Homework assignment for proponents of ID

[Said1]

Trusting a higher power to do what? I think you're missing my point. A thousand years ago people may have thought that child birth was so complex that it could only have some sort of supernatural meaning. They understood how people got pregnant in a simple sense but not in the sense that we know it to be now. If they would have just said "**** it, it's a supernatural event, no sense in investigating it" then we would not know many of the things we know today about child birth.

To do what?? Good grief you are consistent in your supposed misunderstandings of spirituality and religion. Who is saying there is no point in investigating the origins of life, the universe ect?? Having faith in a Higher Power is certainly not an indication of of giving up.

 

[Abbey Normal]

I believe people should know the truth whether they like it or not.

I agree that people should know the truth if at all possible. Your version of the truth, which you practically worship like a god, is just an unproven theory with holes in it. That does not make it "the truth", now, does it? That makes it "a theory".

You constantly criticize others on this board and in your hometown of being ignorant, blind, stupid, etc. Until you are willing to acknowledge that science does not know the "truth" of the origin of life, of of how "nothing" became an immeasurable and incedibly complex "something" called the universe, you are just living in the ignorance of which you so easily accuse others. I find it your inability to admit the above hypocritically ironic.

 

[Powerman]

I agree that people should know the truth if at all possible. Your version of the truth, which you practically worship like a god, is just an unproven theory with holes in it. That does not make it "the truth", now, does it? That makes it "a theory".

You constantly criticize others on this board and in your hometown of being ignorant, blind, stupid, etc. Until you are willing to acknowledge that science does not know the "truth" of the origin of life, of of how "nothing" became an immeasurable and incedibly complex "something" called the universe, you are just living in the ignorance of which you so easily accuse others. I find it your inability to admit the above hypocritically ironic.

I don't worship it as truth but as of right now it's the best explanation we have. Until something better comes along we teach it. Why do people only attack theories that might conflict with Genesis? If you were in search for scientific truth you would be bitching about other theories as well because they have just as many holes in them as evolution.

 

[Gunny]

I don't worship it as truth but as of right now it's the best explanation we have. Until something better comes along we teach it. Why do people only attack theories that might conflict with Genesis? If you were in search for scientific truth you would be bitching about other theories as well because they have just as many holes in them as evolution.

Now why is it we should "open our eyes" to other theories while your mind is closed to all theories but the one you champion?

 

[Powerman]

Now why is it we should "open our eyes" to other theories while your mind is closed to all theories but the one you champion?

My mind isn't closed to other theories. My point is that other theories are taught in school and so should this one. This is the religious section of the message board and it is religious people that want to keep it out of school so therefor I talk about it here. There isn't much point in having a discussion about the theory of gravity on a religious board because it has nothing to do with religion.

 

[Gunny]

My mind isn't closed to other theories. My point is that other theories are taught in school and so should this one. This is the religious section of the message board and it is religious people that want to keep it out of school so therefor I talk about it here. There isn't much point in having a discussion about the theory of gravity on a religious board because it has nothing to do with religion.

There isn't much point in posting thread after thread on the same topic. You don't like the answers in one thread, so you start another and get the same answers.

Just how long CAN you beat a dead horse?

 

[Powerman]

There isn't much point in posting thread after thread on the same topic. You don't like the answers in one thread, so you start another and get the same answers.

Just how long CAN you beat a dead horse?

I never give up the good fight. Although it seems as if I'm not always dealing with the brightest of people. And that's not directed towards anyone personally.

 

[Said1]

I never give up the good fight. Although it seems as if I'm not always dealing with the brightest of people. And that's not directed towards anyone personally.

Hmmm, ok.

I'd suggest starting with the teachings of Don Juan, then progress from there, you and Castaneda seem to be cut from the same cloth. :rotflmao:

 

[Gunny]

I never give up the good fight. Although it seems as if I'm not always dealing with the brightest of people. And that's not directed towards anyone personally.

Well, when you decide to find something good to fight for, let me know.

 

[Powerman]

Well, when you decide to find something good to fight for, let me know.

I'm fighting for common sense.

Let's list some simple facts. These aren't opinions, they are facts.

1. The Theory of Evolution is a scientific theory.
2. Intelligent design and creationism are not scientific theories
3. We need to teach our kids science in schools so that they have a well rounded education


Now let's go to the problem

Fundamentalist christian groups want 1 of 3 things:
1. They want evolution removed from the classroom
2. They want ID to be given the same time in the classroom as evolution
3. They want criticisms of evolution taught of disclaimers about it presented.


These are the problems with the 3 above

In case 1 all you are doing is removing a scientific theory from a classroom. We need more knowledge. Not less.

