How do the non-spiritual explain it?

[sealybobo]

Setting aside the various criticisms of religious beliefs for a moment, and pretending the whimsical dismissal of God is perfectly 'natural' for man and all... how do the non-spiritualists explain the following....

Astral projection experiences.
Near-death experiences.
Transcendental meditation.
ESP and telepathy.
Ghost stories and paranormal experiences.
Other unexplained supernatural phenomenon.
Spells, curses and black magic.
Edgar Cayce.
Nostradamus.
Prophecy in general.

Is every single bit of it a bunch of hooey caused by our fears and imagination?

To me, it just seems as if there might be something more here. Especially in the case of people like Edgar Cayce. If you've never studied up on him, it's worth a search and read... fascinating man. His uncanny ability to predict the future was beyond anything we've ever known. He gave over 14k readings but that includes a brief period where he didn't do them because he was getting headaches. People were exploiting his power to win horse races and trade stock and he believed this was why he was getting the headaches. After some time, he did more readings but only his trusted wife was allowed to ask him questions.

Can our physical sciences understand this?

How do you explain all these things?

I can't explain them and that's my point. I listed about a dozen different areas, each of which contain volumes of testaments from people who apparently experienced something beyond the physical. Now most certainly, some of these instances can be chalked up as hoaxes, imagination, mental disorders, hallucinations, whatever. But my rational mind tells me that cannot be the case 100% of the time, across all these fields for all these years and all the stories.

So my conclusion is, at least some of these cases are credible and there is something going on beyond our physical ability to detect. Quantum physics supports the notion there are dimensions we cannot observe.

Actually, what you provided was a rote list of claims that resolve to nothing more than people's "feelings". All of the "experiences beyond the physical" you describe "can be chalked up as hoaxes, imagination, mental disorders, hallucinations, whatever."

How is it that "something beyond the physical" is always "something beyond the demonstrable and supportable"?

Despite your desperate need to believe in gawds and supernatural spirit realms, don't confuse your alleged "rational mind" with the ability of snake oil salesmen and charlatans to prey upon such fears and superstitions.

Ask your gawds to magically regrow someone's severed limb or magically part a sea, for real this time. Until then, la cosa nostra, capice?

Yes I want to see a documentary where 6 scientists are all invited to watch an exorcism and show me those scientists reactions and their opinions afterward. I would guess they'd all agree the girl was mentally sick and probably read about exorcists and talking in tongues.

YES, I think science and religion are coming to that point.

the point is if the therapy CURES the patient,
then why not apply and access this therapy if it is shown to WORK

I'd try anything if my kid was sick

 

[Hollie]

Wolves are mean animals. They'll kill you just for being in their territory. If you ate one you would see that they taste like shit. I bet humans taste like shit too. LOL.

But it is amazing that our mental state can and does affect our physical well being.

OK and how would you describe the difference
between the nature of the wolves and animals
and what makes human nature a different "beast".

Other animals have compassion and love. Even wolves do. They care about the pack but sometimes the Alpha has to kick the Omegas ass maybe even kill him. Very similar to humans. Just look at ISIS. The devil didn't make the wolf or ISIS do what they do.

Ok let's talk about the difference in what makes animals do what they do and what makes humans do what they do.

for example, why do people use contraception but animals don't.
What is the difference in thought process there?

I have a hard time understanding how a head can hold so many memories. I've watched entire tv shows with the tv off by mind power alone.

There are a lot of things I can't explain, like microwave ovens, that doesn't make them magic.

I can explain how microwaves work...

Yes, and the same way microwaves come with a warning
and people are taught not to expose themselves to radiation that is dangerous,
similar needs to be taught with occult energy and dark magic that interferes with natural lifegiving energy
vs. the natural healing energy that is lifegiving and promotes good health

Occult energy and black magic?

Good gawd. Have some portions of humanity not learned a thing since Medieval times?

 

[Hollie]

Setting aside the various criticisms of religious beliefs for a moment, and pretending the whimsical dismissal of God is perfectly 'natural' for man and all... how do the non-spiritualists explain the following....

Astral projection experiences.
Near-death experiences.
Transcendental meditation.
ESP and telepathy.
Ghost stories and paranormal experiences.
Other unexplained supernatural phenomenon.
Spells, curses and black magic.
Edgar Cayce.
Nostradamus.
Prophecy in general.

Is every single bit of it a bunch of hooey caused by our fears and imagination?

