Hillary Clinton campaign advisers warn “don’t mention Israel” amongst activists

[RoccoR]

...

JoeB131, Divine Wind, et al,

There were many aspects that gradually came about and set the conditions, which ultimately lead to the opening of hostilities --- the 1967 conflict. There was no one singled fault --- but many for as many different reasons.

As far as the Allied Powers are involved, there was the British-French (Sykes-Picot) Arrangement. And later the Cold War between the US and the Soviet Union (which is now the Russian Federation).

By 1967, the US provided assistance to the Israelis, while the Soviets provided the military assistance to the Lebanese, Syrians, and Egyptians; and the British supplied the Jordanians.

The US was not the prime mover in the war. When the 800,000 Egyptian rolled up on Israeli Border, they rolled up with a thousand Russian Tanks.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[JoeB131]

Why when they come here and try to pass of the LIES found there as truth. I can argue here until they are sick of being shown up and then are forced to play their last card and put me on ignore. This shows they dont have a valid argument and are just here to demonise the Jews

the only people demonizing the Jews these days are the Zionists... which is what happens when you bomb hospitals and run over peace activists with bulldozers...

 

[JoeB131]

There were many aspects that gradually came about and set the conditions, which ultimately lead to the opening of hostilities --- the 1967 conflict. There was no one singled fault --- but many for as many different reasons.

As far as the Allied Powers are involved, there was the British-French (Sykes-Picot) Arrangement. And later the Cold War between the US and the Soviet Union (which is now the Russian Federation).

By 1967, the US provided assistance to the Israelis, while the Soviets provided the military assistance to the Lebanese, Syrians, and Egyptians; and the British supplied the Jordanians.

The US was not the prime mover in the war. When the 800,000 Egyptian rolled up on Israeli Border, they rolled up with a thousand Russian Tanks.

yes, the Zionists are very good into fooling people into thinking their problems are everyone' elses.

During the cold war, it was 'Well fight these Arabs for you, we think they are all Commies or something."

Now it's 'Hey, we think they are all ISIS or Al Qaeda or something" not just some folks who want their land back.

 

[Hollie]

There were many aspects that gradually came about and set the conditions, which ultimately lead to the opening of hostilities --- the 1967 conflict. There was no one singled fault --- but many for as many different reasons.

As far as the Allied Powers are involved, there was the British-French (Sykes-Picot) Arrangement. And later the Cold War between the US and the Soviet Union (which is now the Russian Federation).

By 1967, the US provided assistance to the Israelis, while the Soviets provided the military assistance to the Lebanese, Syrians, and Egyptians; and the British supplied the Jordanians.

The US was not the prime mover in the war. When the 800,000 Egyptian rolled up on Israeli Border, they rolled up with a thousand Russian Tanks.

yes, the Zionists are very good into fooling people into thinking their problems are everyone' elses.

During the cold war, it was 'Well fight these Arabs for you, we think they are all Commies or something."

Now it's 'Hey, we think they are all ISIS or Al Qaeda or something" not just some folks who want their land back.

"Just some folks who want their land back?

Obviously, you need to understand the islamic revulsion of Israel (and manipulative references to The Plight of The Poor, Oppressed Palestinians™) in terms of Islamic ideology. You also need to understand the Islamist concept of waqf. That concept is what drives islam'istan thus allowing the "Pal'istinians" to be used as convenient cannon-fodder in the vilification (and hoped-for destruction) of Israel.

In Arabic, waqf can literally mean prevention, restraint, or retention. In Islamism, a waqf is any property that has been given for the benefit of moslems, in perpetuity, and to please muhammud (swish). It is essentially making land, or other material, muhammud's property, not to be taken back by anyone. It is an important part of shariah law, and has several purposes. In the context of "Pal'istan", we are concerned with its ramifications in connection with land and with the islamist vilification of Jews.

