Aside from #2, I've never heard anyone dispute your numbers. Africans participated in the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade but didn't initiate it, that was Spain and Portugal.
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Zone1 Here's Why White Guilt About Slavery Is Insane
- Thread starter Mr. Friscus
- Start date
OODA_Loop
Account Terminated
What Do I Do with My White Guilt?
"Here I need to say the paradoxical opposite of what I said previously: You are alone. Your struggle with guilt will have much in common with that of others, and listening to their experiences will surely be of help. But there’s not a manual for guilt that we follow in 1-2-3 order. As with grief—which is quite often interwoven with guilt, and which I hear in your guilt—you have to find your way your way."
What Do I Do with My White Guilt?
More white people are waking up to the realities of racism and showing up as allies for racial justice. What do they do with the guilt they feel for not showing up sooner?
www.psychologytoday.com
MarathonMike
Diamond Member
All of them, just like I clearly stated. I actually posted much the same thread years ago. The OP is historically correct as was I. You have used the word EXPERIENCE which is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to the discussion of the HISTORY of slavery. You continue to dodge and deflect because you cannot refute the assertions.
Except it was not the HISTORY of slavery I was disputing but this from Mr. Friscus:
Modern woke pseudo-history paints a fabricated story of slavery; that white men came to Africa, stole Africans from their lands, and brought them to America. It was White American men, and only White American men, who were guilty of this, and it was a large majority of them as well. This was unique to the world at the time and in world history, and is a special evil in the history of mankind.
These are the assertions I considered to be a strawman and unsupported. If you support them, I await your evidence, not just YOUR assertion they are correct based on your EXPERIENCE.
Slavery began as a British institution. But unlike everywhere else, only in America did the British write a law which forbid the mixing of races.
During the 17th century, British colonies in North America increasingly codified laws defining enslaved people as property (chattel) and inheriting that status through the mother. Therefore, while the practice of being born into slavery is as old as slavery itself, the specific combination of racial, hereditary, and lifelong chattel slavery in America was highly distinct in its scope and application.
So blame the British.
If I were the OP I would have taken a different tack. Slavery began as a British institution. Then the British wrote laws that made it even worse. Then Democrats fought tooth and nail for almost 150 years to keep it and Republicans sold them out in 1877 to secure the presidency.
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Probably so. It might have turned out different if Democrats weren't such huge pieces of shit in the 19th century. Of course it didn't help that Republicans sold them out in 1877.What "white guilt"?
Don't get me started on Black Fatigue though 'cause it's real.
Federal troops were withdrawn from the South in 1877 primarily due to the Compromise of 1877, an informal deal settling the disputed 1876 presidential election. Republican Rutherford B. Hayes became president in exchange for removing the remaining federal troops from Southern statehouses, ending the Reconstruction era and allowing white supremacist rule to return.
Key Factors Behind the Withdrawal:
- The Compromise of 1877: To secure the presidency, Hayes agreed to cease federal interference in Southern affairs.
- End of Reconstruction: By 1877, Northerners were losing the will to maintain a costly military occupation in the South, and political, economic, and civil rights protection for Black citizens declined.
- Legal Constraints: The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 further restricted the use of federal troops for domestic law enforcement in states.
- Political Shift: Southern Democrats regained control of state governments in Louisiana, Florida, and South Carolina.
That's semantics. African elites are just as culpable as Europeans as their role was to provide the supply. It was a "partnership" with each side playing its role in the "slave chain."
Many African elites and coastal kingdoms participated by capturing and selling enemies to Europeans, as they possessed the ability to secure captives from the interior.
MarathonMike
Diamond Member
You are confused about this subject. I don't know if you are Black but since you keep leaning on EXPERIENCE when the discussion is ancient HISTORY of African slavery, I suspect you are. That would explain your denial of facts that are easily verifiable from multiple sources on African slavery. I won't waste time cutting and pasting links you can easily find with a few seconds of Google Search. You would most likely ignore them.
Aside from your subtext and that of "IM2", among many others here ???
Mr. Friscus
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You think there was zero slavery on earth before Britain??
More specifically Islamic, which continue to the present.
Slavery remains approved per Islamic dogma and scripture.
Mr. Friscus
Diamond Member
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Is that AI? Lol
Between 'google' and Wiki;
...
Slavery predates written records and has existed in many cultures. Slavery is rare among hunter-gatherer populations because it requires economic surpluses and a substantial population density. Thus, although it has existed among unusually resource-rich hunter gatherers, such as the American Indian peoples of the salmon-rich rivers of the Pacific Northwest coast, slavery became widespread only with the invention of agriculture during the Neolithic Revolution about 11,000 years ago. Slavery was practiced in almost every ancient civilization. Such institutions included debt bondage, punishment for crime, the enslavement of prisoners of war, child abandonment, and the enslavement of slaves' offspring.
...
