How do we Know Human are Causing Climate Change?

Crick · Jul 2, 2023

ding said:
None of those are crossplots. You literally have to plot CO2 versus temperature. Provide the data that is acceptable to you and I will crossplot it for you because you don't seem capable of doing so yourself.

How much education do you think is required to make a scatter plot in Excel Whizzo? I hear lots of claims from lots of deniers that, when pressed, demand that I do the work of demonstrating their claims. I have to assume, given all the marvelous things you've claimed for the value of cross plots, that you have seen them, have studied them and have made them. You claim that a crossplot will not show the correlation that every scientist on the planet assumes as fact. This is an extraordinary claim. Thus it is YOUR responsibility to provide the evidence, not me.

ding said:
None of those are crossplots. You literally have to plot CO2 versus temperature. Provide the data that is acceptable to you and I will crossplot it for you because you don't seem capable of doing so yourself.

YEAR	ppm CO2	Temp Anom
1850	284.7	-0.20
1851	284.7	-0.09
1852	284.7	0.00
1853	284.7	-0.12
1854	284.7	-0.08
1855	285.4	-0.13
1856	285.4	-0.12
1857	285.4	-0.34
1858	285.4	-0.21
1859	285.4	-0.09
1860	286.2	-0.15
1861	286.2	-0.24
1862	286.2	-0.34
1863	286.2	-0.11
1864	286.2	-0.12
1865	286.9	-0.16
1866	286.9	-0.17
1867	286.9	-0.26
1868	286.9	0.00
1869	286.9	-0.11
1870	287.5	-0.10
1871	287.5	-0.12
1872	287.5	-0.16
1873	287.5	-0.29
1874	287.5	-0.29
1875	288.7	-0.09
1876	288.7	-0.34
1877	288.7	-0.03
1878	288.7	0.05
1879	288.7	-0.04
1880	290.7	-0.06
1881	290.7	0.00
1882	290.7	-0.18
1883	290.7	-0.16
1884	290.7	-0.31
1885	293.0	-0.40
1886	293.0	-0.21
1887	293.0	-0.26
1888	293.0	-0.15
1889	293.0	0.02
1890	294.2	-0.26
1891	294.2	-0.10
1892	294.2	-0.16
1893	294.2	-0.31
1894	294.2	-0.20
1895	294.8	-0.18
1896	294.8	-0.06
1897	294.8	0.10
1898	294.8	-0.20
1899	294.8	-0.18
1900	295.8	-0.05
1901	295.8	-0.08
1902	295.8	-0.27
1903	295.8	-0.33
1904	295.8	-0.45
1905	297.6	-0.24
1906	297.6	-0.20
1907	297.6	-0.38
1908	297.6	-0.34
1909	297.6	-0.48
1910	299.7	-0.30
1911	299.7	-0.46
1912	299.7	-0.18
1913	299.7	-0.40
1914	299.7	-0.19
1915	301.4	0.00
1916	301.4	-0.25
1917	301.4	-0.52
1918	301.4	-0.39
1919	301.4	-0.22
1920	303.0	-0.25
1921	303.0	-0.21
1922	303.0	-0.27
1923	303.0	-0.27
1924	303.0	-0.10
1925	305.0	-0.24
1926	305.0	-0.16
1927	305.0	-0.20
1928	305.0	-0.17
1929	305.0	-0.31
1930	307.2	-0.16
1931	307.2	-0.13
1932	307.2	-0.14
1933	307.2	-0.24
1934	307.2	-0.07
1935	309.4	-0.23
1936	309.4	-0.07
1937	309.4	-0.01
1938	309.4	-0.03
1939	309.4	-0.01
1940	310.4	0.16
1941	310.4	0.21
1942	310.4	0.15
1943	310.4	0.13
1944	310.4	0.24
1945	310.1	0.12
1946	310.1	-0.02
1947	310.1	0.02
1948	310.1	0.05
1949	310.1	-0.04
1950	310.7	-0.02
1951	310.7	0.04
1952	310.7	0.08
1953	310.7	0.20
1954	310.7	-0.12
1955	313.0	-0.16
1956	313.0	-0.27
1957	313.0	0.05
1958	313.0	0.10
1959	313.0	0.04
1960	316.9	-0.05
1961	316.9	0.04
1962	316.9	0.01
1963	316.9	-0.02
1964	316.9	-0.15
1965	320.0	-0.20
1966	320.0	-0.11
1967	320.0	0.21
1968	320.0	-0.17
1969	320.0	0.18
1970	325.0	0.05
1971	325.0	-0.03
1972	325.0	0.00
1973	325.0	0.24
1974	325.0	-0.02
1975	331.3	0.08
1976	331.3	-0.12
1977	331.3	0.28
1978	334.6	0.10
1979	336.7	0.17
1980	338.7	0.38
1981	339.7	0.31
1982	340.9	0.17
1983	342.5	0.28
1984	344.1	0.31
1985	345.5	0.22
1986	346.9	0.35
1987	348.5	0.33
1988	350.9	0.48
1989	352.6	0.24
1990	353.7	0.50
1991	355.2	0.43
1992	355.9	0.37
1993	356.6	0.31
1994	358.2	0.32
1995	360.2	0.32
1996	362.0	0.34
1997	363.2	0.41
1998	365.7	0.69
1999	367.8	0.33
2000	368.9	0.38
2001	370.4	0.58
2002	372.5	0.66
2003	375.1	0.63
2004	376.6	0.42
2005	379.0	0.70
2006	381.2	0.52
2007	382.9	0.65
2008	385.0	0.52
2009	386.4	0.62
2010	388.7	0.78
2011	390.6	0.55
2012	392.6	0.75
2013	395.5	0.66
2014	397.5	0.87
2015	399.6	0.82
2016	402.9	0.99
2017	405.2	0.90
2018	408.2	0.81
2019	410.5	0.90
2020	414.2	0.99
2021	416.3	0.80
2022	418.6	0.86
2023	419.7	0.97

