How do we stop "the poor" from being so problematic?

[Ray From Cleveland]

You are simply refusing to recognize the part of the Constitution, Article 1 Sec. 5 Claus 1, that gives Congress the right and duty to provide for the general welfare and that it is Congress's prerogative of how it does that. Your entire concept is based on Congress not having that Constitutional Right and obligation to provide for the general welfare.

I've covered this five dozen times over the past few days (at least a dozen on this thread alone).

The "general welfare" clause specifically refers to the 18 enumerated powers Congress is explicitly restricted to. This is cut and dry, black and white. You're desperate to convince the masses of something that simply isn't true.

Article 1 Section 8 Clause 1:
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

If the clause was simply referring to the 18 enumerated powers of Congress it would not make any sense because the enumerated powers are listed in clause one and the following clauses. The Supreme Court explanation in 1833 is the proper interpretation. It held that taxing powers of the United States includes within it a federal power to spend federal revenues on matters of general interest to the federal government.

The Supreme Court held the understanding of the General Welfare Clause contained in the Taxing and Spending Clause adheres to the construction given it by Associate Justice Joseph Story in his 1833 Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States.[5][6] Justice Story concluded that the General Welfare Clause is not a grant of general legislative power,[5][7] but a qualification on the taxing power[5][8][9] which includes within it a federal power to spend federal revenues on matters of general interest to the federal government.
General welfare clause - Wikipedia

Food stamps are not of "general interest to the federal government".

They are if the federal government are Democrats.

 

[ricechickie]

BINGO...You may be on to something there....haha.
Hell, I'm all for it so long as it stays among and within Blacks and Hispanics. Because they reproduce such total awesomeness....haha

Can you say anything without being a total fucking racist reprobate?

Only a sackless pussy would mask the truth out of fear of being considered a racist. The truth always prevails for me...Sorry, I know how you guys hate truth and facts.

You love facts so much, embrace the fact that you are a racist.

Maybe you don't wear a white hood, but you see the world the way they'd have you see it.

Fact.

I see no color...I see people whom are part of the solution and people whom are part of the problem...I despise white piece of shits all the same.
"Your people" tend to represent a greater percentage of the problem and I'm smart enough and not scared to stereotype.

Who are my people BrokeLoser ?

Who are my people BrokeLoser ?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

If the clause was simply referring to the 18 enumerated powers of Congress it would not make any sense because the enumerated powers are listed in clause one and the following clauses.

If the founders thought that the US government could tax anybody to spend on anybody else or anything they desired, then what was the point for creating the Powers of Congress? What would be the point of the entire Constitution?

 

[BrokeLoser]

Can you say anything without being a total fucking racist reprobate?

Only a sackless pussy would mask the truth out of fear of being considered a racist. The truth always prevails for me...Sorry, I know how you guys hate truth and facts.

You love facts so much, embrace the fact that you are a racist.

Maybe you don't wear a white hood, but you see the world the way they'd have you see it.

Fact.

I see no color...I see people whom are part of the solution and people whom are part of the problem...I despise white piece of shits all the same.
"Your people" tend to represent a greater percentage of the problem and I'm smart enough and not scared to stereotype.

Who are my people BrokeLoser ?

Who are my people BrokeLoser ?

Whoever it is that you're always going to bat for I suppose?
You tell me?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Flipping burgers and stocking shelves will never be a "career" and never should be…

Why should those jobs not be careers if that is all that is available or more importantly, that is all a person is capable of. You are disparaging people who are willing to work at low paying jobs without knowing why that person may be restricted to a low paying job. On the one hand, you are whining about people collecting assistance and on the other hand whining about them when they work at a low paying job.

Because in the real world humans with brains are suppose to tailor their lifestyle to their income and not leverage their employers to tailor their income to their lifestyle....you understand the concept right? Employers shouldn't be held accountable for Juans lack of intelligence and poor decision making....right?
Minimum wage jobs are entry level jobs designed for high school kids and the brainless.
If 35 year old Juan and Guadalupe weren't trying to make burger flipping a lifelong career we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Would this be an issue if we sent 10 million or so Juan's and Guadalupe's home with their six anchors?
Doesn't that seem easier?

How many people out there that are flipping burgers as adults do you think have the intelligence to do anything more complex?

There are a lot of adults that are simply not smart, and it does not mean that they are lazy or they don't apply themselves or don't try hard. It means that they are not smart. And if flipping burgers, or collecting trash, or sweeping the floor is the best they can do, that's great. You should thank them for it, rather than telling them that they are a drain on society and they should try to make something of themselves.

Hey look...I see little wrong with adults working a child's job for life.
Where it becomes a wrong is when Juan, the burger flipper has six babies he can't afford on his salary then sends me the invoice and or begs and whines about needing more from consumers and taxpayers to pay for his poor decision making. Come on man... you can't be that stupid...not unless you're a Juan yourself?
In the real world if you want more you have to be willing to do more...you can't stand before your peers with a sad face and a hand out every time you want more. Sorry.

