How is Jesus the Messiah?

[Taz]

very good-----then you already know that the "love the lord..... "is a basic prayer----REPEATED incessantly
BY PHARISEE JOOOS I am sorry that this fact makes you bitter and angry

Not playing.
May God bless you and keep you.

What if I have a badly deformed leg, is that a blessing from god?

It in no way prevents you or anyone from striving to become a better person who is whole according to a higher set of standards.

So it’s not a blessing from god?

 

[hobelim]

very good-----then you already know that the "love the lord..... "is a basic prayer----REPEATED incessantly
BY PHARISEE JOOOS I am sorry that this fact makes you bitter and angry

Not playing.
May God bless you and keep you.

What if I have a badly deformed leg, is that a blessing from god?

It in no way prevents you or anyone from striving to become a better person who is whole according to a higher set of standards.

So it’s not a blessing from god?

What do you think?

I think that bitterness and resentment is far more crippling than any physical limitation and thats a curse that you bring upon yourself.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Can someone explain this to me?
As far as i can tell, he didnt meet the requirements. Obviously lol..
So how?

He is doing fine, thanks for asking.

you are welcome!

Not so smart? Man upset Google Home device can’t answer ‘Who is Jesus?’

 

[Taz]

very good-----then you already know that the "love the lord..... "is a basic prayer----REPEATED incessantly
BY PHARISEE JOOOS I am sorry that this fact makes you bitter and angry

Not playing.
May God bless you and keep you.

What if I have a badly deformed leg, is that a blessing from god?

It in no way prevents you or anyone from striving to become a better person who is whole according to a higher set of standards.

So it’s not a blessing from god?

What do you think?

I think that bitterness and resentment is far more crippling than any physical limitation and thats a curse that you bring upon yourself.

I think that if a god made everything, he fucked up on the deformed leg.

 

[ding]

IIRC, didn't Jesus admit he was no king?

Jesus plainly admitted He was King of the Jews. You really need to read the New Testament.

Tn is better with audio books or lots of pictures....

The irony of this post is, he didnt admit it

Why do you think that is ironic?

There is no smoking gun here. In fact if anything it proves the opposite of what you are thinking. What the Jews believed the Messiah to be was not how the prophecy was meant.

Without a doubt Jesus did fulfill the prophecy. Do you see anyone else who fit the bill? No. The Jews have been waiting 2400 years for something that has already happened.

 

[ding]

God in the flesh defies what a human actually is, doesnt it?

Actually, it defies what God is.
God is not at all understandable.
We can only attempt to grasp at what God means by His manifestations.

TN doesn't believe in God so it is natural that he wouldn't believe God could be in flesh.

You yourself say God is not understandable so you would be foolish to say anything good would be beyond his ability.

TN read the verses that supposedly describe why Christians believe Jesus was the messiah.
His reaction to those verses is appropriate.
Either Jesus fulfilled the prophecies (He didn't) or He didn't.

And that was just as fascinating as the other 89 times you told me that.

So far, no one has actually even attempted to make that case.

The OP certainly doesn't make it. It doesn't even try.

Do we need to discuss what the bible says? Do you not read your own holy book?
I know you have. If you were honest, you wouldnt even need me to make the case.

You were the one who made the claim that he didn't fulfill the prophecies, TN. Not me. You.

Do you know why you even said that? Can you articulate what prophecies he did not fulfill?

To argue that it is my fault that I don't know why you believe something is ludicrous. I believe he has fulfilled the prophecies. I have no idea whatsoever why you believe differently. That's for you to articulate. Which you haven't.

 

[Taz]

If Jesus had been a real man, he would have turned water into whiskey, not wine.

 

[ding]

TN is being remarkably objective.

I would say he is being remarkably respectful.

Objective...TN is reading the actual words, not seeing what he wants to see.

We must have different standards of what objective means. Objective means to look at both sides without bias. Have you ever heard TN say anything positive about Christianity? I haven't. It's ax grinding against the dominant religion. Nothing new there. Been going on for centuries. Especially by socialists. I'm not saying TN or you are one of them, but you sure do make it easy for them.

TN is reading what's written, not what he wants to see.
Ergo, TN is being objective.

im a militant atheist because i read stuff and dont imagine things that arent there

Therefore you are a materialist. Who rejects all forms of the spiritual even though you have first hand knowledge of the phenomenon of intelligence; which exists outside the realm of the material world.

As a materialist you must reject everything beyond physical well-being and the accumulation of material goods. You reject all other human requirements and characteristics of a subtle and higher nature. Such that human life does not have any higher meaning to you.

[If, as claimed by humanism, man were born only to be happy, he would not be born to die. Since your body is doomed to death, your task on earth should be more spiritual: not a total engrossment in everyday life, not the search for the best ways to obtain material goods and then their carefree consumption. It has to be the fulfillment of a permanent, earnest duty so that one's life journey may become above all an experience of moral growth: to leave life a better human being than one started it.] Solzhenitsyn

 

[Taz]

you have first hand knowledge of the phenomenon of intelligence

Not from this thread he doesn't.

