hmm seems my ideas of no-real-skills=no work are coming to bear

[blu]

We can laugh, but there are tens of thousands of poor kids out there that believe they'll actually be employable after they get their degrees in "Women's Studies," or "Black History" or "Underwater Basket Weaving."

Funniest thing about it is they are starting to sue the colleges.

College Grad Can't Find Job, Wants $$$ Back | NBC New York

How many suits like this do you think it will take before colleges stop offering Liberal Arts?

hopefully just 1 lawsuit scares schools across the country and liberal arts becomes extinct. such a waste of everyones time

 

[blu]

Funniest thing about it is they are starting to sue the colleges.

College Grad Can't Find Job, Wants $$$ Back | NBC New York

How many suits like this do you think it will take before colleges stop offering Liberal Arts?

Yeah, this is the second article like this I've run across: And the common denominator is you gotta dig to find simple information, e.g. What was the SUBJECT of the degree the student of "information technology" received. The article never really says. I guess we're to assume that it has something to do with business? information? technology? Who knows?.....but it SOUNDS good, doesn't it?

I think this directly adresses the OP when we speak of:

HIGHLY SKILLED>>>SKILLED>>>>Educated

As the sought after employees of the future.

Education makes a difference, but it is not going to be the factor that lands the jobs that really make a difference, especially if Obama gets his way and starts sending everyone to college. How much is a college degree going to be worth when everyone at McDonald's has one?

the number of degrees in general won't matter. it will matter in specific fields, people who work at mcdonalds aren't going to walk in and leave with an engineering degree a few years later, but liberal arts, business, etc. sure thing, and that will just flood those already overcrowded fields

 

[chanel]

And in other news:

Overeating and lack of exercise can make you fat.

Learning a trade should be an option for every student in this country. College is not for everyone and can be a huge waste of money for many. However, I don't see that happening in public education. Every student in our school (including those who are borderline MR) will now have a college prep curriculum. We are preparing half these kids for nothing. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a rash of lawsuits against public schools in the near future. Kids with diplomas that say they passed Physics, but can't even read at the 6th grade level.

 

[Samson]

And in other news:

Overeating and lack of exercise can make you fat.

Learning a trade should be an option for every student in this country. College is not for everyone and can be a huge waste of money for many. However, I don't see that happening in public education. Every student in our school (including those who are borderline MR) will now have a college prep curriculum. We are preparing half these kids for nothing. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a rash of lawsuits against public schools in the near future. Kids with diplomas that say they passed Physics, but can't even read at the 6th grade level.

This is precisely the case.

Public High Schools have incresaed the graduation requirements to include additional credits in Math, Science, Languages.

HOWEVER: They are responding to PUBLIC pressure.

The Public has not demanded that High Schools offer more classes in Technological Services, commonly known as "Shop:" Metalworking, carpentry, plumbing, electrical work, automotive repair.

Why?

Because all parents believe that Muffy and Biff will meet their caste-mates in a good college and raise their 2.5 grandchildren inside a white picketed fenced suburb.

 

[Flopper]

We can laugh, but there are tens of thousands of poor kids out there that believe they'll actually be employable after they get their degrees in "Women's Studies," or "Black History" or "Underwater Basket Weaving."

Funniest thing about it is they are starting to sue the colleges.

College Grad Can't Find Job, Wants $$$ Back | NBC New York

How many suits like this do you think it will take before colleges stop offering Liberal Arts?

A liberal art's education is not going to get you job. It's a foundation to build on. A good liberal arts education followed by job specific education will take you further in life than highly specialized education. Much education is so specialized that you learning everything about almost nothing.

The key to success in today's workplace is flexibility. You might be hired to design widgets, but you'll soon find yourself communicating with clients and management with varied cultural backgrounds, advising management on best way to market the product, hiring employees, and managing projects. I have a technical degree and have worked in design and manufacturing. I have used very little of my technical education, but I have had to entertain customers from other countries, deal with psychotic bosses, prepare project plans, and make numerous presentations both technical and not-technical. My degree got me the job, but it's my background and general education that has allowed me to keep my job and move up.

