How much lithium is needed to replace all internal combustion engines in the world?

[ding]

You don't have the math, you only think you do because of your myopia. What I have is history. How many times has the 'math' predicted an end to a resource and how many times has it been right? Start counting from Malthus.

Says the guy who can't come to grips with reality. I'm not predicting the end of something. I am telling you the resource requirement needed to replace internal combustion engines with lithium ion batteries.

 

[alang1216]

Says the guy who can't come to grips with reality. I'm not predicting the end of something. I am telling you the resource requirement needed to replace internal combustion engines with lithium ion batteries.

My bad, I didn't realize we were only talking about your straw man.

 

[ding]

My bad, I didn't realize we were only talking about your straw man.

Is it a straw man or is it reality? You aren't questioning the numbers, right? You agree that the numbers are staggering, right? So why get upset over what the numbers are?

 

[alang1216]

Is it a straw man or is it reality? You aren't questioning the numbers, right? You agree that the numbers are staggering, right? So why get upset over what the numbers are?

The reality never actually happens. Maltus' number were also staggering.

 

[ding]

The reality never actually happens. Maltus' number were also staggering.

The low energy density of batteries says otherwise.

 

[there4eyeM]

If it were really a question of intelligent approaches and practical solutions, there might be a way forward.
With the predictable binary divisions and surreal individual transport expectations that dominate, it is difficult to be optimistic.
As it stands, public attitudes reflect little acceptance of originality or even slight divergence from the present grotesque personal transportation means.
All energy sources might have a place in a sane system. A single energy form only makes us dependent, vulnerable and handicapped.

 

[Kosh]

Top ten biggest lithium mines in the world

From Sonora to Arcadia, Mining Technology ranks the top ten biggest lithium mines in the world, based on proven and probable reserves.

www.mining-technology.com

 

[Kosh]

The devastating environmental impact of technological progress

An insatiable demand for the copper, lithium and rare-earth metals required to fuel the consumer electronics and electric vehicle industries is leaving indelible scars on our fragile planet

www.wired.co.uk

 

[there4eyeM]

The devastation of petroleum extraction, transportation and consumption is rather spectacular.

 

[alang1216]

The low energy density of batteries says otherwise.

The Tesla goes 400 miles on a charge. How much is required to be practical?

 

[there4eyeM]

The Tesla goes 400 miles on a charge. How much is required to be practical?

Imagine the same battery capacity in a car more similar to the VW Beetle. It would be double or more range. A vehicle with one horsepower can move several people at a reasonable inner city speed. Building heavy, high performance electric vehicles may be interesting, but it is very far from being a genuine solution.

 

[alang1216]

Imagine the same battery capacity in a car more similar to the VW Beetle. It would be double or more range. A vehicle with one horsepower can move several people at a reasonable inner city speed. Building heavy, high performance electric vehicles may be interesting, but it is very far from being a genuine solution.

There will never be ONE solution, there will be many. The practical range is very different for a commuter car vs a long haul truck. Self-driving cars will change the calculus even more dramatically.

 

[ding]

The Tesla goes 400 miles on a charge. How much is required to be practical?

Which is great if your Utopia vision is you driving 400 miles but if your Utopia vision is to replace 88 million barrels of oil per day, you can't get there because of the low energy density of battery technology.

17 trillion kg of lithium metal and 8 cubic miles of water every 8 years or so. Can't be done.

It's just math...

 

[Sunsettommy]

Your math skills and your imagination need work. On the other hand, your ideology is strong enough to blind you.

LOL now you are just being an ass since YOU and that name changer never challenged the math claims DING made in the first page of the thread.

When will you post a reply to them?

 

[Sunsettommy]

You don't have the math, you only think you do because of your myopia. What I have is history. How many times has the 'math' predicted an end to a resource and how many times has it been right? Start counting from Malthus.

Where is your counterpoint to his posted math of page one?

Waiting
waiting.....

 

[ding]

The devastation of petroleum extraction, transportation and consumption is rather spectacular.

Really? Compared to using 8 cubic miles of water to mine 17 trillion kg of lithium metal every 8 years or so?

 

[ding]

There will never be ONE solution, there will be many. The practical range is very different for a commuter car vs a long haul truck. Self-driving cars will change the calculus even more dramatically.

Again... can't be done on a global scale. Using 8 cubic miles of water to mine 17 trillion kg of lithium metal every 8 years or so is environmentally and economically impractical.

 

[there4eyeM]

The premise of the thread is false since such replacement by lithium is a false question.

 

[ding]

The premise of the thread is false since such replacement by lithium is a false question.

Actually the point of the thread is that it's not practical to use 8 cubic miles of water to mine 17 trillion kg of lithium every 7 to 10 years.

 

[alang1216]

Which is great if your Utopia vision is you driving 400 miles but if your Utopia vision is to replace 88 million barrels of oil per day, you can't get there because of the low energy density of battery technology.

17 trillion kg of lithium metal and 8 cubic miles of water every 8 years or so. Can't be done.

It's just math...

We will replace a good fraction of that 88M. Not today and not tomorrow and not with one single solution but that is the direction we are headed. We're still using goal but that is declining every. Oil will suffer the same fate. Eventually.