How Is Anti-Semitism/Anti-Zionism Useful?

Annie

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Interesting essay:

http://politicscentral.com/2006/08/15/the_uses_of_antisemitism_by_ne.php
The Uses of Anti-Semitism by Nelson Ascher

The Past is Prologue
In this essay, exclusive to PJM, Nelson Ascher observes, We are spending precious time getting surprised or scared, wondering about the hatred itself, its depth and extension. That’s important, but not what’s most important right now. What we need to understand is that this hatred is being once again used cynically to obtain certain results.

We all have spent too much time talking about the widespread anti-Semitism in the Muslim world and discovering, to our surprise, that many in the West actually share this feeling, while many more couldn’t really care less. This is a mistaken approach.

Instead of trying to understand “why they hate us” and why they (and many others) hate the Jews (something I hope we’ll be discussing for several generations), what we have to understand right now is: what is anti-Semitism good for? What are the uses of anti-Semitism?

Whether those who manipulate anti-Semitism are themselves anti-Semites (or anti-Zionists or whatever), whether they personally share the hatred, all that is irrelevant right now. The historical roots of the hatred, its psychology and so on are not questions we have the time to analyse, dissect, discuss endlessly nowadays. (And we’re still debating the Holocaust, how and why it happened etc., 62 years after the end of WW2, without having reached anything resembling consensual answers.)

We are spending precious time getting surprised or scared, wondering about the hatred itself, its depth and extension. That’s important, but not what’s most important right now. What we need to understand is that this hatred is being once again used cynically to obtain certain results.

Besides being anti-Semitic themselves, the Nazis used anti-Semitism brilliantly to subvert other countries and societies. Though Nazism was (among other things) a form of German expansionism, wherever there were anti-Semites the Germans would also find collaborators. Anti-Semitism was used by the Germans to undermine from the inside countries, societies and armies that could or would stand up to them.

The Nazis managed to convince millions and millions of Frenchmen and Poles, Belgians, Norwegians etc. and, yes, Brits and Americans that, since they were fighting a common enemy, the Jews, they weren’t really the mortal enemies of France and Poland and Belgium and Norway and England and the US. Untold millions were eager to believe that Germany wasn’t really threatening them and their countries, that the Germans didn’t really want to conquer, exploit and kill them. Why? Because they either thought that they could make a common cause with the Nazis against the Jews, or remained indifferent, neutral and defenseless because, being indifferent to the fate of the Jews, they believed it was none of their problem. Many of them even turned against those in their own countries who wanted to fight the Nazis and blamed them for putting everyone else in danger just to “protect the Jews”.

In short: if the Jews were used in the beginning as scapegoats, their main use throughout the war was as a tool to “divide and conquer”. Thanks to their sincere or opportunistic ant-Semitism the Germans were able to paralyse important forces in the countries and societies they wanted to defeat and submit.

That’s just what is happening once again before our very eyes. Though the Jihadists have their own clear, even megalomaniac goals, and while they kill thousands in the US or fight for Shari’a in Europe, while they complain about East Timor or fight for Kashmir, it is enough for them to involve the Jews, particularly Israel, in their struggle or their declared agenda to get the active support or at least the indifference of those in Europe, the US and elsewhere who would like to believe that their complaints, grievances and goals are restricted to or only motivated by Israel. Of course, they also declare they’re fighting against America, but then, for those who hate America anyway (and often the Jews and/or Israel too), the same logic works perfectly.

The Jihadists have shown us how brilliantly they can manipulate for their own purposes something as irrelevant as half-a-dozen cartoons in a Danish newspaper. Thus, it is rather unimportant whether Israel’s destruction is or isn’t their main goal (it isn’t). They seem to have discovered through trial and error that the hatred of Jews is alive and well in the West and, as the Nazis did before, they are using it not only to further their own different goals, but to recruit collaborators and to paralyze whole countries and societies as well. It goes without saying how terrible this is for the Jews themselves, but it is at least as dangerous to the rest of the West that is allowing anti-Semitism to be used against itself. Hatred of the Jews and of Israel is the loaded weapon the Jihadis are putting in the hands of a civilization that’s willing (again) to commit suicide.


Nelson Ascher is a journalist, essayist and poet who works for Globo News in Sao Paulo.
 