 

[California Girl]

Future hiring will mainly benefit the high-skilled - Yahoo! News

Whenever companies start hiring freely again, job-seekers with specialized skills and education will have plenty of good opportunities. Others will face a choice: Take a job with low pay — or none at all.

its time to start enrolling in college people! and don't waste time on liberal arts or business BS....

Your idea?

Apparently blu is the new truthmatters. Is there room for two such mighty intellects on one board?

 

[Samson]

We can laugh, but there are tens of thousands of poor kids out there that believe they'll actually be employable after they get their degrees in "Women's Studies," or "Black History" or "Underwater Basket Weaving."

Funniest thing about it is they are starting to sue the colleges.

College Grad Can't Find Job, Wants $$$ Back | NBC New York

How many suits like this do you think it will take before colleges stop offering Liberal Arts?

A liberal art's education is not going to get you job. It's a foundation to build on. ....

I have used very little of my technical education, but I have had to entertain customers from other countries, deal with psychotic bosses, prepare project plans, and make numerous presentations both technical and not-technical. My degree got me the job, but it's my background and general education that has allowed me to keep my job and move up.

Flopper, can we at least agree that BOLDFACING your entire post doesn't emphasise the importance of the entire post?

Anyway, you contradict yourself a little: First, as a "Foundation" you allude to a priority of liberal arts education over your "technical education."

But then you admit the degree got you a job, and that a BA "isn't going to get you a job."

I think I'd agree with this: The FOUNDATION of education is the technical degree, and the accoutrement is liberal arts classes, but not necessarily a degree. I think it would be great to be able to tell a potential employer, I have my BS in Engineering, but I minored in "Asian Women Studies."

 

[Quantum Windbag]

We can laugh, but there are tens of thousands of poor kids out there that believe they'll actually be employable after they get their degrees in "Women's Studies," or "Black History" or "Underwater Basket Weaving."

Funniest thing about it is they are starting to sue the colleges.

College Grad Can't Find Job, Wants $$$ Back | NBC New York

How many suits like this do you think it will take before colleges stop offering Liberal Arts?

A liberal art's education is not going to get you job. It's a foundation to build on. A good liberal arts education followed by job specific education will take you further in life than highly specialized education. Much education is so specialized that you learning everything about almost nothing.

The key to success in today's workplace is flexibility. You might be hired to design widgets, but you'll soon find yourself communicating with clients and management with varied cultural backgrounds, advising management on best way to market the product, hiring employees, and managing projects. I have a technical degree and have worked in design and manufacturing. I have used very little of my technical education, but I have had to entertain customers from other countries, deal with psychotic bosses, prepare project plans, and make numerous presentations both technical and not-technical. My degree got me the job, but it's my background and general education that has allowed me to keep my job and move up.

Math education is specialized?

Social skills are not taught in college. They may, or may not, be picked up there, but they are not taught there. I will admit liberal arts students are more likely to have social skills, mostly because math tends to attract more serious students, but the socially incompetent geek is the rarity, especially in this day and age.

 

[Samson]

Funniest thing about it is they are starting to sue the colleges.

College Grad Can't Find Job, Wants $$$ Back | NBC New York

How many suits like this do you think it will take before colleges stop offering Liberal Arts?

A liberal art's education is not going to get you job. It's a foundation to build on. A good liberal arts education followed by job specific education will take you further in life than highly specialized education. Much education is so specialized that you learning everything about almost nothing.

The key to success in today's workplace is flexibility. You might be hired to design widgets, but you'll soon find yourself communicating with clients and management with varied cultural backgrounds, advising management on best way to market the product, hiring employees, and managing projects. I have a technical degree and have worked in design and manufacturing. I have used very little of my technical education, but I have had to entertain customers from other countries, deal with psychotic bosses, prepare project plans, and make numerous presentations both technical and not-technical. My degree got me the job, but it's my background and general education that has allowed me to keep my job and move up.

Math education is specialized?

Social skills are not taught in college. They may, or may not, be picked up there, but they are not taught there. I will admit liberal arts students are more likely to have social skills, mostly because math tends to attract more serious students, but the socially incompetent geek is the rarity, especially in this day and age.