To me, it just seems as if there might be something more here. Especially in the case of people like Edgar Cayce. If you've never studied up on him, it's worth a search and read... fascinating man. His uncanny ability to predict the future was beyond anything we've ever known. He gave over 14k readings but that includes a brief period where he didn't do them because he was getting headaches. People were exploiting his power to win horse races and trade stock and he believed this was why he was getting the headaches. After some time, he did more readings but only his trusted wife was allowed to ask him questions.

Can our physical sciences understand this?

How do you explain all these things?

I can't explain them and that's my point. I listed about a dozen different areas, each of which contain volumes of testaments from people who apparently experienced something beyond the physical. Now most certainly, some of these instances can be chalked up as hoaxes, imagination, mental disorders, hallucinations, whatever. But my rational mind tells me that cannot be the case 100% of the time, across all these fields for all these years and all the stories.

So my conclusion is, at least some of these cases are credible and there is something going on beyond our physical ability to detect. Quantum physics supports the notion there are dimensions we cannot observe.

Actually, what you provided was a rote list of claims that resolve to nothing more than people's "feelings". All of the "experiences beyond the physical" you describe "can be chalked up as hoaxes, imagination, mental disorders, hallucinations, whatever."

How is it that "something beyond the physical" is always "something beyond the demonstrable and supportable"?

Despite your desperate need to believe in gawds and supernatural spirit realms, don't confuse your alleged "rational mind" with the ability of snake oil salesmen and charlatans to prey upon such fears and superstitions.

Ask your gawds to magically regrow someone's severed limb or magically part a sea, for real this time. Until then, la cosa nostra, capice?

Yes I want to see a documentary where 6 scientists are all invited to watch an exorcism and show me those scientists reactions and their opinions afterward. I would guess they'd all agree the girl was mentally sick and probably read about exorcists and talking in tongues.

YES, I think science and religion are coming to that point.

the point is if the therapy CURES the patient,
then why not apply and access this therapy if it is shown to WORK

What part of rattling bones, reading tea leaves, lighting smelly incense, etc., is shown to cure disease?

 

[Moonglow]

How do you explain all these things?

I can't explain them and that's my point. I listed about a dozen different areas, each of which contain volumes of testaments from people who apparently experienced something beyond the physical. Now most certainly, some of these instances can be chalked up as hoaxes, imagination, mental disorders, hallucinations, whatever. But my rational mind tells me that cannot be the case 100% of the time, across all these fields for all these years and all the stories.

So my conclusion is, at least some of these cases are credible and there is something going on beyond our physical ability to detect. Quantum physics supports the notion there are dimensions we cannot observe.

Actually, what you provided was a rote list of claims that resolve to nothing more than people's "feelings". All of the "experiences beyond the physical" you describe "can be chalked up as hoaxes, imagination, mental disorders, hallucinations, whatever."

How is it that "something beyond the physical" is always "something beyond the demonstrable and supportable"?

Despite your desperate need to believe in gawds and supernatural spirit realms, don't confuse your alleged "rational mind" with the ability of snake oil salesmen and charlatans to prey upon such fears and superstitions.

Ask your gawds to magically regrow someone's severed limb or magically part a sea, for real this time. Until then, la cosa nostra, capice?

Yes I want to see a documentary where 6 scientists are all invited to watch an exorcism and show me those scientists reactions and their opinions afterward. I would guess they'd all agree the girl was mentally sick and probably read about exorcists and talking in tongues.

YES, I think science and religion are coming to that point.

the point is if the therapy CURES the patient,
then why not apply and access this therapy if it is shown to WORK

What part of rattling bones, reading tea leaves, lighting smelly incense, etc., is shown to cure disease?

Yo gotta be naked to get it to work...

 

[Hollie]

I can't explain them and that's my point. I listed about a dozen different areas, each of which contain volumes of testaments from people who apparently experienced something beyond the physical. Now most certainly, some of these instances can be chalked up as hoaxes, imagination, mental disorders, hallucinations, whatever. But my rational mind tells me that cannot be the case 100% of the time, across all these fields for all these years and all the stories.

So my conclusion is, at least some of these cases are credible and there is something going on beyond our physical ability to detect. Quantum physics supports the notion there are dimensions we cannot observe.

Actually, what you provided was a rote list of claims that resolve to nothing more than people's "feelings". All of the "experiences beyond the physical" you describe "can be chalked up as hoaxes, imagination, mental disorders, hallucinations, whatever."