Nuc

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Nice article. I think most anti-Semites are simply jealous because Jews are probably the smartest group of people on the planet. Smarter than them. :huh:
 

theHawk

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My God, what a bunch of garbage -

Whether those who manipulate anti-Semitism are themselves anti-Semites (or anti-Zionists or whatever), whether they personally share the hatred, all that is irrelevant right now.
There we have it, if you aren't supportive of the Zionist movement you just as well may be an anti-semite. Its "irrelevant"? Wow, I cannot believe someone would write this crap. Its "irrelevant" that maybe we should look at the historical facts concerning the formation of the state of Israel by the U.N. on land taken from Arabs? NOTHING could be more RELEVANT to the shit that is going on today in the ME.

But hey, lets just ignore all the facts, nod our heads in vigorous agreement and send large portions of our paychecks off to Israel so they can continue to live their pipe dream. And hell, when push comes to shove lets even send our troops to defend Israel. Because you know, the fate of the world hangs in the balance. I don't know how all the democracies of the world managed to survive before 1948, but now all of a sudden all democracy and freedom depends on Israel's pipe dream.
Give me a fucking break. :smoke:



Thus, it is rather unimportant whether Israel’s destruction is or isn’t their main goal (it isn’t). They seem to have discovered through trial and error that the hatred of Jews is alive and well in the West and, as the Nazis did before, they are using it not only to further their own different goals, but to recruit collaborators and to paralyze whole countries and societies as well.
Ohhh yea, next thing you know we'll be sympathetic to Jihadists killing innocent Americans just because we have the same "goals". What a croc of shit.

I highly doubt there are tons of people that "hate the Jews". But I am sure there are more and more that will get pissed off at the Zionist Jews that expect us to fund their pipe dream without question. What else do you expect when you rob people of their own money straight out of their paychecks? If its such a sympathetic and moral cause why not rely on charity donations? Zionism has nothing to do with America's basic freedoms that need to be defended by our federal government, and its a travesty that our lawmakers simply nod their heads and send our tax money to this hopeless and idiotic cause every year.:puke3:
 

trobinett

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My God, what a bunch of garbage -



There we have it, if you aren't supportive of the Zionist movement you just as well may be an anti-semite. Its "irrelevant"? Wow, I cannot believe someone would write this crap. Its "irrelevant" that maybe we should look at the historical facts concerning the formation of the state of Israel by the U.N. on land taken from Arabs? NOTHING could be more RELEVANT to the shit that is going on today in the ME.

But hey, lets just ignore all the facts, nod our heads in vigorous agreement and send large portions of our paychecks off to Israel so they can continue to live their pipe dream. And hell, when push comes to shove lets even send our troops to defend Israel. Because you know, the fate of the world hangs in the balance. I don't know how all the democracies of the world managed to survive before 1948, but now all of a sudden all democracy and freedom depends on Israel's pipe dream.
Give me a fucking break. :smoke:




Ohhh yea, next thing you know we'll be sympathetic to Jihadists killing innocent Americans just because we have the same "goals". What a croc of shit.

I highly doubt there are tons of people that "hate the Jews". But I am sure there are more and more that will get pissed off at the Zionist Jews that expect us to fund their pipe dream without question. What else do you expect when you rob people of their own money straight out of their paychecks? If its such a sympathetic and moral cause why not rely on charity donations? Zionism has nothing to do with America's basic freedoms that need to be defended by our federal government, and its a travesty that our lawmakers simply nod their heads and send our tax money to this hopeless and idiotic cause every year.:puke3:
I'll tell you what Hawk, you don't mince words, and I for one appreciate that.

I'm confused when it comes to the Jews, and the state of Israel, I didn't do well in my "middle east studies", and you don't seem confused at all to all the rhetoric coming out these days, for that I thank you.

It appears, at least to me, that things will only become MORE confused in the days ahead.

Keep a clear head Hawk, and also, keep an open mind.

Thanks.
 

theHawk

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I do keep an open mind.

But let me clarify my opinions on the subject of Israel and Zionism.
I personally have nothing against the idea of zionism, that being the idea of a group of people (whether it be Jews, Christians, Muslims, communists...) forming their own country so a large community of people that share the same beliefs can live under the laws they prefer in peace.

What I do have a problem with is the fact that nobody seems to want to admit that maybe it was perhaps a mistake to grant the particular land in question to Israel. We could also debate the legality of the UN giving the land to Israel in 1948, but that really isn't the point. It doesn't matter if it was 'legal' or 'illegal', what does matter is people are still willing to fight for it. If the Arabs of that area and the Jews both want to fight over the land, fine. I have no problem with two groups of people fighting over land. Its been done countless times throughout history, it is how countries are made.

