How Did Jesus Have Patience With People?

[Ziggy]

 

[frigidweirdo]

And..the next time someone feels bad for whatever, listen to what he says.

Floyd Red Crow Westerman at Hunts-

Floyd Red Crow Westerman at Hunts- "The Missionary Song"

www.cctv.org

NA's had a helluva time...and still do. And think about those indigenous kids recently found in mass burial graves in Canada.

Christianity is not innocent.

Don't conflate mere religion or corrupt churches with Christianity. I didn't watch the whole video, but whenever people bring up things like that I always direct them to the words of Jesus. He said that if someone doesn't want to hear the message of the Gospel, shake the dust off your feet and walk out the door. Not forcibly convert anyone. He also taught to love not only your neighbor but love even your enemies. So any corrupt churches or fake Christians who did horrible things under the banner of religion were certainly not acting in a true Christian way, in other words in a way that is in harmony with the teachings of Jesus.

And then again "fake Christians" will talk about how everyone else is a "fake Christian".....

So Jesus was a fake christian? Ok!

An ex of mine had a friend, he got told by God that he was going to pass his exams, so he essentially stopped studying for his exams. And he failed.

 

[Gracie]

But before I go and slam the fucking door on this thread...you got 17 pages of people DISCUSSING. That is pretty damn good for a noob. But you go ahead and stomp around while I huff out the proverbial door.

 

[Ziggy]

I should probably post my Sabbath Songs in another thread.
Sorry Potter..
I got carried away....
Hugs

 

[Road Runner]

I should probably post my Sabbath Songs in another thread.
Sorry Potter..
I got carried away....
Hugs

You're alright, at least you're being mature about it.

 

[buttercup]

What are you basing your view of Jesus on

Faith. Proof to ME, that I will not share here. It's personal..between He and myself.

I understand. I had something amazing and very personal happen to me also, about 2 years before I came to Christ.

Btw, stuff like that reminds me of Muslims living in Muslim countries that outlaw missionaries... but they came to faith in Jesus through dreams they had of Jesus. Powerful, life-changing dreams that caused them to convert to Christianity, even though they literally risk their lives in doing that.

 

[Amadeus]

Now you know how I feel. You're telling me he didn't swear because of what's in the Bible. Come on dude. We know the Bible doesn't say EVERYTHING.

You don't know he didn't swear, as much as you don't know when he took a shit.

Fine,.. believe what you want I don't care but now you're starting to get off topic.

Well, apparently this is about whether Jesus had patience with people, and it was YOU who brought up swearing.

The reality is I don't believe anything. You're the one telling me you BELIEVE he didn't swear and your "evidence" for that is so lacking.

I merely changed the word "swearing" to "shitting" and you think it's all of a sudden ridiculous.

The reality is the Bible is a political book, it was edited, changed, it's gone through 2000 years and many translations. It's not good evidence for much at all.

If to be real in the things of God the kind of evidence you apparently would require would indeed be lacking. God's truth is not impossible to find, but the pathway to it is definite and you are not on it... so your conclusion is understandable. You have your allotted time to do with as you will and as you can.

Problem is if you're born in a Christian country then "God's truth" is very different than if you're born in a Muslim country.

How weird's that?

God's Truth is as God is, unchangeable. People are changeable. God is looking at the hearts of people and working with those who are hungry and thirsty or sometimes using those to accomplish thing we may not want to hear about. What a person has access to where he dwell is weighed against what is available to that person and what he has done with it.

Mt 5:6

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Lu 12:48

But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

That which is available in a Muslim country would be different than what is available in the United States or in Haiti. God knows the differences better than any man. "Much is given... much is required"

God can measure those thing which is why Jesus says ,

Mt 7:1	Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mt 7:2	For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

"God's Truth is as God is, unchangeable. "

Right, but then humans' interpretation of it is very changeable.

I certainly agree! A multitude of Christian denominations are one result of this. People sometimes are often looking for churches that suit their own [selfish] current beliefs and interests, whereas God, as I believe it, is looking for hearts that are truly seeking Him. God loves us but how many people really love Him as opposed to putting on a show. God knows the difference. God will help a person change if the person is really wanting to approach Him whatever the cost.

How selfish are we? Jesus, as man of flesh demonstrated a selfless ideal which alone is impossible for any man to manifest or to emulate.

Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. [Phil 2:3]

The problem here is that you're making a God who is very convenient for humans.

Humans are emotional creatures. Many humans feel the need to be loved, to feel people care about them. So we make a God who fills that role. Those people who need love more than others will be the ones more likely to believe.

