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I lived in the PNW for seven years. It is too far north for solar to be effective,
even on the dry side of the Cascades. On the wet side forget about it.
I think you are lying or else you are living like a hermit and have no real power usage.
Aren't you the one that claimed one time before that your house only uses a couple of kilowatts of power a day?
Hell, my AC uses more than that.
How are your Basic Internet skills?I don't have ideology. I have math. You have ideology. That's why you don't like me saying your emperor has no clothes.
How are your Basic Internet skills?
You give 3 links in your OP but can't/didn't look up THE question directly?
What's your IQ? (if any it is overridden by your politics.)
ding is a TROLL.ding is a special case. He claims to be a trained petroleum engineer who is now retired. He will be VERY fast to tell you how much money he made and what his tax bills are today to impress you but you CAN NEVER ASK HIM TO DISCUSS A TECHNICAL TOPIC IN DETAIL.
He simply can't do it. So far the ONLY technical thing I EVER saw him post in his own words was some random thing about downhole bore pressures in an oil well (something he no doubt googled so he could continue the fiction of his "engineering degree").
Ding doesn't really understand technical topics. You'll find he will studiously avoid math like the plague. He doesn't even know how to make a LITERATURE CITATION. It's weird that he thinks people will believe he got a university degree!
Oh yeah, and he thinks that the Li batteries in an EV are burned up like gasoline and apparently he thinks you have to get new batteries everytime the charge runs low.
He's not very bright. But he's snotty and really, really nasty.
ding is a TROLL.
A last-wording, one-line, Harassment Troll.
So/But I give him credit in this case for attempting a serious and detailed OP/calculation even if he didn't have the common sense to look up the direct answer to his question.
Or if he did look it up, dishonestly didn't post it.
`
This is one of about a thousand things ding posts about Li and autos. It's a facile and stupid point that doesn't bear a relationship to reality.
In ding's mind batteries are like the fuel in the fuel tank.
Let that sink for a minute: a man who CLAIMS to be a trained engineer doesn't know the difference between a rechargeable battery and gasoline.
It's kind of sobering that he honestly thinks he's fooling ANYONE! LOL.
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I lived in the PNW for seven years. It is too far north for solar to be effective, even on the dry side of the Cascades. On the wet side forget about it. I think you are lying or else you are living like a hermit and have no real power usage.
Aren't you the one that claimed one time before that your house only uses a couple of kilowatts of power a day? Hell, my AC uses more than that.
Yes how do we dispose of millions of 1,000 POUND EV Batteries loaded with toxic metals? And should we be concerned about all of the strip mining required to get the toxic metals needed for the EV Batteries? The environmental impacts? The poisoning of the children forced to work in the mines?You can't simply calculate how many electric vehicles (EV) batteries are needed for the worldwide fleet to replace internal combustion engines. First of all there is no exact number of internal combustion engines in the world. Secondly there is variability in the battery size of EV batteries. So the best way to calculate how much lithium is needed to replace all of internal combustion engines in the world is to look at the daily energy consumed by internal combustion engines. This is the amount of EV battery capacity that is needed to operate EV's on a daily basis.
So we have to start with how much oil is produced daily. That number is 88 million barrels of oil per day. Then we need to calculate how much of that oil is actually refined into gasoline and diesel. Approximately 45 percent of a typical barrel of crude oil is refined into gasoline. An additional 29 percent is refined to diesel fuel. So I will start with the assumption that 74% of the 88 million barrels of oil per day is being consumed by ICE engines or 65,120,000 barrels of oil per day (88,000,000 bopd x 0.74 = 65,120,000 bopd). This is the amount of EV battery capacity that is needed to operate EV's on a daily basis.
Next we need to calculate the energy equivalent in kWh of 65,120,000 barrels of oil per day. The energy contained in a barrel of oil is approximately 5.8 million British thermal units (MBtus) or 1,700 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of energy. So there are an equivalent 110,700,000,000 kWh (110,700,000 mWh or 110,700 gWh or 110.7 tWh) in 65,120,000 barrels of oil (65,120,000 bbl of oil x 1700 kWh/bbl of oil = 110,700,000,000 kWh).
Next we need to determine the amount of lithium that is required to produce enough batteries to hold a charge of 110,700,000,000 kWh. The lithium content found in a lithium-ion battery for an electric vehicle is approximately 0.85 kg of lithium carbonate per kWh. This amounts to approximately 0.16kg of Lithium metal/kWh. So the amount of lithium required to produce enough batteries to hold a charge of 110,700,000,000 kWh is 17,713,000,000 kg of lithium metal.
So the answer to the question of how much lithium is needed to replace all internal combustion engines in the world is 17,713,000,000 kg of lithium metal. Which is equal to 17,712,640 metric tons.
