that Heller protects these weapons....

....these rifles are protected and those bans are unConstitutional...

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/15pdf/14-10078_aplc.pdf

Opinion of the Court[edit]

Ihttps://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/15pdf/14-10078_aplc.pdf

Opinion of the Court[edit]



In a per curiam decision, the Supreme Court vacated the ruling of the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court.

------





As to “dangerous,” the court below held that a weapon is “dangerous per se” if it is “ ‘designed and constructed to produce death or great bodily harm’ and ‘for the purpose of bodily assault or defense.’” 470 Mass., at 779, 26 N. E. 3d, at 692 (quoting Commonwealth v. Appleby, 380 Mass. 296, 303, 402 N. E. 2d 1051, 1056 (1980)). That test may be appropriate for applying statutes criminalizing assault with a dangerous weapon. See ibid., 402 N. E. 2d, at 1056. But it cannot be used to identify arms that fall outside the Second Amendment.



First, the relative dangerousness of a weapon is irrelevant when the weapon belongs to a class of arms commonly used for lawful purposes. See Heller, supra, at 627 (contrasting “‘dangerous and unusual weapons’” that may be banned with protected “weapons . . . ‘in common use at the time’”).



Second, even in cases where dangerousness might be relevant, the Supreme Judicial Court’s test sweeps far too broadly. Heller defined the “Arms” covered by the Second Amendment to include “‘any thing that a man wears for his defence, or takes into his hands, or useth in wrath to cast at or strike another.’” 554 U. S., at 581. Under the decision below, however, virtually every covered arm would qualify as “dangerous.” Were there any doubt on this point, one need only look at the court’s first example of “dangerous per se” weapons: “firearms.” 470 Mass., at 779, 26 N. E. 3d, at 692.



If Heller tells us anything, it is that firearms cannot be categorically prohibited just because they are dangerous. 554 U. S., at 636. A fortiori, stun guns that the Commonwealth’s own witness described as “non-lethal force,” Tr. 27, cannot be banned on that basis

 

[2aguy]

Somebody already beat me to the Heller argument. That being said, the whole idea of a "well regulated militia" has already been differentiated. And it doesn't apply. It's one of the reasons that the modern day National Guard doesn't like being associated with the word "militia". I support any law abiding citizens right to own, operate, and carry a firearm. But gun regulations aren't gun grabs. I see nothing wrong with a national gun registry, closing all the gunshow loopholes, forcing private sales to either be handled through a licensed firearms dealer or pass registration in your state, and expanded background checks. These are just common sense.

So, About That "Well-Regulated Militia" Part of the Constitution

Bay Area demonstrations by right-wing groups scheduled over the weekend fizzled in face of massive opposition protests, defusing fears that Charlottesville-like violence could erupt in San Francisco and Berkeley. Indeed, protests in San Francisco were peaceful, and the few scuffles that did...

alumni.berkeley.edu

The Germans, French, Russians, Australians, Canadians, British, New Zealand didn't see anything wrong with a national gun registry either.....in fact, they liked it so much, they used it when they decided to ban and confiscate guns...



There is no gun show loophole.

Registration is the goal, so you can later ban and confiscate without having to worry about people hiding their guns...which is the only reason you want universal background checks....it is the trojan horse for gun registration.

While it may be somewhat misnamed, the gun show loophole does indeed exist.

What Is the Gun Show Loophole and Why Does it Exist?

Gun sold or transferred by private gun owners are not regulated by law in many states, creating a loophole in gun control.

www.thoughtco.com

I see constant wailing on this board about the gun violence in Chicago when the city is supposed to be a gun free zone.
Well...where do the guns come from? And how do they get there? If you look at this article, you'll notice the states that
have "closed" that loophole and those that haven't. You will also find that the most of the guns that make it into Chicago,
come from the states that still have that loophole open.

There is nothing wrong with registration. We demand that cars are registered.
And your gun "ban" argument in these countries doesn't quite hold water. I just took Germany as an example.
In fact, I see a lot common sense in these requirements. Some of them wouldn't fly here and I would never support a gun grab (Wouldn't happen anyway).