What kills me is that many people on this board claim to be conservative, or at the very least "fiscal conservatives". But Neocon or Lib, it seems like most people have lost sight of what being fiscally conservative means. Liberal-socialists may argue that more federal tax money should be spent on education, or health care. Conservatives argue it should be taxed on a local level or paid through private organizations. I think most conservatives would argue that federal taxes should only fund the most basic needs to run the country.
For example - Tax the citizens to fund our military to protect us from foreign threats. Tax the citizens to fund offices of the government(Congress, ect.) Tax people to fund the Judicial branch(courts, prisons ect). Libs might want to tax us for more things, such as health care, education, ect ect. But that is all a moot point. I could live with Liberals in power overtaxing us for such things, because at least that money would be used for our own citizens. I may not agree that taxing through the federal government is the most efficient way, and I will vote against it the next election, but I can at least live with it. But taxing us to fund a foreign goverment's military? Notice above I stated "Tax the citizens to fund our military"....."our military", not another country's. Where is it in our Constitution that allows us to be taxed soley to fund foreign governments?

Now I don't have a problem with our Federal government providing temporary aid to another country. Tsunami? Fine, give some relief if it saves lives. But funding a country's military year after year, decade after decade with billions of taxpayer dollars? All without a peep of a debate? One Third of all of our foreign aid goes to Israel. We literally hand them billions of our tax dollars every year as "aid". Then on top of that we give them federal loans and make the American taxpayer pay the interest! Hot damn, wouldn't you guys love it if someone else paid the interest on your home mortgage loan? Well thats exactly what the Israelis get, all at our expense.

And where are all the "fiscal conservative" politicans at? They're in congress every year with the same old 'nod the head and sign the check' mindset that has become so routine no one even bothers to ask the American taxpayer if they wish for their money to be sent to this cause. Its all just assumed every American believes in Israel's "Right to Exist", and somehow the "right to exist" has been translated into "the right to tax you for Zionism". I believe the Sudan has a "right to exist", why aren't I being taxed to fund their military?

Is it too much to just ask to have your voice heard? Is it too much to have a say in where our tax dollars are spent? If the vast majority of Americans want their tax dollars to go to this cause, thats great, all I am asking is they give us the choice.
 

Bonnie

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Hawk I understand your point of view as you laid it out in the last paragraph, but Im confused on something, it is your assertion that the only reason terrorism exists is due to the support Israel gets from us and the fact that the UN gave them a few hundred square miles to live on?
 

Gunny

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Hawk I understand your point of view as you laid it out in the last paragraph, but Im confused on something, it is your assertion that the only reason terrorism exists is due to the support Israel gets from us and the fact that the UN gave them a few hundred square miles to live on?
Fact is, OBL declared jihad on the US because we dared set foot on Arab soil. Had absolutely NOTHING to do with Israel, so we'd be targets of Islamic terrorism with or without Israel.
 

theHawk

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Fact is, OBL declared jihad on the US because we dared set foot on Arab soil. Had absolutely NOTHING to do with Israel, so we'd be targets of Islamic terrorism with or without Israel.

I think its a little of both, their religion has made them so racist and truely intolerant they could not stand the idea of whiteboys in Saudi Arabia. But there has always been alot of hatred toward America due to our blind support of Israel.

That being said I would still not say that the above two reasons are the only reasons for terror attacks. The West has been on a collision course with the Islamic world and now it is happening. The time has come for the West to face Islam on the battlefield. In order to win this war we will need to do some very ugly things, because this truely is the toughest enemy we have ever faced.
 

Gunny

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I think its a little of both, their religion has made them so racist and truely intolerant they could not stand the idea of whiteboys in Saudi Arabia. But there has always been alot of hatred toward America due to our blind support of Israel.

That being said I would still not say that the above two reasons are the only reasons for terror attacks. The West has been on a collision course with the Islamic world and now it is happening. The time has come for the West to face Islam on the battlefield. In order to win this war we will need to do some very ugly things, because this truely is the toughest enemy we have ever faced.
Let me correct you a bit. Wahabbism is the Islamic sect in Saudia Arabia. It was born out of fear of the Shia. It teaches hatred for the West, and US in particular, without attaching us to Israel.

OBL stated that because we set foot in Saudi Arabia, THAT is the reason he declared jihad against the US. He at least has not dishonestly tried to tie it to Israel.

As far as your last statement goes, I find it rather ironic that it is indeed Israel who is willing to do the "ugly" things, and we are not.
 

Bonnie

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Fact is, OBL declared jihad on the US because we dared set foot on Arab soil. Had absolutely NOTHING to do with Israel, so we'd be targets of Islamic terrorism with or without Israel.
I think Israel has become a convenient excuse for Islamic hatred of the West, afterall it's the one thing many Muslims concur with.

