How Can The Free World Help The Ukrainian War Effort!

[GLASNOST]

View attachment 721148

~S~

That's about the size of Washington's propaganda.

 

[miketx]

The people of Ukraine must understand why the United States cannot establish a "No-Fly" zone over Ukraine. The short answer is that it would create too high of a risk of a nuclear war with Russia, this writer's personal opinion is that it would definitely cause a nuclear war with Russia. The reasoning here starts with Vladimir Putin's character. He is the most ruthless, callous type of person a human being can be, killing millions of people would not cause personal turmoil for Mr. Putin like it would a normal person, doing such an act would be like making a move on a chess board for Putin. President Putin's behavior in Syria, Chechnya and the Separatist areas of Ukraine back around 2014 demonstrate this complete disregard for human life. Further Vladimir Putin is a barbarian there is no real commitment in him to be virtuous meaning that if one hurts him he is going to hurt that person back, it is his mode of survival it goes to the core of his character; his whole life demonstrates this. If America establishes a No-fly zone in Ukraine it would have to enforce it and since Russia has ground troops in Ukraine and Russian air cover is vital to protecting that force and aiding in that force succeeding in its mission, Russian pilots would have to fly into Ukraine resulting in U.S. pilots having to shoot them down. The loss of Russian pilots plus the corresponding loss of Russian ground forces would be something Vladimir Putin could not let pass his character would not allow it and the only means he would have to strike back at America is to use a nuclear weapon. Russia has various size nuclear weapons so Vladimir Putin would likely use a small size nuclear weapon which would then kill at least tens of thousands of people and then America would have to respond because for the security of the world and especially for the American people the U.S. government cannot allow a sovereign government to unjustly use a nuclear weapon and not militarily respond in a manner that matches the nuclear harm meaning the U.S. would have to at least use a small size nuclear weapon that would kill tens of thousands of Russians; even if the U.S. does not continue the unfolding back and forth that would result from the Putin's guaranteed further nuclear retaliation the world is still going to see a hundred plus thousand of civilians dead over this matter with now the use of nuclear weapons foreseeable threats in the world or quasi acceptable behavior; for the security of the world this path cannot be traveled. Further evidence of the risk that Vladimir Putin would use nuclear weapons are his comments he made six days ago that if outside countries interfere in Russia's military move in Ukraine "they must know that Russia will respond immediately, and the consequences will be such as you have never seen in your entire history."; many credible assessments conclude Vladimir Putin was referring here to the use of nuclear weapons.

Nevertheless I don't know why the Free World including the U.S. cannot get the Ukrainian Security Forces SAM systems (surface-to-air missile defense systems). I don't mean giving the Ukrainian military America's Patriot SAM systems; one these are complex systems that require great skill to operate which the Ukraine military does not have the personnel to operate plus in order for these systems to make a difference in the Ukrainian/Russian war a lot of Patriot batteries would have to be given to Ukraine and since this war is a David vs. Goliath war with Ukraine holding the David role some of these Patriot systems would be captured by Russia where the Russians could then study the systems and then know America's capability to shoot down Russian ballistic missiles and counter our America's SAM defense systems leaving America weaker. But the Ukraine military doesn't need "Porsche" SAM systems, "Volkswagen" SAM systems will do the Russian military is using air power like cruise missiles (used on Freedom Square in Kharkiv) {cruise missiles are old technology they have been around since the 1980's} and planes flying low enough it sort of looks like they are giving an air show to the Ukrainians. There is like a hundred plus countries with SAM systems why doesn't the Free World just give the Ukrainian government the money to buy SAM systems in the open market?

The other thing that the Free World seems to falling down on in giving the Ukrainian military weapons is drones. Yes, the Ukrainian military has drones and the media has shown them as being effective. But is Europe and America getting the Ukrainian military sufficient numbers of drones, it seems doubtful! One sees the media images of the Russian military in Ukraine and there is lines of tanks and trucks that have rocket launchers on them, military experts say that for an opposing army that had good air power that the Russian Army in Ukraine provides a target rich environment. The point here is that if the Ukrainian Army could get more drones that could lessen the imbalance in the war where Russia dwarfs Ukraine in military power because the drones could be used to degrade the Russian military's ability to deliver explosive ordinance on Ukraine cities under military assault by destroying these Russian vehicle weapon systems. It is not like the Free World would have to train up Ukrainian pilots to increase the Ukrainian drone capability, these drone weapons really even the most undeveloped militaries and fighting forces can master this weapon system. The Houthis rebels in Yemen use drone weapons quite effectively, and the Islamic State early in their success used drones in Syria and Iraq and to a large degree and actually used commercially available drone technology!

