Home v. Work: Child Rearing not Worthy of Time and Talents of Intelligent Humans

[Nienna]

If one wants a little insight at how the different sexes think on this issue, just watch innocent children at play. Lay out a pile of toys and take a bunch of little kids who know nothing of the stereotypes and the different struggles of the real world. Girls will grab Barbie dolls and baby dolls, and they will play games about relationships, child rearing, shopping, and home care. Boys will grab toy guns, soldiers, and construction equipment, and they'll play bulldozer, hunting trip, or some kind of war games. The 'traditional' gender roles are placed there by God and begin to take shape before we even begin to think about hearth and home. Sure, some buck the trend, but it's rare.

You're dead wrong, here, Hobbit. My older son LOVED Barbies, and my older daughter liked to play with matchbox cars. Of course, my son's Barbies usually ended up in naked suicidal skydiving stunts, or the victims of David's residual caveman instincts-- swinging by their hair in circles above Dave's head. And Abbie's cars usually lined up in neat, orderly "families," complete with decorated garages. But what's with the stereotyping?

 

[Said1]

You're dead wrong, here, Hobbit. My older son LOVED Barbies, and my older daughter liked to play with matchbox cars. Of course, my son's Barbies usually ended up in naked suicidal skydiving stunts, or the victims of David's residual caveman instincts-- swinging by their hair in circles above Dave's head. And Abbie's cars usually lined up in neat, orderly "families," complete with decorated garages. But what's with the stereotyping?

I was going to post something to that effect. Even the paleo-fanatics needed a girl to sacrifice or save, depending on his mood I guess. The boys really like playing family too. It's funny with a larger group because they have uncles and cousins and step-siblings.

 

[Joz]

You're dead wrong, here, Hobbit. My older son LOVED Barbies, and my older daughter liked to play with matchbox cars. Of course, my son's Barbies usually ended up in naked suicidal skydiving stunts, or the victims of David's residual caveman instincts-- swinging by their hair in circles above Dave's head. And Abbie's cars usually lined up in neat, orderly "families," complete with decorated garages. But what's with the stereotyping?

First, Mom, I think your subbing is a great idea!

Second, both of my boys played with Barbie. I'm the one that bought her (along with Ken). When I first bought them for my oldest, Daddy had a fit.
When we played house, they were Barbie and I was Ken. When the pretend phone would ring, Ken would say, "You sit and rest, Dear, I'll get the phone." Ken did housework, too.
And they are very manly; nothing effiminate about them. My son is a wonderful husband and dad. Maybe he'd have been anyway, with his personality; but I like to take a little credit. The women his wife works with marvel at his household abilities & treatment of her. I sometimes wonder tho' if she realizes where this difference came from.

I played with cars in a sandbox. Was very upset when my dad made a hammer for my brother. (I told Dad about it after I had kids.) I'm not dainty, I like to work with tools. But I love being a girl, with the makeup, and perfume and manicures and..........

 

[Bullypulpit]

Hey there's a book out:

http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/Books/story?id=2067008&page=1

The wingnuts are not all dead:

Lots and lots more...

When I got married, I planned on it being forever. I chose not to persue a law degree, it seemed a good idea at the time. When I had children, I left a managerial position at the phone company, working on assigning future area codes to MSA's. We didn't require the salary, had set our priorities prior to marriage.

I stayed home for 14 years. I was active in politics, community work, PTA. I was lucky to have quite a circle of friends from childhood, that were also stay-at-home moms. I also had many friends that were in law, medicine, and education that chose day care for their kids. Now all of our children are raised, at least to being out of high school. Some are married with children of their own. Not one of the mom's that stayed home, all were college grads some with advanced professional degrees, regreted their choice. They acknowledge they would have gone further career-wise if they'd chosen differently.

My friends that opted day care, well 2 out of 5 have lingering problems with their adult children. They blame the schools/day care, not their choices. I empathize, but wonder about those weekend shopping trips the parents made, leaving the kids at home with a babysitter, cause it's 'hard' to get errands done with kids. I do remember at the time wondering how they could take 'couple vacations' leaving the kids with sitter or grandparents, when they had so little time with the kids to begin with?

I didn't feel 'neglectful' when I did volunteer activities or went out on a 'date' with my husband, as I spent hundreds of hours playing games, kissing boo boos, at the park, at their schools, and reading to them. Oh yeah, there were the hours of mind numbing 'nothingness' when they were squabbling, but even those hours were used to teach them problem solving.

Now the 3 out of 5 that maintain good relations with their adult children, they put a high priority on spending their after work hours, vacations, and weekends with their kids. One of them went part-time during the kids high school years, wanting to be able to keep and eye on them.