Why doesn't God love cows?

What I have from God is not made up. He is not made up by me. I know you do not believe that, but what I have cannot be transferred to a closed heart and mind, but I know that I have it and that it is good.

Only God gives anyone increases in what they have that is good. I cannot do that. I cannot even answer every question you or any skeptic or doubter may have to satisfy your curiosity or to make you understand and accept what I believe.

I could tell you which way to go in order to encounter the truth, but without faith it will not work so it would amount to spinning my wheels or worse,

 

[Ziggy]

I can feel patience growing by the post..
Hugs

 

[BlackSand]

We're getting WAY off topic here people!!

.

In the movie clip I posted Ibelin was frustrated and at wit's end, threatening to burn Jerusalem to the ground.
He offered no terms and only threats to destroy Salahuddin's army.

Salahuddin did not acquiesce his desires to take Jerusalem, but was willing to guarantee the safe passage of all the Christians back to Christian lands,
although the Templars had slaughtered all the Muslims when they took the city during the Crusades.

Salahuddin had patience and forgave the Christians,
although he pondered the option that burning the city to ground might have been a good idea.

It has to do with the Topic in that one path offered failure for all, where the other path did not lead to destruction.
Perhaps Jesus would pick something other than Universal Failure as an acceptable option.
Perhaps you should too, when you become frustrated.

.​

 

[frigidweirdo]

Now you know how I feel. You're telling me he didn't swear because of what's in the Bible. Come on dude. We know the Bible doesn't say EVERYTHING.

You don't know he didn't swear, as much as you don't know when he took a shit.

Fine,.. believe what you want I don't care but now you're starting to get off topic.

Well, apparently this is about whether Jesus had patience with people, and it was YOU who brought up swearing.

The reality is I don't believe anything. You're the one telling me you BELIEVE he didn't swear and your "evidence" for that is so lacking.

I merely changed the word "swearing" to "shitting" and you think it's all of a sudden ridiculous.

The reality is the Bible is a political book, it was edited, changed, it's gone through 2000 years and many translations. It's not good evidence for much at all.

If to be real in the things of God the kind of evidence you apparently would require would indeed be lacking. God's truth is not impossible to find, but the pathway to it is definite and you are not on it... so your conclusion is understandable. You have your allotted time to do with as you will and as you can.

Problem is if you're born in a Christian country then "God's truth" is very different than if you're born in a Muslim country.

How weird's that?

God's Truth is as God is, unchangeable. People are changeable. God is looking at the hearts of people and working with those who are hungry and thirsty or sometimes using those to accomplish thing we may not want to hear about. What a person has access to where he dwell is weighed against what is available to that person and what he has done with it.

Mt 5:6

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Lu 12:48

But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

That which is available in a Muslim country would be different than what is available in the United States or in Haiti. God knows the differences better than any man. "Much is given... much is required"

God can measure those thing which is why Jesus says ,

Mt 7:1	Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mt 7:2	For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

"God's Truth is as God is, unchangeable. "

Right, but then humans' interpretation of it is very changeable.

I certainly agree! A multitude of Christian denominations are one result of this. People sometimes are often looking for churches that suit their own [selfish] current beliefs and interests, whereas God, as I believe it, is looking for hearts that are truly seeking Him. God loves us but how many people really love Him as opposed to putting on a show. God knows the difference. God will help a person change if the person is really wanting to approach Him whatever the cost.

How selfish are we? Jesus, as man of flesh demonstrated a selfless ideal which alone is impossible for any man to manifest or to emulate.

Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. [Phil 2:3]

The problem here is that you're making a God who is very convenient for humans.

Humans are emotional creatures. Many humans feel the need to be loved, to feel people care about them. So we make a God who fills that role. Those people who need love more than others will be the ones more likely to believe.

Why doesn't God love cows?

What I have from God is not made up. He is not made up by me. I know you do not believe that, but what I have cannot be transferred to a closed heart and mind, but I know that I have it and that it is good.

Only God gives anyone increases in what they have that is good. I cannot do that. I cannot even answer every question you or any skeptic or doubter may have to satisfy your curiosity or to make you understand and accept what I believe.

I could tell you which way to go in order to encounter the truth, but without faith it will not work so it would amount to spinning my wheels or worse,

How do you know it comes from God?

Basically this is what you "believe". "believe" means to accept something without knowing what it is.

It's fine, if that's what it takes for you to get through life. But talking about it with people like me is probably not a good idea because we're going to find all those holes in your arguments.

