‘Historic Palestine’ – A Misleading Anachronism

[Sixties Fan]

Its become very fashionable to blame the Mufti for what Hitler did... Bibi Netanyahu has basically white washed Hitler to blame the Mufti.. which is utterly ridiculous. The population of Palestine had already doubled with European Jews.

The Transfer Agreement was in place before 1933.

Don't you remember that Samuel Untermyer declared war on all things German in the spring of 1933 from the safety of Madison Square Garden?

The Transfer Agreement - Wikipedia

The Transfer Agreement - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Transfer Agreement: The Dramatic Story of the Pact Between the Third Reich and Jewish Palestine is a book written by author Edwin Black, documenting the transfer agreement ("Haavara Agreement" in Hebrew) between Zionist organizations and Nazi Germany to transfer a number of Jews and their assets to Palestine. Shortly after Samuel Untermyer's return to the U.S. from Germany in 1933, articles appeared on the front page of newspapers in London and New York declaring that "Judea declares war on Germany"…

The Grand Mufti is only responsible for what the Grand Mufti thought, planned and did. And whose help he sought to put his plan in place.

The Transfer Agreement has nothing to do with the riots against Jews caused by the Mufti in 1920, 1921, 1929 and from 1936 to 1939. Or his role in the riots sparked against Jews in Iraq in 1941.

The Transfer Agreement was to save lives of Jews to be able to bring them to Palestine, instead of what happened to all the other Jews who stayed in Europe, and we do know how many lost their lives.

With the stroke of a keyboard, you continuously "whitewash", to use your word, all that has happened, who did what to whom and why.

Is this because you have no understanding at all of what happened back then, or is it because anything that attacks the Jewish people must be true to you.
So far, the latter continues to be the truth.

To you, all European Jews are Indigenous of Europe therefore they had no right to come to "Palestine", before or after the Mandate, and "take" the land from the "native" Arab Palestinians, both words making the biggest oxymoron term I have ever seen.

If I have not said this before, let me say it now:

You do NOT give a darn about ONE Jewish life, because you have been taught to NOT give a damn about Jewish lives.

Read what you type, what comes out of your mind, your knowledge of things.

Christian Europe turns against Jews. That is ok with you.

Islam turns against Jews, that is ok with you, too.


There is a pattern here, as there is with many of the other posters who have been taught that Jewish life does not matter and Jews are bad.

How many of you may have read the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" ? Hitler and the Mufti read them and lived by them. THAT, on top of what they had learned from the NT and the Koran.

One and one makes two.

Hate Jews + Hate Jews = MORE hatred of Jews


Don't worry, no logic will ever reach your mind and make you question what you have been taught, by the NT, by the Koran and by the Arabs you lived amongst who may not have cared for Jews anymore than you.

Ignorance is ignorance, and you can repeat things which may sound bad against the Jews as they were trying to save lives.

As I posted above, had those lives been of Arabs, or Christians, or Muslims, you would have welcomed all the help from the Nazis, Mussolini, or anyone else, as long as it was to save lives.

Doing business with Nazis to save lives of Jews = always turns the Jews into Nazis

Doing business with Nazis as Muslims, in order to kill Jews = turns what happened and what those Muslims did as something which never happened.


NO ONE has the right to destroy Jewish History, no matter how much they HATE Jews.

And that history will never be destroyed.

 

[rylah]

Is there a better admission to the OP
than the pathetic attempt of "team Palestine"
to deflect to just about anything else but the subject?

 

[surada]

The Grand Mufti is only responsible for what the Grand Mufti thought, planned and did. And whose help he sought to put his plan in place.

The Transfer Agreement has nothing to do with the riots against Jews caused by the Mufti in 1920, 1921, 1929 and from 1936 to 1939. Or his role in the riots sparked against Jews in Iraq in 1941.

The Transfer Agreement was to save lives of Jews to be able to bring them to Palestine, instead of what happened to all the other Jews who stayed in Europe, and we do know how many lost their lives.

With the stroke of a keyboard, you continuously "whitewash", to use your word, all that has happened, who did what to whom and why.

Is this because you have no understanding at all of what happened back then, or is it because anything that attacks the Jewish people must be true to you.
So far, the latter continues to be the truth.