As a social institution, chattel slavery classes slaves as chattels (personal property) owned by the enslaver; like livestock, they can be bought and sold at will. Chattel slavery was historically a widely accepted form of slavery in many parts of the world, and was practiced in places such as ancient Greece and the Roman Empire, where it was considered a keystone of society.Other examples include the institution of slavery in the Muslim world such as Medieval Egypt, as well as Sub-Saharan Africa, Brazil, the Antebellum United States, and parts of the Caribbean such as Cuba and Haiti. The Iroquois also enslaved others in ways that "looked very like chattel slavery."
...
Slavery was widespread in Africa, which pursued both internal and external slave trade. In the Senegambia region, between 1300 and 1900, close to one-third of the population was enslaved. In early Islamic states of the western Sahel, including Ghana, Mali, Segou, and Songhai, about a third of the population were enslaved.
In European courtly society, and European aristocracy, black African slaves and their children became visible in the late 1300s and 1400s. Starting with Frederick II, Holy Roman Emperor, black Africans were included in the retinue. In 1402 an Ethiopian embassy reached Venice. In the 1470s black Africans were painted as court attendants in wall paintings that were displayed in Mantua and Ferrara. In the 1490s black Africans were included on the emblem of the Duke of Milan.
During the trans-Saharan slave trade, slaves from West Africa were transported across the Sahara desert to North Africa to be sold to Mediterranean and Middle eastern civilizations. During the Red Sea slave trade, slaves were transported from Africa across the Red Sea to the Arabian Peninsula. The Indian Ocean slave trade, sometimes known as the east African slave trade, was multi-directional. Africans were sent as slaves to the Arabian Peninsula, to Indian Ocean islands (including Madagascar), to the Indian subcontinent, and later to the Americas. These traders captured Bantu peoples (Zanj) from the interior in present-day Kenya, Mozambique and Tanzania and brought them to the coast. There, the slaves gradually assimilated in rural areas, particularly on Unguja and Pemba islands.
...
The work of the Mercedarians was in ransoming Christian slaves held in North Africa (1637).
Corinthian black-figure terra-cotta votive tablet of slaves working in a mine, dated to the late seventh century BC
...
And several more 'pages' of text at;
en.wikipedia.org
Also, recent other threads here;
Remembering the Barbary Slaves: White Slaves and North African Pirates.
Fact: Three of the top five countries that CURRENTLY have significant slavery populations are in Africa.
...
Slavery predates written records and has existed in many cultures. Slavery is rare among hunter-gatherer populations because it requires economic surpluses and a substantial population density. Thus, although it has existed among unusually resource-rich hunter gatherers, such as the American Indian peoples of the salmon-rich rivers of the Pacific Northwest coast, slavery became widespread only with the invention of agriculture during the Neolithic Revolution about 11,000 years ago. Slavery was practiced in almost every ancient civilization. Such institutions included debt bondage, punishment for crime, the enslavement of prisoners of war, child abandonment, and the enslavement of slaves' offspring.
...
As a social institution, chattel slavery classes slaves as chattels (personal property) owned by the enslaver; like livestock, they can be bought and sold at will. Chattel slavery was historically a widely accepted form of slavery in many parts of the world, and was practiced in places such as ancient Greece and the Roman Empire, where it was considered a keystone of society.Other examples include the institution of slavery in the Muslim world such as Medieval Egypt, as well as Sub-Saharan Africa, Brazil, the Antebellum United States, and parts of the Caribbean such as Cuba and Haiti. The Iroquois also enslaved others in ways that "looked very like chattel slavery."
...
Slavery was widespread in Africa, which pursued both internal and external slave trade. In the Senegambia region, between 1300 and 1900, close to one-third of the population was enslaved. In early Islamic states of the western Sahel, including Ghana, Mali, Segou, and Songhai, about a third of the population were enslaved.
In European courtly society, and European aristocracy, black African slaves and their children became visible in the late 1300s and 1400s. Starting with Frederick II, Holy Roman Emperor, black Africans were included in the retinue. In 1402 an Ethiopian embassy reached Venice. In the 1470s black Africans were painted as court attendants in wall paintings that were displayed in Mantua and Ferrara. In the 1490s black Africans were included on the emblem of the Duke of Milan.
During the trans-Saharan slave trade, slaves from West Africa were transported across the Sahara desert to North Africa to be sold to Mediterranean and Middle eastern civilizations. During the Red Sea slave trade, slaves were transported from Africa across the Red Sea to the Arabian Peninsula. The Indian Ocean slave trade, sometimes known as the east African slave trade, was multi-directional. Africans were sent as slaves to the Arabian Peninsula, to Indian Ocean islands (including Madagascar), to the Indian subcontinent, and later to the Americas. These traders captured Bantu peoples (Zanj) from the interior in present-day Kenya, Mozambique and Tanzania and brought them to the coast. There, the slaves gradually assimilated in rural areas, particularly on Unguja and Pemba islands.