How is it that "something beyond the physical" is always "something beyond the demonstrable and supportable"?

Despite your desperate need to believe in gawds and supernatural spirit realms, don't confuse your alleged "rational mind" with the ability of snake oil salesmen and charlatans to prey upon such fears and superstitions.

Ask your gawds to magically regrow someone's severed limb or magically part a sea, for real this time. Until then, la cosa nostra, capice?

Yes I want to see a documentary where 6 scientists are all invited to watch an exorcism and show me those scientists reactions and their opinions afterward. I would guess they'd all agree the girl was mentally sick and probably read about exorcists and talking in tongues.

YES, I think science and religion are coming to that point.

the point is if the therapy CURES the patient,
then why not apply and access this therapy if it is shown to WORK

What part of rattling bones, reading tea leaves, lighting smelly incense, etc., is shown to cure disease?

Yo gotta be naked to get it to work...

Now ya' tell me!

Come on over and we'll try it.

 

[sealybobo]

How do you explain all these things?

I can't explain them and that's my point. I listed about a dozen different areas, each of which contain volumes of testaments from people who apparently experienced something beyond the physical. Now most certainly, some of these instances can be chalked up as hoaxes, imagination, mental disorders, hallucinations, whatever. But my rational mind tells me that cannot be the case 100% of the time, across all these fields for all these years and all the stories.

So my conclusion is, at least some of these cases are credible and there is something going on beyond our physical ability to detect. Quantum physics supports the notion there are dimensions we cannot observe.

Actually, what you provided was a rote list of claims that resolve to nothing more than people's "feelings". All of the "experiences beyond the physical" you describe "can be chalked up as hoaxes, imagination, mental disorders, hallucinations, whatever."

How is it that "something beyond the physical" is always "something beyond the demonstrable and supportable"?

Despite your desperate need to believe in gawds and supernatural spirit realms, don't confuse your alleged "rational mind" with the ability of snake oil salesmen and charlatans to prey upon such fears and superstitions.

Ask your gawds to magically regrow someone's severed limb or magically part a sea, for real this time. Until then, la cosa nostra, capice?

Yes I want to see a documentary where 6 scientists are all invited to watch an exorcism and show me those scientists reactions and their opinions afterward. I would guess they'd all agree the girl was mentally sick and probably read about exorcists and talking in tongues.

YES, I think science and religion are coming to that point.

the point is if the therapy CURES the patient,
then why not apply and access this therapy if it is shown to WORK

What part of rattling bones, reading tea leaves, lighting smelly incense, etc., is shown to cure disease?

I'm watching this Arab christiian show were the guy is going on and on about how 700 years before Christ Isaiah predicted god would come as a child and he's just quoting the bible with such confidence as if what he is reading proves anything. I see how gullible people get sucked in. But ten minutes in and I'm still waiting for something of substance. Oh its over? Did he prove or even say anything really? Not as far as I'm concerned.

I should feel bad I don't get it. I must be stupid evil or broken. Maybe I don't want it bad enough.

 

[emilynghiem]

YES, I think science and religion are coming to that point.
the point is if the therapy CURES the patient,
then why not apply and access this therapy if it is shown to WORK

What part of rattling bones, reading tea leaves, lighting smelly incense, etc., is shown to cure disease?

Nope, that is not how spiritual healing works.
It is internal work to identify unforgiven issues and pray to remove and resolve these
so the mind lets go of negative blockages that are obstructing natural healing.

No amount of placebo or fake external rituals
can substitute for real work to FORGIVE and let go of divisions and resentment
in the mind and affecting the body and relationships.

Hollie have you ever tried to fix a broken relationship with someone
by rattling bones in their face? doesn't work too well.

But for people who work to forgive and resolve damages that occurred
between them. to RESTORE trust and HEAL the wounds,
then after a lot of counseling work, their relationship can function again.

The same with the human mind and body connection.
if the energy circuit is blocked or broken, the healing doesn't flow properly.
So the circuit has to be repaired before the natural energy can flow freely.

no amount of fakery "on the outside" can replace the real internal work on the inside.

 

[emilynghiem]

I can't explain them and that's my point. I listed about a dozen different areas, each of which contain volumes of testaments from people who apparently experienced something beyond the physical. Now most certainly, some of these instances can be chalked up as hoaxes, imagination, mental disorders, hallucinations, whatever. But my rational mind tells me that cannot be the case 100% of the time, across all these fields for all these years and all the stories.