To you, all European Jews are Indigenous of Europe therefore they had no right to come to "Palestine", before or after the Mandate, and "take" the land from the "native" Arab Palestinians, both words making the biggest oxymoron term I have ever seen.

If I have not said this before, let me say it now:

You do NOT give a darn about ONE Jewish life, because you have been taught to NOT give a damn about Jewish lives.

Read what you type, what comes out of your mind, your knowledge of things.

Christian Europe turns against Jews. That is ok with you.

Islam turns against Jews, that is ok with you, too.


There is a pattern here, as there is with many of the other posters who have been taught that Jewish life does not matter and Jews are bad.

How many of you may have read the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" ? Hitler and the Mufti read them and lived by them. THAT, on top of what they had learned from the NT and the Koran.

One and one makes two.

Hate Jews + Hate Jews = MORE hatred of Jews


Don't worry, no logic will ever reach your mind and make you question what you have been taught, by the NT, by the Koran and by the Arabs you lived amongst who may not have cared for Jews anymore than you.

Ignorance is ignorance, and you can repeat things which may sound bad against the Jews as they were trying to save lives.

As I posted above, had those lives been of Arabs, or Christians, or Muslims, you would have welcomed all the help from the Nazis, Mussolini, or anyone else, as long as it was to save lives.

Doing business with Nazis to save lives of Jews = always turns the Jews into Nazis

Doing business with Nazis as Muslims, in order to kill Jews = turns what happened and what those Muslims did as something which never happened.


NO ONE has the right to destroy Jewish History, no matter how much they HATE Jews.

And that history will never be destroyed.

Your accusations are vile and self serving.

Jewish history like three million people living in Sinai with their herds for 40 years? That history? The population of Sinai today is maxxed out at 800,000.

The Protocols about the Elders of Zion was written in France as a satire about Napoleon the 3ed.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Your accusations are vile and self serving.

Jewish history like three million people living in Sinai with their herds for 40 years? That history? The population of Sinai today is maxxed out at 800,000.

Your Judeophobe, Antisemitic, Jew Hating points of view are fully noted.

 

[surada]

Your Judeophobe, Antisemitic, Jew Hating points of view are fully noted.

I don't have a problem with Jews. I socialize with Jews every day... Dominos, Art studio, Book club.

I met several Jews in Arabia who were there on business.

You have some sort of obsession or victim complex.

 

[rylah]

Your accusations are vile and self serving.

Jewish history like three million people living in Sinai with their herds for 40 years? That history? The population of Sinai today is maxxed out at 800,000.

The Protocols about the Elders of Zion was written in France as a satire about Napoleon the 3ed.

I don't have a problem with Jews. I socialize with Jews every day... Dominos, Art studio, Book club.

I met several Jews in Arabia who were there on business.

You have some sort of obsession or victim complex.

"But...but...but the Elders of Zion
but...but..but my best friends are Jews..."

All one needs to know about intellectual degradation,
and why tiny Greece publishes yearly more books
than the entire Arab world in a decade.

Q. Still nothing on history of a state called "historic Palestine"?

 

[surada]

But...but...but Elders of Zion
but...but..but "my best friends are Jews" y

Still nothing on the history of a nation state called "historic Palestine"?

The Jews exaggerated their history. Solomon had no mines. The mines belonged to Egypt and the to the Edomites. Much of what is attributed to Solomon was built by Omri.. Exodus is a myth and so it Noah and the battles of Joshua.

Israel has some of the finest archaeologists i the world and yet you persist ....

Ancient Jerusalem: The Village, the Town, the City

Ancient Jerusalem made such an enormous impact on Western civilization that it’s hard to fathom how small its population really was.

www.biblicalarchaeology.org

excerpt:

The first period that Geva considers in his study is from the 18th–11th centuries B.C.E. (Middle Bronze Age II to Iron Age I, in archaeological terms), the period before the arrival of the Israelites. Jerusalem was then confined to the small spur south of the Temple Mount known today as the City of David. As Geva reminds us, even then Jerusalem “was the center of an important territorial entity.” From this period, the area includes a massive fortification system that has recently been excavated.

