How do we stop "the poor" from being so problematic?

Folks...take a step back for a moment. Take a deep breath. And now consider the position of the left - which is essentially this:

If a person has a "need" they have every right to take by force (though government) that which does not belong to them. This is completely and totally "rational" in the mind of a left-wing lunatic. If you can't afford healthcare, you have a right to steal it from someone else. If you can't afford housing, you have a right to steal it from someone else.

Now let's just apply their "logic" equally here. Let's just say that I'm not terribly successful with the ladies. Let's say I've gone a year without having sex. By left-wing "logic", since they are entitled to take 20% of my healthcare, I'm equally entitled to take 20% of their wife. I mean....what about my "needs"? I should be able to take 20% of their wife by force. So 73 days per year I can have a left-wingers wife ANY way I want to have her.

And what if you can't have children? Some couples can't. Well, again, by left-wing "logic" I am entitled to their children 73 days per year. They must stay in my home, entertain me, etc. And there isn't a damn thing they can do about it. I'm entitled to it by their own logic. Just like I can't stop them from stealing my income for housing, food, healthcare, etc., they can't stop me from stealing their wife and children 20% of the time. The U.S. Constitution says so!

Cool story.

The people who need aren't stealing your money. The government has identified those who are needy, and dictated that you will pay into a system that will keep those people alive and functioning members of society. If anyone is stealing, it's your government.

And you are not paying 20% of your income to support the needy.

I mean, you may disagree with the whole process, but at least get the specifics right.
 
Conservatives have never been able to come up with a way of punishing the parents for being poor without punishing the children.
First of all - conservatives have no desire to punish anyone for being poor. People are as welcome to be as poor as they'd like to be in America.

As far as what to do for the "children" (the favorite faux tragedy of the disingenuous left-wing) - well I solved that years ago. You simply place the parents in prison for "child endangerment" if they don't properly provide food, shelter, and healthcare for their children. Then you place those parents in prison on a chain-gang and you work them 12 hours per days on various forms of public infrastructure. The tax-payer dollars saved on that public infrastructure goes to the basic needs of their children (i.e. the healthcare, food, etc. that the parent wasn't providing).

So simply...only a Dumbocrat could find it an "unsolvable" problem.

Are they being fed and doctored in a cage? The biggest part of parenting is nurturing, discipline, and supervision.
 
So who is at fault with your scenario?

Maybe if Suzy didn't have the federal government to depend on taking care of her kids while her husband went out and drank, she would have never chanced having a kid in the first place unless she knew her relationship and future were secure.
What difference does it make? Unless we are planning on extracting some form of punishment or retribution, fault is irreverent.

Assuming these people are teens or in their early twenties, they are not considering goverment support when they have sex. In fact, it's probably the last thing on their mind.

It's the last thing on their mind as is being irresponsible and careless because there is always a lending hand in our government unfortunately.

If you promote irresponsibility, don't be surprised if you end up with more irresponsible people. Now let me ask: do you think we have more irresponsible people today or more in 1960?

Even kids have to make life changing decisions. You can get your kid a drivers license at the age of 16 in most states, but that doesn't stop them from getting drunk one night and killing a family in an auto accident. Their age doesn't excuse their actions. They have to pay one way or another for making that mistake.
You're comparing apples and oranges. Getting drunk and killing someone in a car accident is a criminal offense. Having a child is not. In fact, 37% of all children born in the US are unexpected or an accident.

A surprising number of people consider the birth of child, even to poor people to be a good thing.

When we're talking about tax payer dollars to support children in poverty, what their parents did or did not do is irrelevant unless you consider punishing the children is the proper course of action.

So the parents get immunity because of their children???

It's not apples and oranges in the sense of responsibility. You kill people because you got drunk and drove a vehicle, you pay. You get pregnant and have a child you can't support--taxpayers pay? Where is the equity in that?

There is no such thing as an accidental pregnancy. An accidental pregnancy implies that you got pregnant through no fault of your own. Kind of like you were just walking down the street minding your own business and tripped over something.
Unfortunately, yes parents do get immunity; that is they get food and shelter because they have children to raise. Conservatives have never been able to come up with a way of punishing the parents for being poor without punishing the children.

