CDZ How big of a hit for GDP?

[william the wie]

I realize that I left something flapping in the breeze.

productivity is both deflationary and stimulates economic growth. The Cambridge school thought only in terms of high leverage real estate and did not realize that the dustbowl caused bad debt write downs in multiples of GDP far worse than the 2008 meltdown. So Fisher, Knight, Keynes and later Friedman assumed that equity, Fixed income assets and consumer debt worked the same way as real estate. When the drought ended in 1940 so did the great depression.

The economic models of DC are an encyclopedia of mislearned lessons of history.

Agreed! The failed dogma that tax cuts stimulate job growth has been an utter disaster economically. There was more actual economic and job growth after the two largest tax increases in the 1990's. Giving away "free money" to the "job creators" is actually even more of a disincentive for them to invest in the economy than is giving money to the impoverished in order to get them to find a job. When tax rates were higher the "job creators" had to actually create jobs in order to make money. When it was handed to them on a silver platter in the form of tax cuts they just laughed and stuck it in their offshore bank accounts and took a long vacation with zero risk to themselves.

As far as bad debt goes the Wall Street Casino pulled off the largest heist of middle class wealth with the deregulated mortgage scam. We learned that lesson in the 1920's and then we were bamboozled into allowing to happen all over again between 2000-2008. The write downs of that bad debt are going to haunt this nation for a couple of generations to come IMO.

That solution requires a much freer market as in say Denmark than what we have now. In addition to the drag of economic regulation the massive amount of national lands is another huge drag on the economy.

Successful high tax societies have much lower levels of regulation and removal of land from production. The old six nation common market could be lost in the reserved lands of Alaska.

Obviously we disagree at least somewhat on what priority list of reforms are needed.. Tax policy appears to be much less important than economic regulation and land use restrictions.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I realize that I left something flapping in the breeze.

productivity is both deflationary and stimulates economic growth. The Cambridge school thought only in terms of high leverage real estate and did not realize that the dustbowl caused bad debt write downs in multiples of GDP far worse than the 2008 meltdown. So Fisher, Knight, Keynes and later Friedman assumed that equity, Fixed income assets and consumer debt worked the same way as real estate. When the drought ended in 1940 so did the great depression.

The economic models of DC are an encyclopedia of mislearned lessons of history.

Agreed! The failed dogma that tax cuts stimulate job growth has been an utter disaster economically. There was more actual economic and job growth after the two largest tax increases in the 1990's. Giving away "free money" to the "job creators" is actually even more of a disincentive for them to invest in the economy than is giving money to the impoverished in order to get them to find a job. When tax rates were higher the "job creators" had to actually create jobs in order to make money. When it was handed to them on a silver platter in the form of tax cuts they just laughed and stuck it in their offshore bank accounts and took a long vacation with zero risk to themselves.

As far as bad debt goes the Wall Street Casino pulled off the largest heist of middle class wealth with the deregulated mortgage scam. We learned that lesson in the 1920's and then we were bamboozled into allowing to happen all over again between 2000-2008. The write downs of that bad debt are going to haunt this nation for a couple of generations to come IMO.

That solution requires a much freer market as in say Denmark than what we have now. In addition to the drag of economic regulation the massive amount of national lands is another huge drag on the economy.

Successful high tax societies have much lower levels of regulation and removal of land from production. The old six nation common market could be lost in the reserved lands of Alaska.

Obviously we disagree at least somewhat on what priority list of reforms are needed.. Tax policy appears to be much less important than economic regulation and land use restrictions.

Actually we set ourselves up for failure when we try prioritizing because they are interdependent. There is no point in raising taxes if the lack of economic regulations allows for gaming of the system and vice versa. In essence we need to address them holistically and ensure that whatever legislation is enacted will meet the various goals for a more fiscally sound economy and future.

 

[william the wie]

I realize that I left something flapping in the breeze.

productivity is both deflationary and stimulates economic growth. The Cambridge school thought only in terms of high leverage real estate and did not realize that the dustbowl caused bad debt write downs in multiples of GDP far worse than the 2008 meltdown. So Fisher, Knight, Keynes and later Friedman assumed that equity, Fixed income assets and consumer debt worked the same way as real estate. When the drought ended in 1940 so did the great depression.

The economic models of DC are an encyclopedia of mislearned lessons of history.

Agreed! The failed dogma that tax cuts stimulate job growth has been an utter disaster economically. There was more actual economic and job growth after the two largest tax increases in the 1990's. Giving away "free money" to the "job creators" is actually even more of a disincentive for them to invest in the economy than is giving money to the impoverished in order to get them to find a job. When tax rates were higher the "job creators" had to actually create jobs in order to make money. When it was handed to them on a silver platter in the form of tax cuts they just laughed and stuck it in their offshore bank accounts and took a long vacation with zero risk to themselves.