So my conclusion is, at least some of these cases are credible and there is something going on beyond our physical ability to detect. Quantum physics supports the notion there are dimensions we cannot observe.

Actually, what you provided was a rote list of claims that resolve to nothing more than people's "feelings". All of the "experiences beyond the physical" you describe "can be chalked up as hoaxes, imagination, mental disorders, hallucinations, whatever."

How is it that "something beyond the physical" is always "something beyond the demonstrable and supportable"?

Despite your desperate need to believe in gawds and supernatural spirit realms, don't confuse your alleged "rational mind" with the ability of snake oil salesmen and charlatans to prey upon such fears and superstitions.

Ask your gawds to magically regrow someone's severed limb or magically part a sea, for real this time. Until then, la cosa nostra, capice?

Yes I want to see a documentary where 6 scientists are all invited to watch an exorcism and show me those scientists reactions and their opinions afterward. I would guess they'd all agree the girl was mentally sick and probably read about exorcists and talking in tongues.

YES, I think science and religion are coming to that point.

the point is if the therapy CURES the patient,
then why not apply and access this therapy if it is shown to WORK

What part of rattling bones, reading tea leaves, lighting smelly incense, etc., is shown to cure disease?

I'm watching this Arab christiian show were the guy is going on and on about how 700 years before Christ Isaiah predicted god would come as a child and he's just quoting the bible with such confidence as if what he is reading proves anything. I see how gullible people get sucked in. But ten minutes in and I'm still waiting for something of substance. Oh its over? Did he prove or even say anything really? Not as far as I'm concerned.

I should feel bad I don't get it. I must be stupid evil or broken. Maybe I don't want it bad enough.

Don't feel bad. People with degrees and licenses didn't believe until they saw real life
demonstrations that spiritual healing works. Once you see it, then it makes sense.
but before you see it, the average brain is not going to understand how in the heck.

Dr. Peck fought for years with his good friend the priest that the Exorcist movie was based on.
And still didn't believe how any of this hocus pocus could be anything but delusion,
until he saw for himself that patients responded and went through all the stages as predicted by an experienced priest.

Dr. MacNutt thought this had to be dark ages myth, and couldn't believe people really practiced this.
Even after he wrote his book on it in 1974, he has been practicing it and teaching it to others in teams.
His book is a seminary text, and he really only wrote it upon request by people who kept asking for help to understand this.

Dr. Goldfedder is a Jewish doctor, so imagine his change of mind when someone showed him it was real and natural.

None of these people believed it without proof they saw with their own eyes and could replicate over and over.

Now sealybobo if it takes that much before people will believe it,
of course you would not be expected to understand it until you see how it works.

That's probably half the reason why it takes so long for everyone to find out,
it spreads by live demonstration, and everyone's process of healing is different.
some people are instantaneous so how can you study and document something that is already healed
by the time you find out about it.
And some cases take 10 to 25 years to heal so when do you expect to start documenting that type of study.

This stuff is ongoing. The healing ministries just keep on helping more and more people with
healing until it catches on.

 

[sealybobo]

Actually, what you provided was a rote list of claims that resolve to nothing more than people's "feelings". All of the "experiences beyond the physical" you describe "can be chalked up as hoaxes, imagination, mental disorders, hallucinations, whatever."

How is it that "something beyond the physical" is always "something beyond the demonstrable and supportable"?

Despite your desperate need to believe in gawds and supernatural spirit realms, don't confuse your alleged "rational mind" with the ability of snake oil salesmen and charlatans to prey upon such fears and superstitions.

Ask your gawds to magically regrow someone's severed limb or magically part a sea, for real this time. Until then, la cosa nostra, capice?

Yes I want to see a documentary where 6 scientists are all invited to watch an exorcism and show me those scientists reactions and their opinions afterward. I would guess they'd all agree the girl was mentally sick and probably read about exorcists and talking in tongues.

YES, I think science and religion are coming to that point.

the point is if the therapy CURES the patient,
then why not apply and access this therapy if it is shown to WORK

What part of rattling bones, reading tea leaves, lighting smelly incense, etc., is shown to cure disease?

I'm watching this Arab christiian show were the guy is going on and on about how 700 years before Christ Isaiah predicted god would come as a child and he's just quoting the bible with such confidence as if what he is reading proves anything. I see how gullible people get sucked in. But ten minutes in and I'm still waiting for something of substance. Oh its over? Did he prove or even say anything really? Not as far as I'm concerned.