Conservative's war against the poor has reached a new low. In red states like Alabama, where many students are on reduced price lunches, school officials put tags on children that say, "I need lunch money", so kids will be shamed by their classmates in hopes that will cause parents to come up with lunch money.

New Mexico recently passed a law forbidden schools from punishing children with negative lunchroom balances. Some school serve kids without money the "sandwich of same" which is a slice of cheese between two slices of white bread. Other schools force children without lunch money to clean the lunchrooms in front of their classmates to work off the debt. Probably the worst incident was a 3rd grader who was forced to wear a sign that his parents were deadbeats resulting in a beating by classmates and his removal from the school.
New Mexico Outlaws School ‘Lunch Shaming’

Sorry I don't trust the Dailylunch.com, but I don't. Neither do I trust the NY Times which is an arm of the Democrat party.

As for ways to punish the parents instead of the children, I came up with an idea long ago: anybody applying for public assistance has to be fixed before getting one red cent. That's it. No more having children while on welfare.

School lunch? I remember that when I was in school. The kid with the free lunch would sell it at half price to a kid who's parents gave him lunch money. Then he would buy a candy bar or something. The rest of the money both kids saved they used to buy cigarettes or pot. Great program.

I don't know what school lunch costs today because it's subsidized by the taxpayers anyway, but let's say that a lunch costs four dollars. Four dollars is twenty bucks a week. If a parent doesn't have twenty bucks to give to their kid, that kid should be taken away from the parents.

Plus I would be willing to bet anything that many of those kids with free lunch belong to a family that uses food stamps and can easily make a lunch from that stipend. And I would bet that most of those kids getting free lunch have a cell phone with data for pictures, internet and video chat with their friends.
 
WTF is "top minimum wage?" As a child of the 60's, I entered the workforce in the 70's and minimum wage was somewhere in the $3.00 an hour range. $10.00 an hour? I would have been in my glory.

Read up on what REAL means, it's not that complicated.
Real vs. Nominal, High School Economics Topics | Library of Economics and Liberty

Minimum was the highest in REAL terms in the 1960s, with equivalent of around $10-11 in today's dollars. Meaning that $1.50 in 1960 bought around $10 in 2016 worth of goods.

nominalvsrealminwage_large.png

Yes, that makes sense when it's explained properly; something you failed to do. However I strongly disagree with it. I remember what you could afford making minimum wage back then.

Dude are you serious?

You don't know what REAL is, can't bother to look it up and then blame me for not assuming your ignorance of basic economics? Rediculous.

Dollar's buying power today is a small fraction of what it bought in 1960s. What do you disagree with?

I disagree with the buying power. I was in the workforce in 76 when (according to your chart) was about nine bucks an hour today. I think you can buy more things today on nine bucks an hour than minimum wage back then.

There are people who's job it is to estimate inflation, broken down by type of consumption (low end in this case). I will take their expert estimates over your guesstimation...so should you.

Here are some food price comparisons:

Supermarket Food Prices In 1976 As Compared To 2016

Okay, is that because minimum wage is so low or because environmentalists were so smart they thought burning up our food supply would not drastically increase the cost of food?

Where do you think ethanol comes from? At least in our area, every gallon of gasoline contains the minimum of 10% ethanol. Not only does it do nothing for the environment, but it's been known to cause damage to car engines and lawn equipment.
 
Saying the poor are problematic is the sign of an idiot.
 
Working for 20 dollars per hour today leaves one near poverty. Imagine the millions of working poor making less....and we call them problematic. My faith in america fades daily.
 
Conservatives have never been able to come up with a way of punishing the parents for being poor without punishing the children.
First of all - conservatives have no desire to punish anyone for being poor. People are as welcome to be as poor as they'd like to be in America.

As far as what to do for the "children" (the favorite faux tragedy of the disingenuous left-wing) - well I solved that years ago. You simply place the parents in prison for "child endangerment" if they don't properly provide food, shelter, and healthcare for their children. Then you place those parents in prison on a chain-gang and you work them 12 hours per days on various forms of public infrastructure. The tax-payer dollars saved on that public infrastructure goes to the basic needs of their children (i.e. the healthcare, food, etc. that the parent wasn't providing).

