Zone1 How old is the Earth in your opinion?

[toobfreak]

Each day of creation was reckoned after God said, "let there be light". The light determined the evening and the morning from which each day was counted.

OK, I'll bite. Mind you, I'm anything but an atheist. Still, I must posit a few points/questions---

• Let there be light: A comprehensive review of known, provable physics tells us that for the first 300,000 years after the Big Bang, the universe was too hot and dense and thus was opaque to light, so if God offered Let there be Light, that had to have been 300,000 years after the universe was born.
• I'm at a loss to believe that God's night and day were anything like our own, seeing that when God was creating the universe for there to be "nights" in between the "days," those earthly days and nights for which the Bible refers did not yet exist for another 9.2 billion years after the universe became transparent to light energy.

The earth was created before light was introduced upon the earth

Meaningless. The Earth could not have been created before the universe was transparent to light as not only was ordinary matter impossible back then, but all our stratigraphic evidence shows the Earth not nearly old enough. But if it only means that the ball of rock that would become the Earth first began forming and accreting before solar light burst forth onto the scene due either to nuclear ignition or there simply being enough dust and gas cleared away for it to get through, I say: So what?

I believe that the seven days of evening and morning were 1000 of our years each.

Well sure, that is the only thing that makes sense. Why would a day in God's life equal the same time period as a day on Earth, one planet among trillions which did not even come into being for billions of years after the creation of the universe? Being that Genesis was written an estimated 1600 years BC, the early farmers, etc., of that time then trying to encapsulated the origin of the world expressed it as best as they could imagine and that others might relate to back then.

So I believe the earth is over 13000 years old but I don't know how much over the 13,000 years that the earth was actually created.

They have measured ice samples deep with glaciers, etc., whose ice is a lot more than 13,000 years old, and they KNOW by means of various tests for known physical processes like atomic decay, various isotopes, etc., for things like carbon and trapped air bubbles in the ice.

NO DOUBT ABOUT IT: The earth was around about 4,599,987,000 years before your 13Kyrs ever got off the ground.

The greatest failing of Christianity is the constant effort to reconcile various statements and suggestions in the Bible with present day understanding of the physics of the universe by trying to invent some pseudoscience uniting the two.

HINT: There is no reconciling everything stated in the Bible with present scientific understanding! But that neither disproves God nor disproves theism. It only proves that not everything written in the Bible can be taken literally.

 

[Zebra]

It is 13.8 billion or 26.7 billion years old

 

[westwall]

It is 13.8 billion or 26.7 billion years old

13.8 billion is one estimate for the age of the universe.

I personally think it is much older than that.

 

[Woodznutz]

Actually, it is pretty settled science. Depending on what stage of accretion you use, the Earth formed about 4.5 to 4.7 billion years ago.

How is that determined?

 

[toobfreak]

How is that determined?

That's a great question but not easily explained. Part of it is based on astrophysical study of outer space, and part of it is based on what we can determine from both observing the Sun and solar system, as well as what can be derived from the Earth's own geological record. You should find a good book or something that goes into trying to explain some of it for a far better explanation.

For instance, one interesting thing most people don't realize is that early after the Earth formed, Jupiter which formed before us, wandered in and disrupted, scattered and rearranged everything. That is why Mars is so small, there is an asteroid belt and probably how another planetary body we named Thea which we estimate to be about the size of between the Moon and Mars crashed into the Earth in a glancing blow and the result of that collision threw part of the Earth combined with part of this other body out into space orbiting us kinda like the ring around Saturn.

When that eventually settled, some of it fell back to Earth and the rest resolved into its own orbiting globule we call the Moon. But originally, the Moon was very close to the Earth and loomed large in the sky orbiting very fast while the atmosphere here on Earth was hotter than an oven under 45X more pressure, with the Earth still spinning so fast that a day was only about 6 hours long!

But over time, dynamic breaking between the Earth and Moon from gravitational (tidal) interaction gradually stopped the spin of the Moon and slowed the rotation of the Earth down to what it is today. And the rest is history.

 

[Cougarbear]

Actually, it is pretty settled science. Depending on what stage of accretion you use, the Earth formed about 4.5 to 4.7 billion years ago.