Overall, however, the area comprises only about 11–12 acres. Geva estimates the population of the city during this period at between 500 and 700 “at most.” (Previously other prominent scholars had estimated Jerusalem’s population in this period as 880–1,100, 1,000, 2,500, 3,000; still this is hardly what we would consider a metropolis.)

jerusalem-landmarks
The shaded area reflects the current walled Old City of Jerusalem.

The next period Geva considers is the period of the United Monarchy, the time of King David and King Solomon and a couple centuries thereafter (1000 B.C.E. down to about the eighth century B.C.E.). In David’s time, the borders of the city did not change from the previous period. However, King Solomon expanded the confines of the city northward to include the Temple Mount.

This increased the size of the city to about 40 acres, but the increase in population was not proportionate since much of this expansion was taken up with the Temple and royal buildings. “It is likely that Jerusalem attracted new inhabitants of different social classes,” Geva tells us. “Some of these people came to reside in the city as a consequence of their official and religious capacities, while others came to seek a livelihood in its developing economy.”

Geva estimates the population of the city at this time at about 2,000. (Previously, other scholars had estimated the number of people living in the city at this time as 2,000, 2,500 or 4,500–5,000.)

 

[rylah]

The Jews exaggerated their history. Solomon had no mines. The mines belonged to Egypt and the to the Edomites. Much of what is attributed to Solomon was built by Omri.. Exodus is a myth and so it Noah and the battles of Joshua.

Israel has some of the finest archaeologists i the world and yet you persist ....

Ancient Jerusalem: The Village, the Town, the City

Ancient Jerusalem made such an enormous impact on Western civilization that it’s hard to fathom how small its population really was.

www.biblicalarchaeology.org

excerpt:

The first period that Geva considers in his study is from the 18th–11th centuries B.C.E. (Middle Bronze Age II to Iron Age I, in archaeological terms), the period before the arrival of the Israelites. Jerusalem was then confined to the small spur south of the Temple Mount known today as the City of David. As Geva reminds us, even then Jerusalem “was the center of an important territorial entity.” From this period, the area includes a massive fortification system that has recently been excavated.

Overall, however, the area comprises only about 11–12 acres. Geva estimates the population of the city during this period at between 500 and 700 “at most.” (Previously other prominent scholars had estimated Jerusalem’s population in this period as 880–1,100, 1,000, 2,500, 3,000; still this is hardly what we would consider a metropolis.)

jerusalem-landmarks
The shaded area reflects the current walled Old City of Jerusalem.

The next period Geva considers is the period of the United Monarchy, the time of King David and King Solomon and a couple centuries thereafter (1000 B.C.E. down to about the eighth century B.C.E.). In David’s time, the borders of the city did not change from the previous period. However, King Solomon expanded the confines of the city northward to include the Temple Mount.

This increased the size of the city to about 40 acres, but the increase in population was not proportionate since much of this expansion was taken up with the Temple and royal buildings. “It is likely that Jerusalem attracted new inhabitants of different social classes,” Geva tells us. “Some of these people came to reside in the city as a consequence of their official and religious capacities, while others came to seek a livelihood in its developing economy.”

Geva estimates the population of the city at this time at about 2,000. (Previously, other scholars had estimated the number of people living in the city at this time as 2,000, 2,500 or 4,500–5,000.)

I've asked about the nation so called "historic Palestine", and all have is but Jews.
Seems you really can't compute this exactly makes my point.

Don't you have anything to refute the OP?

 

[Sixties Fan]

The Jews exaggerated their history. Solomon had no mines. The mines belonged to Egypt and the to the Edomites. Much of what is attributed to Solomon was built by Omri.. Exodus is a myth and so it Noah and the battles of Joshua.

Israel has some of the finest archaeologists i the world and yet you persist ....

Ancient Jerusalem: The Village, the Town, the City

Ancient Jerusalem made such an enormous impact on Western civilization that it’s hard to fathom how small its population really was.

www.biblicalarchaeology.org

excerpt:

The first period that Geva considers in his study is from the 18th–11th centuries B.C.E. (Middle Bronze Age II to Iron Age I, in archaeological terms), the period before the arrival of the Israelites. Jerusalem was then confined to the small spur south of the Temple Mount known today as the City of David. As Geva reminds us, even then Jerusalem “was the center of an important territorial entity.” From this period, the area includes a massive fortification system that has recently been excavated.