 

[surada]

What are you basing your view of Jesus on

Faith. Proof to ME, that I will not share here. It's personal..between He and myself.

I understand. I had something amazing and very personal happen to me also, about 2 years before I came to Christ.

Btw, stuff like that reminds me of Muslims living in Muslim countries that outlaw missionaries... but they came to faith in Jesus through dreams they had of Jesus. Powerful, life-changing dreams that caused them to convert to Christianity, even though they literally risk their lives in doing that.

Most Muslims I have met in the Middle East know a lot about Jesus, Mary and the Patriarchs because they revere Jesus.

 

[Amadeus]

Now you know how I feel. You're telling me he didn't swear because of what's in the Bible. Come on dude. We know the Bible doesn't say EVERYTHING.

You don't know he didn't swear, as much as you don't know when he took a shit.

Fine,.. believe what you want I don't care but now you're starting to get off topic.

Well, apparently this is about whether Jesus had patience with people, and it was YOU who brought up swearing.

The reality is I don't believe anything. You're the one telling me you BELIEVE he didn't swear and your "evidence" for that is so lacking.

I merely changed the word "swearing" to "shitting" and you think it's all of a sudden ridiculous.

The reality is the Bible is a political book, it was edited, changed, it's gone through 2000 years and many translations. It's not good evidence for much at all.

If to be real in the things of God the kind of evidence you apparently would require would indeed be lacking. God's truth is not impossible to find, but the pathway to it is definite and you are not on it... so your conclusion is understandable. You have your allotted time to do with as you will and as you can.

Problem is if you're born in a Christian country then "God's truth" is very different than if you're born in a Muslim country.

How weird's that?

God's Truth is as God is, unchangeable. People are changeable. God is looking at the hearts of people and working with those who are hungry and thirsty or sometimes using those to accomplish thing we may not want to hear about. What a person has access to where he dwell is weighed against what is available to that person and what he has done with it.

Mt 5:6

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Lu 12:48

But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

That which is available in a Muslim country would be different than what is available in the United States or in Haiti. God knows the differences better than any man. "Much is given... much is required"

God can measure those thing which is why Jesus says ,

Mt 7:1	Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mt 7:2	For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

"God's Truth is as God is, unchangeable. "

Right, but then humans' interpretation of it is very changeable.

I certainly agree! A multitude of Christian denominations are one result of this. People sometimes are often looking for churches that suit their own [selfish] current beliefs and interests, whereas God, as I believe it, is looking for hearts that are truly seeking Him. God loves us but how many people really love Him as opposed to putting on a show. God knows the difference. God will help a person change if the person is really wanting to approach Him whatever the cost.

How selfish are we? Jesus, as man of flesh demonstrated a selfless ideal which alone is impossible for any man to manifest or to emulate.

Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. [Phil 2:3]

The problem here is that you're making a God who is very convenient for humans.

Humans are emotional creatures. Many humans feel the need to be loved, to feel people care about them. So we make a God who fills that role. Those people who need love more than others will be the ones more likely to believe.

Why doesn't God love cows?

What I have from God is not made up. He is not made up by me. I know you do not believe that, but what I have cannot be transferred to a closed heart and mind, but I know that I have it and that it is good.

Only God gives anyone increases in what they have that is good. I cannot do that. I cannot even answer every question you or any skeptic or doubter may have to satisfy your curiosity or to make you understand and accept what I believe.

I could tell you which way to go in order to encounter the truth, but without faith it will not work so it would amount to spinning my wheels or worse,

How do you know it comes from God?

Basically this is what you "believe". "believe" means to accept something without knowing what it is.

It's fine, if that's what it takes for you to get through life. But talking about it with people like me is probably not a good idea because we're going to find all those holes in your arguments.

You asked questions about my faith, not about my knowledge versus your knowledge. What if the whole of what carnal men such as yourself call reality is a temporal, fictional place, for each person can only begin to become Reality through faith toward and in God? People who have nothing Real at the end of their part in it [natural death] for the most part simply from that point... are not. They then do not exist!

What if Knowledge, real knowledge does not come to anyone by or through logical or other conclusions drawn in the mind based on those things perceived by the five natural senses and considered in the mind? What if people only believe that it does.

I will provide for you a starting point... but I already told you that you are not ready for it.

But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. [Heb 11:6]

Circular reasoning some men would say, but how many man know the mind and ways of God?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Now you know how I feel. You're telling me he didn't swear because of what's in the Bible. Come on dude. We know the Bible doesn't say EVERYTHING.

You don't know he didn't swear, as much as you don't know when he took a shit.