Start weaseling Whizzo.

CO2 from https://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-...centration-of-carbon-dioxide-5/download.table
Temperature from NOAA

ding · Jul 2, 2023

Crick said:
How much education do you think is required to make a scatter plot in Excel Whizzo? I hear lots of claims from lots of deniers that, when pressed, demand that I do the work of demonstrating their claims. I have to assume, given all the marvelous things you've claimed for the value of cross plots, that you have seen them, have studied them and have made them. You claim that a crossplot will not show the correlation that every scientist on the planet assumes as fact. This is an extraordinary claim. Thus it is YOUR responsibility to provide the evidence, not me.

View attachment 800793

YEAR
ppm CO2
Temp Anom
1850
284.7
-0.20
1851
284.7
-0.09
1852
284.7
0.00
1853
284.7
-0.12
1854
284.7
-0.08
1855
285.4
-0.13
1856
285.4
-0.12
1857
285.4
-0.34
1858
285.4
-0.21
1859
285.4
-0.09
1860
286.2
-0.15
1861
286.2
-0.24
1862
286.2
-0.34
1863
286.2
-0.11
1864
286.2
-0.12
1865
286.9
-0.16
1866
286.9
-0.17
1867
286.9
-0.26
1868
286.9
0.00
1869
286.9
-0.11
1870
287.5
-0.10
1871
287.5
-0.12
1872
287.5
-0.16
1873
287.5
-0.29
1874
287.5
-0.29
1875
288.7
-0.09
1876
288.7
-0.34
1877
288.7
-0.03
1878
288.7
0.05
1879
288.7
-0.04
1880
290.7
-0.06
1881
290.7
0.00
1882
290.7
-0.18
1883
290.7
-0.16
1884
290.7
-0.31
1885
293.0
-0.40
1886
293.0
-0.21
1887
293.0
-0.26
1888
293.0
-0.15
1889
293.0
0.02
1890
294.2
-0.26
1891
294.2
-0.10
1892
294.2
-0.16
1893
294.2
-0.31
1894
294.2
-0.20
1895
294.8
-0.18
1896
294.8
-0.06
1897
294.8
0.10
1898
294.8
-0.20
1899
294.8
-0.18
1900
295.8
-0.05
1901
295.8
-0.08
1902
295.8
-0.27
1903
295.8
-0.33
1904
295.8
-0.45
1905
297.6
-0.24
1906
297.6
-0.20
1907
297.6
-0.38
1908
297.6
-0.34
1909
297.6
-0.48
1910
299.7
-0.30
1911
299.7
-0.46
1912
299.7
-0.18
1913
299.7
-0.40
1914
299.7
-0.19
1915
301.4
0.00
1916
301.4
-0.25
1917
301.4
-0.52
1918
301.4
-0.39
1919
301.4
-0.22
1920
303.0
-0.25
1921
303.0
-0.21
1922
303.0
-0.27
1923
303.0
-0.27
1924
303.0
-0.10
1925
305.0
-0.24
1926
305.0
-0.16
1927
305.0
-0.20
1928
305.0
-0.17
1929
305.0
-0.31
1930
307.2
-0.16
1931
307.2
-0.13
1932
307.2
-0.14
1933
307.2
-0.24
1934
307.2
-0.07
1935
309.4
-0.23
1936
309.4
-0.07
1937
309.4
-0.01
1938
309.4
-0.03
1939
309.4
-0.01
1940
310.4
0.16
1941
310.4
0.21
1942
310.4
0.15
1943
310.4
0.13
1944
310.4
0.24
1945
310.1
0.12
1946
310.1
-0.02
1947
310.1
0.02
1948
310.1
0.05
1949
310.1
-0.04
1950
310.7
-0.02
1951
310.7
0.04
1952
310.7
0.08
1953
310.7
0.20
1954
310.7
-0.12
1955
313.0
-0.16
1956
313.0
-0.27
1957
313.0
0.05
1958
313.0
0.10
1959
313.0
0.04
1960
316.9
-0.05
1961
316.9
0.04
1962
316.9
0.01
1963
316.9
-0.02
1964
316.9
-0.15
1965
320.0
-0.20
1966
320.0
-0.11
1967
320.0
0.21
1968
320.0
-0.17
1969
320.0
0.18
1970
325.0
0.05
1971
325.0
-0.03
1972
325.0
0.00
1973
325.0
0.24
1974
325.0
-0.02
1975
331.3
0.08
1976
331.3
-0.12
1977
331.3
0.28
1978
334.6
0.10
1979
336.7
0.17
1980
338.7
0.38
1981
339.7
0.31
1982
340.9
0.17
1983
342.5
0.28
1984
344.1
0.31
1985
345.5
0.22
1986
346.9
0.35
1987
348.5
0.33
1988
350.9
0.48
1989
352.6
0.24
1990
353.7
0.50
1991
355.2
0.43
1992
355.9
0.37
1993
356.6
0.31
1994
358.2
0.32
1995
360.2
0.32
1996
362.0
0.34
1997
363.2
0.41
1998
365.7
0.69
1999
367.8
0.33
2000
368.9
0.38
2001
370.4
0.58
2002
372.5
0.66
2003
375.1
0.63
2004
376.6
0.42
2005
379.0
0.70
2006
381.2
0.52
2007
382.9
0.65
2008
385.0
0.52
2009
386.4
0.62
2010
388.7
0.78
2011
390.6
0.55
2012
392.6
0.75
2013
395.5
0.66
2014
397.5
0.87
2015
399.6
0.82
2016
402.9
0.99
2017
405.2
0.90
2018
408.2
0.81
2019
410.5
0.90
2020
414.2
0.99
2021
416.3
0.80
2022
418.6
0.86
2023
419.7
0.97

Start weaseling Whizzo.

CO2 from https://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-...centration-of-carbon-dioxide-5/download.table
Temperature from NOAA

Great. Now curve fit that to get the equation of the line and the coefficient of fit.

