Zone1 Here's Why White Guilt About Slavery Is Insane

[cnm]

There's a reason the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.... they keep doing the same things.

Buying governments, usually.

 

[ding]

They go with what they have.

No other institution in America played a greater role in perpetuating slavery, segregation, bigotry and racism than the Democratic Party. Pretending to be sympathetic now rings hollow.

 

[IM2]

I never saw any of that.

There's a reason the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.... they keep doing the same things.

Some whites have an excuse for everything. Your parents and grandparents saw it, and you indirectly benefited from it. There is a reason why blacks have a high poverty rate adn it is not for any reason most whites want to discuss. Until you guys are capable of having that discussion, things will continue until this nation collapses financially.

 

[Robert W]

Buying governments, usually.

Many of us love facts. For your personal reasons, you do not like them.

 

[IM2]

No other institution in America played a greater role in perpetuating slavery, segregation, bigotry and racism than the Democratic Party. Pretending to be sympathetic now rings hollow.

Actiually both parties have an equal share in that. But white Republicans love to blame the Democrats.

 

[Robert W]

There is a reason why blacks have a high poverty rate

I am shocked you admit it.

 

[ding]

Buying governments, usually.

So the only way to be successful is to cheat? Are you successful? Did you cheat?

 

[ding]

Actiually both parties have an equal share in that. But white Republicans love to blame the Democrats.

Not if you know history. The worst thing the Republican Party did was pull troops out of the south.

 

[ding]

Some whites have an excuse for everything. Your parents and grandparents saw it, and you indirectly benefited from it. There is a reason why blacks have a high poverty rate adn it is not for any reason most whites want to discuss. Until you guys are capable of having that discussion, things will continue until this nation collapses financially.

My grandparents were poor. My father and mother grew up poor. You want to dismiss the role the lack of a nuclear family has played because you can't blame anyone else for it. Until black communities fix that problem they can expect more of the same. No one is coming to save them.

 

[IM2]

Not if you know history. The worst thing the Republican Party did was pull troops out of the south.

I do know history. The 1877 Compromise you talk about ended Reconstruction. That's what Republicans did. Modern Republicans need to stop lying about this because the Republicans of that time, specifically the Radical Repubicans, would be the liberals of today. The Dixiecrats were conservatives!

 

[ding]

I do know history. The 1877 Compromise you talk about ended Reconstruction. That's what Republicans did. Modern Republicans need to stop lying about this because the Republicans of that time, specifically the Radical Repubicans, would be the liberals of today. The Dixiecrats were conservatives!

It did more than that. It ended free democracy in the south.

After the Civil War, during Reconstruction (1865–1877), Black men were elected to Southern state legislatures through the protection of the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments and the Reconstruction Acts of 1867, which mandated interracial voting. Supported by federal troops, the Republican Party, and coalitions with white "carpetbaggers" and "scalawags," over 600 African Americans served in state legislatures, pushing for public education and civil rights.

Key Factors in the Election of Black Legislators:

• Constitutional Amendments & Federal Acts: The 15th Amendment (1870) prohibited states from denying voting rights based on race. The Reconstruction Act of 1867 required Southern states to draft new constitutions allowing Black men to vote and hold office.
• The Republican Party Coalition: In the South, Black voters formed the backbone of the Republican Party, working with "carpetbaggers" (Northern migrants) and "scalawags" (Southern white Republicans) to secure positions.
• Military Protection: Federal troops stationed in the South protected Black voters from violent backlash by groups like the Ku Klux Klan during elections.
• Political Organization: Black leaders, many of whom were formerly enslaved, organized locally, particularly in states like South Carolina, Louisiana, and Mississippi.

Impact and Decline:

• Legislative Role: Black officials were instrumental in establishing public school systems in the South.
• Representative Examples: Notable figures included Hiram Revels (Mississippi), Robert Smalls (South Carolina), and Matthew Gaines (Texas).
• End of Reconstruction: After 1877, the withdrawal of federal troops allowed for the rise of Jim Crow laws, voter suppression, and violence, which effectively ended this period of political representation.