As far as bad debt goes the Wall Street Casino pulled off the largest heist of middle class wealth with the deregulated mortgage scam. We learned that lesson in the 1920's and then we were bamboozled into allowing to happen all over again between 2000-2008. The write downs of that bad debt are going to haunt this nation for a couple of generations to come IMO.

That solution requires a much freer market as in say Denmark than what we have now. In addition to the drag of economic regulation the massive amount of national lands is another huge drag on the economy.

Successful high tax societies have much lower levels of regulation and removal of land from production. The old six nation common market could be lost in the reserved lands of Alaska.

Obviously we disagree at least somewhat on what priority list of reforms are needed.. Tax policy appears to be much less important than economic regulation and land use restrictions.

Actually we set ourselves up for failure when we try prioritizing because they are interdependent. There is no point in raising taxes if the lack of economic regulations allows for gaming of the system and vice versa. In essence we need to address them holistically and ensure that whatever legislation is enacted will meet the various goals for a more fiscally sound economy and future.

EXCESSIVE purely economic regulation is the problem not the solution. Calling the current crony capitalism a free market is a joke.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I realize that I left something flapping in the breeze.

productivity is both deflationary and stimulates economic growth. The Cambridge school thought only in terms of high leverage real estate and did not realize that the dustbowl caused bad debt write downs in multiples of GDP far worse than the 2008 meltdown. So Fisher, Knight, Keynes and later Friedman assumed that equity, Fixed income assets and consumer debt worked the same way as real estate. When the drought ended in 1940 so did the great depression.

The economic models of DC are an encyclopedia of mislearned lessons of history.

Agreed! The failed dogma that tax cuts stimulate job growth has been an utter disaster economically. There was more actual economic and job growth after the two largest tax increases in the 1990's. Giving away "free money" to the "job creators" is actually even more of a disincentive for them to invest in the economy than is giving money to the impoverished in order to get them to find a job. When tax rates were higher the "job creators" had to actually create jobs in order to make money. When it was handed to them on a silver platter in the form of tax cuts they just laughed and stuck it in their offshore bank accounts and took a long vacation with zero risk to themselves.

As far as bad debt goes the Wall Street Casino pulled off the largest heist of middle class wealth with the deregulated mortgage scam. We learned that lesson in the 1920's and then we were bamboozled into allowing to happen all over again between 2000-2008. The write downs of that bad debt are going to haunt this nation for a couple of generations to come IMO.

That solution requires a much freer market as in say Denmark than what we have now. In addition to the drag of economic regulation the massive amount of national lands is another huge drag on the economy.

Successful high tax societies have much lower levels of regulation and removal of land from production. The old six nation common market could be lost in the reserved lands of Alaska.

Obviously we disagree at least somewhat on what priority list of reforms are needed.. Tax policy appears to be much less important than economic regulation and land use restrictions.

Actually we set ourselves up for failure when we try prioritizing because they are interdependent. There is no point in raising taxes if the lack of economic regulations allows for gaming of the system and vice versa. In essence we need to address them holistically and ensure that whatever legislation is enacted will meet the various goals for a more fiscally sound economy and future.

EXCESSIVE purely economic regulation is the problem not the solution. Calling the current crony capitalism a free market is a joke.

And yet this fictional "excessive regulation" has never harmed the economy. Whereas there is ample proof that DEREGULATION has caused a great deal of harm over and over again. The S&L crisis, the Contract on America that gave us Enron, Worldcom, etc, etc, the Glass-Steagal deregulation that almost crashed the entire world's economy in 2008.

The "free market" dogma has been a complete and utter failure for hard working Americans. They have lost their careers, homes, jobs, benefits and retirement savings.

 

[william the wie]

It works for Scandinavia and Singapore. What costs careers, homes, jobs and retirement is regulation and DC writing checks that it can't cover. Housing subsidies, student loans and similar wealth destroyers are made in DC.

 

[Circe]

And yet this fictional "excessive regulation" has never harmed the economy. Whereas there is ample proof that DEREGULATION has caused a great deal of harm over and over again. The S&L crisis, the Contract on America that gave us Enron, Worldcom, etc, etc, the Glass-Steagal deregulation that almost crashed the entire world's economy in 2008.

The "free market" dogma has been a complete and utter failure for hard working Americans. They have lost their careers, homes, jobs, benefits and retirement savings.

It is beginning to look as though you are right. Indeed, the 1929 Crash was also a result of too little regulation. Capitalism ---- or at least bankers!! cannot be trusted not to cheat, and thus ruin the people of the country that depends on them and the money supply they play with.

It's the cheating that is the whole problem, looks like. Banks and investment firms need a WHOLE lot more watching, because basically, they are crooks. Worse, they don't actually know what they are doing, and that leads to blow-ups again and again.