Fine,.. believe what you want I don't care but now you're starting to get off topic.

Well, apparently this is about whether Jesus had patience with people, and it was YOU who brought up swearing.

The reality is I don't believe anything. You're the one telling me you BELIEVE he didn't swear and your "evidence" for that is so lacking.

I merely changed the word "swearing" to "shitting" and you think it's all of a sudden ridiculous.

The reality is the Bible is a political book, it was edited, changed, it's gone through 2000 years and many translations. It's not good evidence for much at all.

If to be real in the things of God the kind of evidence you apparently would require would indeed be lacking. God's truth is not impossible to find, but the pathway to it is definite and you are not on it... so your conclusion is understandable. You have your allotted time to do with as you will and as you can.

Problem is if you're born in a Christian country then "God's truth" is very different than if you're born in a Muslim country.

How weird's that?

God's Truth is as God is, unchangeable. People are changeable. God is looking at the hearts of people and working with those who are hungry and thirsty or sometimes using those to accomplish thing we may not want to hear about. What a person has access to where he dwell is weighed against what is available to that person and what he has done with it.

Mt 5:6

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Lu 12:48

But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

That which is available in a Muslim country would be different than what is available in the United States or in Haiti. God knows the differences better than any man. "Much is given... much is required"

God can measure those thing which is why Jesus says ,

Mt 7:1	Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mt 7:2	For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

"God's Truth is as God is, unchangeable. "

Right, but then humans' interpretation of it is very changeable.

I certainly agree! A multitude of Christian denominations are one result of this. People sometimes are often looking for churches that suit their own [selfish] current beliefs and interests, whereas God, as I believe it, is looking for hearts that are truly seeking Him. God loves us but how many people really love Him as opposed to putting on a show. God knows the difference. God will help a person change if the person is really wanting to approach Him whatever the cost.

How selfish are we? Jesus, as man of flesh demonstrated a selfless ideal which alone is impossible for any man to manifest or to emulate.

Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. [Phil 2:3]

The problem here is that you're making a God who is very convenient for humans.

Humans are emotional creatures. Many humans feel the need to be loved, to feel people care about them. So we make a God who fills that role. Those people who need love more than others will be the ones more likely to believe.

Why doesn't God love cows?

What I have from God is not made up. He is not made up by me. I know you do not believe that, but what I have cannot be transferred to a closed heart and mind, but I know that I have it and that it is good.

Only God gives anyone increases in what they have that is good. I cannot do that. I cannot even answer every question you or any skeptic or doubter may have to satisfy your curiosity or to make you understand and accept what I believe.

I could tell you which way to go in order to encounter the truth, but without faith it will not work so it would amount to spinning my wheels or worse,

How do you know it comes from God?

Basically this is what you "believe". "believe" means to accept something without knowing what it is.

It's fine, if that's what it takes for you to get through life. But talking about it with people like me is probably not a good idea because we're going to find all those holes in your arguments.

You asked questions about my faith, not about my knowledge versus your knowledge. What if the whole of what carnal men such as yourself call reality is a temporal, fictional place, for each person can only begin to become Reality through faith toward and in God? People who have nothing Real at the end of their part in it [natural death] for the most part simply from that point... are not. They then do not exist!

What if Knowledge, real knowledge does not come to anyone by or through logical or other conclusions drawn in the mind based on those things perceived by the five natural senses and considered in the mind? What if people only believe that it does.

I will provide for you a starting point... but I already told you that you are not ready for it.

But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. [Heb 11:6]

Circular reasoning some men would say, but how many man know the mind and ways of God?

So you're separating "faith" and "knowledge"?

Does that mean your "faith" has nothing to do with "knowledge"? Does that mean you know nothing of God and all the religious stuff. You just "faith" it?

 

[Ziggy]

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

You have to have knowledge of and about God before you can believe that he is. And in order to have faith one must believe that he is.
Do you believe that the sun rises every morning? How do you know this?
It's raining and it's cloudy and you can't always see it, and yet you believe because you know, and therefore because you can't see it, it is by faith that you believe the sun is shining somewhere even though you can't see it.

Do you believe in gravity? How do you know it exists?
You can't see it, touch it, taste it or smell it, and yet you know it because you see the results of it.
You have faith that if you drop a rock from a tall building it will fall to the ground.
Not because you can observe the gravity itself, but you observe the results.

People who have faith believe in God because we know God and have observed the results in our own lives.
If you do not know God, do not believe in God, have no faith in God, perhaps it's because you choose not to observe the obvious.
This is what the bible refers to as being blind and deaf.
Willfully ignorant.