Crick · Jul 2, 2023

ding said:
Great. Now curve fit that to get the equation of the line and the coefficient of fit.

Pack sand. The curve fit of those data is a straight line because the correlation between CO2 and temperature is as tight as tight can get, fool. If you want to try to show us something different, you get to do the work.

ding · Jul 2, 2023

Crick said:
Pack sand. The curve fit of those data is a straight line because the correlation between CO2 and temperature is as tight as tight can get, fool. If you want to try to show us something different, you get to do the work.

Should be logarithmic, right?

So what is the equation of the best fit line and what is the coefficient of fit?

jc456 · Jul 2, 2023

Crick said:
How much education do you think is required to make a scatter plot in Excel Whizzo? I hear lots of claims from lots of deniers that, when pressed, demand that I do the work of demonstrating their claims. I have to assume, given all the marvelous things you've claimed for the value of cross plots, that you have seen them, have studied them and have made them. You claim that a crossplot will not show the correlation that every scientist on the planet assumes as fact. This is an extraordinary claim. Thus it is YOUR responsibility to provide the evidence, not me.

View attachment 800793

YEAR
ppm CO2
Temp Anom
1850
284.7
-0.20
1851
284.7
-0.09
1852
284.7
0.00
1853
284.7
-0.12
1854
284.7
-0.08
1855
285.4
-0.13
1856
285.4
-0.12
1857
285.4
-0.34
1858
285.4
-0.21
1859
285.4
-0.09
1860
286.2
-0.15
1861
286.2
-0.24
1862
286.2
-0.34
1863
286.2
-0.11
1864
286.2
-0.12
1865
286.9
-0.16
1866
286.9
-0.17
1867
286.9
-0.26
1868
286.9
0.00
1869
286.9
-0.11
1870
287.5
-0.10
1871
287.5
-0.12
1872
287.5
-0.16
1873
287.5
-0.29
1874
287.5
-0.29
1875
288.7
-0.09
1876
288.7
-0.34
1877
288.7
-0.03
1878
288.7
0.05
1879
288.7
-0.04
1880
290.7
-0.06
1881
290.7
0.00
1882
290.7
-0.18
1883
290.7
-0.16
1884
290.7
-0.31
1885
293.0
-0.40
1886
293.0
-0.21
1887
293.0
-0.26
1888
293.0
-0.15
1889
293.0
0.02
1890
294.2
-0.26
1891
294.2
-0.10
1892
294.2
-0.16
1893
294.2
-0.31
1894
294.2
-0.20
1895