Overall, however, the area comprises only about 11–12 acres. Geva estimates the population of the city during this period at between 500 and 700 “at most.” (Previously other prominent scholars had estimated Jerusalem’s population in this period as 880–1,100, 1,000, 2,500, 3,000; still this is hardly what we would consider a metropolis.)

jerusalem-landmarks
The shaded area reflects the current walled Old City of Jerusalem.

The next period Geva considers is the period of the United Monarchy, the time of King David and King Solomon and a couple centuries thereafter (1000 B.C.E. down to about the eighth century B.C.E.). In David’s time, the borders of the city did not change from the previous period. However, King Solomon expanded the confines of the city northward to include the Temple Mount.

This increased the size of the city to about 40 acres, but the increase in population was not proportionate since much of this expansion was taken up with the Temple and royal buildings. “It is likely that Jerusalem attracted new inhabitants of different social classes,” Geva tells us. “Some of these people came to reside in the city as a consequence of their official and religious capacities, while others came to seek a livelihood in its developing economy.”

Geva estimates the population of the city at this time at about 2,000. (Previously, other scholars had estimated the number of people living in the city at this time as 2,000, 2,500 or 4,500–5,000.)

Where is Historic Palestine in all of this

Can you seriously not find anything about Historical Palestine, but merely continue to attempt to destroy the History of only ONE people on the planet?

 

[surada]

Where is Historic Palestine in all of this?

Palestine was just a province of Syria.

Let's see, Sargon 2 settled four Arab tribes in Samaria around 700 BC. The Greeks has 10 cities of the Decapolis. Plus there was Scythopolis.

Revelation
11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.[/QUOTE]

 

[rylah]

Palestine was just a province of Syria.

Let's see.

So there was never such an independent state.
And was ever in history an Arab nation called "historic Palestine"?

 

[surada]

I've asked about the nation so called "historic Palestine", and all have is but Jews.
Seems you really can't compute this exactly makes my point.

Don't you have anything to refute the OP?

What is there to discuss? Palestine was a province of Syria from at least 500 BC if not earlier. The Akkadians (Arabs) were all over the region in Syria, Mesopotamia and the Levant a thousand years before the Hebrews split off from the NorthCoast Canaanites.

 

[rylah]

What is there to discuss? Palestine was a province of Syria from at least 500 BC if not earlier. The Akkadians (Arabs) were all over the region in Syria, Mesopotamia and the Levant a thousand years before the Hebrews split off from the NorthCoast Canaanites.

Akkadians weren't Arabs, and were never referred as the nation of "historic Palestine".

But thanks again for showing the length of revisionism you'll reach,
to deflect from the apparent lack of any distinct identity
of a nation called "historic Palestine" - other than Arab.

Yet any historic mention of an Arab nation
referred to as "historic Palestine" ?

Know Your History: Even the Term "Free Palestine" Was Co-opted From the Jews

"Free, free Palestine!"These are the words shouted out by Israel haters worldwide, more often than not an expression of their wish for the destruction of the state of Israel. But did you know the first use of the words "Free Palestine" were for the exact opposite objective?

www.israellycool.com

 

[watchingfromafar]

Is that why you never show them
and end up invoking the Neanderthals instead?

Say whatever you were saying and lets get to the real issue here.
The Israelites need to produce land holding deeds or grants from the rightful owners and if they cannot then they are squatters and by law they should be evicted.
If they are forced out, the Egyptians may take them in, then maybe not.
As an American citizen, I say keep the squatters out of the USA; period !!!
-

 

[watchingfromafar]

NO ONE has the right to destroy Jewish History, no matter how much they HATE Jews.
And that history will never be destroyed.

That history you are talking about begins with—

HISTORY OF THE ISRAELITES

[1] throwing bombs into buses, homes, and public buildings, murdering many
[2] assassinating political leaders
[3] using IDF sniper teams to murder Palestinian children
[4] cutting off fishing rights that they lawfully have a right to fish
[5] BULLDOZING ENTIRE Palestinian villages and then building illegal settlements in the cleared land.
[6]______________________________________
-

 

[rylah]

Say whatever you were saying and lets get to the real issue here.

But show an example, I'll just say whatever I'm saying,
and you keep pretending to disagree,
while making my point.