The power and influence of white supremacist groups, including those aligned with or succeeding the Ku Klux Klan (KKK), effectively increased in terms of political control in the South after the Compromise of 1877.

The Compromise of 1877 marked the end of Reconstruction, which involved the withdrawal of the last remaining federal troops from the South by President Rutherford B. Hayes. This created a power vacuum that allowed local white leaders to regain control.

Here is how this affected the situation:

• Removal of Protections: Federal troops had been protecting African Americans and Republican governments in the South. Once these troops were withdrawn, white supremacist groups were able to act without fear of federal intervention.
• Rise of "Redeemers": The period after Reconstruction saw the rise of "Redeemers"—white Southern Democrats who sought to regain control of state governments. Paramilitary groups like the White League and Red Shirts, which emerged from the same racist ideology as the KKK, used violence and intimidation to suppress Republican voting.
• Establishment of Jim Crow: The shift allowed for the establishment of Jim Crow laws, which stripped African Americans of their political, economic, and civil rights.

While the original incarnation of the KKK was largely suppressed by federal actions earlier in the 1870s (specifically the Enforcement Acts of 1870 and 1871), the terroristic methods and goals of the Klan were adopted by other organizations that thrived after the Compromise of 1877.

 

[IM2]

My grandparents were poor. My father and mother grew up poor. You want to dismiss the role the lack of a nuclear family has played because you can't blame anyone else for it. Until black communities fix that problem they can expect more of the same. No one is coming to save them.

I do dimiss it because white lead the nation annually in crime against family and children. So what good is it to have a so-called nuclear family when 1 or more of the parents is abusive?All you are doing is repeating the same tired white racist bromide about the black family. And none of it is supported by fact.

“In 1965, Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s report, The Negro Family: The Case for National Action, attributed racial inequality as well as poverty and crime in the black community to family structure, particularly the prevalence of families headed by single mothers. Not only did research at the time cast doubt on this causality, but evidence over the last the 50 years demonstrates that rates of child poverty, educational attainment, and crime do not track rates of single parenthood. Thus, even though the share of children living with a single mother rose for all racial and ethnic groups through the mid-1990s and has remained high since then, school completion and youth arrests for violent crimes have declined significantly, while poverty rates have fluctuated according to economic conditions.

Family structure does not drive racial inequity, and racial inequity persists regardless of family structure.”
-Amy Traub, Laura Sullivan, Tatjana Meschede and Thomas Shapiro, DEMOS, “The Asset Value of Whiteness: Understanding the Racial Wealth Gap.”

The Asset Value of Whiteness: Understanding the Racial Wealth Gap | Demos

No metric more powerfully captures the persistence and growth of economic inequality along racial and ethnic lines than the racial wealth gap.

www.demos.org

 

[IM2]

It did more than that. It ended free democracy in the south.

After the Civil War, during Reconstruction (1865–1877), Black men were elected to Southern state legislatures through the protection of the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments and the Reconstruction Acts of 1867, which mandated interracial voting. Supported by federal troops, the Republican Party, and coalitions with white "carpetbaggers" and "scalawags," over 600 African Americans served in state legislatures, pushing for public education and civil rights.

Key Factors in the Election of Black Legislators:

• Constitutional Amendments & Federal Acts: The 15th Amendment (1870) prohibited states from denying voting rights based on race. The Reconstruction Act of 1867 required Southern states to draft new constitutions allowing Black men to vote and hold office.
• The Republican Party Coalition: In the South, Black voters formed the backbone of the Republican Party, working with "carpetbaggers" (Northern migrants) and "scalawags" (Southern white Republicans) to secure positions.
• Military Protection: Federal troops stationed in the South protected Black voters from violent backlash by groups like the Ku Klux Klan during elections.
• Political Organization: Black leaders, many of whom were formerly enslaved, organized locally, particularly in states like South Carolina, Louisiana, and Mississippi.