294.8
-0.18
1896
294.8
-0.06
1897
294.8
0.10
1898
294.8
-0.20
1899
294.8
-0.18
1900
295.8
-0.05
1901
295.8
-0.08
1902
295.8
-0.27
1903
295.8
-0.33
1904
295.8
-0.45
1905
297.6
-0.24
1906
297.6
-0.20
1907
297.6
-0.38
1908
297.6
-0.34
1909
297.6
-0.48
1910
299.7
-0.30
1911
299.7
-0.46
1912
299.7
-0.18
1913
299.7
-0.40
1914
299.7
-0.19
1915
301.4
0.00
1916
301.4
-0.25
1917
301.4
-0.52
1918
301.4
-0.39
1919
301.4
-0.22
1920
303.0
-0.25
1921
303.0
-0.21
1922
303.0
-0.27
1923
303.0
-0.27
1924
303.0
-0.10
1925
305.0
-0.24
1926
305.0
-0.16
1927
305.0
-0.20
1928
305.0
-0.17
1929
305.0
-0.31
1930
307.2
-0.16
1931
307.2
-0.13
1932
307.2
-0.14
1933
307.2
-0.24
1934
307.2
-0.07
1935
309.4
-0.23
1936
309.4
-0.07
1937
309.4
-0.01
1938
309.4
-0.03
1939
309.4
-0.01
1940
310.4
0.16
1941
310.4
0.21
1942
310.4
0.15
1943
310.4
0.13
1944
310.4
0.24
1945
310.1
0.12
1946
310.1
-0.02
1947
310.1
0.02
1948
310.1
0.05
1949
310.1
-0.04
1950
310.7
-0.02
1951
310.7
0.04
1952
310.7
0.08
1953
310.7
0.20
1954
310.7
-0.12
1955
313.0
-0.16
1956
313.0
-0.27
1957
313.0
0.05
1958
313.0
0.10
1959
313.0
0.04
1960
316.9
-0.05
1961
316.9
0.04
1962
316.9
0.01
1963
316.9
-0.02
1964
316.9
-0.15
1965
320.0
-0.20
1966
320.0
-0.11
1967
320.0
0.21
1968
320.0
-0.17
1969
320.0
0.18
1970
325.0
0.05
1971
325.0
-0.03
1972
325.0
0.00
1973
325.0
0.24
1974
325.0
-0.02
1975
331.3
0.08
1976
331.3
-0.12
1977
331.3
0.28
1978
334.6
0.10
1979
336.7
0.17
1980
338.7
0.38
1981
339.7
0.31
1982
340.9
0.17
1983
342.5
0.28
1984
344.1
0.31
1985
345.5
0.22
1986
346.9
0.35
1987
348.5
0.33
1988
350.9
0.48
1989
352.6
0.24
1990
353.7
0.50
1991
355.2
0.43
1992
355.9
0.37
1993
356.6
0.31
1994
358.2
0.32
1995
360.2
0.32
1996
362.0
0.34
1997
363.2
0.41
1998
365.7
0.69
1999
367.8
0.33
2000
368.9
0.38
2001
370.4
0.58
2002
372.5
0.66
2003
375.1
0.63
2004
376.6
0.42
2005
379.0
0.70
2006
381.2
0.52
2007
382.9
0.65
2008
385.0
0.52
2009
386.4
0.62
2010
388.7
0.78
2011
390.6
0.55
2012
392.6
0.75
2013
395.5
0.66
2014
397.5
0.87
2015
399.6
0.82
2016
402.9
0.99
2017
405.2
0.90
2018
408.2
0.81
2019
410.5
0.90
2020
414.2
0.99
2021
416.3
0.80
2022
418.6
0.86
2023
419.7
0.97