True: if you have to PAY someone to socialize you enough to keep your job, then you're probably hopeless.

 

[Flopper]

Funniest thing about it is they are starting to sue the colleges.

College Grad Can't Find Job, Wants $$$ Back | NBC New York

How many suits like this do you think it will take before colleges stop offering Liberal Arts?

A liberal art's education is not going to get you job. It's a foundation to build on. ....

I have used very little of my technical education, but I have had to entertain customers from other countries, deal with psychotic bosses, prepare project plans, and make numerous presentations both technical and not-technical. My degree got me the job, but it's my background and general education that has allowed me to keep my job and move up.

Flopper, can we at least agree that BOLDFACING your entire post doesn't emphasise the importance of the entire post?

Anyway, you contradict yourself a little: First, as a "Foundation" you allude to a priority of liberal arts education over your "technical education."

But then you admit the degree got you a job, and that a BA "isn't going to get you a job."

I think I'd agree with this: The FOUNDATION of education is the technical degree, and the accoutrement is liberal arts classes, but not necessarily a degree. I think it would be great to be able to tell a potential employer, I have my BS in Engineering, but I minored in "Asian Women Studies."

Yes, in my case the foundation was my engineering degree. I never got a liberal arts degree, however I've taken a number on non-technical courses that have really helped me. If I had it to do it over again, I would not have got a technical degree immediately. I would have taken courses in literature, philosophy, English composition, a couple of foreign languages, economics, psychology, and business. In other word, a well rounded course of study. Then I would have worked for a few years until I had a good idea what I really wanted to do or at least what I didn't want to do. Then I would have gone back to school and got a job specific degree. I think I would have gone further if I had taken this route, but that's just me.

BTW I like bolding because it differentiates replies and makes them easier to find and read. I would like to see all replies alternate between bold and non-bold. I don't like changing fonts and colors because it makes posts hard to read. All the pictures and and quotes are distracting. Ok, so I won't bold, at least not for now.

 

[rdean]

If Republicans had made a single improvement during all the years they held all three branches of government, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Why do they have answers now, when they didn't before?

Start with their failures and we can start figuring out some solutions. To figure out what will work you have to start with what "didn't".

 

[Flopper]

A liberal art's education is not going to get you job. It's a foundation to build on. A good liberal arts education followed by job specific education will take you further in life than highly specialized education. Much education is so specialized that you learning everything about almost nothing.

The key to success in today's workplace is flexibility. You might be hired to design widgets, but you'll soon find yourself communicating with clients and management with varied cultural backgrounds, advising management on best way to market the product, hiring employees, and managing projects. I have a technical degree and have worked in design and manufacturing. I have used very little of my technical education, but I have had to entertain customers from other countries, deal with psychotic bosses, prepare project plans, and make numerous presentations both technical and not-technical. My degree got me the job, but it's my background and general education that has allowed me to keep my job and move up.

Math education is specialized?

Social skills are not taught in college. They may, or may not, be picked up there, but they are not taught there. I will admit liberal arts students are more likely to have social skills, mostly because math tends to attract more serious students, but the socially incompetent geek is the rarity, especially in this day and age.

True: if you have to PAY someone to socialize you enough to keep your job, then you're probably hopeless.

I'm not talking about social skills. I'm talking about communications skills so you can express your ideas coherently in writing or verbally. These are skills you learn. You aren't born with them. To be able to meet with people in marketing, advertising, accounting, and information technology and communicate with them on their terms is of tremendous value. Knowing how to interact with people of different cultures is very important. Actions and comments made to the good old boy in IT, may be very offensive to the Saudi engineer, or your Japanese customer. These are things you aren't going to learn in your statistics, cost accounting or Thermodynamics class.

 

[midcan5]

well, frankly every down turn we hear same. I heard it back in the late 70's heard it in the back end 90s', again in 02-5.....

old Jewish grandmothers cliche; "get a job inside"...