Your question is foolish.

 

[Amadeus]

Now you know how I feel. You're telling me he didn't swear because of what's in the Bible. Come on dude. We know the Bible doesn't say EVERYTHING.

You don't know he didn't swear, as much as you don't know when he took a shit.

Fine,.. believe what you want I don't care but now you're starting to get off topic.

Well, apparently this is about whether Jesus had patience with people, and it was YOU who brought up swearing.

The reality is I don't believe anything. You're the one telling me you BELIEVE he didn't swear and your "evidence" for that is so lacking.

I merely changed the word "swearing" to "shitting" and you think it's all of a sudden ridiculous.

The reality is the Bible is a political book, it was edited, changed, it's gone through 2000 years and many translations. It's not good evidence for much at all.

If to be real in the things of God the kind of evidence you apparently would require would indeed be lacking. God's truth is not impossible to find, but the pathway to it is definite and you are not on it... so your conclusion is understandable. You have your allotted time to do with as you will and as you can.

Problem is if you're born in a Christian country then "God's truth" is very different than if you're born in a Muslim country.

How weird's that?

God's Truth is as God is, unchangeable. People are changeable. God is looking at the hearts of people and working with those who are hungry and thirsty or sometimes using those to accomplish thing we may not want to hear about. What a person has access to where he dwell is weighed against what is available to that person and what he has done with it.

Mt 5:6

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Lu 12:48

But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

That which is available in a Muslim country would be different than what is available in the United States or in Haiti. God knows the differences better than any man. "Much is given... much is required"

God can measure those thing which is why Jesus says ,

Mt 7:1	Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mt 7:2	For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

"God's Truth is as God is, unchangeable. "

Right, but then humans' interpretation of it is very changeable.

I certainly agree! A multitude of Christian denominations are one result of this. People sometimes are often looking for churches that suit their own [selfish] current beliefs and interests, whereas God, as I believe it, is looking for hearts that are truly seeking Him. God loves us but how many people really love Him as opposed to putting on a show. God knows the difference. God will help a person change if the person is really wanting to approach Him whatever the cost.

How selfish are we? Jesus, as man of flesh demonstrated a selfless ideal which alone is impossible for any man to manifest or to emulate.

Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. [Phil 2:3]

The problem here is that you're making a God who is very convenient for humans.

Humans are emotional creatures. Many humans feel the need to be loved, to feel people care about them. So we make a God who fills that role. Those people who need love more than others will be the ones more likely to believe.

Why doesn't God love cows?

What I have from God is not made up. He is not made up by me. I know you do not believe that, but what I have cannot be transferred to a closed heart and mind, but I know that I have it and that it is good.

Only God gives anyone increases in what they have that is good. I cannot do that. I cannot even answer every question you or any skeptic or doubter may have to satisfy your curiosity or to make you understand and accept what I believe.

I could tell you which way to go in order to encounter the truth, but without faith it will not work so it would amount to spinning my wheels or worse,

How do you know it comes from God?

Basically this is what you "believe". "believe" means to accept something without knowing what it is.

It's fine, if that's what it takes for you to get through life. But talking about it with people like me is probably not a good idea because we're going to find all those holes in your arguments.

You asked questions about my faith, not about my knowledge versus your knowledge. What if the whole of what carnal men such as yourself call reality is a temporal, fictional place, for each person can only begin to become Reality through faith toward and in God? People who have nothing Real at the end of their part in it [natural death] for the most part simply from that point... are not. They then do not exist!

What if Knowledge, real knowledge does not come to anyone by or through logical or other conclusions drawn in the mind based on those things perceived by the five natural senses and considered in the mind? What if people only believe that it does.

I will provide for you a starting point... but I already told you that you are not ready for it.

But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. [Heb 11:6]

Circular reasoning some men would say, but how many man know the mind and ways of God?

So you're separating "faith" and "knowledge"?

Does that mean your "faith" has nothing to do with "knowledge"? Does that mean you know nothing of God and all the religious stuff. You just "faith" it?

Faith when it is finished leaves knowledge IF any real knowledge has been gained. The separation between the two is where people have trouble correctly drawing the line. This is one reason for the multitude of Christian denominations.

In the following verse for someone with "eyes to see" is seen the end of the matter...

Heb 12:2

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

 

[Ziggy]

The Light at the end of the tunnel.

Sometimes that tunnel has so many twists and turns... Just have to stay on course, keep to the path.
The end is worth the journey.