Start weaseling Whizzo.

CO2 from https://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-...centration-of-carbon-dioxide-5/download.table
Temperature from NOAA

It’s hilarious, your own data shows no correlation

Crick · Jul 2, 2023

ding said:
Should be logarithmic, right?

So what is the equation of the best fit line and what is the coefficient of fit?

Let me know when you've actually taken the time to learn what you claim to already know. And I will do no more of your work. You make a claim, you get to provide the evidence.

There are a number of factors besides CO2 that affect the Earth's temperature: methane, nitrous oxide, aerosols, clouds, deforestation, etc. CO2 is responsible for roughly 70% of warming. Feedback mechanisms and the linearity of small changes to CO2 concentrations lead to a nearly linear relationship. The correlation between CO2 and temperature is robust. Calculations based on the EPICA ice core data show a value of 0.842 + 0. See: On the causal structure between CO2 and global temperature - Scientific Reports.

Crick · Jul 2, 2023

jc456 said:
It’s hilarious, your own data shows no correlation

Jesus, do you have a closet full of t-shirts that read "You've never met anyone as stupid as me"?

jc456 · Jul 3, 2023

Crick said:
Jesus, do you have a closet full of t-shirts that read "You've never met anyone as stupid as me"?

yet you have no idea how to read the data in the last column of your worksheet. PPM went up and the anomaly didn't change many many times.

ding · Jul 5, 2023

Crick said:
Let me know when you've actually taken the time to learn what you claim to already know. And I will do no more of your work. You make a claim, you get to provide the evidence.