In case 2 you are trying to interject something that isn't science into a science class. That makes no sense.

In case 3 you are calling for the criticism of only one theory without calling for criticisms for the other theories only because this theory is not consistent with literal biblical translations.


All 3 of these are terribly bad ideas. You owe it to your children to let them make up their own mind when the time comes. And if you agree with any of the 3 above you'll tell them the side that you want them to know anyway. So if you want any of the 3 above you are simply trying to restrict information from our children. This isn't a theocracy the last time I checked. We shouldn't be in the business of propagandizing our children's education.


I'm not right on everything but I'm right on this one.

 

[Gunny]

I'm fighting for common sense.

Let's list some simple facts. These aren't opinions, they are facts.

1. The Theory of Evolution is a scientific theory.
2. Intelligent design and creationism are not scientific theories
3. We need to teach our kids science in schools so that they have a well rounded education


Now let's go to the problem

Fundamentalist christian groups want 1 of 3 things:
1. They want evolution removed from the classroom
2. They want ID to be given the same time in the classroom as evolution
3. They want criticisms of evolution taught of disclaimers about it presented.


These are the problems with the 3 above

In case 1 all you are doing is removing a scientific theory from a classroom. We need more knowledge. Not less.

In case 2 you are trying to interject something that isn't science into a science class. That makes no sense.

In case 3 you are calling for the criticism of only one theory without calling for criticisms for the other theories only because this theory is not consistent with literal biblical translations.


All 3 of these are terribly bad ideas. You owe it to your children to let them make up their own mind when the time comes. And if you agree with any of the 3 above you'll tell them the side that you want them to know anyway. So if you want any of the 3 above you are simply trying to restrict information from our children. This isn't a theocracy the last time I checked. We shouldn't be in the business of propagandizing our children's education.


I'm not right on everything but I'm right on this one.

No you aren't.

Who are YOU to decide my children should be taught something in school that is contradictory to the religion I am trying to teach them?

Now let's rewind to what I have posted more than twice and you have ignored. IF science is going to teach ANY theory of origin, then it should teach ALL theories of origin or none at all.

You are accepting scientific theory as more valid than religious theory just because some egghead validates it. In reality, scientific theory is no more supported by fat/evidence than religious theory.

And if you want to go common sense, then I DEFINITELY think you are wrong. It makes far more sense to me that life was created than out of nothing something just materialized and managed to turn into an intelligent life form. That's about as far-fetched guesswork as you can get.

 

[no1tovote4]

"3. They want criticisms of evolution taught of disclaimers about it presented. "

I think that every theory taught should include the holes and criticisms as well as what kind of testing is being used to collect evidence to support the theory. I am far from being a fundamentalist Christian and am not a Christian at all.

I simply believe that if you do not teach all of the theory including the unanswered questions, holes, pitfalls, paths that have led to no evidentiary gathering, etc. you end up with people that believe that these are truths and not theories and that have a fundamental misunderstanding of the Scientific Method which leads some people believe that ID is a Scientific Theory when it is not and other more notable mistakes.

 

[Powerman]

Who are YOU to decide my children should be taught something in school that is contradictory to the religion I am trying to teach them?

If you don't want them to learn about evolution don't send them to a public school. If you want to tell them about the creation story then do so at home. Seems pretty simple to me. Are you afraid of what might happen if they hear both sides of the story?

Now let's rewind to what I have posted more than twice and you have ignored. IF science is going to teach ANY theory of origin, then it should teach ALL theories of origin or none at all.

As long as you mean all scientific theories of orgin then I'm fine with it. We don't need to be doing bible study in science class. That's absurd. That can be done elsewhere.

You are accepting scientific theory as more valid than religious theory just because some egghead validates it. In reality, scientific theory is no more supported by fat/evidence than religious theory.

This has to be one of the most absurd things I have ever heard in my life. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support religious theories and there is a lot of evidence to support theories on science because they can actually be observed and tested. This is just silly.

And if you want to go common sense, then I DEFINITELY think you are wrong. It makes far more sense to me that life was created than out of nothing something just materialized and managed to turn into an intelligent life form. That's about as far-fetched guesswork as you can get.

Yeah it does sound far fetched. The only problem is there is no one that ever stated that. If you can find me a scientist who said that life materialized out of "nothing" then I'll join you in saying that it's completely ridiculous.

 

[Gunny]

"3. They want criticisms of evolution taught of disclaimers about it presented. "

I think that every theory taught should include the holes and criticisms as well as what kind of testing is being used to collect evidence to support the theory. I am far from being a fundamentalist Christian and am not a Christian at all.