But I think anyone who says we are headed for World War III if we dont' stop Iran is 100% correct. So Israel is a rather moot point in the grand scheme of things.
 

theHawk

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As far as your last statement goes, I find it rather ironic that it is indeed Israel who is willing to do the "ugly" things, and we are not.
Israel has done nothing of what is really necessary to win this war. Bombing some houses and killing a few hundred civilians doesn't accomplish anything.
To kill this snake, we're going to have to cut off its head.
 

Bonnie

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Israel has done nothing of what is really necessary to win this war. Bombing some houses and killing a few hundred civilians doesn't accomplish anything.
To kill this snake, we're going to have to cut off its head.

I agree with you that in this case they blew it, they should have used the few weeks they had using much more force.
 

BaronVonBigmeat

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Hawk I understand your point of view as you laid it out in the last paragraph, but Im confused on something, it is your assertion that the only reason terrorism exists is due to the support Israel gets from us and the fact that the UN gave them a few hundred square miles to live on?
Funding for Israel is only one symptom of a broader disease--US interventionism in foreign lands. For example, stationing troops in Saudi Arabia and enacting a blockade of Iraq during the Clinton years.
 

Gunny

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Israel has done nothing of what is really necessary to win this war. Bombing some houses and killing a few hundred civilians doesn't accomplish anything.
To kill this snake, we're going to have to cut off its head.
It's a step in the right "kill 'em all" direction, isn't it?:thup:
 

Gunny

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Funding for Israel is only one symptom of a broader disease--US interventionism in foreign lands. For example, stationing troops in Saudi Arabia and enacting a blockade of Iraq during the Clinton years.
We were in Saudi Arabia by invitation, and the sanctions against Iraq were by the UN, not just the US.
 

trobinett

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When I get confused on a subject, I generally start to "follow the money", most times it clears things up pretty quick.

In this instance, looks like Hawk makes a pretty good argument AGAINTS us pouring mega-bucks into Israel, but WHAT is it, that causes us to do it anyway?

There MUST be an "up side", or we wouldn't be doing it, would we?

Is there a fox in the hen house?:dunno:
 

BaronVonBigmeat

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We were in Saudi Arabia by invitation, and the sanctions against Iraq were by the UN, not just the US.
We were in Arabia at the invitation of their government, not their people. Like many countries in the region, the rulers of Arabia do things their people don't like.

The sanctions were endorsed by the U.N., but they were still a bad idea. Untold thousands died because of it (remember Madeline Albright's infamous "we think it was worth it" quote?), and it didn't do anything to remove Saddam from power. It was also widely viewed as being pushed by the US, and the UN is (IIRC) viewed as a puppet of the US.
 

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The US is seen by many as a puppeteer in that regard...
Only by fools ignorant of the facts. The government of Kuwait hired the US as mercenaries for gold, and off we went.

But Hell, that makes the US sound like badasses; which, just won't do to you lefties. Nothing less than weak, third-rate, and emasculated satisfies y'all's lust to denigrate the Nation from which you hail, and you're more than willing to fabricate/tailor the facts to suit your stories.
 

Gunny

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We were in Arabia at the invitation of their government, not their people. Like many countries in the region, the rulers of Arabia do things their people don't like.

The sanctions were endorsed by the U.N., but they were still a bad idea. Untold thousands died because of it (remember Madeline Albright's infamous "we think it was worth it" quote?), and it didn't do anything to remove Saddam from power. It was also widely viewed as being pushed by the US, and the UN is (IIRC) viewed as a puppet of the US.
Being in a Nation at the invitation of the government is normally how that works. Which nation is it where the people are polled to see if they want us?

The fact is, it was fine for us to be in Saudi Arabia with everyone but those of bin Laden's ilk, and the Monday-morning, armchair quarterbacks attempting to revise history to suit their arguments.

You opinion that the sanctions were a bad idea is just THAT ... your opinion. Do they just not teach the actual, fact-based chain of events that led the First Gulf War, or what?

There was never any plan at that time to remove Saddam from power. President Bush had to agree not to pursue removing Saddam from power, but only his removal from Kuwait, in order for us to be allowed to have a base in Saudi Arabia, and unrestricted use of Arab airspace, and the support of Arab Nations in the coalition.

That "Bush didn't finish the job" crap stinks from 1991 to here. The left has ignored the facts in favor of partisan hackery.

And WHO thought the UN was the puppet of the US? The same people who apparently see the US a a puppet?

The fact is, had Bush not honored his word to both the Arab Nations and the UN and gone on after Saddam, the left would be calling HIM the rogue cowboy instead of his son.
 

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