In Islamism, the war of gee-had is holy (although it is not seen as war by moslems) because it is for the purpose of expanding muhammud's domain on Earth. It is commanded of the faithful, and it is an honor as well as a duty. According to the shariah, territories which are gained through gee-had become waqf, and cannot thereafter be given up. They become, literally, an inseverable part of muhammud's dominion, for the sole welfare of the ummah (the islamist community, "Ummah'istan' is my manufactured term). If territories acquired by Islam are taken by infidels, they must be retaken in gee-had, today, tomorrow, sooner or later. It is a religious obligation. This is because what belongs to muhammud (swish) cannot be taken from those who serve him. For this reason, Israel will never have peace with moslaems so long as Islam remains in its current, unreformed state. When Khalifah Omar took Jerusalem in 638 CE, he made Israel an Islamic waqf. For that matter, in their charter, Hamas demonstrates how their right to destroy Israel is simply an obligation to muhammud (swish) through the principle of waqf:

· Israel will rise and will remain erect until eliminated by Islam... [Introduction]

· Palestine is an Islamic Waqf throughout all generations and to the Day of Resurrection. [Article 11]

· …the liberation of Palestine is an individual duty binding on all Muslims everywhere. [Article 13]

· There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. [Article 13]

· In order to face the theft of Palestine by the Jews, we have no escape from raising the banner of Jihad. [Article 15]

· When our enemies usurp some Islamic lands, Jihad becomes a duty binding on all Muslims. [Article 15]

These are not the aberrant words of extremists. They are the prescriptions of mainstream Islamism, derived from the koran and sunnah. In the triumphalist creed of Islam, the proprietary concerns of the rest of the world are secondary to the moslems' mission from Mo (swish). This includes land upon which a nation was legitimately established by an indigenous people. Once it's taken in the conquest of gee-ad, it's gone, and it's gone for good. The original inhabitants may live there if they are monotheists, but only in submission to Islamic law.

 

[Shusha]

... just some folks who want their land back.

You can imagine the Arab Palestinian people as just people who "want their land back". You can imagine the Jewish people the same way.

 

[Phoenall]

So what is the definitive length of time an expelled people have to be, you know, expelled, before they lose all their rights? A year? A hundred years? A thousand years? Just curious what your objective parameters are.

A thousand years seems reasonable.

I think after a generation, rights become a matter of negotiation. When you go far back into history - there is no way of even knowing if the historical claims are accurate. It's kind of like paying reparations and the right of return issues.

Hmmm. Interesting. I actually go the other direction with that question. Any quantification is ultimately arbitrary. The morally correct answer, imo, is that a people who have been conquered, expelled, invaded, ethnically cleansed, whatever terms you want to attach to it, have an on-going, inherent, inviolable right to return to that land. This is especially true of indigenous cultures (pre-invasion cultures which originated on that territory). This right does not supersede or overthrow the rights of other cultures, but the right, itself, exists. This right is limited by the extent to which a culture can maintain its distinctiveness and integrity, by definition.

I agreed....any quantification is arbritrary, but so is the existence of those rights. There are always people who came before and people who came after and when it comes to ancient history - the accounting of events may not even be accurate. To base rights upon that has to potential to disenfrachise the rights of other peoples in the process. It seems very subjective to me. I use the Palestinians "right of return" as an example - does it apply just to those who were expelled? Or...their sons and daughters? Or, down through the generations to the end of time? And, what do those rights mean? That they have a right to go live there regardless of who's already there or immigration laws?

You say the right is limited...but what's the point of a "right" if it can't be expressed?

And why is the right limited by the "extent to which a culture can maintain its distinctiveness and integrity, by definition." - is not that arbritrary?

When I think of rights, I think of something intrinsic, inalienable. A culture doesn't have rights. A state doesn't have rights. An individual does. A state can choose to recognize rights, but it doesn't grant them.

It doesn't apply to any as there is no legal right of return. This was squashed by the arab muslim members of the UN when they realised they would lose Mecca and Medina.

It can be expressed just not actioned because of other peoples rights that are greater than those that came first

Who in your myopic and narraw view of the world has most right to the lands of America, first nations people or the descendants of armed invaders ?