I should feel bad I don't get it. I must be stupid evil or broken. Maybe I don't want it bad enough.

Don't feel bad. People with degrees and licenses didn't believe until they saw real life
demonstrations that spiritual healing works. Once you see it, then it makes sense.
but before you see it, the average brain is not going to understand how in the heck.

Dr. Peck fought for years with his good friend the priest that the Exorcist movie was based on.
And still didn't believe how any of this hocus pocus could be anything but delusion,
until he saw for himself that patients responded and went through all the stages as predicted by an experienced priest.

Dr. MacNutt thought this had to be dark ages myth, and couldn't believe people really practiced this.
Even after he wrote his book on it in 1974, he has been practicing it and teaching it to others in teams.
His book is a seminary text, and he really only wrote it upon request by people who kept asking for help to understand this.

Dr. Goldfedder is a Jewish doctor, so imagine his change of mind when someone showed him it was real and natural.

None of these people believed it without proof they saw with their own eyes and could replicate over and over.

Now sealybobo if it takes that much before people will believe it,
of course you would not be expected to understand it until you see how it works.

That's probably half the reason why it takes so long for everyone to find out,
it spreads by live demonstration, and everyone's process of healing is different.
some people are instantaneous so how can you study and document something that is already healed
by the time you find out about it.
And some cases take 10 to 25 years to heal so when do you expect to start documenting that type of study.

This stuff is ongoing. The healing ministries just keep on helping more and more people with
healing until it catches on.

Actually it doesn't take much to convince most people. Most people believe in angels devils ghosts demons angels and gods with very little actual evidence.

 

[Boss]

Boss, did you state God talks to you. sealybobo, do you have a post number to back up your statement that he did?

No, he is mischaracterizing something I said because he's a dumbass. God (my conception) doesn't "talk" because it's not human. I am a Spiritualist. I communicate daily with a force beyond my physical self. I don't "believe" this force exists, I am aware of it.

 

[Hollie]

YES, I think science and religion are coming to that point.
the point is if the therapy CURES the patient,
then why not apply and access this therapy if it is shown to WORK

What part of rattling bones, reading tea leaves, lighting smelly incense, etc., is shown to cure disease?

Nope, that is not how spiritual healing works.
It is internal work to identify unforgiven issues and pray to remove and resolve these
so the mind lets go of negative blockages that are obstructing natural healing.

No amount of placebo or fake external rituals
can substitute for real work to FORGIVE and let go of divisions and resentment
in the mind and affecting the body and relationships.

Hollie have you ever tried to fix a broken relationship with someone
by rattling bones in their face? doesn't work too well.

But for people who work to forgive and resolve damages that occurred
between them. to RESTORE trust and HEAL the wounds,
then after a lot of counseling work, their relationship can function again.

The same with the human mind and body connection.
if the energy circuit is blocked or broken, the healing doesn't flow properly.
So the circuit has to be repaired before the natural energy can flow freely.

no amount of fakery "on the outside" can replace the real internal work on the inside.

What exactly is an "energy circuit"?

 

[Hollie]

Boss, did you state God talks to you. sealybobo, do you have a post number to back up your statement that he did?

No, he is mischaracterizing something I said because he's a dumbass. God (my conception) doesn't "talk" because it's not human. I am a Spiritualist. I communicate daily with a force beyond my physical self. I don't "believe" this force exists, I am aware of it.

Do theses communications become more frequent when you miss a dose of your meds?

 

[sealybobo]

Boss, did you state God talks to you. sealybobo, do you have a post number to back up your statement that he did?

No, he is mischaracterizing something I said because he's a dumbass. God (my conception) doesn't "talk" because it's not human. I am a Spiritualist. I communicate daily with a force beyond my physical self. I don't "believe" this force exists, I am aware of it.

And it communicates with you and you him and it has helped you. Tell him.

 

[emilynghiem]

YES, I think science and religion are coming to that point.
the point is if the therapy CURES the patient,
then why not apply and access this therapy if it is shown to WORK

What part of rattling bones, reading tea leaves, lighting smelly incense, etc., is shown to cure disease?

Nope, that is not how spiritual healing works.
It is internal work to identify unforgiven issues and pray to remove and resolve these
so the mind lets go of negative blockages that are obstructing natural healing.

No amount of placebo or fake external rituals
can substitute for real work to FORGIVE and let go of divisions and resentment
in the mind and affecting the body and relationships.