Impact and Decline:

• Legislative Role: Black officials were instrumental in establishing public school systems in the South.
• Representative Examples: Notable figures included Hiram Revels (Mississippi), Robert Smalls (South Carolina), and Matthew Gaines (Texas).
• End of Reconstruction: After 1877, the withdrawal of federal troops allowed for the rise of Jim Crow laws, voter suppression, and violence, which effectively ended this period of political representation.

The power and influence of white supremacist groups, including those aligned with or succeeding the Ku Klux Klan (KKK), effectively increased in terms of political control in the South after the Compromise of 1877.

The Compromise of 1877 marked the end of Reconstruction, which involved the withdrawal of the last remaining federal troops from the South by President Rutherford B. Hayes. This created a power vacuum that allowed local white leaders to regain control.

Here is how this affected the situation:

• Removal of Protections: Federal troops had been protecting African Americans and Republican governments in the South. Once these troops were withdrawn, white supremacist groups were able to act without fear of federal intervention.
• Rise of "Redeemers": The period after Reconstruction saw the rise of "Redeemers"—white Southern Democrats who sought to regain control of state governments. Paramilitary groups like the White League and Red Shirts, which emerged from the same racist ideology as the KKK, used violence and intimidation to suppress Republican voting.
• Establishment of Jim Crow: The shift allowed for the establishment of Jim Crow laws, which stripped African Americans of their political, economic, and civil rights.

While the original incarnation of the KKK was largely suppressed by federal actions earlier in the 1870s (specifically the Enforcement Acts of 1870 and 1871), the terroristic methods and goals of the Klan were adopted by other organizations that thrived after the Compromise of 1877.

During the Civil War period, Radical Republicans had great power and were able to get initiatives passed providing blacks with civil rights. The pressure from Radical Republicans was responsible for creating the 14th Amendment and the implementation of the Reconstruction Acts over President Johnson’s veto. These two actions allowed protection to the newly freed blacks.

The influence of the Radical Republicans was gone once reconstruction ended, and the republican party began to turn away from issues affecting blacks. Southern white Republicans resented that the party had become the “black folks party” to use the kindest description, and felt that they needed to gain support from southern whites to become national. As blacks gained power and started winning elections, white resistance increased, and as a result, there was a backlash against southern black republicans called the lily-white movement.

“The lily-white movement was an all-white faction of the Republican Party in the Southern United States in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. It battled and usually defeated the biracial element called the Black-and-tan faction.

During Reconstruction, following the U.S. Civil War, black leaders in Texas and around the country gained increasing influence in the Republican Party by organizing blacks as an important voting bloc. Conservative whites attempted to eliminate this influence and recover white voters who had defected to the Democratic Party. The effort was largely successful in eliminating African-American influence in the Republican Party leading to black voters predominantly migrating to the Democratic Party for much of the 20th century.

The term lily-white movement was coined by Texas Republican leader Norris Wright Cuney, who used the term in an 1888 Republican convention to describe efforts by white conservatives to oust blacks from positions of Texas party leadership and incite riots to divide the party.[1] The term came to be used nationally to describe this ongoing movement as it further developed in the early 20th century, including through the administration of Herbert Hoover. Localized movements began immediately after the war but by the beginning of the 20th century the effort had become national. This movement is largely credited with driving blacks out of the Republican party during the early 20th century, setting the stage for their eventual support of the Democrats.”

Jeff Charles, Lily-White Movement: Why Black Americans Left The GOP, Liberty Nation News, April 02, 2021, https://www.libertynation.com/lily-white-movement-why-black-americans-left-the-gop/
Lily-white movement, https://www.americanhistoryusa.com/topic/lily white-movement/
Tsahai Tafari, The Rise and Fall of Jim Crow, https://www.thirteen.org/ wnet/jimcrow/print/p_struggle_president.html

 

[IM2]

Actiually both parties have an equal share in that. But white Republicans love to blame the Democrats.

History renders your disagreement moot.