 

[ding]

I wouldn't have expected you to see it any other way, TN.

It's not like you can be objective about this.

TN is being remarkably objective.

I would say he is being remarkably respectful.

Objective...TN is reading the actual words, not seeing what he wants to see.

We must have different standards of what objective means. Objective means to look at both sides without bias. Have you ever heard TN say anything positive about Christianity? I haven't. It's ax grinding against the dominant religion. Nothing new there. Been going on for centuries. Especially by socialists. I'm not saying TN or you are one of them, but you sure do make it easy for them.

I think the Christian Faith helps some people overcome voids in their lives. Which is a good thing. Of course, every religion does that. But still.
Its better than opium or sucking a different dick every night

That would be the poster child for back handed compliments, TN.

Christianity is better than opium or sucking a different dick every night. Brilliant.

 

[ding]

TN doesn't believe in God so it is natural that he wouldn't believe God could be in flesh.

You yourself say God is not understandable so you would be foolish to say anything good would be beyond his ability.

TN read the verses that supposedly describe why Christians believe Jesus was the messiah.
His reaction to those verses is appropriate.
Either Jesus fulfilled the prophecies (He didn't) or He didn't.

And that was just as fascinating as the other 89 times you told me that.

So far, no one has actually even attempted to make that case.

The OP certainly doesn't make it. It doesn't even try.

According to the NT, man has zero free will.
So how did Jesus fail when man has zero free will?
I'm sorry, my friend, the Church never made sense and never will.

Why do you, a Jew, believe the NT, which is a Christian religious text, say that "according to the NT, man has zero free will?"

Because I don't know any Christian who believes that the NT tells them that they have no free will.

All Jews read the NT at one point or another to see what Christians believe in.
You have to read your NT because you didn’t read the many verses that ridicule education and not being subservient to all mankind.
Anyone who does not believe in the Calvary and perform acts is a child of Satan.
Don’t just read the verses cherry picked by the RCC.

I don't have to read anything. I have a personal relationship with my Creator.

Don't you?

You didn't answer my question. What makes you believe the NT teaches we have no free will?

 

[ding]

And that was just as fascinating as the other 89 times you told me that.

So far, no one has actually even attempted to make that case.

The OP certainly doesn't make it. It doesn't even try.

According to the NT, man has zero free will.
So how did Jesus fail when man has zero free will?
I'm sorry, my friend, the Church never made sense and never will.

Why do you, a Jew, believe the NT, which is a Christian religious text, say that "according to the NT, man has zero free will?"

Because I don't know any Christian who believes that the NT tells them that they have no free will.

All Jews read the NT at one point or another to see what Christians believe in.
You have to read your NT because you didn’t read the many verses that ridicule education and not being subservient to all mankind.
Anyone who does not believe in the Calvary and perform acts is a child of Satan.
Don’t just read the verses cherry picked by the RCC.

IMHO all jews read the NT because WE ALL GET THEM from friendly old lady Christians.
Those tiny little pocket size things were ALL OVER THE PLACE in my childhood. I do not
remember verses that ridicule education-----but I never understood what the writers had
against "SCRIBES" ........"scribes"???? "evil scribes"??? anyone?

Scribes = Educated = Arrogant.
The last thing Paul wanted around was an educated Jew who could call out his bulkshit.

Sometimes I wish I could be as insulting towards the spiritual beliefs of others but then I remember what that really means and I put my pride away.

 

[ding]

good idea HOBE-------I have nothing against Jesus----which is why I do not
buy into the "I Won't wash my hands" story

The I wont wash my hands story is about the dispute Jesus had with the establishment about what defiles a person according to the teaching of divine law.

Remember?

Its not what goes into the mouth the defiles a person.....

I remember it very well------which is why I do not believe it. According to the writings in the
NT------the followers of Jesus made a POINT of not washing their hands before eating
IN ORDER TO DEMONSTRATE the point that all restrictions on that which a person eats
are worthless. The idea is consistent TOO MUCH with the popular roman orgy. At the time,
ROME was obsessed with unbridled gluttony. IT IS FAR TOO CONTRIVED to be credible.
From where do you get the "dispute Jesus had with the establishment regarding divine law"??
To what establishment do you refer?

His friends were common working class unrefined people. They were just being themselves, not deliberately provoking a dispute. The Pharisee objected to their low class habits because they thought that they were so pure.

Thats when Jesus revealed that the subject of what defiles a person is what comes out of the mouth, the produce of the mind, which is a direct reference to kosher law.

Must have been very embarrassing to be bested by a foul mouthed wise guy and his rag tag group of peasants...

from where do you get the idea that the "friends" of Jesus were "rag tag peasants"? his mother?
his father? can you name a few of these brutes? John the Baptist? Handwashing before
eating was not an exclusive habit of the aristocracy. Poor illiterate people did it. It was and IS
an ingrained social custom------still is. The jews from the most backward countries do it-----even the
Kurdish jews. Children grow up with it. My illiterate grandfather did it. (I am not sure what the literate
one did------he was from England) It is obvious to me from reading the NT that Jesus----son of a
Carpenter ------was EDUCATED-------who was the foul mouthed peasant?