It was unfortunate the mix up this week where the Ukraine government thought they were going to get Soviet era military planes from European Union countries to help them fight this war against Russia; but one cannot really begrudge these European Union countries because if Ukraine falls to Russia and/or Belarus sends its armed forces into the war on the side of Russia which is a real possibility depending on Russia's need as determined by Vladimir Putin these European Union countries are going to need every plane they have to defend their own people. Looking at this problem one could break it down as such; one really good thing is that Ukraine has a significant number of fighter pilots that have the experience to fly combat planes but government just needs the fighter planes. How about those dozens of combat planes flown out of the country of Afghanistan six months ago when Afghanistan fell to the Taliban and the Afghanistan pilots flew their planes out of the country so they wouldn't have been killed by the Taliban. Technically these planes were given to the Afghanistan government by the U.S. government for such government to defend the people of Afghanistan since the Afghanistan government is no more the agreement for transferring the planes should be null and void and so the U.S. should be free to transfer the planes to Ukraine. Ukraine needs combat planes this war caused by Russia is slowing the world's economic recovery from the Covid 19 pandemic more specifically it is costing the world tens if not hundreds of billions of dollars cannot the free world find a decent bank roll and give it to their intelligent services to buy combat planes that need money more than they need combat planes and give the planes to the Ukrainian government, the sooner the world can bring this Russian invasion war to an end the sooner it can get things to a reasonable sense of normalcy and that will be dramatically better for the world economy.

From an outsiders point of view watching the performance of the Ukrainian military and security forces in trying to fight against the Russian invasion one question arises why do Ukrainians leave their country's bridges intact when they lose territory to the Russian Army it seems like Defense 101 that Ukraine would wire major bridge's with explosives and when they are on the verge of losing the territory where the bridge is at to the Russians blow-up the bridge so the Russians cannot use it. This is especially the case in the south, Russia clearly has as its goal to deny the Ukrainian people access to the Black Sea which will strangle the Ukrainian economy because the Ukraine economy depends on exports that are funneled thru the Black Sea and in order to do this Russia has to take a lot of territory on the southern coast of Ukraine and along this coast there is a lot of tributaries which have bridges that cross them. If the bridges are destroyed it majorly hurts Russian supply lines. Many people believe that if worst comes to worst for the Ukrainian people they can win this war through a tenacious insurgency, destroying bridges in Russian controlled territory would be a major step for the Ukrainian insurgency in turning the tide in the war, isolate Russian units, one would think it would be the Ukrainian militaries top priority to blow the bridges before it loses the territory. One of America's preeminent Generals, General David Petraeus, who lead America's forces during the Iraq war when that war was in a stalemate and America was doing a large force and resource surge into Iraq and ultimately brought that war to a successful resolution and has the reputation as having essentially written the U.S. military manual in combating an insurgency says that Russia cannot win this war if the Ukrainian put up a permanent firm resistance. General Petraeus says Russia can take the ground in Ukraine but cannot hold it the Russian Army does not have number of forces in Ukraine to hold the Ukrainian territory against a tenacious resistance.

This writer has no military background so I am a sofa general so probably these following comments are stupid but I mention it because there doesn't seem like there is any answers to the following problem. Ukraine has this forty mile Russia mechanized column with the column's front at the Capital city, Kyiv's, gate. Most people think that in the next few days Russia is going to encircle Kyiv with the spectrum of weapon systems from the column and essentially level the city thereby largely wiping out the city's resistance so the Russians can then take Kyiv. The common consensus throughout the world is that Ukraine cannot do anything about this. Of course there is no easy battlefield strategy for the Ukrainian military to combat this. One would like to see the Ukrainian military do something more than wait until after Kyiv is turned into rubble help the remaining fighter fight block by block to hold off the Russians. If the Ukrainian military pulls up artillery guns from south of Kyiv to the city to try to degrade the encircling Russian guns on the city those Russian guns will turn on them along with Russia's airpower and will take these Ukrainian artillery units out in like one hours time once spotted which will happen once they commence firing upon the Russians. But how about if the Ukrainians used back hoes and cranes to dig like three stories deep trenches like twenty-five feet wide and forty yards long. The Ukrainian artillery units could back the artillery gun to the back of the trench to fire a few waves of shells and then roll it to the front of the trench and use the surrounding soil of the trench as a protective barrier against incoming Russian shells and rockets. Well at least maybe the Ukrainian units would have a battlefield life-span longer than thirty minutes!