Hollie have you ever tried to fix a broken relationship with someone
by rattling bones in their face? doesn't work too well.

But for people who work to forgive and resolve damages that occurred
between them. to RESTORE trust and HEAL the wounds,
then after a lot of counseling work, their relationship can function again.

The same with the human mind and body connection.
if the energy circuit is blocked or broken, the healing doesn't flow properly.
So the circuit has to be repaired before the natural energy can flow freely.

no amount of fakery "on the outside" can replace the real internal work on the inside.

What exactly is an "energy circuit"?

the flow of life energy through the mind and body
(and also connecting other people)
has been described as a circuit connecting appliances and rooms in a house.

so if there is a break in the circuit, either a blown fuse, a broken cord,
or an unplugged fixture, then the first step to get the energy flowing
is to check all the circuits; then also make sure the power is turned on.

otherwise, if appliances don't work people start blaming the appliances
as broken or trying to find where there is a break or block in the circuit.

What's funny is people know not to blame the "laws of electricity"
as false or not real or not working. We know to find where the
break is so the electricity CAN work.

The same is true of life energy and natural healing flowing
through our minds and bodies, and our relations with others:
Once we understand how the energy naturally flows,
we look for reasons why gets blocked or cut off, and try to fix it,
instead of denying it works at all.

 

[emilynghiem]

Boss, did you state God talks to you. sealybobo, do you have a post number to back up your statement that he did?

No, he is mischaracterizing something I said because he's a dumbass. God (my conception) doesn't "talk" because it's not human. I am a Spiritualist. I communicate daily with a force beyond my physical self. I don't "believe" this force exists, I am aware of it.

Hey Boss this sounds more like my bf who senses there is a God
but doesn't get into this "personal relations or interaction" stuff with it.

He is as secular gentile as you can get. Has to see proof or it's no go.
What makes him different from other "dumbasses" is he HAS seen
proof that Christianity does more good than harm, so he does not insult blame attack or obstruct that.
He gives credit for that. He hasn't seen proof of this spiritual healing,
but at least he doesn't go around attacking and insulting Christians because he at least
has sense to recognize the good Christianity has done in the world.

It is funny to me though, that he CLEARLY distinguishes Christianity from Hitler
and says "NO clearly that guy was NOT Christian"; but when it comes to
Muslims and Jihadists he CANNOT see why people make an equally clear
distinction and say "NO that clearly is NOT Islam." He can see it for one side but not the other.

He has a strong sense that something is missing from Islam.
He does see this rejection of Christianity when extreme Zionists do it
but he definitely sees it when the Jihadists do it.

 

[sealybobo]

Boss, did you state God talks to you. sealybobo, do you have a post number to back up your statement that he did?

No, he is mischaracterizing something I said because he's a dumbass. God (my conception) doesn't "talk" because it's not human. I am a Spiritualist. I communicate daily with a force beyond my physical self. I don't "believe" this force exists, I am aware of it.

Hey Boss this sounds more like my bf who senses there is a God
but doesn't get into this "personal relations or interaction" stuff with it.

He is as secular gentile as you can get. Has to see proof or it's no go.
What makes him different from other "dumbasses" is he HAS seen
proof that Christianity does more good than harm, so he does not insult blame attack or obstruct that.
He gives credit for that. He hasn't seen proof of this spiritual healing,
but at least he doesn't go around attacking and insulting Christians because he at least
has sense to recognize the good Christianity has done in the world.

It is funny to me though, that he CLEARLY distinguishes Christianity from Hitler
and says "NO clearly that guy was NOT Christian"; but when it comes to
Muslims and Jihadists he CANNOT see why people make an equally clear
distinction and say "NO that clearly is NOT Islam." He can see it for one side but not the other.

He agrees or doesnt argue because you let him fuck you. He sounds just like what I would tell you.

 

[emilynghiem]

Boss, did you state God talks to you. sealybobo, do you have a post number to back up your statement that he did?

No, he is mischaracterizing something I said because he's a dumbass. God (my conception) doesn't "talk" because it's not human. I am a Spiritualist. I communicate daily with a force beyond my physical self. I don't "believe" this force exists, I am aware of it.

Hey Boss this sounds more like my bf who senses there is a God
but doesn't get into this "personal relations or interaction" stuff with it.