There are a number of factors besides CO2 that affect the Earth's temperature: methane, nitrous oxide, aerosols, clouds, deforestation, etc. CO2 is responsible for roughly 70% of warming. Feedback mechanisms and the linearity of small changes to CO2 concentrations lead to a nearly linear relationship. The correlation between CO2 and temperature is robust. Calculations based on the EPICA ice core data show a value of 0.842 + 0. See: On the causal structure between CO2 and global temperature - Scientific Reports.

So what is the equation of the best fit line and what is the coefficient of fit?

Crick · Jul 5, 2023

ding said:
So what is the equation of the best fit line and what is the coefficient of fit?

The correlation coefficient is given in my post. And were you looking for a simple linear regression? Orthogonal regression? Weighted geometric? Deming? Bezier? Major axis? Least squares? Linear least squares? Linear segmented regression? Linear trend estimation? Polynomial regression? Regression dilution?

And, most importantly, what the fuck would you do with it?

PS: do it yourself. It's not my job to make your case. That would be YOUR job.

ding · Jul 5, 2023

Crick said:
The correlation coefficient is given in my post. And were you looking for a simple linear regression? Orthogonal regression? Weighted geometric? Deming? Bezier? Major axis? Least squares? Linear least squares? Linear segmented regression? Linear trend estimation? Polynomial regression? Regression dilution?

And, most importantly, what the fuck would you do with it?

PS: do it yourself. It's not my job to make your case. That would be YOUR job.

Do you not understand what best fit means? What was the best fit. What is the equation of the line which had the best fit?

Crick · Jul 5, 2023

ding said:
Do you not understand what best fit means? What was the best fit. What is the equation of the line which had the best fit?

It seems that you are the one unfamiliar with best fit. I told you I will not do your work for you. So pick whatever fit you like and do whatever it is you plan to do with it.

ding · Jul 5, 2023

Crick said:
It seems that you are the one unfamiliar with best fit. I told you I will not do your work for you. So pick whatever fit you like and do whatever it is you plan to do with it.

Usually one would check the fit for logarithmic, exponential and liner to see which one fit the data the best. Right?

Crick · Jul 5, 2023

ding said:
Usually one would check the fit for logarithmic, exponential and liner to see which one fit the data the best. Right?

You're on your own genius.

ding · Jul 5, 2023

Crick said:
You're on your own genius.

I'm just glad you provided data you accept as valid. Especially data that has so much scatter to it.

Crick · Jul 5, 2023

ding said:
I'm just glad you provided data you accept as valid. Especially data that has so much scatter to it.

I do accept that data but it certainly isn't the only valid data and I've never said it was the best data available. It's good to hear that you were never really interested in that data or what it says about warming but were looking for a way to try to trap me in something. Your motive for some time here is not seeking the truth, but trying to get back at me for pointing out all the many ways you've demonstrated your ignorance. Consider a better solution. Stop embarrassing yourself demonstrating your ignorance.

ding · Jul 5, 2023

Crick said:
I do accept that data but it certainly isn't the only valid data and I've never said it was the best data available. It's good to hear that you were never really interested in that data or what it says about warming but were looking for a way to try to trap me in something. Your motive for some time here is not seeking the truth, but trying to get back at me for pointing out all the many ways you've demonstrated your ignorance. Consider a better solution. Stop embarrassing yourself demonstrating your ignorance.

Sounds like you are crawfishing. Why is there so much scatter in the data?

Crick · Jul 6, 2023

ding said:
Sounds like you are crawfishing. Why is there so much scatter in the data?

Crawfishing? No one else uses that term in this context.

How much scatter is there? What is its annualized SD? How much scatter do you think there should have been? But, I didn't collect it. NOAA did. If you have any questions, ask NOAA.

jc456 · Jul 6, 2023

Crick said:
Crawfishing? No one else uses that term in this context.

How much scatter is there? What is its annualized SD? How much scatter do you think there should have been? But, I didn't collect it. NOAA did. If you have any questions, ask NOAA.

so you can't explain the data you post?

Crick · Jul 6, 2023

jc456 said:
so you can't explain the data you post?

I don't have to explain it.

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