I don't give a damn what happens over there. It's not my fault.

 

[Soupnazi630]

You have already proved that Texas was stolen from Mexico so it's hardly a worthy point to try back-peddling now. You remind of the Americans who say the US has never lost a war because... wait for it ..... they never "declared war" on Vietnam.

Texas was not stolen fromMexico

No one proved any such thing

 

[miketx]

You have already proved that Texas was stolen from Mexico so it's hardly a worthy point to try back-peddling now. You remind of the Americans who say the US has never lost a war because... wait for it ..... they never "declared war" on Vietnam.

You're full of shit. The greasers gave it up after we kicked their asses for attacking us.

 

[Ringo]

Migrants are protesting on the streets of Paris because of the inability to get asylum with the onset of cold weather.
Damn, how bad it is for them there... Russia should send them weapons!

 

[GLASNOST]

Migrants are protesting on the streets of Paris because of the inability to get asylum with the onset of cold weather.
Damn, how bad it is for them there... Russia should send them weapons!

That is the most beautiful yet funniest comment I have seen in a very long time!

 

[toomuchtime_]

I don't give a damn what happens over there. It's not my fault.

If you are an American, it is your fault. In 1994, the US persuaded Ukraine, to sign the Budapest Memorandum in which Ukraine agreed to turn over to Russia all of Ukraine's nukes, the third largest nuclear weapons arsenal in the world at that time, in exchange for pledges from Russia, UK and US to never violate Ukraine's borders. Had the US not pushed Ukraine into giving up its nukes, Russia would never have dared to invade.

Why would anyone trust the US again, if it doesn't stand behind its actions in persuading Ukraine to give its nukes to Russia?

 

[miketx]

If you are an American, it is your fault. In 1994, the US persuaded Ukraine, to sign the Budapest Memorandum in which Ukraine agreed to turn over to Russia all of Ukraine's nukes, the third largest nuclear weapons arsenal in the world at that time, in exchange for pledges from Russia, UK and US to never violate Ukraine's borders. Had the US not pushed Ukraine into giving up its nukes, Russia would never have dared to invade.

Why would anyone trust the US again, if it doesn't stand behind its actions in persuading Ukraine to give its nukes to Russia?

You're full of shit. Keep blowing Putin.

 

[toomuchtime_]

You're full of shit. Keep blowing Putin.

That makes no sense at all. I argue the US is morally obligated to support Ukraine because of its past actions and you say, keep blowing Putin.

 

[miketx]

That makes no sense at all. I argue the US is morally obligated to support Ukraine because of its past actions and you say, keep blowing Putin.

If you use a sippy cup you may like it more.

 

[GLASNOST]

....... Why would anyone trust the US again, if it doesn't stand behind its actions .....

This is the eternal question. But the answer lies in the tried & true, Mafia-based extortionist's insurance spiel: "Nice place you have here. It would be a shame if something bad should happen to it."

 

[toomuchtime_]

This is the eternal question. But the answer lies in the tried & true, Mafia-based extortionist's insurance spiel: "Nice place you have here. It would be a shame if something bad should happen to it."

But by supporting Ukraine's efforts to get rid of the Russian invaders, the US is standing behind its past actions; that's why the eastern European countries put so much trust in the US.

You must be thinking of Putin when you say, "Nice place you have here. It would be a shame if something bad should happen to it," since that seems to be Putin's whole message to the nations around Russia.

 

[GLASNOST]

But by supporting Ukraine's efforts to get rid of the Russian invaders, the US is standing behind its past actions; that's why the eastern European countries put so much trust in the US.

You must be thinking of Putin when you say, "Nice place you have here. It would be a shame if something bad should happen to it," since that seems to be Putin's whole message to the nations around Russia.

You seem like an honest and conscientious guy yet you have missed all of the road signs along the way.