So simple...only a Dumbocrat could find it an "unsolvable" problem.
Surely you are jesting. Ignoring the insanity of any jury sending parents to prison because they are unable to make enough money, consider the cost. The average cost of imprisoning the parents for a year is $62,000. Add to that the cost of foster care for 3 kids which averages over $600/mo per child we have at total cost $83,600 for a year. The average family receiving benefits draws less than $30,000/yr. in benefits from the government. Just considering those costs, your plan makes no sense even without the resulting cost of the damage to the children.

The average child put in foster care fares far worst than being left with parents, even most bad parents. Children left in foster care are 40% more likely to be convicted of a felony before age 24, 3 times as likely to run away, 5 to 8 times more likely to be hospitalized for serious psychotic disorders, and 3 times more likely to remain in poverty as adults. When we take kids away from their parents, it is not just bad for the kids, it is bad for everyone because in one way or another we all pay the costs.
 
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Ignoring the insanity of any jury sending parents to prison because they are unable to make enough money
Yeah...nothing says "insanity" like properly holding parents criminally responsible for child endangerment. :eusa_doh:
 
The average cost of imprisoning the parents for a year is $62,000. Add to that the cost of foster care for 3 kids which averages over $600/mo per child we have at total cost $83,600 for a year. The average family receiving benefits draws less than $30,000/yr. in benefits from the government.

Children left in foster care are 40% more likely to be convicted of a felony before age 24, 3 times as likely to run away, 5 to 8 times more likely to be hospitalized for serious psychotic disorders, and 3 times more likely to remain in poverty as adults.
Oh look...another wing-nut posting all kinds of stats without a single link. Not one. What else is new? :doubt:
 
consider the cost. The average cost of imprisoning the parents for a year is $62,000. Add to that the cost of foster care for 3 kids which averages over $600/mo per child we have at total cost $83,600 for a year.
There is a very simple solution for that. We simply tax all registered Dumbocrats at 82%. Dumbocrats are always advocating for higher taxes and they claim to "care" about the children - so this literally makes everyone happy.
 
What difference does it make? Unless we are planning on extracting some form of punishment or retribution, fault is irreverent.

Assuming these people are teens or in their early twenties, they are not considering goverment support when they have sex. In fact, it's probably the last thing on their mind.

It's the last thing on their mind as is being irresponsible and careless because there is always a lending hand in our government unfortunately.

If you promote irresponsibility, don't be surprised if you end up with more irresponsible people. Now let me ask: do you think we have more irresponsible people today or more in 1960?

Even kids have to make life changing decisions. You can get your kid a drivers license at the age of 16 in most states, but that doesn't stop them from getting drunk one night and killing a family in an auto accident. Their age doesn't excuse their actions. They have to pay one way or another for making that mistake.
You're comparing apples and oranges. Getting drunk and killing someone in a car accident is a criminal offense. Having a child is not. In fact, 37% of all children born in the US are unexpected or an accident.

A surprising number of people consider the birth of child, even to poor people to be a good thing.

When we're talking about tax payer dollars to support children in poverty, what their parents did or did not do is irrelevant unless you consider punishing the children is the proper course of action.

So the parents get immunity because of their children???

It's not apples and oranges in the sense of responsibility. You kill people because you got drunk and drove a vehicle, you pay. You get pregnant and have a child you can't support--taxpayers pay? Where is the equity in that?

There is no such thing as an accidental pregnancy. An accidental pregnancy implies that you got pregnant through no fault of your own. Kind of like you were just walking down the street minding your own business and tripped over something.
Unfortunately, yes parents do get immunity; that is they get food and shelter because they have children to raise. Conservatives have never been able to come up with a way of punishing the parents for being poor without punishing the children.

Conservative's war against the poor has reached a new low. In red states like Alabama, where many students are on reduced price lunches, school officials put tags on children that say, "I need lunch money", so kids will be shamed by their classmates in hopes that will cause parents to come up with lunch money.