Where does Germany stand on gun control? – DW – 07/14/2024

In Germany, buying, possessing and using guns is strictly regulated. DW looks at the details of gun ownership laws.

www.dw.com

its not a loophole,, its the right of every american do do business with another,,,

Of course. But in the case of a car, even if it is a clunker that you are selling to a neighbor for cash, there will still be a title transferred that will necessitate a change in registration, license plates, insurance (maybe).
Some entity will have a record of it Not so with guns. I have no problem with you selling your gun to your neighbor..as long as it goes through a licensed broker. Ergo, registration of sale and transfer of ownership...along with the requisite thorough
background check. Both cars and guns can kill people. Difference is, in almost all cases, we know who actually owns the car. Not so with guns.

owning a car isnt a protected right,, but nice try though,,

Please go back and re-read the Heller decision of 2008 carefully.
No. Owning a gun is NOT a protected right. Narrow definition.

This is from Scalia, you know, the guy who wrote the majority opinion in Heller.......

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/15pdf/15-133_7l48.pdf

The question under Heller is not whether citizens have adequate alternatives available for self-defense.

Rather, Heller asks whether the law bans types of firearms commonly used for a lawful purpose—regardless of whether alternatives exist. 554 U. S., at 627–629. And Heller draws a distinction between such firearms and weapons specially adapted to unlawful uses and not in common use, such as sawed-off shotguns. Id., at 624–625.
The City’s ban is thus highly suspect because it broadly prohibits common semiautomatic firearms used for lawful purposes.


Roughly five million Americans own AR-style semiautomatic rifles. See 784 F. 3d, at 415, n. 3. The overwhelming majority of citizens who own and use such rifles do so for lawful purposes, including self-defense and target shooting. See ibid. Under our precedents, that is all that is needed for citizens to have a right under the Second Amendment to keep such weapons. See McDonald, 561 U. S., at 767–768; Heller, supra, at 628–629.

A more detailed quote from Friedman...

Lastly, the Seventh Circuit considered “whether lawabiding citizens retain adequate means of self-defense,” and reasoned that the City’s ban was permissible because “f criminals can find substitutes for banned assault weapons, then so can law-abiding homeowners.” 784 F. 3d, at 410, 411.

Although the court recognized that “Heller held that the availability of long guns does not save a ban on handgun ownership,” it thought that “Heller did not foreclose the possibility that allowing the use of most long guns plus pistols and revolvers . . . gives householders adequate means of defense.” Id., at 411.

That analysis misreads Heller.

The question under Heller is not whether citizens have adequate alternatives available for self-defense. Rather, Heller asks whether the law bans types of firearms commonly used for a lawful purpose—regardless of whether alternatives exist. 554 U. S., at 627–629.

And Heller draws a distinction between such firearms and weapons specially adapted to unlawful uses and not in common use, such as sawed-off shotguns. Id., at 624–625.

The City’s ban is thus highly suspect because it broadly prohibits common semiautomatic firearms used for lawful purposes.

Roughly five million Americans own AR-style semiautomatic rifles. See 784 F. 3d, at 415, n. 3. The overwhelming majority of citizens who own and use such rifles do so for lawful purposes, including self-defense and target shooting. See ibid. Under our precedents, that is all that is needed for citizens to have a right under the Second Amendment to keep such weapons. See McDonald, 561 U. S., at 767–768; Heller, supra, at 628–629.


The Seventh Circuit ultimately upheld a ban on many common semiautomatic firearms based on speculation about the law’s potential policy benefits. See 784 F. 3d, at 411–412. The court conceded that handguns—not “assault weapons”—“are responsible for the vast majority of gun violence in the United States.” Id., at 409.

Still, the court concluded, the ordinance “may increase the public’s sense of safety,” which alone is “a substantial benefit.” Id., at 412.


Heller, however, forbids subjecting the Second Amendment’s “core protection . . . to a freestanding ‘interestbalancing’ approach.” Heller, supra, at 634. This case illustrates why. If a broad ban on firearms can be upheld based on conjecture that the public might feel safer (while being no safer at all), then the Second Amendment guarantees nothing.




https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/15pdf/15-133_7l48.pdf

 

[Darkwind]

Somebody already beat me to the Heller argument. That being said, the whole idea of a "well regulated militia" has already been differentiated. And it doesn't apply. It's one of the reasons that the modern day National Guard doesn't like being associated with the word "militia". I support any law abiding citizens right to own, operate, and carry a firearm. But gun regulations aren't gun grabs. I see nothing wrong with a national gun registry, closing all the gunshow loopholes, forcing private sales to either be handled through a licensed firearms dealer or pass registration in your state, and expanded background checks. These are just common sense.