The Apostles were uneducated Tax Collectors and fishermen.

Yes, and Jesus was a convicted criminal put to death by the super power of the day. And yet his 3 1/2 year ministry made a profound impact on the course of mankind which has lasted 2000 years.

 

[ding]

Yes, I can. According to the Gospels Jesus had no human father. It means that king David is not his ancestor.

Except that King Davis is his ancestor through his mother Mary.

Next.

Maternal line in this case is irrelevant. According to the biblical view the rights of royal succession are determined through paternal biological descent.

Verse?

Hmm.. Is there a quote in Tanakh that Jewish kohanim are required to be of direct patrilineal descent from the biblical Aaron?
I think this is a traditional belief that the right of lineal privilege, that is, kingship and priesthood, are exclusively passed on through the male line.

I’m on my phone but Kohanim have always been from the father, not the mother.

And prophecies don't go unfulfilled for 2400 years.

 

[ding]

Scribes = Educated = Arrogant.
The last thing Paul wanted around was an educated Jew who could call out his bulkshit.

Paul had educated Jews (James for one) who did take steps to make sure Paul was not misunderstood.

Paul had a breakthrough in his thinking. He began focusing more on the grace of God and found that to be equally (if not more) powerful as the law of God.

Name the educated Apostles.

Wouldn't it be ironic if what you see as a weakness was really a strength?

 

[ding]

Name the educated Apostles.

It is my understanding that it was common for Jews of that time period to educate their children. Jesus' apostles were Jews, i.e. former Jewish children. Jesus, for example, could both read and write. Why would his fellow compatriots be any different from him or others of that time period? Which Apostles do you believe were uneducated?

Not every Jew went to college.
The Apostles, as you are fully aware of, were uneducated fishermen and tax collectors.

I remember in Acts the temple guards were annoyed because paul and john were teaching the people there and they werent supposed to. Teaching about resurrection and they didnt believe in that. Chapter 3 or 4, i think

I think you got it.
There is a rather nasty exchange.
In reality, the Priests would have them executed.

My opinion of you has changed today.

Not because we have different beliefs but because you can't back up any of your beliefs about my religion and all of your beliefs about my religion are negative.

You have no balance.

 

[admonit]

I enjoy watching christians take a jewish prophecy and tell them they have it wrong

Christians have no choice.

 

[irosie91]

The I wont wash my hands story is about the dispute Jesus had with the establishment about what defiles a person according to the teaching of divine law.

Remember?

Its not what goes into the mouth the defiles a person.....

I remember it very well------which is why I do not believe it. According to the writings in the
NT------the followers of Jesus made a POINT of not washing their hands before eating
IN ORDER TO DEMONSTRATE the point that all restrictions on that which a person eats
are worthless. The idea is consistent TOO MUCH with the popular roman orgy. At the time,
ROME was obsessed with unbridled gluttony. IT IS FAR TOO CONTRIVED to be credible.
From where do you get the "dispute Jesus had with the establishment regarding divine law"??
To what establishment do you refer?

His friends were common working class unrefined people. They were just being themselves, not deliberately provoking a dispute. The Pharisee objected to their low class habits because they thought that they were so pure.

Thats when Jesus revealed that the subject of what defiles a person is what comes out of the mouth, the produce of the mind, which is a direct reference to kosher law.

Must have been very embarrassing to be bested by a foul mouthed wise guy and his rag tag group of peasants...

from where do you get the idea that the "friends" of Jesus were "rag tag peasants"? his mother?
his father? can you name a few of these brutes? John the Baptist? Handwashing before
eating was not an exclusive habit of the aristocracy. Poor illiterate people did it. It was and IS
an ingrained social custom------still is. The jews from the most backward countries do it-----even the
Kurdish jews. Children grow up with it. My illiterate grandfather did it. (I am not sure what the literate
one did------he was from England) It is obvious to me from reading the NT that Jesus----son of a
Carpenter ------was EDUCATED-------who was the foul mouthed peasant?

The Apostles were uneducated Tax Collectors and fishermen.

Yes, and Jesus was a convicted criminal put to death by the super power of the day. And yet his 3 1/2 year ministry made a profound impact on the course of mankind which has lasted 2000 years.

so? do did Karl Marx

 

[ding]

I enjoy watching christians take a jewish prophecy and tell them they have it wrong

According to them, the prophecy is unfulfilled. For 2400 years.

Is this lost on you? Or do you plan on using it to attack Jews later?

 

[irosie91]

Except that King Davis is his ancestor through his mother Mary.

Next.

Maternal line in this case is irrelevant. According to the biblical view the rights of royal succession are determined through paternal biological descent.

Verse?

Hmm.. Is there a quote in Tanakh that Jewish kohanim are required to be of direct patrilineal descent from the biblical Aaron?
I think this is a traditional belief that the right of lineal privilege, that is, kingship and priesthood, are exclusively passed on through the male line.

I’m on my phone but Kohanim have always been from the father, not the mother.

And prophecies don't go unfulfilled for 2400 years.

why not?