Science is never settled.

 

[toobfreak]

Science is never settled.

It depends. With some things, yes it is; with other things, no.

• Is it settled that the Earth revolves around the Sun? - Yes.
• Is it settled that the Sun does not move across our sky, that is just the Earth spinning? - Yes.
• Is it settled what the atmosphere is made out of or what the speed of light is in a vacuum? - Yes.
• Are Special and General Relativity settled? - Yes.
• But how did the universe exactly begin - still not settled.
• The absolute true number of dimensions? - not settled.
• Is there a more basic particle than the Quark? - not settled.

 

[Hafar1014]

So far, your responses have been from atheists. My response is that it's unimportant in the grand scheme of things. We are here on earth for just a flicker and we are gone. So, it's more important to believe and have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and follow his teachings to love the Lord thy God with all your heart and then love they neighbor as thyself.
With that said, our fold of human beings began with Adam and Eve about 6,000 years ago. We do not know how long Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden. I know many Christians believe the word "day" in the Bible represent a 1,000 years. But, that's if all things are equal with our understanding of our earth today. After all, according to Genesis, the universe was not observable during the first three days. So, were the other galaxies in existence before the 4th day? "Heaven" in the first verse doesn't mean the galaxies. Heaven is the firmament. What is the firmament? It reads like the firmament or heaven was more a series of river-like structures of unorganized matter. Kind of like plains of energy. Did that any time?

I dont have any desire to believe in Jesus. Christianity is beneath my moral values.

Genesis is an allegory Adam and Eve are metaphors they never existed in reality.

 

[Hafar1014]

Each day of creation was reckoned after God said, "let there be light". The light determined the evening and the morning from which each day was counted. The earth was created before light was introduced upon the earth and we don't have a record of how long before the light was introduced. I believe that the seven days of evening and morning were 1000 of our years each. However we still don't know how long before the light was introduced that the earth was actually created. I believe our temporal existence on earth (from the fall of Adam and Eve to the end of Christ's millennial reign on earth) will be another 7000 years. So right now I believe we are approaching the second coming millennial reign of Jesus. So the earth's seven days of creation was 7000 years and the earth's temporal existence is another 7000 years of which approximately 6000 have nearly transpired. However, this does not include the time from when the earth was created until the time that God introduced light upon the earth. After the millennial reign of Jesus on the earth, the earth will be changed to receive a celestial glory and become part of heaven. So I believe the earth is over 13000 years old but I don't know how much over the 13,000 years that the earth was actually created.

The light was created before the sun. ITs not sunlight. Its enlightenment the human inherent need to create alife with meaning art music poetry give back to humanity. The bearer of enlightenment is Lucifer

 

[Cougarbear]

It depends. With some things, yes it is; with other things, no.

• Is it settled that the Earth revolves around the Sun? - Yes.
• Is it settled that the Sun does not move across our sky, that is just the Earth spinning? - Yes.
• Is it settled what the atmosphere is made out of or what the speed of light is in a vacuum? - Yes.
• Are Special and General Relativity settled? - Yes.
• But how did the universe exactly begin - still not settled.
• The absolute true number of dimensions? - not settled.
• Is there a more basic particle than the Quark? - not settled.

From AI Chrome: Yes, Special Relativity (SR) and General Relativity (GR) are incredibly well-tested and settled within their domains, accurately describing high speeds (SR) and gravity (GR) for most phenomena, but they are considered incomplete because they break down at extreme scales (like black holes/Big Bang) and don't merge with quantum mechanics, requiring a future "Theory of Everything" (Quantum Gravity) for a full picture.

Note the “domains.” But not in other domains. And, many things are being found that also means it’s not completely settled.
Observing the movement of the earth in relation with the sun isn’t science. It’s observation from where you are. The age of the universe and earth with all things on the earth are not settled.

 

[Cougarbear]

I dont have any desire to believe in Jesus. Christianity is beneath my moral values.

Genesis is an allegory Adam and Eve are metaphors they never existed in reality.

You are beneath the morals of Jesus Christ. You have no proof that Adam and Eve did not exist. Proper DNA studies say they do exist.