I think both working and stay at home moms can have good relations with their kids, but my guess is that a successful working mom has much less alone time, but does escape much of the 'angst' of hours of 'lack of adult' hours.

If I had my druthers, I like to see either the mother or father be able to remain at home as a full-time parent. But reality intrudes. For most people, it is simply not possible for one parent to stay at home full-time and have the family keep its financial head above water. And with even mediocre childcare costing as much as it would for a parent to go to college full time, it doesn't get any easier for families where both parents work full-time, unless they have family or friends who are willing and able to watch the children during their work hours.

 

[Hobbit]

If I had my druthers, I like to see either the mother or father be able to remain at home as a full-time parent. But reality intrudes. For most people, it is simply not possible for one parent to stay at home full-time and have the family keep its financial head above water. And with even mediocre childcare costing as much as it would for a parent to go to college full time, it doesn't get any easier for families where both parents work full-time, unless they have family or friends who are willing and able to watch the children during their work hours.

It's more than possible if the family is willing to accept a lower standard of living. If the wife cooks instead of everybody going out all the time, they're willing to live in a smaller house, settle for one TV and one computer, and give up on a few of the finer luxury items available. You'd be surprised how many thousand dollars worth of stuff the average person can do without but doesn't.

 

[1549]

I think families can work in any scenario if everyone has the right mindset. My mom worked long stressful hours in retail, if things were busy at the office she stayed until 8 or sometimes 9 at night.

My dad was a painter so he was home by five and cooked dinner for my brother and I or take us to our baseball games or whatever. My mom would reheat the left overs when she returned from work.

This may not sound like an ideal set up, but it worked. I would spend time with my dad early in the eveing, and then spend time with my mom whenever she got home. We set up little routines, every thursday night, I would go out for a soda and candy bar with my mom. Every saturday morning, my mom and I, and sometimes my brother, would go to McDonalds for breakfast.

We also made sure to do things as a family every weekend, since weekdays were hecktick. For example, we would make sure that we ate dinner as a family on sundays. We watched the same tv shows as a family on sunday nights. Sometimes we would all see a movie on saturday nights.

If I was able to go back and change things, I wouldn't...I think we all made the best of it.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

Staying-at-home tends to wear-down Men. Men are Hunters by nature...and NEED to have a 'providing' purpose.

No, men are just incompetent at hands on child-rearing.

Women can multi-task, it is the norm for them.


Women would not have to work if they didn't want to, but men are not that great at "providing" either.

 

[Turboswede]

This was one of the big reasons I went to law school. I saw what life was like for my mother, and I was determined that I was never going to live that way.

Funny, that’s the main reason I went to Law School too. I grew up as a latch key kid of a single “power mom” and swore that my kids would never need to go through that growing up. My wife put me through school and in exchange she can focus on being there for the kids while I am away.

I know I am going to get flamed by this, but does the fear of dependency have anything to do with poor relationships with men?

One thing that I absolutely hate is when I say my wife stays at home and is a full time mom I get looks of scorn from most of the female attorneys in my office, as if I forced her to give up a career and have her chained to the sofa 24 hours per day. I never seem to get that look from the paralegals though, funny.

 

[jillian]

Funny, that’s the main reason I went to Law School too. I grew up as a latch key kid of a single “power mom” and swore that my kids would never need to go through that growing up. My wife put me through school and in exchange she can focus on being there for the kids while I am away.

I know I am going to get flamed by this, but does the fear of dependency have anything to do with poor relationships with men?

One thing that I absolutely hate is when I say my wife stays at home and is a full time mom I get looks of scorn from most of the female attorneys in my office, as if I forced her to give up a career and have her chained to the sofa 24 hours per day. I never seem to get that look from the paralegals though, funny.

Interesting. My father made my mother go back to work when we were old enough because he didn't want her falling apart and being dependent on anyone else if something happened to him. He made her learn to drive for the same reason. My mom still says it was the best thing he ever did for her.

Having done my fair share of matrimonials, the one thing I never wanted for myself was to have to beg someone else for crumbs if my marriage ended. I like knowing that I could do just fine if I had to. I have no issues with women who take off some time for the kids. I would have if I could have (I wouldn't have had a practice to go back to had I stopped work).... But the problem is that too many women can't get back into the workforce when the kids get old enough. And, frankly, once the kids are older, there's no reason to stay home. Just my opinion.

BTW, the person you answered posted that about two years ago and no longer posts here.

 

[xsited1]

Linda Hirshman is on Bernard Goldberg's list of 100 People Who Are Screwing Up America.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/100-People-Screwing-America-Franken/dp/0060761288"]100 People Who Are Screwing Up America[/ame]

 

[dilloduck]

Linda Hirshman is on Bernard Goldberg's list of 100 People Who Are Screwing Up America.