Thank You amadeus
HUGS

 

[frigidweirdo]

Now you know how I feel. You're telling me he didn't swear because of what's in the Bible. Come on dude. We know the Bible doesn't say EVERYTHING.

You don't know he didn't swear, as much as you don't know when he took a shit.

Fine,.. believe what you want I don't care but now you're starting to get off topic.

Well, apparently this is about whether Jesus had patience with people, and it was YOU who brought up swearing.

The reality is I don't believe anything. You're the one telling me you BELIEVE he didn't swear and your "evidence" for that is so lacking.

I merely changed the word "swearing" to "shitting" and you think it's all of a sudden ridiculous.

The reality is the Bible is a political book, it was edited, changed, it's gone through 2000 years and many translations. It's not good evidence for much at all.

If to be real in the things of God the kind of evidence you apparently would require would indeed be lacking. God's truth is not impossible to find, but the pathway to it is definite and you are not on it... so your conclusion is understandable. You have your allotted time to do with as you will and as you can.

Problem is if you're born in a Christian country then "God's truth" is very different than if you're born in a Muslim country.

How weird's that?

God's Truth is as God is, unchangeable. People are changeable. God is looking at the hearts of people and working with those who are hungry and thirsty or sometimes using those to accomplish thing we may not want to hear about. What a person has access to where he dwell is weighed against what is available to that person and what he has done with it.

Mt 5:6

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Lu 12:48

But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

That which is available in a Muslim country would be different than what is available in the United States or in Haiti. God knows the differences better than any man. "Much is given... much is required"

God can measure those thing which is why Jesus says ,

Mt 7:1	Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mt 7:2	For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

"God's Truth is as God is, unchangeable. "

Right, but then humans' interpretation of it is very changeable.

I certainly agree! A multitude of Christian denominations are one result of this. People sometimes are often looking for churches that suit their own [selfish] current beliefs and interests, whereas God, as I believe it, is looking for hearts that are truly seeking Him. God loves us but how many people really love Him as opposed to putting on a show. God knows the difference. God will help a person change if the person is really wanting to approach Him whatever the cost.

How selfish are we? Jesus, as man of flesh demonstrated a selfless ideal which alone is impossible for any man to manifest or to emulate.

Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. [Phil 2:3]

The problem here is that you're making a God who is very convenient for humans.

Humans are emotional creatures. Many humans feel the need to be loved, to feel people care about them. So we make a God who fills that role. Those people who need love more than others will be the ones more likely to believe.

Why doesn't God love cows?

What I have from God is not made up. He is not made up by me. I know you do not believe that, but what I have cannot be transferred to a closed heart and mind, but I know that I have it and that it is good.

Only God gives anyone increases in what they have that is good. I cannot do that. I cannot even answer every question you or any skeptic or doubter may have to satisfy your curiosity or to make you understand and accept what I believe.

I could tell you which way to go in order to encounter the truth, but without faith it will not work so it would amount to spinning my wheels or worse,

How do you know it comes from God?

Basically this is what you "believe". "believe" means to accept something without knowing what it is.

It's fine, if that's what it takes for you to get through life. But talking about it with people like me is probably not a good idea because we're going to find all those holes in your arguments.

You asked questions about my faith, not about my knowledge versus your knowledge. What if the whole of what carnal men such as yourself call reality is a temporal, fictional place, for each person can only begin to become Reality through faith toward and in God? People who have nothing Real at the end of their part in it [natural death] for the most part simply from that point... are not. They then do not exist!

What if Knowledge, real knowledge does not come to anyone by or through logical or other conclusions drawn in the mind based on those things perceived by the five natural senses and considered in the mind? What if people only believe that it does.

I will provide for you a starting point... but I already told you that you are not ready for it.

But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. [Heb 11:6]

Circular reasoning some men would say, but how many man know the mind and ways of God?

So you're separating "faith" and "knowledge"?

Does that mean your "faith" has nothing to do with "knowledge"? Does that mean you know nothing of God and all the religious stuff. You just "faith" it?

Faith when it is finished leaves knowledge IF any real knowledge has been gained. The separation between the two is where people have trouble correctly drawing the line. This is one reason for the multitude of Christian denominations.

In the following verse for someone with "eyes to see" is seen the end of the matter...

Heb 12:2

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Well, you're going to have to explain that a little more, because I don't get what you mean.

 

[Amadeus]

Now you know how I feel. You're telling me he didn't swear because of what's in the Bible. Come on dude. We know the Bible doesn't say EVERYTHING.

You don't know he didn't swear, as much as you don't know when he took a shit.