New Mexico recently passed a law forbidden schools from punishing children with negative lunchroom balances. Some school serve kids without money the "sandwich of same" which is a slice of cheese between two slices of white bread. Other schools force children without lunch money to clean the lunchrooms in front of their classmates to work off the debt. Probably the worst incident was a 3rd grader who was forced to wear a sign that his parents were deadbeats resulting in a beating by classmates and his removal from the school.
New Mexico Outlaws School ‘Lunch Shaming’

Sorry I don't trust the Dailylunch.com, but I don't. Neither do I trust the NY Times which is an arm of the Democrat party.

As for ways to punish the parents instead of the children, I came up with an idea long ago: anybody applying for public assistance has to be fixed before getting one red cent. That's it. No more having children while on welfare.

School lunch? I remember that when I was in school. The kid with the free lunch would sell it at half price to a kid who's parents gave him lunch money. Then he would buy a candy bar or something. The rest of the money both kids saved they used to buy cigarettes or pot. Great program.

I don't know what school lunch costs today because it's subsidized by the taxpayers anyway, but let's say that a lunch costs four dollars. Four dollars is twenty bucks a week. If a parent doesn't have twenty bucks to give to their kid, that kid should be taken away from the parents.

Plus I would be willing to bet anything that many of those kids with free lunch belong to a family that uses food stamps and can easily make a lunch from that stipend. And I would bet that most of those kids getting free lunch have a cell phone with data for pictures, internet and video chat with their friends.

Well, Cleveland, I knew that you were radical, but I thought only Hitler forced sterilization on unproductive members of society.

Live, and learn!
 
What difference does it make? Unless we are planning on extracting some form of punishment or retribution, fault is irreverent.

Assuming these people are teens or in their early twenties, they are not considering goverment support when they have sex. In fact, it's probably the last thing on their mind.

It's the last thing on their mind as is being irresponsible and careless because there is always a lending hand in our government unfortunately.

If you promote irresponsibility, don't be surprised if you end up with more irresponsible people. Now let me ask: do you think we have more irresponsible people today or more in 1960?

Even kids have to make life changing decisions. You can get your kid a drivers license at the age of 16 in most states, but that doesn't stop them from getting drunk one night and killing a family in an auto accident. Their age doesn't excuse their actions. They have to pay one way or another for making that mistake.
You're comparing apples and oranges. Getting drunk and killing someone in a car accident is a criminal offense. Having a child is not. In fact, 37% of all children born in the US are unexpected or an accident.

A surprising number of people consider the birth of child, even to poor people to be a good thing.

When we're talking about tax payer dollars to support children in poverty, what their parents did or did not do is irrelevant unless you consider punishing the children is the proper course of action.

So the parents get immunity because of their children???

It's not apples and oranges in the sense of responsibility. You kill people because you got drunk and drove a vehicle, you pay. You get pregnant and have a child you can't support--taxpayers pay? Where is the equity in that?

There is no such thing as an accidental pregnancy. An accidental pregnancy implies that you got pregnant through no fault of your own. Kind of like you were just walking down the street minding your own business and tripped over something.
Unfortunately, yes parents do get immunity; that is they get food and shelter because they have children to raise. Conservatives have never been able to come up with a way of punishing the parents for being poor without punishing the children.

Conservative's war against the poor has reached a new low. In red states like Alabama, where many students are on reduced price lunches, school officials put tags on children that say, "I need lunch money", so kids will be shamed by their classmates in hopes that will cause parents to come up with lunch money.

New Mexico recently passed a law forbidden schools from punishing children with negative lunchroom balances. Some school serve kids without money the "sandwich of same" which is a slice of cheese between two slices of white bread. Other schools force children without lunch money to clean the lunchrooms in front of their classmates to work off the debt. Probably the worst incident was a 3rd grader who was forced to wear a sign that his parents were deadbeats resulting in a beating by classmates and his removal from the school.
New Mexico Outlaws School ‘Lunch Shaming’

Sorry I don't trust the Dailylunch.com, but I don't. Neither do I trust the NY Times which is an arm of the Democrat party.

As for ways to punish the parents instead of the children, I came up with an idea long ago: anybody applying for public assistance has to be fixed before getting one red cent. That's it. No more having children while on welfare.