The fact is most people, particular young people think that there will be better times ahead. Somehow they will go back school, marry some rich dude, get this incredible job, and live happily ever after. However, with each year there hopes slip away.

Suzy, the waitress marries John who works in the car wash. Suzy's mom gives them money to live on. Then Suzy has a kid. John's decide he prefers drinking with the guys to dirty diapers. Suzy's solution is to have another kid which sends John off to seek his fortune and Suzy is left with a new born and a toddler and no way to support herself. This story is happening every day in very town in the country over and over.

So who is at fault with your scenario?

Maybe if Suzy didn't have the federal government to depend on taking care of her kids while her husband went out and drank, she would have never chanced having a kid in the first place unless she knew her relationship and future were secure.

 

[Flopper]

If the clause was simply referring to the 18 enumerated powers of Congress it would not make any sense because the enumerated powers are listed in clause one and the following clauses.

If the founders thought that the US government could tax anybody to spend on anybody else or anything they desired, then what was the point for creating the Powers of Congress? What would be the point of the entire Constitution?

There is lot more to the constitution than the spending and taxing clause. Congress can create any tax that is in the general interest. However, the Supreme Court can use judicial review to block any legislation that violates the constitution or existing federal laws. So if Congress passes a tax that the court finds is not in general interest, they can block it.

 

[Rustic]

Flipping burgers and stocking shelves will never be a "career" and never should be…

Why should those jobs not be careers if that is all that is available or more importantly, that is all a person is capable of. You are disparaging people who are willing to work at low paying jobs without knowing why that person may be restricted to a low paying job. On the one hand, you are whining about people collecting assistance and on the other hand whining about them when they work at a low paying job.

Because in the real world humans with brains are suppose to tailor their lifestyle to their income and not leverage their employers to tailor their income to their lifestyle....you understand the concept right? Employers shouldn't be held accountable for Juans lack of intelligence and poor decision making....right?
Minimum wage jobs are entry level jobs designed for high school kids and the brainless.
If 35 year old Juan and Guadalupe weren't trying to make burger flipping a lifelong career we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Would this be an issue if we sent 10 million or so Juan's and Guadalupe's home with their six anchors?
Doesn't that seem easier?

How many people out there that are flipping burgers as adults do you think have the intelligence to do anything more complex?

There are a lot of adults that are simply not smart, and it does not mean that they are lazy or they don't apply themselves or don't try hard. It means that they are not smart. And if flipping burgers, or collecting trash, or sweeping the floor is the best they can do, that's great. You should thank them for it, rather than telling them that they are a drain on society and they should try to make something of themselves.

Hey look...I see little wrong with adults working a child's job for life.
Where it becomes a wrong is when Juan, the burger flipper has six babies he can't afford on his salary then sends me the invoice and or begs and whines about needing more from consumers and taxpayers to pay for his poor decision making. Come on man... you can't be that stupid...not unless you're a Juan yourself?
In the real world if you want more you have to be willing to do more...you can't stand before your peers with a sad face and a hand out every time you want more. Sorry.

The fact is most people, particular young people think that there will be better times ahead. Somehow they will go back school, marry some rich dude, get this incredible job, and live happily ever after. However, with each year there hopes slip away.

Suzy, the waitress marries John who works in the car wash. Suzy's mom gives them money to live on. Then Suzy has a kid. John's decide he prefers drinking with the guys to dirty diapers. Suzy's solution is to have another kid which sends John off to seek his fortune and Suzy is left with a new born and a toddler and no way to support herself. This story is happening every day in very town in the country over and over.

More frivolous taxes will not help that situation at all, in fact it will make it much worse… Fact

 

[P@triot]

You are simply refusing to recognize the part of the Constitution, Article 1 Sec. 5 Claus 1, that gives Congress the right and duty to provide for the general welfare and that it is Congress's prerogative of how it does that. Your entire concept is based on Congress not having that Constitutional Right and obligation to provide for the general welfare.

Here is none other than Thomas Jefferson himself proving that you're a liar:

“Congress had not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but were restrained to those specifically enumerated; and that, as it was never meant they should provide for that welfare but by the exercise of the enumerated powers, so it could not have been meant they should raise money for purposes which the enumeration did not place under their action” - Thomas Jefferson (June 6, 1817)


“[We] disavow, and declare to be most false and unfounded, the doctrine that the [Constitution], in authorizing its federal branch to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States, has given them thereby a power to do whatever they may think, or pretend, would promote the general welfare–which construction would make that of itself a complete government, without limitation of powers.… The plain sense and obvious meaning were that they might levy the taxes necessary to provide for the general welfare by the various acts of power therein specified and delegated to them, and by no others. – Thomas Jefferson (December 24, 1825)

Still want to keep going with your false narrative, snowflake? Because I can do this all day long.

The quotes above are not in the constitution.

No - but the 18 enumerated powers are. Thanks for playing. Class dismissed.