 

[onefour1]

The light was created before the sun. ITs not sunlight. Its enlightenment the human inherent need to create alife with meaning art music poetry give back to humanity. The bearer of enlightenment is Lucifer

I agree that the light was there before the sun. we know this because of the following verse:

Genesis 1:14-19
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

It wasn't until the 4th day that God set the sun and the moon and stars in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth. So neither the sun, moon or stars were the light that was upon the earth starting with the first day. It must have been a separate light. I do believe it was an actual light because God divided this light from darkness by which he distinguished night from day and was able to distinguish each of the seven days of creation from each other.


Genesis 1:3-5
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

I disagree that Lucifer is the bearer of enlightenment. He is the bearer of deceit.

 

[toobfreak]

From AI Chrome: Yes, Special Relativity (SR) and General Relativity (GR) are incredibly well-tested and settled within their domains, accurately describing high speeds (SR) and gravity (GR) for most phenomena, but they are considered incomplete because they break down at extreme scales (like black holes/Big Bang) and don't merge with quantum mechanics, requiring a future "Theory of Everything" (Quantum Gravity) for a full picture.

Note the “domains.” But not in other domains. And, many things are being found that also means it’s not completely settled.
Observing the movement of the earth in relation with the sun isn’t science. It’s observation from where you are. The age of the universe and earth with all things on the earth are not settled.

You have to rely on AI Chrome to know that? Here are the facts:

1. Everything breaks down at extreme speeds (like approaching c) or within immense gravity (like black holes). This is an unresolved issue is all things physical, because both instances completely alter/warp spacetime (which by definition, is a zone where all physical laws break down and do not apply). So the unresolved question is: are our physics wrong? Or do we simply need another, special set of laws to apply to these extreme states?
2. The problem of Quantum Physics (which is still basically a theory) is that it does not merge with Relativity, which is proven. Which then enters a third problem: Gravity. Gravity is a big problem--- it doesn't agree with anything.

Why? Because gravity is probably an effect related to Dark Matter.

 

[DennisPTate]

There are different opinions about this.

I wonder what you believe.

I used to believe that the earth was about five million years old but then recently a near death experiencer who reports being mentored directly by Jesus for forty three hours and twenty eight minutes, says that Jesus told him that the earth was three point six billion years old. He added that Satan began to fall about seventy million years ago and had fully fallen by about sixty five million years ago. I felt that this was some of the most interesting and potentially useful information that we "Old Earth Creationists" had been given in a century or more.

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Each time he died, he went to Heaven. The 1st time he went to Heaven was for 15 minutes; the 2nd time was for 17 minutes; and the 3rd time was for 43 hours and 28 minutes. In the book 44 Hours in Heaven, he shares what Heaven is like, the conversations he had with Jesus, and what he learned.



The following excerpt from chapter 10 in the book "44 Hours In Heaven" contains what Jesus commanded Robert to do.


Jesus said, "You will worship Me in truth and spirit, and you will do as I command you."


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[Hafar1014]

I agree that the light was there before the sun. we know this because of the following verse:

Genesis 1:14-19
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

It wasn't until the 4th day that God set the sun and the moon and stars in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth. So neither the sun, moon or stars were the light that was upon the earth starting with the first day. It must have been a separate light. I do believe it was an actual light because God divided this light from darkness by which he distinguished night from day and was able to distinguish each of the seven days of creation from each other.


Genesis 1:3-5
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

I disagree that Lucifer is the bearer of enlightenment. He is the bearer of deceit.

Satan is not Lucifer although some religions interpret it that way. Lucifer is the morning star the bearer of enlightenment.
Satan in Hebrew means one who bears false witness. Jews dont have a devil so Satan was used as the name of the devil in Christianity not Judaism.
Theres a lot of confusion but I dont believe ina devil thats child stuff. There is no need for a devil Humans have produced some evil people

 

[DennisPTate]

Satan is not Lucifer although some religions interpret it that way. Lucifer is the morning star the bearer of enlightenment.
Satan in Hebrew means one who bears false witness. Jews dont have a devil so Satan was used as the name of the devil in Christianity not Judaism.
Theres a lot of confusion but I dont believe ina devil thats child stuff. There is no need for a devil Humans have produced some evil people

Near death experiencers are reporting being shown a "Satan" that is much like the "Evil Inclination" or Sitra Achra of Judaism.