 

[william the wie]

And yet this fictional "excessive regulation" has never harmed the economy. Whereas there is ample proof that DEREGULATION has caused a great deal of harm over and over again. The S&L crisis, the Contract on America that gave us Enron, Worldcom, etc, etc, the Glass-Steagal deregulation that almost crashed the entire world's economy in 2008.

The "free market" dogma has been a complete and utter failure for hard working Americans. They have lost their careers, homes, jobs, benefits and retirement savings.

It is beginning to look as though you are right. Indeed, the 1929 Crash was also a result of too little regulation. Capitalism ---- or at least bankers!! cannot be trusted not to cheat, and thus ruin the people of the country that depends on them and the money supply they play with.

It's the cheating that is the whole problem, looks like. Banks and investment firms need a WHOLE lot more watching, because basically, they are crooks. Worse, they don't actually know what they are doing, and that leads to blow-ups again and again.

They are crooks because they can and do buy the White House and congress.

 

[Derideo_Te]

It works for Scandinavia and Singapore. What costs careers, homes, jobs and retirement is regulation and DC writing checks that it can't cover. Housing subsidies, student loans and similar wealth destroyers are made in DC.

But shipping jobs offshore doesn't?

 

[william the wie]

It works for Scandinavia and Singapore. What costs careers, homes, jobs and retirement is regulation and DC writing checks that it can't cover. Housing subsidies, student loans and similar wealth destroyers are made in DC.

But shipping jobs offshore doesn't?

Jobs that can be shipped overseas would otherwise be automated out of existence here and the robotics and 3-D printing threads can give you chapter and verse on that subject. China and Japan are in the same boat. While Japan is further along that path Chinese PMI and real estate data strongly indicate that China began to collapse last year but it won't be until 2018-2020 that it will be obvious that China is going down hill.

This is not a particularly US problem and in fact the US is doing best among the world's 10 largest economies with India perhaps an exception if Modi can get his agenda going. This is the same creative destruction we posted about earlier in this thread.

To take one obvious example peak oil may be ahead of us due to improved drilling techniques but oil from wells as fuel could be gone by 2020 and will be gone by 2030. that will eliminate the last high pay/low skill job in this country and most of the rest of the world. One way or another those jobs are headed for the exits and quick.

 

[Derideo_Te]

It works for Scandinavia and Singapore. What costs careers, homes, jobs and retirement is regulation and DC writing checks that it can't cover. Housing subsidies, student loans and similar wealth destroyers are made in DC.

But shipping jobs offshore doesn't?

Jobs that can be shipped overseas would otherwise be automated out of existence here and the robotics and 3-D printing threads can give you chapter and verse on that subject. China and Japan are in the same boat. While Japan is further along that path Chinese PMI and real estate data strongly indicate that China began to collapse last year but it won't be until 2018-2020 that it will be obvious that China is going down hill.

This is not a particularly US problem and in fact the US is doing best among the world's 10 largest economies with India perhaps an exception if Modi can get his agenda going. This is the same creative destruction we posted about earlier in this thread.

To take one obvious example peak oil may be ahead of us due to improved drilling techniques but oil from wells as fuel could be gone by 2020 and will be gone by 2030. that will eliminate the last high pay/low skill job in this country and most of the rest of the world. One way or another those jobs are headed for the exits and quick.

Your premise assumes facts not in evidence. You cannot automate accountants and interpreting x-ray scans and software development but all of those jobs have been shipped offshore.

 

[william the wie]

It works for Scandinavia and Singapore. What costs careers, homes, jobs and retirement is regulation and DC writing checks that it can't cover. Housing subsidies, student loans and similar wealth destroyers are made in DC.

But shipping jobs offshore doesn't?

Jobs that can be shipped overseas would otherwise be automated out of existence here and the robotics and 3-D printing threads can give you chapter and verse on that subject. China and Japan are in the same boat. While Japan is further along that path Chinese PMI and real estate data strongly indicate that China began to collapse last year but it won't be until 2018-2020 that it will be obvious that China is going down hill.

This is not a particularly US problem and in fact the US is doing best among the world's 10 largest economies with India perhaps an exception if Modi can get his agenda going. This is the same creative destruction we posted about earlier in this thread.

To take one obvious example peak oil may be ahead of us due to improved drilling techniques but oil from wells as fuel could be gone by 2020 and will be gone by 2030. that will eliminate the last high pay/low skill job in this country and most of the rest of the world. One way or another those jobs are headed for the exits and quick.

Your premise assumes facts not in evidence. You cannot automate accountants and interpreting x-ray scans and software development but all of those jobs have been shipped offshore.

actually you can but outsourcing is cheaper.