How do we Know Human are Causing Climate Change?

[ding]

Right. Your study was theoretical, the one I posted took actual measurements.

If your study was correct, ignoring lower panel albedo, total warming should be the same, some shifted away from the panels and to the point of usage.

In the second simulation, the one in which global thermostat regulation is significantly increased, the large amount of power consumed actually produced an urban heat island effect, in which human energy use releases heat into the environment and causes the regional temperature to warm up.

See?

In this scenario, the warming from the heat island effect essentially compensated for the cooling caused by the solar panels.

Essentially compensated. LOL!

Now show me you understand what the lower panel albedo does.
In a way that makes sense.

It's a little more complicated than that. Read your own paper. Did you see where your paper mentioned sensible heat?

So recognizing all of your arguments, I still chose to believe the paper that lets me say the best way to usher in the next glacial cycle is widespread use of solar. And there's not fuck all you can do about that.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It's a little more complicated than that. Read your own paper. Did you see where your paper mentioned sensible heat?

So recognizing all of your arguments, I still chose to believe the paper that lets me say the best way to usher in the next glacial cycle is widespread use of solar. And there's not fuck all you can do about that.

Did you see where your paper mentioned sensible heat?

Sensible heat doesn't make your confusion about the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics any smaller.

I still chose to believe the paper that lets me say the best way to usher in the next glacial cycle is widespread use of solar.

Of course you do, because theoretical cooling beats actual warming.

Damn! About 4C warmer at midnight.

 

[ding]

Did you see where your paper mentioned sensible heat?

Sensible heat doesn't make your confusion about the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics any smaller.

I still chose to believe the paper that lets me say the best way to usher in the next glacial cycle is widespread use of solar.

Of course you do, because theoretical cooling beats actual warming.

View attachment 599333

Damn! About 4C warmer at midnight.

Sensible heat is about frequencies. Not all heat is created equal apparently.

Let's just say that I am having more fun with cooling.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Sensible heat is about frequencies. Not all heat is created equal apparently.

Let's just say that I am having more fun with cooling.

IR emitted from very dark solar panels has magical properties that IR emitted from the planet's surface doesn't?

What about the IR emitted when electricity is consumed?
Does solar generated electricity emit different IR than other electricity?

Let's just say that I am having more fun with cooling.

And I'm having fun showing your error.

 

[ding]

IR emitted from very dark solar panels has magical properties that IR emitted from the planet's surface doesn't?

What about the IR emitted when electricity is consumed?
Does solar generated electricity emit different IR than other electricity?

Let's just say that I am having more fun with cooling.

And I'm having fun showing your error.

Yes.

It's in both cases, silly. So why even go there

Everything is choice. Sort of like believing widespread use of solar panels will help cool the planet.

 

[Crick]

Are you under the impression that people put up solar panels to cool the planet by making shade?

 

[ding]

Are you under the impression that people put up solar panels to cool the planet by making shade?

No.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/283975603_Impact_of_solar_panels_on_global_climate

 

[Crick]

Good source. Do you take from this that solar panels will do more harm than the fossil fuel energy production they replace?

 

[ding]

Good source. Do you take from this that solar panels will do more harm than the fossil fuel energy production they replace?

I don't buy the gloom and doom projections of AGW and I don't believe it's wise to try to make the planet cooler in the middle of an ice age. So what do you think?

You'd think with significant portions of North America, Europe and Asia being covered in ice and snow every winter people would make the connection to the ice house world we have been living in for the past 3 million years but not so much.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I don't believe it's wise to try to make the planet cooler in the middle of an ice age.

Maybe we should cover the planet with low albedo solar panels?

 

[ding]

Maybe we should cover the planet with low albedo solar panels?

That's brilliant. Then we can answer the question if it ushers in an ice age or a greenhouse.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That's brilliant. Then we can answer the question if it ushers in an ice age or a greenhouse.

Lower albedo = warmer

 

[ding]

Lower albedo = warmer

Yes, and higher albedo = colder is why northern hemisphere is so sensitive to extensive continental glaciation.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yes, and higher albedo = colder is why northern hemisphere is so sensitive to extensive continental glaciation.

And that's why solar installations won't cool the planet.

 

[ding]

And that's why solar installations won't cool the planet.

Pretty sure the planet's propensity to be cooler stands on it's own but the trigger for negative feedback is a different matter all together.

As for the albedo of solar panels more than offsetting the reduction in solar radiation converted into energy that is still under dispute.

 

[Crick]

I don't buy the gloom and doom projections of AGW and I don't believe it's wise to try to make the planet cooler in the middle of an ice age. So what do you think?

You'd think with significant portions of North America, Europe and Asia being covered in ice and snow every winter people would make the connection to the ice house world we have been living in for the past 3 million years but not so much.

We are not in the middle of an ice age and we should be trying to make the planet cooler because we have been warming much faster than at any point in the history of our species, demonstrably from our own actions.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

As for the albedo of solar panels more than offsetting the reduction in solar radiation converted into energy that is still under dispute.

Lower albedo means it's warmer at the panel. If 100 watts hits the earth, about 30 watts is bounced back to space. If 100 watts hits a panel, only about 5 watts is bounced back. 25 fewer watts.

If the panel is 20% efficient, 19 watts is converted to electricity.
Even if you don't understand conservation of energy or entropy,,...76 watts of heat is more than 70.

 

[Crick]

Don't forget that virtually everything we might do with that electricity will eventually culminate in the production of heat.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Don't forget that virtually everything we might do with that electricity will eventually culminate in the production of heat.

Ding was ignoring that half of the equation.

 

[ding]

We are not in the middle of an ice age and we should be trying to make the planet cooler because we have been warming much faster than at any point in the history of our species, demonstrably from our own actions.

The ice age began three million years ago. Or if you prefer you can say the earth transitioned to an icehouse planet from a green house planet 3 million years ago. Some people - you apparently being one of the - mistakenly call a glacial cycle an ice age.

D-O events - of which there were many - warmed and cooled from near glacial to near interglacial temperatures (5C swings) in as few as several decades. So, no, the claim that the recent warming trend is unprecedented is false.

You have mistakenly attributed increased climate fluctuations of a bipolar glaciated planet with CO2.