School lunch? I remember that when I was in school. The kid with the free lunch would sell it at half price to a kid who's parents gave him lunch money. Then he would buy a candy bar or something. The rest of the money both kids saved they used to buy cigarettes or pot. Great program.

I don't know what school lunch costs today because it's subsidized by the taxpayers anyway, but let's say that a lunch costs four dollars. Four dollars is twenty bucks a week. If a parent doesn't have twenty bucks to give to their kid, that kid should be taken away from the parents.

Plus I would be willing to bet anything that many of those kids with free lunch belong to a family that uses food stamps and can easily make a lunch from that stipend. And I would bet that most of those kids getting free lunch have a cell phone with data for pictures, internet and video chat with their friends.
You must have been away from school a long time. In almost all schools today, lunchrooms have a account for each kid in which either the parent or district deposits funds monthly. No cash or lunch vouchers changes hands.

The National School Lunch Program was not a program to feed the poor. Conservatives have characterized it as such but that is entirely false. The sole purpose was to improve student performance in schools and reduce disciple problems.

The program was started in the US in 1946. It is based on sound research as well as empirical evidence that goes back several hundred years. It's value has been confirm over and over. When kids don't receive adequate meals at breakfast and lunch, no matter the reason, they do poorly in school and create discipline problems.

Anyone that has taught kids understands how hard it is to teach hungry kids. They don't pay attention and cause classroom disruptions. Even just a couple of hungry kids can destroy the learning experience for a class.


Today school lunch programs very similar to the US program are operating in over 60 countries.
 
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"Jarod Taylor " doesn't sound like a Cherokee name ?

I couldn't even get to the fake news article wh all the spam. Nice link you got there .

Saying the poor are problematic is the sign of an idiot.

Working for 20 dollars per hour today leaves one near poverty. Imagine the millions of working poor making less....and we call them problematic. My faith in america fades daily.

Haha...not only is our poor problematic...most are absolutely total filthy pieces of shits.
That outta roll you up in the fetal position.
 
That is correct. "General welfare". Could mean pretty much anything.
Which proves how idiotic your position is. Because that would mean unlimited power for the federal government and we all know (even the most radical left-wing asshat) that that is not the case.

Does the Constitution clarify the "general welfare" statement any further? Please enlighten me, since I need a lesson on the US Constitution.
Yeah - the U.S. Constitution makes it very clear that the federal government is explicitly restricted to the 18 enumerated powers. Therefore the "general welfare" clause couldn't possibly extend beyond those 18 enumerated powers.

As Thomas Jefferson explained - the "general welfare" clause appplies only to those specific 18 powers.

Thanks, friend.

I looked up the 18 enumerated powers...

and unless there is a DIFFERENT list of 18 enumerated powers, the FIRST of the 18 states:

"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States" (emphasis mine)

Therefore the "general welfare" clause couldn't possibly extend beyond those 18 enumerated powers because it is ONE OF THE 18 ENUMERATED POWERS.

If I am wrong, and there is another 18 enumerated powers, please show me.

Thank you,
 
I love people on welfare, people on welfare are awesome "in their own way"....We need to make it easier on people to qualify for welfare. We need to give more to people on welfare. I hope to see more people on welfare. People on welfare actually help our economics. I am committed to doing all I can for people on welfare so long as I can use other people's checking accounts to do so. People on welfare are positive contributors "in their own way"...they make awesome parents and they never ever engage in criminal activity. They tend to have clean well kept homes and their neighborhoods never have trash scattered throughout. They take great care of their multiple animals and rarely will you find domestic abuse within a "welfare home".
WELFARE IS AWESOME AND SO ARE WELFARE RECIPIENTS!

(do you whacktards ever stop to think about what you sound like to NORMAL legitimate people?)

You sound like someone who has fallen prey to the either-or fallacy.

By the way, find an actual person who has written any of those things on this mesage board. I dare you.

Otherwise, admit that you're the only whackjob who said any of that on here.

Oh make no mistake about it...that's exactly what you loons have been saying all along...Some of you try some weird toe the line kind of shit so you can keep yourself from feeling like you need a straight jacket but your views are made clear and we see right through your feeble attempt to disguise your Loon-hood
 

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