Worldwide Oil Produced per day
Global oil production 2022 | Statista
Global oil production amounted to 93.9million barrels per day in 2022.www.statista.com
Percent of Gasoline/Diesel Refined per barrel of oil
kWh Equivalent of a barrel of oil
Lithium metal Required per kWH
How Much Lithium is in an Electric car Battery?_Greenway battery | E-BIKE Battery-Custom Lithium Battery Pack
How Much Lithium is in an Electric car Battery?-Greenway battery | E-BIKE Battery-Custom Lithium Battery Packm.greenway-battery.com
Any questions?
I lived on the desert side during the 1990s working at Hanford. Many times during the summer it got over 100F.You used an A/C while living in the PNW ... what a pig ... low 60's in the height of Summer and you're running an A/C ???
[giggle] ... I'll forgive you if you also owned a boat ... and tell everyone here it rained every day all day long for the entire 7 years ... yeah ... solar sucks big time West Side ... it rains all day every day ... blow through Moss-B-Gone faster than kilowatt-hours ...
Maybe you weren't old enough to pay the electric bill when you lived here ... otherwise you'd know EVs are a great money saving choice ... in the PNW ... where we have tons and bunches of hydro-power from BPA ...
Have you heard my tale of a Priusandvs. the three-digit logging road? ...
Yes sir, we have Palo Verde nuclear plant here in Arizona cranking out 3.9 Million KWs for over 30 years without so much as a hiccup. Over 1/3 rd of our power is generated at Palo Verde.I lived on the desert side during the 1990s working at Hanford. Many times during the summer it got over 100F.
Electricity was so cheap because of hydro power and the nuclear plants that our whole house (4200Ft3) was electric and our bill very seldom went over $100 in either hot summer or cold winter. It would have taken me 100 years to pay off putting in solar panels.
I lived on the desert side during the 1990s working at Hanford. Many times during the summer it got over 100F.
Electricity was so cheap because of hydro power and the nuclear plants that our whole house (4200Ft2) was electric and our bill very seldom went over $100 in either hot summer or cold winter. It would have taken me 100 years to pay off putting in solar panels.
These aren't the bullshit statistics that KissMy posted, you pivoted to new statistics that he wasn't quoting. I called bullshit on the stats that he posted."Both of the mandated warranty numbers (8 years, 100,000 miles) for EV batteries far exceed the average ICE vehicle drivetrain warranty of 5 years or 60,000 miles. The average lifetime mileage of an ICE vehicle is about 133,000 miles. While experts estimate the average EV battery will last around 200,000 miles, some manufacturers already promise much more than that. " SOURCE
How much gasoline was needed to replace all horse drawn carriages in the world?
The average home is about $30K to put in solar in the US. It takes a long time to recoup that amount of money with interest, maintenance and deterioration. Especially "Upnorth" where there are several month of cloudy or overcast skies and low sun during a good portion of the year.Solar was expensive in the 1990's? ... it's lots cheaper now, do the math yourself, it's not that hard, you might be surprised how affordable solar is ... how much longer will your current roof last? ... because putting in piers for solar panels is dirt cheap during a routine re-roof job ... it's the routine re-roofing that's blasted expensive ...
Great questions. The companies that manufacture EV's are each doing their own thing. There is no standard battery design or a plan on how to recycle the batteries after they have reached the end of their life. All of which make it harder to recycle the batteries.Yes how do we dispose of millions of 1,000 POUND EV Batteries loaded with toxic metals? And should we be concerned about all of the strip mining required to get the toxic metals needed for the EV Batteries? The environmental impacts? The poisoning of the children forced to work in the mines?
The OP clearly states we need enough battery capacity to replace the gasoline and diesel consumed on a daily basis. So no. The OP does NOT claim that batteries are like the fuel in the fuel tank.This is one of about a thousand things ding posts about Li and autos. It's a facile and stupid point that doesn't bear a relationship to reality.
In ding's mind batteries are like the fuel in the fuel tank.
Let that sink for a minute: a man who CLAIMS to be a trained engineer doesn't know the difference between a rechargeable battery and gasoline.
It's kind of sobering that he honestly thinks he's fooling ANYONE! LOL.
So the best way to calculate how much lithium is needed to replace all of internal combustion engines in the world is to look at the daily energy consumed by internal combustion engines. This is the amount of EV battery capacity that is needed to operate EV's on a daily basis.
A textbook example of the dunning effectHe's not very bright.
Incorrect.Oh yeah, and he thinks that the Li batteries in an EV are burned up like gasoline and apparently he thinks you have to get new batteries everytime the charge runs low.
the best way to calculate how much lithium is needed to replace all of internal combustion engines in the world is to look at the daily energy consumed by internal combustion engines. This is the amount of EV battery capacity that is needed to operate EV's on a daily basis.