He is as secular gentile as you can get. Has to see proof or it's no go.
What makes him different from other "dumbasses" is he HAS seen
proof that Christianity does more good than harm, so he does not insult blame attack or obstruct that.
He gives credit for that. He hasn't seen proof of this spiritual healing,
but at least he doesn't go around attacking and insulting Christians because he at least
has sense to recognize the good Christianity has done in the world.

It is funny to me though, that he CLEARLY distinguishes Christianity from Hitler
and says "NO clearly that guy was NOT Christian"; but when it comes to
Muslims and Jihadists he CANNOT see why people make an equally clear
distinction and say "NO that clearly is NOT Islam." He can see it for one side but not the other.

He agrees or doesnt argue because you let him fuck you. He sounds just like what I would tell you.

What? We argue all the time.
What are you talking about?

He has a bias against forgiving "Muslim extremists"
just like you have a bias against theist religions.

The only reason he has had to listen to these arguments at all
is because I use his computer and I'm in his house all the time.

He didn't like my argument that George Bush was both a military leader (through which
orders are given in war to shoot to kill without due process even if it is innocent civilians)
and a church-going Christian and those two are SEPARATE. You don't take military
instructions for soldiers in war and enforce those "out of context" in civilian peacetime
and say "that is the same Constitution" -- it's two totally different contexts and no, it is NOT
appropriate to enforce Constitutional laws that way and claim it is the Constitution.
that was the analogy I made about Mohammad having different strategies in wartime vs. civilians in peacetime, and NOT saying it is all Islam. He didn't like that but he couldn't argue with that.

We agree that rejecting Christianity is the key difference.
But he doesn't get that the FORGIVENESS issue is the real key
so when he doesn't FORGIVE he imposes a political bias.

He doesn't get that sealybobo and
NEITHER DO YOU. You have an advantage if you have a Christian
background and might can understand things more than he does.

 

[Boss]

Boss, did you state God talks to you. sealybobo, do you have a post number to back up your statement that he did?

No, he is mischaracterizing something I said because he's a dumbass. God (my conception) doesn't "talk" because it's not human. I am a Spiritualist. I communicate daily with a force beyond my physical self. I don't "believe" this force exists, I am aware of it.

Hey Boss this sounds more like my bf who senses there is a God
but doesn't get into this "personal relations or interaction" stuff with it.

He is as secular gentile as you can get. Has to see proof or it's no go.
What makes him different from other "dumbasses" is he HAS seen
proof that Christianity does more good than harm, so he does not insult blame attack or obstruct that.
He gives credit for that. He hasn't seen proof of this spiritual healing,
but at least he doesn't go around attacking and insulting Christians because he at least
has sense to recognize the good Christianity has done in the world.

It is funny to me though, that he CLEARLY distinguishes Christianity from Hitler
and says "NO clearly that guy was NOT Christian"; but when it comes to
Muslims and Jihadists he CANNOT see why people make an equally clear
distinction and say "NO that clearly is NOT Islam." He can see it for one side but not the other.

He has a strong sense that something is missing from Islam.
He does see this rejection of Christianity when extreme Zionists do it
but he definitely sees it when the Jihadists do it.

It does sound as if he has similar views. Speaking only as someone who has objectively looked into the religious history of Islam, Christianity and Judaism, the Abrahamic faiths, it appears there is a diametric to Islam, almost a slight. In many ways, the prophecies of Mohammad are sort of knock-offs from Christianity. Pepsi will never be Coke.

And as time goes on, it seems Islam has been taken over by the radicals. I mean, they are like Ken Olsteen with an AK-47. Religious nuts on a mission to violently drive society back to the 5th century through sheer terrorism. The "moderates" in Islam are silent... they're too busy beating and mutilating their teenage daughters. The biggest problem I see with Islam is, it's Christianity before Jesus, in essence. It's the violence and the angry God who punishes and brings down his wrath upon thee... not the message of love, tolerance and forgiveness, as taught by Jesus.

My mother was Christian, and if there are actual saints in heaven, she is one. She was always disappointed in me not being a Christian, but she accepted my views and respected where I stood on religion. She asked me once, in sort of a rhetorical way... Why do the Atheists hate Jesus so much? All Jesus is doing is offering them a free gift [of eternal salvation] in a pure act of love. There is nothing 'threatening' about that. She simply couldn't understand the animosity toward Jesus. Christianity is a religion of acceptance. You cannot be a Christian until you accept the terms of the religion, no one can force you to.

 

[emilynghiem]

Boss, did you state God talks to you. sealybobo, do you have a post number to back up your statement that he did?