And the fifties, after the Russians launched sputnik and America went bonkers. There is a Russian quote from that time, "You Americans have a better standard of living than we do. But the American loves his car, his refrigerator, his house. He does not, as we Russians do, love his country.(1)" That still fits but add money, lots of it, to update quote. Possibly the Russians love money too today. But as a liberal arts major who has gone very far up the food chain in an advanced technical field: specialized degrees can make a difference and cannot make a difference. How profound is that advice! My advice pick a field of work that can't be outsourced or badly downsized. Also pick a time when developments are good for the field you chose. Oh, I know more profound advice.

People here forget the eighties and the downsizing of all jobs from top to bottom. When Reagan gave the corporations the keys, they drove off into the sunset, leaving workers stranded. Several books were written then, I wish I could remember the titles.

But back to advice, knowing lots of rich people take my advice, first tip: marry money, next, marry good business money, next, make friends with money.... Darn, I have to stop, I'll losing my serious side on Labor day of all days. Buy American, support your fellow struggling, aspiring, nose to the grindstone, hopes to be rich one day, poor person. Or marry money. LOL

(1) Leonid I. Sedov

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I'm not talking about social skills. I'm talking about communications skills so you can express your ideas coherently in writing or verbally. These are skills you learn. You aren't born with them. To be able to meet with people in marketing, advertising, accounting, and information technology and communicate with them on their terms is of tremendous value. Knowing how to interact with people of different cultures is very important. Actions and comments made to the good old boy in IT, may be very offensive to the Saudi engineer, or your Japanese customer. These are things you aren't going to learn in your statistics, cost accounting or Thermodynamics class.

You are not going to learn that in History, English Lit., or Art Appreciation either.

No class in existence can turn a bad writer into a good one. Some of the worst moments of my life have involved reading bad writers who think that writing is something anyone can do. I honestly believe that the ability to communicate is something one is either born with, or you are not. One can learn to refine it, and someone who is raw and untrained can be polished, but the ability has to be there.

On the other hand, just because someone is not formally trained, it does not mean they cannot tell a story and communicate well.

 

[Flopper]

I'm not talking about social skills. I'm talking about communications skills so you can express your ideas coherently in writing or verbally. These are skills you learn. You aren't born with them. To be able to meet with people in marketing, advertising, accounting, and information technology and communicate with them on their terms is of tremendous value. Knowing how to interact with people of different cultures is very important. Actions and comments made to the good old boy in IT, may be very offensive to the Saudi engineer, or your Japanese customer. These are things you aren't going to learn in your statistics, cost accounting or Thermodynamics class.

You are not going to learn that in History, English Lit., or Art Appreciation either.

No class in existence can turn a bad writer into a good one. Some of the worst moments of my life have involved reading bad writers who think that writing is something anyone can do. I honestly believe that the ability to communicate is something one is either born with, or you are not. One can learn to refine it, and someone who is raw and untrained can be polished, but the ability has to be there.

On the other hand, just because someone is not formally trained, it does not mean they cannot tell a story and communicate well.

I disagree. Good communications skills are learned. When I went to college, my writing skills were so bad, I had to take remedial English which I hated. I was able to get an Engineering degree without ever taking another English class. On my first job, I had to do a weekly report and reports to clients. My boss told me either I learn to write are else. I took a class in technical writing then English composition. I worked on improving my writing and over a number of years it got a lot better. I'll never write the great American novel, but I think I can express my ideas pretty well. Instead of wasting my time taking courses in advanced calculus and number theory in college, I should have been learning how to communicate with people. No matter what job you have communications is a key to success and it is a skill that you learn.

 

[rdean]

Math education is specialized?

Social skills are not taught in college. They may, or may not, be picked up there, but they are not taught there. I will admit liberal arts students are more likely to have social skills, mostly because math tends to attract more serious students, but the socially incompetent geek is the rarity, especially in this day and age.

True: if you have to PAY someone to socialize you enough to keep your job, then you're probably hopeless.