1. Introduction to Satan and NDEs​

The concept of an evil entity or entities who are trying to cause people to do bad things is a concept that is probably as old as human history. Perhaps it began when someone committed a wrong against someone and needed a scapegoat – someone to blame their transgressions on. In modern times, the popular phrase is, “The Devil made me do it.” Some people picture such a Devil with horns and a pitchfork. Other people believe he resembles a goat with hooves. Some people believe the Devil is an omnipresent force, instead of a being, who is the arch-enemy of God who tempts people to sin. But the overwhelming consensus in near-death experience (NDE) research is that Satan, as a being, does not exist because no one has encountered such a being in NDEs. NDE research certainly does not support the mainstream Christian view of Satan as the omnipresent arch-enemy of God who inhabits this planet. Nor does NDE research support the existence of “evil” per se. What passes for “evil” is actually mistakes committed out of ignorance – both mental and spiritual. Apparently, we are allowed to make such mistakes for the purpose of education and enlightenment.

2. Evil does not exist – only ignorance​

Some beliefs hold to a dualistic system of good versus evil. It is the belief that there is only one force of goodness (God) and only one force of badness (Satan). In between are humans who are little more than pawns on a big chessboard for these two equally opposing forces to battle over. Throughout history, this belief system has been held by millions and millions of people. But NDE testimonies are giving us much better insights into whether such theological and philosophical concepts are actually valid. NDE testimonies offer us a much more realistic and logical solution to the classical paradox concerning the “problem of evil.” What the religious traditions of the world perceive to be “sins,” NDE testimonies reveal to be “mistakes” which God allows humans to make for the purposes of their higher education and spiritual evolution. What these religious traditions perceive to be “evil,” NDE testimonies reveal to be “ignorance.” What humans perceive as “the devil made me do it,” NDE testimony reveals to be “our own ego and negative thought process.” The following NDE insights reveal the true nature of “Satan”.

Satan and the Near-Death Experience - Near-Death Experiences and the Afterlife

Near-Death Experiences and the Afterlife profiles Satan and the Near-Death Experience . Did you enjoy reading this post, we have more!

near-death.com

 

[onefour1]

Satan is not Lucifer although some religions interpret it that way. Lucifer is the morning star the bearer of enlightenment.
Satan in Hebrew means one who bears false witness. Jews dont have a devil so Satan was used as the name of the devil in Christianity not Judaism.
Theres a lot of confusion but I dont believe ina devil thats child stuff. There is no need for a devil Humans have produced some evil people

Isaiah 14:12-17
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

Doctrine and Covenants 76:25-29
25 And this we saw also, and bear record, that an angel of God who was in authority in the presence of God, who rebelled against the Only Begotten Son whom the Father loved and who was in the bosom of the Father, was thrust down from the presence of God and the Son,
26 And was called Perdition, for the heavens wept over him—he was Lucifer, a son of the morning.
27 And we beheld, and lo, he is fallen! is fallen, even a son of the morning!
28 And while we were yet in the Spirit, the Lord commanded us that we should write the vision; for we beheld Satan, that old serpent, even the devil, who rebelled against God, and sought to take the kingdom of our God and his Christ—
29 Wherefore, he maketh war with the saints of God, and encompasseth them round about.

 

[Hafar1014]

Isaiah 14:12-17
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

We can define it any way we want. Making him a god of evil is evil itself

 

[onefour1]

Moses 4:1-4
1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.
2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.
3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;
4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.

Revelation 12:7-11
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Lucifer was a son of the morning and held high station in heaven before the world was. However, he rebelled against God and his Son and there was a war in heaven. He was eventually cast out of heaven into the earth and became Satan, the devil, the father of lies and will eventually be cast into hell at the end of time.

 

[Hafar1014]

Moses 4:1-4
1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.
2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.
3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;
4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.

Revelation 12:7-11
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Lucifer was a son of the morning and held high station in heaven before the world was. However, he rebelled against God and his Son and there was a war in heaven. He was eventually cast out of heaven into the earth and became Satan, the devil, the father of lies and will eventually be cast into hell at the end of time.

Thats a fairy tale