And that is why you have such as myopic and narrow view, because the reality is too big for you to contemplate. A culture does have rights, like the right to exist and develop without causing harm. A state does have rights, like the right to defend its people from harm. Individuals have the most rights, and one of those is the right to live in peace and safety. A state can grant rights, as in the rights of illegal immigrants to a fair trial paid for by the state

 

[Phoenall]

The fact that millions of European Jews are taking a whiz on Islam's holiest land is.

Islam's holiest land?!

You've got to be kidding me.

Told you all he has is the mantra's from the hate sites to substantiate his claims.

 

[Phoenall]

Why when they come here and try to pass of the LIES found there as truth. I can argue here until they are sick of being shown up and then are forced to play their last card and put me on ignore. This shows they dont have a valid argument and are just here to demonise the Jews

the only people demonizing the Jews these days are the Zionists... which is what happens when you bomb hospitals and run over peace activists with bulldozers...

That is what happens to building used to house military instalations under INTERNATIONAL LAWS, they are bombed because they are no longer protected. But you Jew haters refuse to accept that INTERNATIONAL LAW works for the Jews and protects their rights.
She was a war activist as she incited violence against the Jews, she had no right to be in a war zone inciting violence against one side and living the LIE. She was at least 1/4 of a mile from the doctors house when she committed suicide by standing in the drivers blind spot as he collapsed illegal tunnels on the orders of Egypt.

So you see by promoting the LIES dredged up from hate sites you are doing nothing more than demonising the Jews and Israel because you need the evidence of wrong doing to placate your hatred. It is you neo nazi's, islamofascists and white supremacists that are the cause of most of the worlds propblems and you need to be removed from society. No doubt if you were arrested for un-american activity today the Russians would have headlines demanding your release as a Soviet citizen

 

[Phoenall]

There were many aspects that gradually came about and set the conditions, which ultimately lead to the opening of hostilities --- the 1967 conflict. There was no one singled fault --- but many for as many different reasons.

As far as the Allied Powers are involved, there was the British-French (Sykes-Picot) Arrangement. And later the Cold War between the US and the Soviet Union (which is now the Russian Federation).

By 1967, the US provided assistance to the Israelis, while the Soviets provided the military assistance to the Lebanese, Syrians, and Egyptians; and the British supplied the Jordanians.

The US was not the prime mover in the war. When the 800,000 Egyptian rolled up on Israeli Border, they rolled up with a thousand Russian Tanks.

yes, the Zionists are very good into fooling people into thinking their problems are everyone' elses.

During the cold war, it was 'Well fight these Arabs for you, we think they are all Commies or something."

Now it's 'Hey, we think they are all ISIS or Al Qaeda or something" not just some folks who want their land back.

Are these the new mantras from the hate sites that you have no supporting evidence for other than the articles on the hate sites. The Jews fought the far superior forces of the arab nations supplied with Russian weapons, the Jews had to buy their weapons at full price. They had no American tacticians in the field of battle with them telling them what to do, or a steady supply of light weapons to fall back on. So how did the inferior forces of Israel destroy the superior forces of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, UAE and other islamic nations time and time again.

Why did the US beg Israel to stay out of the Gulf war even as Saddam fired scuds into Israel to force them into attacking him, hoping that would force the rest of the M.E. into war against the great shaitan and Israel.

Another question you Jew haters refuse to answer because it blows your cover

 

[Phoenall]

There were many aspects that gradually came about and set the conditions, which ultimately lead to the opening of hostilities --- the 1967 conflict. There was no one singled fault --- but many for as many different reasons.

As far as the Allied Powers are involved, there was the British-French (Sykes-Picot) Arrangement. And later the Cold War between the US and the Soviet Union (which is now the Russian Federation).

By 1967, the US provided assistance to the Israelis, while the Soviets provided the military assistance to the Lebanese, Syrians, and Egyptians; and the British supplied the Jordanians.

The US was not the prime mover in the war. When the 800,000 Egyptian rolled up on Israeli Border, they rolled up with a thousand Russian Tanks.

yes, the Zionists are very good into fooling people into thinking their problems are everyone' elses.

During the cold war, it was 'Well fight these Arabs for you, we think they are all Commies or something."