Fine,.. believe what you want I don't care but now you're starting to get off topic.

Well, apparently this is about whether Jesus had patience with people, and it was YOU who brought up swearing.

The reality is I don't believe anything. You're the one telling me you BELIEVE he didn't swear and your "evidence" for that is so lacking.

I merely changed the word "swearing" to "shitting" and you think it's all of a sudden ridiculous.

The reality is the Bible is a political book, it was edited, changed, it's gone through 2000 years and many translations. It's not good evidence for much at all.

If to be real in the things of God the kind of evidence you apparently would require would indeed be lacking. God's truth is not impossible to find, but the pathway to it is definite and you are not on it... so your conclusion is understandable. You have your allotted time to do with as you will and as you can.

Problem is if you're born in a Christian country then "God's truth" is very different than if you're born in a Muslim country.

How weird's that?

God's Truth is as God is, unchangeable. People are changeable. God is looking at the hearts of people and working with those who are hungry and thirsty or sometimes using those to accomplish thing we may not want to hear about. What a person has access to where he dwell is weighed against what is available to that person and what he has done with it.

Mt 5:6

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Lu 12:48

But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

That which is available in a Muslim country would be different than what is available in the United States or in Haiti. God knows the differences better than any man. "Much is given... much is required"

God can measure those thing which is why Jesus says ,

Mt 7:1	Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mt 7:2	For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

"God's Truth is as God is, unchangeable. "

Right, but then humans' interpretation of it is very changeable.

I certainly agree! A multitude of Christian denominations are one result of this. People sometimes are often looking for churches that suit their own [selfish] current beliefs and interests, whereas God, as I believe it, is looking for hearts that are truly seeking Him. God loves us but how many people really love Him as opposed to putting on a show. God knows the difference. God will help a person change if the person is really wanting to approach Him whatever the cost.

How selfish are we? Jesus, as man of flesh demonstrated a selfless ideal which alone is impossible for any man to manifest or to emulate.

Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. [Phil 2:3]

The problem here is that you're making a God who is very convenient for humans.

Humans are emotional creatures. Many humans feel the need to be loved, to feel people care about them. So we make a God who fills that role. Those people who need love more than others will be the ones more likely to believe.

Why doesn't God love cows?

What I have from God is not made up. He is not made up by me. I know you do not believe that, but what I have cannot be transferred to a closed heart and mind, but I know that I have it and that it is good.

Only God gives anyone increases in what they have that is good. I cannot do that. I cannot even answer every question you or any skeptic or doubter may have to satisfy your curiosity or to make you understand and accept what I believe.

I could tell you which way to go in order to encounter the truth, but without faith it will not work so it would amount to spinning my wheels or worse,

How do you know it comes from God?

Basically this is what you "believe". "believe" means to accept something without knowing what it is.

It's fine, if that's what it takes for you to get through life. But talking about it with people like me is probably not a good idea because we're going to find all those holes in your arguments.

You asked questions about my faith, not about my knowledge versus your knowledge. What if the whole of what carnal men such as yourself call reality is a temporal, fictional place, for each person can only begin to become Reality through faith toward and in God? People who have nothing Real at the end of their part in it [natural death] for the most part simply from that point... are not. They then do not exist!

What if Knowledge, real knowledge does not come to anyone by or through logical or other conclusions drawn in the mind based on those things perceived by the five natural senses and considered in the mind? What if people only believe that it does.

I will provide for you a starting point... but I already told you that you are not ready for it.

But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. [Heb 11:6]

Circular reasoning some men would say, but how many man know the mind and ways of God?

So you're separating "faith" and "knowledge"?

Does that mean your "faith" has nothing to do with "knowledge"? Does that mean you know nothing of God and all the religious stuff. You just "faith" it?

Faith when it is finished leaves knowledge IF any real knowledge has been gained. The separation between the two is where people have trouble correctly drawing the line. This is one reason for the multitude of Christian denominations.

In the following verse for someone with "eyes to see" is seen the end of the matter...

Heb 12:2

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Well, you're going to have to explain that a little more, because I don't get what you mean.

No, the explanation is clear enough for those with eyes to see and ears to hear. God will write it in the heart of a person who is hungry and thirsty for the right things and willing to do things God's Way. There are no exceptions. You want to live your own way? That is being allowed.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Now you know how I feel. You're telling me he didn't swear because of what's in the Bible. Come on dude. We know the Bible doesn't say EVERYTHING.

You don't know he didn't swear, as much as you don't know when he took a shit.

Fine,.. believe what you want I don't care but now you're starting to get off topic.