...
The work of the Mercedarians was in ransoming Christian slaves held in North Africa (1637).
Corinthian black-figure terra-cotta votive tablet of slaves working in a mine, dated to the late seventh century BC...
And several more 'pages' of text at;
Slavery - Wikipedia
Also, recent other threads here;
Remembering the Barbary Slaves: White Slaves and North African Pirates.
Fact: Three of the top five countries that CURRENTLY have significant slavery populations are in Africa.
Alas this is a Zone 1 thread so I'm unable to accurately assess your reading comprehension level.
No. I didn't say that. Do you believe slavery in America was different than their contemporaries? Because that's what we should be blaming Great Britain for. The key being the laws that were passed to prevent the mixing of races.
Slavery in the United States was distinctive due to its explicitly race-based, hereditary nature, resulting in permanent, multi-generational chattel slavery (status passed from mother to child). Unlike other systems, the U.S. enslaved population grew rapidly through natural reproduction rather than relying solely on slave trade imports.
Key differences in American slavery compared to other regions (such as Africa, the Caribbean, or Latin America) during the 17th–19th centuries included:
- Race-Based and Hereditary: It was entirely racialized, where African ancestry became a legal requirement for enslavement, creating a rigid social hierarchy.
- Permanent Chattel Property: Enslaved people were considered legally defined items of property, lacking basic human rights, often for life.
- Natural Reproduction: By the 1730s, the U.S. slave population was able to reproduce itself, with the population rising from roughly 300,000–400,000 imports to 3.5 million by 1860. This contrasted with high death rates in the Caribbean and Brazil, which required constant importing.
- Plantation System Intensity: It was highly labor-intensive, driven by large-scale agricultural exploitation.
- Legal Protections: Unlike some African or Roman systems where slaves might have rights, join the captor's family, or eventually attain freedom, American slavery was designed to be absolute and inescapable, justified by a distinct white supremacy ideology.
Is it wrong? I knew about this decades ago. Is this the first time you are hearing about it?
Mr. Friscus
Diamond Member
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- #38
AI is notorious for completely butchering history and even simple facts. I don’t really view it as any sort of authority.
Zincwarrior
Diamond Member
Then who gives a shit?
Great. Then correct it for me. I don't think you can because The Hayes compromise was the downfall of democracy in the south.
After the Civil War, during Reconstruction (1865–1877), Black men were elected to Southern state legislatures through the protection of the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments and the Reconstruction Acts of 1867, which mandated interracial voting. Supported by federal troops, the Republican Party, and coalitions with white "carpetbaggers" and "scalawags," over 600 African Americans served in state legislatures, pushing for public education and civil rights.
Key Factors in the Election of Black Legislators:
- Constitutional Amendments & Federal Acts: The 15th Amendment (1870) prohibited states from denying voting rights based on race. The Reconstruction Act of 1867 required Southern states to draft new constitutions allowing Black men to vote and hold office.
- The Republican Party Coalition: In the South, Black voters formed the backbone of the Republican Party, working with "carpetbaggers" (Northern migrants) and "scalawags" (Southern white Republicans) to secure positions.
- Military Protection: Federal troops stationed in the South protected Black voters from violent backlash by groups like the Ku Klux Klan during elections.
- Political Organization: Black leaders, many of whom were formerly enslaved, organized locally, particularly in states like South Carolina, Louisiana, and Mississippi.
- Legislative Role: Black officials were instrumental in establishing public school systems in the South.
- Representative Examples: Notable figures included Hiram Revels (Mississippi), Robert Smalls (South Carolina), and Matthew Gaines (Texas).
- End of Reconstruction: After 1877, the withdrawal of federal troops allowed for the rise of Jim Crow laws, voter suppression, and violence, which effectively ended this period of political representation.
The power and influence of white supremacist groups, including those aligned with or succeeding the Ku Klux Klan (KKK), effectively increased in terms of political control in the South after the Compromise of 1877.
The Compromise of 1877 marked the end of Reconstruction, which involved the withdrawal of the last remaining federal troops from the South by President Rutherford B. Hayes. This created a power vacuum that allowed local white leaders to regain control.
Here is how this affected the situation:
- Removal of Protections: Federal troops had been protecting African Americans and Republican governments in the South. Once these troops were withdrawn, white supremacist groups were able to act without fear of federal intervention.
- Rise of "Redeemers": The period after Reconstruction saw the rise of "Redeemers"—white Southern Democrats who sought to regain control of state governments. Paramilitary groups like the White League and Red Shirts, which emerged from the same racist ideology as the KKK, used violence and intimidation to suppress Republican voting.
- Establishment of Jim Crow: The shift allowed for the establishment of Jim Crow laws, which stripped African Americans of their political, economic, and civil rights.
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