So, About That "Well-Regulated Militia" Part of the Constitution

Bay Area demonstrations by right-wing groups scheduled over the weekend fizzled in face of massive opposition protests, defusing fears that Charlottesville-like violence could erupt in San Francisco and Berkeley. Indeed, protests in San Francisco were peaceful, and the few scuffles that did...

alumni.berkeley.edu

The Germans, French, Russians, Australians, Canadians, British, New Zealand didn't see anything wrong with a national gun registry either.....in fact, they liked it so much, they used it when they decided to ban and confiscate guns...



There is no gun show loophole.

Registration is the goal, so you can later ban and confiscate without having to worry about people hiding their guns...which is the only reason you want universal background checks....it is the trojan horse for gun registration.

While it may be somewhat misnamed, the gun show loophole does indeed exist.

What Is the Gun Show Loophole and Why Does it Exist?

Gun sold or transferred by private gun owners are not regulated by law in many states, creating a loophole in gun control.

www.thoughtco.com

I see constant wailing on this board about the gun violence in Chicago when the city is supposed to be a gun free zone.
Well...where do the guns come from? And how do they get there? If you look at this article, you'll notice the states that
have "closed" that loophole and those that haven't. You will also find that the most of the guns that make it into Chicago,
come from the states that still have that loophole open.

There is nothing wrong with registration. We demand that cars are registered.
And your gun "ban" argument in these countries doesn't quite hold water. I just took Germany as an example.
In fact, I see a lot common sense in these requirements. Some of them wouldn't fly here and I would never support a gun grab (Wouldn't happen anyway).

Where does Germany stand on gun control? – DW – 07/14/2024

In Germany, buying, possessing and using guns is strictly regulated. DW looks at the details of gun ownership laws.

www.dw.com

its not a loophole,, its the right of every american do do business with another,,,

Of course. But in the case of a car, even if it is a clunker that you are selling to a neighbor for cash, there will still be a title transferred that will necessitate a change in registration, license plates, insurance (maybe).
Some entity will have a record of it Not so with guns. I have no problem with you selling your gun to your neighbor..as long as it goes through a licensed broker. Ergo, registration of sale and transfer of ownership...along with the requisite thorough
background check. Both cars and guns can kill people. Difference is, in almost all cases, we know who actually owns the car. Not so with guns.

when will we start licensing voters?

 

[progressive hunter]

Somebody already beat me to the Heller argument. That being said, the whole idea of a "well regulated militia" has already been differentiated. And it doesn't apply. It's one of the reasons that the modern day National Guard doesn't like being associated with the word "militia". I support any law abiding citizens right to own, operate, and carry a firearm. But gun regulations aren't gun grabs. I see nothing wrong with a national gun registry, closing all the gunshow loopholes, forcing private sales to either be handled through a licensed firearms dealer or pass registration in your state, and expanded background checks. These are just common sense.

So, About That "Well-Regulated Militia" Part of the Constitution

Bay Area demonstrations by right-wing groups scheduled over the weekend fizzled in face of massive opposition protests, defusing fears that Charlottesville-like violence could erupt in San Francisco and Berkeley. Indeed, protests in San Francisco were peaceful, and the few scuffles that did...

alumni.berkeley.edu

The Germans, French, Russians, Australians, Canadians, British, New Zealand didn't see anything wrong with a national gun registry either.....in fact, they liked it so much, they used it when they decided to ban and confiscate guns...



There is no gun show loophole.

Registration is the goal, so you can later ban and confiscate without having to worry about people hiding their guns...which is the only reason you want universal background checks....it is the trojan horse for gun registration.

While it may be somewhat misnamed, the gun show loophole does indeed exist.

What Is the Gun Show Loophole and Why Does it Exist?