If they are forced out, the Egyptians may take them in, then maybe not.
As an American citizen, I say keep the squatters out of the USA; period !!!

Congratulations I guess now you can
turn a stool upside down sit and eat some Chilli.
Let's see how soon you find out you're in that very category.

The Israelites need to produce land holding deeds or grants from the rightful owners and if they cannot then they are squatters and by law they should be evicted.

When you define land holding a deed of rightful ownership,
then what does that actually mean, whoever G-d sees fit to give the land?

If you don't consider G-d an authority, and holding land not a deed,
maybe you're considering only Muslim rule "rightful ownership"
and looking for a Kushan issued by the Ottoman Caliphate?

Here's an Ottoman Kushan of ownership,
for the Houran and Golan -

If international law is enough an authority, then you can look up the Mandate for Palestine,
its recognition of the historic legal rights for re-constitution of the Jewish nation,
with the article 80 of the UN charter, a benchmark of international law.

Was this what you were babbling about?
Now I would really like to see what you have.

Or better - let's get to the real issue as you say -
can you actually show us an ownership deed ever issued
by any nation or a country referred to as "HISTORIC PALESTINE"?

 

[rylah]

Um Sameer tells the story of Sheikh Jarrah​

,
The 'story of Sheikh Jarrah"...

and the actual history of Shim'on HaZadik -

 

[rylah]

 

[surada]

“Historic Palestine” is a commonly-used term when discussing the Arab-Israeli conflict. The phrase suggests that a nation known as Palestine existed in the past, with the word “historic” giving the impression that this nation has deep roots in the region and thus has a natural claim to be revived in the form of a modern state called Palestine. By referring to the land thus without mentioning Jewish history, it also subtly suggests that a Jewish presence is foreign to the region.

This article discusses the origin and evolution of the usage of “Palestine” as a place name and how current notions of “Historic Palestine” are all based on a false understanding of the geographic and political history of the region.

Historic Palestine in today’s usage typically refers to the territory that now comprises Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Here are several recent prominent examples of usage of the term:

• Saeb Erekat, chief negotiator for the Palestinian Authority, stated in an opinion piece published in the New York Times in May 2019 that the Palestinians recognized Israel on the “1967 border, equivalent to 78 percent of historic Palestine.”'Historic Palestine' – A Misleading Anachronism Which “historic Palestine” was Erekat referring to and does Israel really comprise 78% of this “historic” territory?

• The Columbia Journalism Review published an article in January 2019 titled “Palestinian citizens of Israel struggle to tell their stories” in which the author claimed that “Historic Palestine under Ottoman and British control had a thriving Arabic press.”[ii] Was Palestine ever a territory under Ottoman control?

• A June 2019 article in The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs about Trump’s “Deal of the Century” for Middle East peace states that the deal could leave the “New Palestine” in charge of “about 12 percent of historic Palestine.”[iii] What land area was used to arrive at this figure?

• President Abbas noted the following in his address to the United Nations in November 2012: “The two-state solution, i.e. the State of Palestine coexisting alongside the State of Israel, represents the spirit and essence of the historic compromise embodied in the Oslo Declaration of Principles, the agreement signed 19 years ago between the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) and the Government of Israel under the auspices of the United States of America on the White House Lawn, a compromise by which the Palestinian people accepted to establish their state on only 22% of the territory of historic Palestine for the sake of making peace.”[iv] Is this 22% number accurate?

'Historic Palestine' - A Misleading Anachronism | HonestReporting

“Historic Palestine” is an erroneously used term when discussing the Arab-Israeli conflict, supposedly referring to a nation that existed in the past.

honestreporting.com

(Comment)

It's an extensively informative article.

But there's a very simple basic question - why do all lectures on this "Historic Palestine" narrative,
the pictures, stories and all discourse - always start at some late point , 30-40 years into Zionist enterprise, after the land and its economy has been already progressively rejuvenating,
drying the vast swamps, building new cities?

And of course, thus dodging the preceding Arab pogroms,
that destroy the alleged "disturbed peaceful co-existence" propaganda...

Historically Palestine was a province of Syria.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Historically Palestine was a province of Syria.

Stop spreading lies, or semi lies about the Jewish homeland.

You are starting to go on all the threads again?

Get a life. Seriously.

Am Israel Chai !