Now it's 'Hey, we think they are all ISIS or Al Qaeda or something" not just some folks who want their land back.

Are these the new mantras from the hate sites that you have no supporting evidence for other than the articles on the hate sites. The Jews fought the far superior forces of the arab nations supplied with Russian weapons, the Jews had to buy their weapons at full price. They had no American tacticians in the field of battle with them telling them what to do, or a steady supply of light weapons to fall back on. So how did the inferior forces of Israel destroy the superior forces of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, UAE and other islamic nations time and time again.

Why did the US beg Israel to stay out of the Gulf war even as Saddam fired scuds into Israel to force them into attacking him, hoping that would force the rest of the M.E. into war against the great shaitan and Israel.

Another question you Jew haters refuse to answer because it blows your cover

 

[JoeB131]

Obviously, you need to understand the islamic revulsion of Israel (and manipulative references to The Plight of The Poor, Oppressed Palestinians™) in terms of Islamic ideology. You also need to understand the Islamist concept of waqf. That concept is what drives islam'istan thus allowing the "Pal'istinians" to be used as convenient cannon-fodder in the vilification (and hoped-for destruction) of Israel.

Yawn, honey, back in the sixties, it was because the Palestinians were all communists who hated Israel and Freedom.

Now in the Oughts it's because they are Islamists who hate Jesus. and Freedom.

It'll be some other ******* lame ass excuse in another 20 years.

 

[JoeB131]

The Jews fought the far superior forces of the arab nations supplied with Russian weapons, the Jews had to buy their weapons at full price. They had no American tacticians in the field of battle with them telling them what to do, or a steady supply of light weapons to fall back on. So how did the inferior forces of Israel destroy the superior forces of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, UAE and other islamic nations time and time again.

Well, they haven't. Let's roll that beautiful Bean Footage, shall we.

1947- Zionists armed with western weapons defeat Arab nations - most of which only recently won their independence from the UK and France. Only barely manage to steal a little more land than the British had alloted them.

1956 - Zionists conspire with British and French to illegal seize the Suez Canal. The USA and USSR pressured them to knock that shit off. end result was that egypt got control of the Canal.

1967- Zionists launch sneak attack on Arab countries. This is really their only "Victory", I suppose.

1973- Egypt and Syria initially kicked the Zionists ass. Then Golda Meier tells Nixon and Jew Kissinger that she'll launch the nukes if Israel loses, so we dumped a shitload of replacement planes and tanks in there.

1982- Israel invades Lebanon, gets bogged down for years, needs the americans to bail them out.

1987 - First INfantada ends in a stalemate. Hamas is formed.

1990- Zionists manipulate the US into attacking Iraq, which was none of our ******* business.

2000 - Second Infantada- Israel fails to defeat PLO and Hamas again.

2006- Israel invades Lebanon. Spectacular fail.

2007- Israel attacks Gaza.

2014 - Zionists attack Gaza again.

Yes, so most of those are a state actor beating up on refugees and shit, not some glorious war...

But again.... Fighting a what, 70 year war now because a Magic Sky Pixie promised you a strip of desert?

That's all manner of stupid.

 

[Hollie]

Obviously, you need to understand the islamic revulsion of Israel (and manipulative references to The Plight of The Poor, Oppressed Palestinians™) in terms of Islamic ideology. You also need to understand the Islamist concept of waqf. That concept is what drives islam'istan thus allowing the "Pal'istinians" to be used as convenient cannon-fodder in the vilification (and hoped-for destruction) of Israel.

Yawn, honey, back in the sixties, it was because the Palestinians were all communists who hated Israel and Freedom.

Now in the Oughts it's because they are Islamists who hate Jesus. and Freedom.

It'll be some other ******* lame ass excuse in another 20 years.

Sorry, pumpkin. It was in the late sixties when Arafat invented the Pal'istanians. He added an invented name to an invented people with an invented "nationality".

Your clichés and slogans are a waste of bandwidth.