 

[cnm]

No other institution in America played a greater role in perpetuating slavery, segregation, bigotry and racism than the Democratic Party. Pretending to be sympathetic now rings hollow.

Crackers Southern racists did it then as they do it now. Just because Crackers Southern racists are now MAGAts doesn't change anything. They still support Black/minority vote suppression.

 

[Robert W]

I do know history. The 1877 Compromise you talk about ended Reconstruction. That's what Republicans did. Modern Republicans need to stop lying about this because the Republicans of that time, specifically the Radical Repubicans, would be the liberals of today. The Dixiecrats were conservatives!

Blacks were decent and loyal Republicans until around 1940. They left to get things from Democrats. FDR did not actually favor blacks as their experiences in WW2 proved to blacks. They were in the military FDRs 3rd class citizens. still thanks to cash benefits, the women blacks kept wanting the free stuff and forced the black men to be democrats.

 

[Robert W]

Crackers Southern racists did it then as they do it now. Just because Crackers Southern racists are now MAGAts doesn't change anything. They still support Black/minority vote suppression.

You were not republicans, ever. Democrats are the same racists today as during the Civil war.

 

[alang1216]

Racism occurred, but it's not "a historical legacy of the US". There you go with your leftist hyperbole that I initially pointed out and you seemed to deny. I'm glad we got past your initial pretending and can address the truth.

I remain unconvinced and my original opinions are unchanged.

And I'd say Democrats aren't more sympathetic to the concerns of black Americans, they just want to give them candy bars (easy, free stuff) rather than encourage them to eat healthy (which isn't fun).

And access to education and jobs.

See how you distort the facts though? At the height of slavery, only 1.2% of white people owned slaves. That shows a correct representation of the overall "white community" being extremely minimal in slavery. Meanwhile, in your loaded language, you say "the majority of slave owners were white"... which is meant to suggest it was a gigantic issue in the white community.

It's 1.2% of the population we're talking about. That's the whole graph. You're chopping off the graph.

While exact numbers vary by year, at the peak of slavery in the U.S., roughly one-quarter to one-third of white Southern families owned slaves, with a total of around 3.5 to 4 million enslaved people held by about 380,000 slaveholding families (mostly white) by 1860, though many Black Americans also owned slaves, particularly in the Deep South, making it complex, but the vast majority of slaveholders were white.

Key Figures & Statistics:

• 1860 (Pre-Civil War):
  About 393,000 people owned slaves in the U.S., a significant drop from earlier decades.
• • ~380,000 Slaveholding Families:
    This figure from 1860 represents families, not individuals, and indicates the widespread nature of slaveholding, though concentrated in the South.
  • 1/4 of White Southerners:
    Approximately 25% of white families in the South owned slaves, with higher percentages in some areas.
  • Black Slaveholders:
    Hundreds of Black individuals, particularly in Louisiana and South Carolina, also owned slaves, though they were a very small minority.

In Summary:
Slavery was a deeply ingrained institution, primarily driven by white Southern wealth, with a substantial portion of the white population directly benefiting from slave ownership, alongside a smaller number of free Black slaveholders.
Note: Specific figures are estimates and can differ slightly between historical sources.

It's absolutely accepted on the left and I've never seen it rejected, even if it hasn't been officially proposed. The rhetoric is what matters.

You choose to hear what you wish to hear.

 

[alang1216]

Would you rather I include them all?

The extremes of either party should be ignored.

 

[alang1216]

Interesting. What exactly has this supposedly one sided sympathy accomplished? Blacks have disproportionately higher incidents of unwed mothers, single parent mothers, abortion, violent crimes and the list goes on.

There are also middle-class Black families living in my neighborhood. Something unheard of a generation or two ago.

Maybe the issue isn't lack of sympathy. Maybe the issue is that government solutions don't work because these are problems that only the black community itself can solve.

Maybe there is no magic bullet.

But I will tell you what your sympathy accomplishes... you get to feel better about yourself and think you are good person because you are sympathetic to their plight.

Yep. It is good to know I'm on the right side of history.