Gun sold or transferred by private gun owners are not regulated by law in many states, creating a loophole in gun control.

www.thoughtco.com

I see constant wailing on this board about the gun violence in Chicago when the city is supposed to be a gun free zone.
Well...where do the guns come from? And how do they get there? If you look at this article, you'll notice the states that
have "closed" that loophole and those that haven't. You will also find that the most of the guns that make it into Chicago,
come from the states that still have that loophole open.

There is nothing wrong with registration. We demand that cars are registered.
And your gun "ban" argument in these countries doesn't quite hold water. I just took Germany as an example.
In fact, I see a lot common sense in these requirements. Some of them wouldn't fly here and I would never support a gun grab (Wouldn't happen anyway).

Where does Germany stand on gun control? – DW – 07/14/2024

In Germany, buying, possessing and using guns is strictly regulated. DW looks at the details of gun ownership laws.

www.dw.com

its not a loophole,, its the right of every american do do business with another,,,

Of course. But in the case of a car, even if it is a clunker that you are selling to a neighbor for cash, there will still be a title transferred that will necessitate a change in registration, license plates, insurance (maybe).
Some entity will have a record of it Not so with guns. I have no problem with you selling your gun to your neighbor..as long as it goes through a licensed broker. Ergo, registration of sale and transfer of ownership...along with the requisite thorough
background check. Both cars and guns can kill people. Difference is, in almost all cases, we know who actually owns the car. Not so with guns.

when will we start licensing voters?

and require them to have an ID,,

 

[Circe]

Incredibly sad commentary on the type of nation you want. A nation where you never feel safe unless you're armed. Wow.

True. It's not the type of nation I want, but it sure is how the nation has become.

I'd like to have a chance at self-defense against all these crazies and blacks and muslims massacring lots of people nearly every day. If the leftists grab our guns, that just leaves us helpless against all these murderers.

 

[DudleySmith]

I think it's very clear the Founders left it to the states to decide such individual issues, and the history bears it out, same as they did with establishment of religion, voting rights. etc. This makes both 'sides' unhappy but that is the way it was.

A safety course should be the primary requirement regardless of any of the rest of it. Times change, and far fewer people are raised around firearms from childhood like they were in the past, and that cultural change needs to be accounted for.

the country has been run by judicial fiat since the Civil war, and its no different today; the 'Constitutionality' of anything has long since been irrelevant, it's just whatever gang can pack the Federal benches these days gets to make up whatever laws they want to now. It's just delusional fantasy to believe otherwise.

I dont see anywhere that its left up to the states for anything having to do with the peoples right to be armed,,,

the 2nd makes it clear "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED",,,

I don't care if you can't see it or not. Ideologues are all morons, left or right wingers; they all look alike.and they all end up with the exact same 'order'.

instead of being an ass why not just point out where it says that which you claim???

because the 10th amendment makes it clear it is delegated to the people not the states or feds,,

Why would I waste my time on rebutting rubbish claims? You think the 2nd A magically trumped states' rights for some reason, the sole Amendment to do so, despite all the other Amendments that didn't. The states decided who could vote, whether or not a state could have an established religion, etc. etc, but all of sudden the Feds were granted the absolute power to decide who could shoot everybody else regardless of what the individual states wanted. It's rubbish, and a made up 'universal right' that doesn't exist, as demonstrated over and over and over and over by subsequent state laws for the next 200+ years.

of course it does when you read both the 2nd and the tenth together,,, what youre doing is ignoring all of it,,,

if you only had a specific thing you could point to like I did your opinion might have merit,,

There is nothing in the 10th about unlimited weapon ownership. You can keep claiming that and dance around with the other cultists like you won something, but the fact is it was not a power granted to the Federal govt. and denied the states, by the 10th or any other Amendment.

we arent talking about unlimited ownership so dont change the subject because you dont have proof the states have a right to regulate,,,

it was a power delegated to THE PEOPLE as stated in the 2nd and the 10th,,,

'The People' as defined by the Founders, not you. Their definitions of 'The People' are a lot less broad than you would like.

Wrong....From Heller...

6 What is more, in all six other provisions of the Constitution that mention “the people,” the term unambiguously refers to all members of the political community, not an unspecified subset.

Heller is nothing but another fiat ruling based on ideology, not legal precedent or original intent; it's just another example of judicial fiat replacing the rule of law, something right wingers snivel about but suddenly decide they're all for it, as well as reams of executive orders, when it suits their fantasies. That's why ideologues are worthless shills, whether left or right wingers.