I simply believe that if you do not teach all of the theory including the unanswered questions, holes, pitfalls, paths that have led to no evidentiary gathering, etc. you end up with people that believe that these are truths and not theories and that have a fundamental misunderstanding of the Scientific Method which leads some people believe that ID is a Scientific Theory when it is not and other more notable mistakes.

I agree. I don't see what the problem is with teaching the topic objectively, instead of a one-sided point of view. A little moderation from both sides would probably resolve this issue.

 

[Powerman]

I agree. I don't see what the problem is with teaching the topic objectively, instead of a one-sided point of view. A little moderation from both sides would probably resolve this issue.

I'm fine with it as long as it's every theory and not just theories that piss off bible beaters.

 

[no1tovote4]

I'm fine with it as long as it's every theory and not just theories that piss off bible beaters.

I'm not just fine with it, I think it is irresponsible not to do so in every case. I couldn't care less if it "pisses off bible beaters" (definitely a derogatory term used to devalue people that have Faith) I care that each child that graduates from High School learns what the Scientific Method really is rather than being taught Theories as truth with no real understanding of Method at all.

 

[Gunny]

If you don't want them to learn about evolution don't send them to a public school. If you want to tell them about the creation story then do so at home. Seems pretty simple to me. Are you afraid of what might happen if they hear both sides of the story?

Dude, do you have a mental block? Evolution has NOTHING to do with the origin of life. How many times does it take before that simple fact registers?

I have no problem with evolution and it is not at odds with religion. I simply think that if science is going to teach their mythology concerning the origin of life, it should teach ALL theories of origin, or none at all. Scientific origin theories are as much fantasy/truth as religious ones because they are supported by the same evidence ... none at all.

And as far as public school goes, as long as I pay the school taxes I do, I'll have my say on what the school decides to teach my children.

As long as you mean all scientific theories of orgin then I'm fine with it. We don't need to be doing bible study in science class. That's absurd. That can be done elsewhere.

No, I mean ALL theories of origin. Scientific theories of origin are no more valid than religious ones. You are promoting teaching a one-sided point of view.


This has to be one of the most absurd things I have ever heard in my life. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support religious theories and there is a lot of evidence to support theories on science because they can actually be observed and tested. This is just silly.

YOU are what is absurd and/or silly. There is NO evidence to support ANY scientific theory of origin. None.

Yeah it does sound far fetched. The only problem is there is no one that ever stated that. If you can find me a scientist who said that life materialized out of "nothing" then I'll join you in saying that it's completely ridiculous.

Really? The please post the scientific explanation for the origin of the universe, then the origin of life. And please provide whatever evidence supports these theories.

 

[Powerman]

I'm not just fine with it, I think it is irresponsible not to do so in every case. I couldn't care less if it "pisses off bible beaters" (definitely a derogatory term used to devalue people that have Faith) I care that each child that graduates from High School learns what the Scientific Method really is rather than being taught Theories as truth with no real understanding of Method at all.

I didn't mean to degrade all people of faith. My parents and most of my family are catholics but they are not "bible beaters." Bible beaters are the people that I see on campus every day in free speech alley that are wearing cardboard signs on them that say all Mormons, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, etc. are cult members that are burning in hell. I'm talking about the people that ask you if you have been "saved" and tell you that you will burn in hell for eternity if you don't follow their path which is one of strict literal interpretations of the bible. These people are complete lunatics and we should go about our lives with complete disregard for anything anyone this over zealous has to say about anything. I realize most Christians are nothing like these people but if you are one of these people then you can go **** yourself for all I care because you are no less insane than David Koresh or anyone in his cult was.

 

[no1tovote4]

"but if you are one of these people then you can go **** yourself for all I care because you are no less insane than David Koresh or anyone in his cult was."

LOL. Tell us how you really feel.

If you have read my posts above, you will see that not only am I not one of these people, but I am not even Christian. I simply support people in their Faith, even the nutjobs. I have met people that are just as much nutjobs for Atheism. Those are the ones I call the "Religious Atheists".

 

[Powerman]

"but if you are one of these people then you can go **** yourself for all I care because you are no less insane than David Koresh or anyone in his cult was."

LOL. Tell us how you really feel.

If you have read my posts above, you will see that not only am I not one of these people, but I am not even Christian. I simply support people in their Faith, even the nutjobs. I have met people that are just as much nutjobs for Atheism. Those are the ones I call the "Religious Atheists".

Hah I know. It wasn't directed towards you. I was just responding to your post so you knew I didn't mean all Christians were bible beaters and I just kinda got carried away...