* The US planted nuclear weapons on Soviet's doorstep but made a big stink when the USSR planned on doing the same in Cuba.

* The USSR was disbanded and the Warsaw Pact dissolved while NATO (completely contrary to Washington's publically stated indications) has expanded and is continuing to expand.

* The US is guilty of an endless string of illegal wars such as Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, etc. etc. etc. and most recently Bosnia, Irak, Libya, and Syria.

* Zelinsky is Washington's stooge just like so many other puppets including the Shah, Saakashvili, Noriega, Batista, Karzai, Deva, Guzzetti, Branco, Pol Pot, Pinochet, Murillo-Bejarano, etc. etc. etc.

But you suppport the US.

 

[miketx]

You seem like an honest and conscientious guy yet you have missed all of the road signs along the way.

* The US planted nuclear weapons on Soviet's doorstep but made a big stink when the USSR planned on doing the same in Cuba.

* The USSR was disbanded and the Warsaw Pact dissolved while NATO (completely contrary to Washington's publically stated indications) has expanded and is continuing to expand.

* The US is guilty of an endless string of illegal wars such as Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, etc. etc. etc. and most recently Bosnia, Irak, Libya, and Syria.

* Zelinsky is Washington's stooge just like so many other puppets including the Shah, Saakashvili, Noriega, Batista, Karzai, Deva, Guzzetti, Branco, Pol Pot, Pinochet, Murillo-Bejarano, etc. etc. etc.

But you suppport the US.

And your media fed ass knows this how? Lmao!

 

[toomuchtime_]

You seem like an honest and conscientious guy yet you have missed all of the road signs along the way.

* The US planted nuclear weapons on Soviet's doorstep but made a big stink when the USSR planned on doing the same in Cuba.

* The USSR was disbanded and the Warsaw Pact dissolved while NATO (completely contrary to Washington's publically stated indications) has expanded and is continuing to expand.

* The US is guilty of an endless string of illegal wars such as Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, etc. etc. etc. and most recently Bosnia, Irak, Libya, and Syria.

* Zelinsky is Washington's stooge just like so many other puppets including the Shah, Saakashvili, Noriega, Batista, Karzai, Deva, Guzzetti, Branco, Pol Pot, Pinochet, Murillo-Bejarano, etc. etc. etc.

But you support the US.

None of this is relevant (and much of it is untrue) to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Russia's foreign policy in eastern Europe consists of one sentence: do what we tell you to do or we will kill you and your family.

 

[GLASNOST]

None of this is relevant (and much of it is untrue) to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Russia's foreign policy in eastern Europe consists of one sentence: do what we tell you to do or we will kill you and your family.

Let me try to make it simple for you to understand. If we are several guys who are going to play poker and you claim "the 8 of spades is wild" then I'm going to play it wild. On the other hand, if once the game is underway and you play the 8 of clubs wild (and no one is holding you accountable for cheating) then I'm going to cheat too. Just try to stop me. Neither I nor Vlado is going to accept double standards. You can bank on that, buddy boy.

 

[Ringo]

Ukrainian Nazis repeatedly struck Kalinin hospital in Donetsk
Kalinin Hospital was attacked again by Ukrainian military formations. This time the Nazis destroyed another building. The patient wounded in the shelling yesterday died. There is no information on the victims today yet.

 

[Ringo]

" since that seems to be Putin's whole message to the nations around Russia.

Do you mean those nations that have entered the aggressive toward Russian military bloc and where the missiles threatening Russia are located?

 

[GLASNOST]

Ukrainian Nazis repeatedly struck Kalinin hospital in Donetsk
Kalinin Hospital was attacked again by Ukrainian military formations. This time the Nazis destroyed another building. The patient wounded in the shelling yesterday died. There is no information on the victims today yet.

And the west not only continues to fund them but is clamouring for more weapons and faster delivery of them!

 

[Ringo]

Just try to stop me. Neither I nor Vlado is going to accept double standards. You can bank on that, buddy boy.

There are idiots. For them, NATO's expansion to the east, the increasing pace and volume of exercises on the russian borders, local conflicts being set on fire around the perimeter of the country, the inclusion of the Russian Federation in the list of the main enemies of the United States, the cultivation of nazism in Ukraine and the creeping genocide of russians, all this just so coincidentally coincided... No one was going to attack anyone!
The russians are surrounded strictly by friends. Yeah.