Wrong.....They went through the history of the Right to bear arms going back to England.......step by step, from England to the colonies to the states and their various constitutions........The U.S. has long held the Right to Bear arms as a Right not given by the Constitution but codified in it....

Nah, actually the regulations already existed in the various state constitutions and Assemblies, including who got to vote and who didn't, required property qualifications, and I also posted to an article on how badly 'The People' feel short of producing effective militias and how few people could actually afford to fulfill the basic requirements. Of course you ideologues ignore what anybody else posts and just continue to repeat cut and pastes made up of fake news and fake history, as if all the Founders agreed with each other and you 100% of the time. I.e your ridiculous fantasy versions of history don't reflect anything but your personal fantasies and memes from your treehouse clubs.

 

[progressive hunter]

I think it's very clear the Founders left it to the states to decide such individual issues, and the history bears it out, same as they did with establishment of religion, voting rights. etc. This makes both 'sides' unhappy but that is the way it was.

A safety course should be the primary requirement regardless of any of the rest of it. Times change, and far fewer people are raised around firearms from childhood like they were in the past, and that cultural change needs to be accounted for.

the country has been run by judicial fiat since the Civil war, and its no different today; the 'Constitutionality' of anything has long since been irrelevant, it's just whatever gang can pack the Federal benches these days gets to make up whatever laws they want to now. It's just delusional fantasy to believe otherwise.

I dont see anywhere that its left up to the states for anything having to do with the peoples right to be armed,,,

the 2nd makes it clear "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED",,,

I don't care if you can't see it or not. Ideologues are all morons, left or right wingers; they all look alike.and they all end up with the exact same 'order'.

instead of being an ass why not just point out where it says that which you claim???

because the 10th amendment makes it clear it is delegated to the people not the states or feds,,

Why would I waste my time on rebutting rubbish claims? You think the 2nd A magically trumped states' rights for some reason, the sole Amendment to do so, despite all the other Amendments that didn't. The states decided who could vote, whether or not a state could have an established religion, etc. etc, but all of sudden the Feds were granted the absolute power to decide who could shoot everybody else regardless of what the individual states wanted. It's rubbish, and a made up 'universal right' that doesn't exist, as demonstrated over and over and over and over by subsequent state laws for the next 200+ years.

of course it does when you read both the 2nd and the tenth together,,, what youre doing is ignoring all of it,,,

if you only had a specific thing you could point to like I did your opinion might have merit,,

There is nothing in the 10th about unlimited weapon ownership. You can keep claiming that and dance around with the other cultists like you won something, but the fact is it was not a power granted to the Federal govt. and denied the states, by the 10th or any other Amendment.

we arent talking about unlimited ownership so dont change the subject because you dont have proof the states have a right to regulate,,,

it was a power delegated to THE PEOPLE as stated in the 2nd and the 10th,,,

'The People' as defined by the Founders, not you. Their definitions of 'The People' are a lot less broad than you would like.

Wrong....From Heller...

6 What is more, in all six other provisions of the Constitution that mention “the people,” the term unambiguously refers to all members of the political community, not an unspecified subset.

Heller is nothing but another fiat ruling based on ideology, not legal precedent or original intent; it's just another example of judicial fiat replacing the rule of law, something right wingers snivel about but suddenly decide they're all for it, as well as reams of executive orders, when it suits their fantasies. That's why ideologues are worthless shills, whether left or right wingers.

Wrong.....They went through the history of the Right to bear arms going back to England.......step by step, from England to the colonies to the states and their various constitutions........The U.S. has long held the Right to Bear arms as a Right not given by the Constitution but codified in it....

Nah, actually the regulations already existed in the various state constitutions and Assemblies, including who got to vote and who didn't, required property qualifications, and I also posted to an article on how badly 'The People' feel short of producing effective militias and how few people could actually afford to fulfill the basic requirements. Of course you ideologues ignore what anybody else posts and just continue to repeat cut and pastes made up of fake news and fake history, as if all the Founders agreed with each other and you 100% of the time. I.e your ridiculous fantasy versions of history don't reflect anything but your personal fantasies and memes from your treehouse clubs.

if they did why not post them so we can see them too,,,