100 People Who Are Screwing Up America

Apparently the 'Contessa' was in one of her 'men suck' moods and went searching.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Funny, that’s the main reason I went to Law School too. I grew up as a latch key kid of a single “power mom” and swore that my kids would never need to go through that growing up. My wife put me through school and in exchange she can focus on being there for the kids while I am away.

I know I am going to get flamed by this, but does the fear of dependency have anything to do with poor relationships with men?

One thing that I absolutely hate is when I say my wife stays at home and is a full time mom I get looks of scorn from most of the female attorneys in my office, as if I forced her to give up a career and have her chained to the sofa 24 hours per day. I never seem to get that look from the paralegals though, funny.

Actually, I applaud you and your wife for making that decision. I grew up thinking, I was going to be career mom, but after my first child was born, I couldn't contemplate going back to work.

Some moms say they need to work for their mental sanity. One mom said when she stayed home after giving birth, she got so depressed that she had to go to work as soon as possible. A lot moms I spoke to said they needed to be around adults.

What I don't like is the way people assume that I am less educated or less intelligent because I am a SAHM. I guess most people don't assume that a mother has an Ivy League education if she stays at home and raises kids...It's a choice though. I feel empowered to make that choice in the same way other moms choose to go to work.

I also don't like the arguments between SAHM's and working moms. Everyone has their own priorities... If it works for your family, fine.

 

[sanlagain]

Personally, I choose not to work. I want to stay home and watch soaps. Too bad for me that I don't have a money tree and thus work is necessary.

 

[dilloduck]

Actually, I applaud you and your wife for making that decision. I grew up thinking, I was going to be career mom, but after my first child was born, I couldn't contemplate going back to work.

Some moms say they need to work for their mental sanity. One mom said when she stayed home after giving birth, she got so depressed that she had to go to work as soon as possible. A lot moms I spoke to said they needed to be around adults.

What I don't like is the way people assume that I am less educated or less intelligent because I am a SAHM. I guess most people don't assume that a mother has an Ivy League education if she stays at home and raises kids...It's a choice though. I feel empowered to make that choice in the same way other moms choose to go to work.

I also don't like the arguments between SAHM's and working moms. Everyone has their own priorities... If it works for your family, fine.

You can probably understand the look that SAHD's get too then.

 

[jillian]

Linda Hirshman is on Bernard Goldberg's list of 100 People Who Are Screwing Up America.

100 People Who Are Screwing Up America

and what place is Annie Coultergeist? You know...the woman who said a presidential candidate should be killed in a terrorist attack because she disagrees with his politics.

 

[Turboswede]

What I don't like is the way people assume that I am less educated or less intelligent because I am a SAHM. I guess most people don't assume that a mother has an Ivy League education if she stays at home and raises kids...It's a choice though. I feel empowered to make that choice in the same way other moms choose to go to work.

I also don't like the arguments between SAHM's and working moms. Everyone has their own priorities... If it works for your family, fine.

That’s exactly my point, I don’t understand why my wife is looked down on by my co-workers because she is making the choice to be a SAHM. I am sure we could afford a bigger house and nicer cars if she went back to work, they just don’t seem to understand that its’ worth more to her to raise our kids than the difference between a Honda and an Acura in the driveway.

 

[PoliticalChic]

That’s exactly my point, I don’t understand why my wife is looked down on by my co-workers because she is making the choice to be a SAHM. I am sure we could afford a bigger house and nicer cars if she went back to work, they just don’t seem to understand that its’ worth more to her to raise our kids than the difference between a Honda and an Acura in the driveway.

For some reason, we have been raised to believe in our modern society that a women's worth is related to her career/ job title. I felt an emotional need to stay home with the kids, but it did take a while for the cerebrum to accept that this was a logical choice for me and I wasn't less of a woman for making this choice.

I'm sure your wife could double your family's income, but there's something nice about mommy or daddy being there and available all the time.

 

[PoliticalChic]

You can probably understand the look that SAHD's get too then.

It takes a lot of courage for a dad to stay home. Hooray for SAHD's!

 

[xsited1]

and what place is Annie Coultergeist? You know...the woman who said a presidential candidate should be killed in a terrorist attack because she disagrees with his politics.

LOL! Ann Coulter? I thought she was supporting Hillary. I doubt many people pay much attention to her.

 

[chloe]

My sister has 4 kids and stayed home the entire time and sometimes people would say "oh so you just stay at home you don't work?" and she would get her feelings hurt over it, it made her feel like what she did was worthless to most people.

I was lucky enough to stay home with my kids until my youngest was 4, then my marriage dissolved and I had to work. I am still glad I got to stay home with them for the time that I did. I do think however, instead of devoting my life to my husband and kids I should have been in college working toward my career. Now it is twice as hard working & going to school and raising kids alone.