No, he is mischaracterizing something I said because he's a dumbass. God (my conception) doesn't "talk" because it's not human. I am a Spiritualist. I communicate daily with a force beyond my physical self. I don't "believe" this force exists, I am aware of it.

Hey Boss this sounds more like my bf who senses there is a God
but doesn't get into this "personal relations or interaction" stuff with it.

He is as secular gentile as you can get. Has to see proof or it's no go.
What makes him different from other "dumbasses" is he HAS seen
proof that Christianity does more good than harm, so he does not insult blame attack or obstruct that.
He gives credit for that. He hasn't seen proof of this spiritual healing,
but at least he doesn't go around attacking and insulting Christians because he at least
has sense to recognize the good Christianity has done in the world.

It is funny to me though, that he CLEARLY distinguishes Christianity from Hitler
and says "NO clearly that guy was NOT Christian"; but when it comes to
Muslims and Jihadists he CANNOT see why people make an equally clear
distinction and say "NO that clearly is NOT Islam." He can see it for one side but not the other.

He has a strong sense that something is missing from Islam.
He does see this rejection of Christianity when extreme Zionists do it
but he definitely sees it when the Jihadists do it.

It does sound as if he has similar views. Speaking only as someone who has objectively looked into the religious history of Islam, Christianity and Judaism, the Abrahamic faiths, it appears there is a diametric to Islam, almost a slight. In many ways, the prophecies of Mohammad are sort of knock-offs from Christianity. Pepsi will never be Coke.

And as time goes on, it seems Islam has been taken over by the radicals. I mean, they are like Ken Olsteen with an AK-47. Religious nuts on a mission to violently drive society back to the 5th century through sheer terrorism. The "moderates" in Islam are silent... they're too busy beating and mutilating their teenage daughters. The biggest problem I see with Islam is, it's Christianity before Jesus, in essence. It's the violence and the angry God who punishes and brings down his wrath upon thee... not the message of love, tolerance and forgiveness, as taught by Jesus.

My mother was Christian, and if there are actual saints in heaven, she is one. She was always disappointed in me not being a Christian, but she accepted my views and respected where I stood on religion. She asked me once, in sort of a rhetorical way... Why do the Atheists hate Jesus so much? All Jesus is doing is offering them a free gift [of eternal salvation] in a pure act of love. There is nothing 'threatening' about that. She simply couldn't understand the animosity toward Jesus. Christianity is a religion of acceptance. You cannot be a Christian until you accept the terms of the religion, no one can force you to.

He and his family weren't Christian but were brought up "naturally conservative" very similar to my family who were also secular (Buddhist) and share strong traditional conservative family backgrounds.

Where this comes into play, he and I pretty much agree that this rebellion against church or govt authority
(including this disdain for Jesus and Christianity) is like teenagers going through a phase of having to separate and rebel against "Mom and Dad". so it is mommy and daddy issues projected onto party (liberals using the Democrats as the whaa-whaa-cry-to-Mommy party and conservatives using the Republicans as the whip-yo-ass Daddy party) and rebelling against the church as the mother figure and the state as the father figure.

People are either taking the role of "bully on the playground" or "brat having a hissy fit."
Instead of DOING THE WORK IT TAKES to fix problems running the household, they are fighting to take over being in charge by "telling on each other and getting the other person in trouble." None of this is about solutions, but just points for what the other does wrong.

We both criticize people who depend on party or govt to "gimmee gimmee gimmee"
but the difference is that I promote programs and invest in model solutions like campus plans that would train people in whole communities to be liberated from this, and own and manage their own districts (and call for restitution and credit back to taxpayers by wrongdoers responsible for abuses of govt resources) and he just wants to complain and then vote for other people to fix it. I am saying people need to invest directly in our parties to organize localized solutions and build them ourselves, and THEN pass those solutions that work to govt to replicate as the model.

He is not into THAT independent level of self-govt.

My friend Vern is more into doing it yourself and building business solutions to reform how govt works.

I think the difference may be that my bf is more secular, and absolutely HAS to see proof first
that a program is in place and that it works. He is not going to go out and "build it yourself."

My friend Vern and I aren't afraid to push in advance on a faith-based approach, before an idea is yet proven.

Someone has GOT to see things in advance or nothing would get done if they all have to be proven first before anyone will support them. Duh!

 

[zaangalewa]

... Going to church is like taking a dog to obedience training.

Strange.