Well, apparently this is about whether Jesus had patience with people, and it was YOU who brought up swearing.

The reality is I don't believe anything. You're the one telling me you BELIEVE he didn't swear and your "evidence" for that is so lacking.

I merely changed the word "swearing" to "shitting" and you think it's all of a sudden ridiculous.

The reality is the Bible is a political book, it was edited, changed, it's gone through 2000 years and many translations. It's not good evidence for much at all.

If to be real in the things of God the kind of evidence you apparently would require would indeed be lacking. God's truth is not impossible to find, but the pathway to it is definite and you are not on it... so your conclusion is understandable. You have your allotted time to do with as you will and as you can.

Problem is if you're born in a Christian country then "God's truth" is very different than if you're born in a Muslim country.

How weird's that?

God's Truth is as God is, unchangeable. People are changeable. God is looking at the hearts of people and working with those who are hungry and thirsty or sometimes using those to accomplish thing we may not want to hear about. What a person has access to where he dwell is weighed against what is available to that person and what he has done with it.

Mt 5:6

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Lu 12:48

But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

That which is available in a Muslim country would be different than what is available in the United States or in Haiti. God knows the differences better than any man. "Much is given... much is required"

God can measure those thing which is why Jesus says ,

Mt 7:1	Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mt 7:2	For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

"God's Truth is as God is, unchangeable. "

Right, but then humans' interpretation of it is very changeable.

I certainly agree! A multitude of Christian denominations are one result of this. People sometimes are often looking for churches that suit their own [selfish] current beliefs and interests, whereas God, as I believe it, is looking for hearts that are truly seeking Him. God loves us but how many people really love Him as opposed to putting on a show. God knows the difference. God will help a person change if the person is really wanting to approach Him whatever the cost.

How selfish are we? Jesus, as man of flesh demonstrated a selfless ideal which alone is impossible for any man to manifest or to emulate.

Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. [Phil 2:3]

The problem here is that you're making a God who is very convenient for humans.

Humans are emotional creatures. Many humans feel the need to be loved, to feel people care about them. So we make a God who fills that role. Those people who need love more than others will be the ones more likely to believe.

Why doesn't God love cows?

What I have from God is not made up. He is not made up by me. I know you do not believe that, but what I have cannot be transferred to a closed heart and mind, but I know that I have it and that it is good.

Only God gives anyone increases in what they have that is good. I cannot do that. I cannot even answer every question you or any skeptic or doubter may have to satisfy your curiosity or to make you understand and accept what I believe.

I could tell you which way to go in order to encounter the truth, but without faith it will not work so it would amount to spinning my wheels or worse,

How do you know it comes from God?

Basically this is what you "believe". "believe" means to accept something without knowing what it is.

It's fine, if that's what it takes for you to get through life. But talking about it with people like me is probably not a good idea because we're going to find all those holes in your arguments.

You asked questions about my faith, not about my knowledge versus your knowledge. What if the whole of what carnal men such as yourself call reality is a temporal, fictional place, for each person can only begin to become Reality through faith toward and in God? People who have nothing Real at the end of their part in it [natural death] for the most part simply from that point... are not. They then do not exist!

What if Knowledge, real knowledge does not come to anyone by or through logical or other conclusions drawn in the mind based on those things perceived by the five natural senses and considered in the mind? What if people only believe that it does.

I will provide for you a starting point... but I already told you that you are not ready for it.

But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. [Heb 11:6]

Circular reasoning some men would say, but how many man know the mind and ways of God?

So you're separating "faith" and "knowledge"?

Does that mean your "faith" has nothing to do with "knowledge"? Does that mean you know nothing of God and all the religious stuff. You just "faith" it?

Faith when it is finished leaves knowledge IF any real knowledge has been gained. The separation between the two is where people have trouble correctly drawing the line. This is one reason for the multitude of Christian denominations.

In the following verse for someone with "eyes to see" is seen the end of the matter...

Heb 12:2

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Well, you're going to have to explain that a little more, because I don't get what you mean.

No, the explanation is clear enough for those with eyes to see and ears to hear. God will write it in the heart of a person who is hungry and thirsty for the right things and willing to do things God's Way. There are no exceptions. You want to live your own way? That is being allowed.

That doesn't make sense.

God makes creatures. Then only those who are hungry and thirsty for God will be able to communicate with God. Why would God do that?

It's like God selling telephones, but only installing the ability for outside calls to some of those phones.

What are you suggesting God is, a con artist or just incompetent?

 

[Ziggy]

Amadeus
Mat 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

HUGS