I'm not talking about social skills. I'm talking about communications skills so you can express your ideas coherently in writing or verbally. These are skills you learn. You aren't born with them. To be able to meet with people in marketing, advertising, accounting, and information technology and communicate with them on their terms is of tremendous value. Knowing how to interact with people of different cultures is very important. Actions and comments made to the good old boy in IT, may be very offensive to the Saudi engineer, or your Japanese customer. These are things you aren't going to learn in your statistics, cost accounting or Thermodynamics class.

You think engineers are "stupid"?

If someone can earn an engineering degree, it's simple for them to learn to talk "civil". The ones that don't, probably don't need to.

 

[Charles_Main]

Future hiring will mainly benefit the high-skilled - Yahoo! News

Whenever companies start hiring freely again, job-seekers with specialized skills and education will have plenty of good opportunities. Others will face a choice: Take a job with low pay — or none at all.

its time to start enrolling in college people! and don't waste time on liberal arts or business BS....

Your idea?

LOL dude it is not your idea it is common sense.

Jesus self diluted much?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I disagree. Good communications skills are learned. When I went to college, my writing skills were so bad, I had to take remedial English which I hated. I was able to get an Engineering degree without ever taking another English class. On my first job, I had to do a weekly report and reports to clients. My boss told me either I learn to write are else. I took a class in technical writing then English composition. I worked on improving my writing and over a number of years it got a lot better. I'll never write the great American novel, but I think I can express my ideas pretty well. Instead of wasting my time taking courses in advanced calculus and number theory in college, I should have been learning how to communicate with people. No matter what job you have communications is a key to success and it is a skill that you learn.

Ever tried painting? Almost anyone can learn the techniques, but only a few can do anything with the knowledge, and even fewer can master it.

Writing is the same, you can teach someone the fundamentals, but unless the ability is there they cannot learn how to do something that is beyond their natural ability.

Judging from you writing here, you have learned to express your ideas in a way that is comprehensible. You also avoid the obvious traps of someone who is incapable of writing at all. That indicates to me that the ability was there within you all along.

Do you know anyone who, like yourself, needed to learn how to do this, and failed? Was it because that person did not try to learn, or was it because they were simply unable?

My experience with engineering is a bit limited, but I bet you do not think that just anyone can be an engineer. I am sure you know some people that are so hopeless at math that you would not trust them to make change for you at a McDonald's. Some people are absolutely incapable of handling math, and some people are absolutely incapable of handling writing.

My experience has taught me that most people who can handle math can master English well enough to do technical writing. One thing I like to point out to those who have trouble grasping why that is true is that math is actually a language, and it is one that can be almost as complex as English. You might not be able to write the great American novel, but you can think well enough to master the fundamentals of writing.

I agree that college should be more balanced, and that they were remiss in not requiring you to get more English while you had a chance, but do not think that you do not have a talent simply because you did not exercise it until later in life.

 

[blu]

Future hiring will mainly benefit the high-skilled - Yahoo! News

Whenever companies start hiring freely again, job-seekers with specialized skills and education will have plenty of good opportunities. Others will face a choice: Take a job with low pay — or none at all.

its time to start enrolling in college people! and don't waste time on liberal arts or business BS....

Your idea?

Apparently blu is the new truthmatters. Is there room for two such mighty intellects on one board?

yes, dumbass, my idea, that I have posted about many times on the board

 

[blu]

I disagree. Good communications skills are learned. When I went to college, my writing skills were so bad, I had to take remedial English which I hated. I was able to get an Engineering degree without ever taking another English class. On my first job, I had to do a weekly report and reports to clients. My boss told me either I learn to write are else. I took a class in technical writing then English composition. I worked on improving my writing and over a number of years it got a lot better. I'll never write the great American novel, but I think I can express my ideas pretty well. Instead of wasting my time taking courses in advanced calculus and number theory in college, I should have been learning how to communicate with people. No matter what job you have communications is a key to success and it is a skill that you learn.

we had to take two writing classes + technical writing in the comp sci program I was in specifically for the issue you encountered on your first job. I was lucky to get a paid internship two summers in a row at a large computer sec company in college and learned a lot of technical writing there as well when I did reports. Now when I write technical or research papers or proposals its trivial