How are your Basic Internet skills?
You give 3 links in your OP but can't/didn't look up THE question directly?
What's your IQ? (it's clearly overridden/buried by YOUR "ideology".)
Jun 26, 2021
Is There Enough Lithium to Make All the Batteries?
""Is there enough lithium on Earth to make enough batteries for everyone to drive an electric vehicle? EVs powered by lithium-ion batteries are the leading technology for the decarbonization of ground transport, so we should hope so. This question has been asked in dozens of ways over the last few years as the battery proves out its energy storage capabilities at scale. As we climb the sigmoid of EV adoption, the battery’s scaled up bill-of-materials becomes significant for the broader battery industry, given that demand for lithium is expected to increase by 6–7x between now and 2030 from around 300,000 tonnes of lithium carbonate equivalent per year (tonnes LCE/year) in 2020 to 2,000,000 tonnes LCE/year in 2030 [1].The simple answer to the question is Yes. The Earth’s crust contains many orders of magnitude More lithium atoms than we will ever need to extract, especially as battery Recycling rises to satisfy demand for lithium and other battery chemicals in the 2030s. For example, the ocean contains 0.2 mg/kg of lithium (compared to continental resources which contain hundreds to tens of thousands of mg/kg). But the scale is so massive that, if the lithium could be extracted economically, the ocean would be the largest lithium resource on the planet by five orders of magnitude compared to any deposit on land discovered to date. The ocean contains around one trillion tonnes LCE, while the largest continental resources contain around ten million tonnes LCE. We just don’t have a commercial-scale technology which can extract it economically today.Discrete continental lithium deposits may be smaller in scale than the ocean, but they are numerous. We know where many of them are and we think we know how to find more, so literal availability is Not an issue. Instead, we need to ask how we will extract the lithium from these deposits. This field of study is called process mineralogy and it asks these questions:[..........][..........]
`
Not enough, and then what about the electric grid?You can't simply calculate how many electric vehicles (EV) batteries are needed for the worldwide fleet to replace internal combustion engines. First of all there is no exact number of internal combustion engines in the world. Secondly there is variability in the battery size of EV batteries. So the best way to calculate how much lithium is needed to replace all of internal combustion engines in the world is to look at the daily energy consumed by internal combustion engines. This is the amount of EV battery capacity that is needed to operate EV's on a daily basis.
So we have to start with how much oil is produced daily. That number is 88 million barrels of oil per day. Then we need to calculate how much of that oil is actually refined into gasoline and diesel. Approximately 45 percent of a typical barrel of crude oil is refined into gasoline. An additional 29 percent is refined to diesel fuel. So I will start with the assumption that 74% of the 88 million barrels of oil per day is being consumed by ICE engines or 65,120,000 barrels of oil per day (88,000,000 bopd x 0.74 = 65,120,000 bopd). This is the amount of EV battery capacity that is needed to operate EV's on a daily basis.
Next we need to calculate the energy equivalent in kWh of 65,120,000 barrels of oil per day. The energy contained in a barrel of oil is approximately 5.8 million British thermal units (MBtus) or 1,700 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of energy. So there are an equivalent 110,700,000,000 kWh (110,700,000 mWh or 110,700 gWh or 110.7 tWh) in 65,120,000 barrels of oil (65,120,000 bbl of oil x 1700 kWh/bbl of oil = 110,700,000,000 kWh).
Next we need to determine the amount of lithium that is required to produce enough batteries to hold a charge of 110,700,000,000 kWh. The lithium content found in a lithium-ion battery for an electric vehicle is approximately 0.85 kg of lithium carbonate per kWh. This amounts to approximately 0.16kg of Lithium metal/kWh. So the amount of lithium required to produce enough batteries to hold a charge of 110,700,000,000 kWh is 17,713,000,000 kg of lithium metal.
So the answer to the question of how much lithium is needed to replace all internal combustion engines in the world is 17,713,000,000 kg of lithium metal. Which is equal to 17,712,640 metric tons.
Worldwide Oil Produced per day
Global oil production 2022 | Statista
Global oil production amounted to 93.9million barrels per day in 2022.
Percent of Gasoline/Diesel Refined per barrel of oil
kWh Equivalent of a barrel of oil
Lithium metal Required per kWH
How Much Lithium is in an Electric car Battery?_Greenway battery | E-BIKE Battery-Custom Lithium Battery Pack
How Much Lithium is in an Electric car Battery?-Greenway battery | E-BIKE Battery-Custom Lithium Battery Pack
Any questions?