 

[JoeB131]

Sorry, pumpkin. It was in the late sixties when Arafat invented the Pal'istanians. He added an invented name to an invented people with an invented "nationality".

Your clichés and slogans are a waste of bandwidth.

Really...

British map from 1929. NO Israel, says Palestine.

 

[Hollie]

Sorry, pumpkin. It was in the late sixties when Arafat invented the Pal'istanians. He added an invented name to an invented people with an invented "nationality".

Your clichés and slogans are a waste of bandwidth.

Really...

British map from 1929. NO Israel, says Palestine.

Yes, dear. You read it on the internet so it must be true.

You suffer the same debilitating disease of cut and paste syndrome that afflicts two others who are similar cut and pasters. This has been addressed more times than I can recall but the short version for you is: Pal'istan was a reference to a geographic area. You may want to believe (as another poster will insist), that a "country of Pal'istan" existed. It did not. Here in the Great Satan we have a geographic region called the Bible Belt. Here's a bit of enlightenment for you. The Bible Belt is not an autonomous "country".

Do yourself a favor a do a search in these forums. RoccoP has written several lengthy responses to the oft-imagined "country of Pal'istan", nonsense.

 

[JoeB131]

so you think changing a letter or two is an argument?

Yup, those Palestinians just made up being Palestinians in the 1960's, those scamps!

 

[Hollie]

so you think changing a letter or two is an argument?

Yup, those Palestinians just made up being Palestinians in the 1960's, those scamps!

So you think cutting and pasting a map you found with a cursory internet search suddenly re-writes history and makes the geographic area of Pal'istan a "country"?

Wow. I'll have to search the Internet and find the borders of the country called the Bible Belt.

 

[JoeB131]

So you think cutting and pasting a map you found with a cursory internet search suddenly re-writes history and makes the geographic area of Pal'istan a "country"?

Wow. I'll have to search the Internet and find the borders of the country called the Bible Belt.

I do like how you call it "Pal-istan". Nothing makes a bunch of people scarier than putting 'istan" behind their names. Another cute trick.

The Zionists have been pulling this trick for years. Find out what scares the west and get them to bankroll your crazy schemes.

 

[Hollie]

So you think cutting and pasting a map you found with a cursory internet search suddenly re-writes history and makes the geographic area of Pal'istan a "country"?

Wow. I'll have to search the Internet and find the borders of the country called the Bible Belt.

I do like how you call it "Pal-istan". Nothing makes a bunch of people scarier than putting 'istan" behind their names. Another cute trick.

The Zionists have been pulling this trick for years. Find out what scares the west and get them to bankroll your crazy schemes.

It seems your best attempt at argument amounts to silly clichés and slogans such as The Zionists™

Prior to your invention of the "country of Pal'istan", the area was little more than Arab (with a collection of other ethnicities / religious groups), who lived in the British Mandate of Palestine. The Arab population simply claimed that the land belonged to the Arabs. That was not unexpected as a function of pan-Arabism, the good Arab-Moslem thought of himself more as a person associated with the ummah vs. a local tribe or clan.


Here's a look into the gaping maw of the underdeveloped Pan-Arab mind, such as it is.

The Avalon Project : The Palestinian National Charter

Article 1:
Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.

 

[Divine Wind]

...

JoeB131, Divine Wind, et al,

There were many aspects that gradually came about and set the conditions, which ultimately lead to the opening of hostilities --- the 1967 conflict. There was no one singled fault --- but many for as many different reasons.

As far as the Allied Powers are involved, there was the British-French (Sykes-Picot) Arrangement. And later the Cold War between the US and the Soviet Union (which is now the Russian Federation).

By 1967, the US provided assistance to the Israelis, while the Soviets provided the military assistance to the Lebanese, Syrians, and Egyptians; and the British supplied the Jordanians.

The US was not the prime mover in the war. When the 800,000 Egyptian rolled up on Israeli Border, they rolled up with a thousand Russian Tanks.

Most Respectfully,
R

A much more contextual view of history than our resident antisemitic Joe was purporting. Thanks, Rocco. As you saw in his response to your post, he could only spew venom and a vastly distorted view of reality.