 

[P@triot]

And when the hell did xotoxi start trolling here again?

Ugh.

Suck it, bitch!

Classy...

 

[P@triot]

Congress can create any tax that is in the general interest.

Not they can't. What a stupid comment. How would one even quantify something as absurdly vague as "in the general interest"? Is it in the "general interest" to tax black people double? Is it in the "general interest" to tax only automobile manufacturers?

Would you LWNJs just grow the fuck up already? The U.S. Constitution says exactly what it says and has been confirmed countless times by the founders that wrote it. We don't care if you don't like it - nobody is buying your immature bulkshit.

 

[P@triot]

There aren't enough "big boy" jobs to go around. If there were, the working class would not have seen their savings wiped out, wages wouldn't have stagnated for the past 35 years, and 47% of the population wouldn't be receiving public assistance.

Well that's what happens when a nation elects Dumbocrats to office and community organizers to the White House. They destroy the economy which in turn destroys salaries, which in turn destroys savings and so on.

But don't worry - after living the nightmare - the American people corrected the problem and turned the entire nation over to the Republicans.

 

[P@triot]

No one works and everything is free.

Yes, snowflake. That will be the reality some day. Machines will provide healthcare, manufacture products, farm, etc. Ask any expert. This has been widely discussed.

 

[P@triot]

The federal government can pass legislation and the taxes to support the legislation.

Sure....so long as the legislation and related taxes for it are one of the 18 enumerated powers of the federal government. Outside of that, what you said was complete and total bullshit.

 

[xotoxi]

You are simply refusing to recognize the part of the Constitution, Article 1 Sec. 5 Claus 1, that gives Congress the right and duty to provide for the general welfare and that it is Congress's prerogative of how it does that. Your entire concept is based on Congress not having that Constitutional Right and obligation to provide for the general welfare.

Here is none other than Thomas Jefferson himself proving that you're a liar:

“Congress had not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but were restrained to those specifically enumerated; and that, as it was never meant they should provide for that welfare but by the exercise of the enumerated powers, so it could not have been meant they should raise money for purposes which the enumeration did not place under their action” - Thomas Jefferson (June 6, 1817)


“[We] disavow, and declare to be most false and unfounded, the doctrine that the [Constitution], in authorizing its federal branch to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States, has given them thereby a power to do whatever they may think, or pretend, would promote the general welfare–which construction would make that of itself a complete government, without limitation of powers.… The plain sense and obvious meaning were that they might levy the taxes necessary to provide for the general welfare by the various acts of power therein specified and delegated to them, and by no others. – Thomas Jefferson (December 24, 1825)

Still want to keep going with your false narrative, snowflake? Because I can do this all day long.

The quotes above are not in the constitution.

No - but the 18 enumerated powers are. Thanks for playing. Class dismissed.

That is correct.

"General welfare". Could mean pretty much anything.

 

[P@triot]

The legal discussions regarding the clause in question were between Madison and Hamilton. The Hamilton view won out.

Repeating a lie doesn't make it any more true. The states got together and decided to delegate 18 specific functions to the federal government. The states have the power - they delegated 18 roles to the federal government because it made sense for those particular items.

Those are the facts and they are simply indisputable.

 

[P@triot]

That is correct. "General welfare". Could mean pretty much anything.

Which proves how idiotic your position is. Because that would mean unlimited power for the federal government and we all know (even the most radical left-wing asshat) that that is not the case.

 

[P@triot]

You need a lesson in statistics.

Not nearly as much as you need a lesson on the U.S. Constitution.

 

[xotoxi]

That is correct. "General welfare". Could mean pretty much anything.

Which proves how idiotic your position is. Because that would mean unlimited power for the federal government and we all know (even the most radical left-wing asshat) that that is not the case.

Does the Constitution clarify the "general welfare" statement any further? Please enlighten me, since I need a lesson on the US Constitution.

 

[P@triot]

Justice Story concluded that the General Welfare Clause is not a grant of general legislative power,[5][7] but a qualification on the taxing power[5][8][9]
General welfare clause - Wikipedia

Yeah, nitwit. Taxing powers within the 18 enumerated powers delegated to them by the states. You continue to take stupid to unprecedented levels.

 

[ricechickie]

Only a sackless pussy would mask the truth out of fear of being considered a racist. The truth always prevails for me...Sorry, I know how you guys hate truth and facts.

You love facts so much, embrace the fact that you are a racist.

Maybe you don't wear a white hood, but you see the world the way they'd have you see it.

Fact.

I see no color...I see people whom are part of the solution and people whom are part of the problem...I despise white piece of shits all the same.
"Your people" tend to represent a greater percentage of the problem and I'm smart enough and not scared to stereotype.

Who are my people BrokeLoser ?

Who are my people BrokeLoser ?

Whoever it is that you're always going to bat for I suppose?
You tell me?

That's the point, I didn't tell you, and yet you threw out the term "your people". Maybe if you use a phrase, you should be able to define it.